For years the big, subsidized U.S. airlines Delta, American and United were calling for protectionism from Emirates as well as Qatar and Etihad. They didn’t want these Mideast airlines flying to the U.S., or at least expanding their service. They tried with the Obama administration and then the Trump administration to get the U.S. to abrogate treaty obligations, raise airfares and reduce choices.
Their argument was that these airlines were subsidized and offered such an attractive product that they couldn’t compete. This was always weird, especially for Emirates, whose business class has long been decidedly mid – in fact, worse than what’s offered by the big U.S. carriers.
The mainstay of the Emirates fleet is the Boeing 777, and business class for years wasn’t even fully flat let alone offering direct aisle access.
Emirates gets a lot of press for its first class suites (though they’re quite small and no longer industry-leading, except on a handful of new 777s). The Airbus A380 showers and bar are impressive. They advertised those extensively and extended a brand halo over the rest of an otherwise-inferior product. Emirates was one of the first carriers to squeeze in 10-abreast seating on its Boeing 777s.
Now the airline has revealed its new Boeing 777 interior, which just launched into service, and the new Emirates business class is disappointing.
- Boeing 777s are getting a new business class, and adding premium economy
- The first plane (registration A6-EQH) took a month and is already flying. Each subsequent plane will take two weeks.
- Flights EK83 and EK84 to Geneva launched with the new cabin today. EK312 and EK313 to and from Tokyo Haneda get the new cabin September 1. Then EK183 and EK184 to and from Brussels will get the cabin September 11. They’re retrofitting newer 777s that have the airline’s new first class first..
Credit: Emirates
Credit: Emirates
Credit: Emirates
New Emirates business class is very similar to old Airbus A380 business class. It is fine with lie flat seats and direct aisle access, but it isn’t an especially spacious seat and isn’t a suite with doors.
According to Emirates President Tim Clark this is somehow “raising the industry benchmark” for premium travel.
Emirates continues to carry out our commitment to deliver an unmatchable onboard experience with the introduction of our latest Boeing 777 with new signature interiors, raising the industry benchmark when it comes to premium travel. Our latest Business Class cabin offers customers a sense of exclusivity and privacy, complemented by our best-in-class suite of onboard products. The addition of our popular Premium Economy cabin, rated one of the best in the industry, injects modern sophistication to the flying experience and is carefully designed for more comfort. With more Boeing 777s and A380s refreshed to sport our latest generation onboard products, customers can consistently have the very best experiences in the sky across both aircraft types.
There’s no question this new business class is better than what Emirates has offered on Boeing 777s before – but that’s just because their product already lagged so badly. It will still lag those Delta aircraft featuring suites, and American Airlines new Boeing 787-9s and reconfigured Boeing 777-300ERs when those get suites as well.
Credit: American Airlines
The new Emirates business should be competitive with its partner United’s current Polaris seat. Even United, though, is considering its next generation of Polaris which could include suites.
You’re clearly talking about the hard product because even economy class on Emirates is better than any class in the American Airlines when it comes to the soft product . I just flew American Airlines Phi to Doha in business class and even the flight attendant said “I’m going to try my extra extra best to compare to Emirates” she had asked if I had flown business class before with them and I said no but I have flown Emirates first and business class on the A380 and 777 several times.
Maybe there not a highly flown airline company like delta & others once were
But at the end of the day, the Emirates soft product from food and drinks to the quality of service is what gives Emirates the HUGE edge.
Wow, airlines better not hit a nerve with Gary. Otherwise they’ll always be in the intro to any article about them on a particular topic. E.g.,: any article about a US3 airline and an ME3 airline in the same breath will always go back to the subsidies argument from years ago, or any article about AA’s hard product will have that picture with the broken seat.
I would choose Emirates over any of the US3 every day and twice on Sunday. What good is any hard product when it’s filthy, broken and accompanied by terrible food and abysmal service?
Gary is right.
Not only is the EK hard product inferior to the Delta One Suite but most other airlines that have added new generation aircraft seats.
EK has long had a halo because of the A380 and it will be much harder for them to maintain that as other hubs compete with DXB but also as other airlines offer the same aircraft types as EK; the A380 failed commercially because it was customized for the ME carriers. While the 777X is still heavily purchased by ME carriers, it is not as different from other aircraft as the A380 was to other aircraft other than the 747-8 which also failed commercially.
As for the subsidy argument, DL led the US industry in arguing against subsidies esp. from the ExIm bank when the US airline industry was hitting on all cylinders in the 2010s. Of course, in crises, airlines are subsidized by their governments and that was true around the world.
My only experience with Emirates was a 3 hour trans-Tasman daytime flight in an 85% empty top half of a 380. I agree with the praise of the soft product, though its hard to judge FAs when the ratios are that off. The hard product was meh in current design and in great condition.
@ Gary — Emirates J is still vastly superior to Delta’s garbage 767-300s.
@Gene – these seats absolutely. Angled seats without direct aisle access I don’t agree
@Tim Dunn “DL led the US industry in arguing against subsidies esp. from the ExIm bank when the US airline industry was hitting on all cylinders in the 2010s. ” Delta was right on this, though as in all cases they argue for what benefits Delta. They are pro-subsidy when it inures to their benefit. (Subsidies for me, but not for thee)
Emirates offers a far superior (if tacky) soft and hard product than anything you will experience on a US airline.
Not having old female flight attendants who are bitter and gay male flight attendants with attitude still makes Emirates better.
Tim Dunn,
Nonsense. Just look at the Delta One product on a 767-300ER or the A330-300? The seats are awful and dated, and the on board service middling at best on Delta.
A great many non US global carriers exceed their US counterparts on just about everything.
You clearly can’t read.
Gary specifically noted the Delta One Suite on the A330-900 and the A350s.
No one has argued that the 767-300ER Delta One product is not comparable but you also can’t accept that virtually no other global airline except for United has tried to put the same type of business class seat on all of its widebodies.
Nearly all global airlines including EK manage to use its aircraft type where it makes sense to do so; the DL 767-300ER is heavily geared to US transcon flights -where it competes with narrowbodies – and to heavily leisure transatlantic destinations as well as to Latin America on flights that are often less than 8 hours.
And let’s also not forget that UA’s 757s which are extensively used to Europe do not have Polaris on them.
And the A330CEOs have a comparable seat to tens of thousands of other business class products on scores of airlines. It is competitive with the product on many airlines.
@ Gary — I do not disagree re: slanted seats. Meanwhile, Tim Dunn stomps feet about how great Deltas 4 aircraft with “Suites” are. What kind of swill was it that Delta serves, again?
Everyone is saying the same thing. “Emirates is far superior to the US-3”. I don’t know what the author’s intention was but it sure has whipped people into a frenzy!
Emirates is by far superior to Delta in every way. Even DL knows this, that’s why they don’t want Emirates to fly to the most busy airport in the world (Atlanta). I will fly to any city in US to catch an Emirates international flight.
Food and service is such better. And Emirates won’t leave you stranded for 5 days because they are under staffed.
DL is good for domestic flights but no US airlines can compete with international carriers ( Singapore, Qatar, British, Emirates and Ethiods, et ).
Gene,
only a troll could misrepresent as much as you do.
Delta has 52 A330NEOs and A350s that have Delta One Suites in their fleet right now.
American and United have precisely ZERO widebodies EACH that have Suites with doors. And that is the real issue – you can’t accept that Delta has a superior product on ANY PART of its fleet – and Gary accurately made the comparison between EK and the big 3.
Unlike AA and UA, DL actually have scores of aircraft in service with Suite products.
How bad could the retrofits be? r/n Emirates offers a far superior product than any US airline – especially the soft product. But even the hard product is better than any US airline offering.
@ Tim ,– Only your buttons are pushed so easily.
Emirates execs are lying liars who don’t deserve all the props they get. For years they claimed to have horizontal lie flat biz class to SFO when in fact it was the horrible angled product. They promised limos on both sides of the flight but the limos never showed up.
On the plus side they upgraded me on a 1 hour flight and kept refilling my glass with Dom. But that’s not enough to overcome the lies.
Tim — And, I’m a troll? Pot. Kettle. Although I believe you are the kettle flyer.
The soft products big US 3 carriers combined cannot compete with the soft products offered by one of the big Middle East carriers. It’s like comparing raisins to watermelons.
Gene,
you lied… quit worrying about other people.
YOU are the one that had to jump in with a comment about Delta’s 767s and threw in the A330 even while flat out lying about the number of Delta aircraft that have Suites with doors.
nobody is arguing about soft product – including Gary which made a hard product comparison
Other people are commenting on how poor EK’s decision is to install a product that is not industry-leading even now, let alone a decade from now when those 777s will be retired.
@ Tim — Please show me where I “threw in the A330”?
this comment was from Larry
“Just look at the Delta One product on a 767-300ER or the A330-300? The seats are awful and dated, and the on board service middling at best on Delta.”
and then you jumped in with your comment about 4 DL aircraft w/ suites.
None of which changes that AA and UA have ZERO aircraft with business class suites and apparently so will EK on their newly refurbished 777s.
My view. Diamond with DL and Gold with EK.
I’ve been flying both for years. Recently came back from Europe D1/767. Newer hard product and not very comfortable trying to sit or sleep. Overhead lighting was pointed at the row behind me. (Regular light issue on Delta regardless of seat).
The hard product was ok, but nothing great. Soft product was crappy. Lousy meal, ran out of cokes and service was not much different than coach.
Qatar. Q suites are nice, but the footwell is narrow and sleeping can be an issue. The mattresses on EK and QR really make a difference. I had to use the blanket on Delta between me and the leather seat to allow some cooling.
Meals and Cabin service on either EK, QR and others are far superior to DL.
ME and Asia, my picks are EK first because of their no cost stopover policy. QR is second and the DOHA lounges beat EK. Several years ago, EK started lots of cost cutting and it shows up in the lounges and some onboard experiences.
The New 777 seat, (yes I’ve sat in it) is not a game changer and we fly and connect willing to use the 380 (exception is JFK which I avoid at all cost)
I have several DL trips to Europe on the schedule. Most are C+ seats. Delta’s fares for PE and D1 aren’t justified by the product.
Subsidies. Once the US carriers saw the subsidized military/government contracts for ME routes start disappearing, they pulled out and protested subsidizing airlines.
Everyone has their own opinion and this is just mine.
Doug,
and I would agree w/ your assessment.
US airlines are almost never top tier when compared to global airlines.
But keep in mind US airlines pay the highest labor costs in the world. If they didn’t have unions and strict work laws, the chances are they could spend more on onboard service.
And DL, as Gary has often noted, is at least marginally better than AA and UA.
The US is still the world’s largest market not just for air travel but for practically all products and services; laws are not going to change to open the US domestic market to foreign competition because the labor vote is simply too valuable.
and the point, once again, is that any airline can buy industry available seats and compete on hard product even if the soft product greatly varies. EK just chose not to install even a best-in-class product for its 777s while other airlines do have newer and more innovative products.
Sorry Gary
You were half asleep when this article was written.
Just flew EMIRATES First Class on the 777 — amazing product and even better service. I regularly fly the A380 in Business Class. The overall experience is a far leap above the American carriers. Onboard bar and lounge, shower, pyjamas (first only), most planes have Wifi, huge dining menus and (shocking this one) tasty food.
American / Delta / United more or less have the same tired experience they’ve skated by on for years: a glass of bubbly or juice on arrival, warm nuts soon after take off, two bland meals etc.
I will conceed: Delta is a smidge better — and recent experiences (Delta One over, Virgin Upper Class back), luggage lost on both legs — reveal chaotic / inept customer service experiences across the board. And United just needs to be sold, the proceeds put into a savings account & every just sent home to live off the interest. (I wince painfully at a recent trip on UA — Newark to Hong Kong via Tokyko Haneda in Polaris Class — and the check-in agent CLIMBED UP ON THE COUNTER and started screaming “….. All you in this line, if you got extra luggage, you gots ta pay. If you got extra luggage, get ya wallet out – yas got to pay”)
Sometimes EMIRATES and QATAR faltar. Not often. The same cannot be said of the US legacy carriers
Indulge me for a few moments and I will share a recent exeprience on EMIRATES. I was flying in First from Africa, extended a few times, forgot that I supposed to fly back one afternoon and hours before the departure called my secretary to make a change. The area where I was had bad cellphone reception so she couldn’t reach me. The EMIRATES response? They had one agent stay on the line with my secretary while she tried to call me repeatedly AND another agent rang tried to ring me. The second agent did reached me, and issues with my credit card. “Secuirity” nonsense. The airlines rang back 3 times between calls to the bank before they reached me. Now, I was told the 777 First product is better than the A380 one, and the A380 business class product is much better than the 777s. On top of that I am fussy about take off times and the length of layovers. So I was really worried that I would choose a bad connection. So, I had a fair amount of trepidation when the agent finally rang through to book onward travel.
What happened next, shocked me.
After exchanging pleasantries, the agent said “….. we notice that you seem to prefer either very short layovers or much longer ones, have reserved a number of seats for you on our inventory so that you can pick and choose….. we have provisionally reserved seats on FOUR DIFFERENT AIRCRAFT: a) business class on A380 leaving around 4pm, b) business class on the same aircraft leaving around 8pm, c) the last seat in First on this evenings 777 service, d) business class on the 777 service and e) first on the same 777 flight (both i think leaving early the next day)”
She then added “based on your travel history, I imagine that you’ll prefer the 777 in first and a window seat away from the galley: it leaves late, has a 4 hour connection, you can eat and freshen up and be in Europe for dinner — and i have already reserved a seat for”:
She was correct — that would have been the itinerary that I would have chosen.
Here’s the rub: I have flown on EMIRATES about 24 times in my life (to Rome, New York, Mauritius, London, Amsterdam and Johannesburg) am hardly elite clientelle or hardly someone with an extensive data history to mine from.
Most of my adult life I have been AMERICAN Executive Platinum and BRITISH AIRWAYS Avios Gold. Other than an upgrade here or there or a slightly (!) nicer cabin has it made a world of difference? Heck no.
So, no Gary you can keep your “suites” with peer-over, child-high doors, desultory services, mostly “wooden” cabin crew and the formulaic cabin experience. If I have a choice, Middle Eastern carriers (EK, QR, EY) all the way. ,
@Tim
if you were to step out of the basement and try flying Etihad, Emirates or Qatar instead of acclaiming Delta as geniuses for their striking a deal with Riyadh Air, you might see how inferior Delta’s product is to that of those 3 airlines.
BTW, last year, I flew Etihad FC (not the 380) to Dulles and then took Delta’s short haul domestic ‘first class’ out. Etihad is several orders of magnitude better.
Emirates first class really has nothing to do with this – as I say, people seem to think Emirates is better because of that first class experience, bringing that into the discussion sort of proves my point.
And telling me how great it is to fly business on the A380 with the Emirates bar also misses the point since these 777s, the mainstay currently of the Emirates fleet, doesn’t have this at all. What’s new here is Emirates announcing a ‘new’ business class seat that’s been in service for over a decade on their A380. It isn’t close to industry-leading at all.
@Doug
‘QR is second and the DOHA lounges beat EK.’
I was in Dubai last month and the FC lounge was undergoing renovation. Perhaps it’ll be better after the renovation, but right now, it’s underwhelming. Even Doha’s biz class lounge is better.
Jon,
if you aren’t capable of understanding that a domestic US flight is not even intended to be in the same league as ANY international flight – let alone FC which no US carrier even intends to offer any more – then you really are the one that needs to head to the basement.
Gary is right. He got a lot of people wound up as they threw in all kinds of lame points which don’t counter his accurate assessment.
And every one of the ME3 including EK would love to have access to the US domestic market but they will never get it as long as the blue team sucks up to labor
Emirates was recently voted the world’s third best airline. It deserves the accolade and with the new Business Class product being installed on the Boeing 777s likely to enhance their image as being one of the world’s best airlines.
You really don’t get it, uh? What an idiotic post. As if the seat was the most important thing when you fly. Yeah, it has to be adequate, but boy does a flight on Emirates beats Delta or United any time.
Womp womp.
As emirates retrofits these new”business class seats on 777s, are they going to finally put in the new first class product as well?
Airlines in the US are jokes, especially when we compare them with Emirates. Contemporary designs are good, but soft services are critical for your hours on the planes.
@Tim
My Etihad flight (biz from South Asia to AUH, then first class to Dulles) cost me only twice as much in Aeroplan miles as delta did for the 1 hr ‘first class’ flight from Dulles to NYC in Skypesos.
Since you’ve mentioned before that Delta’s Skypesos and its 450K biz class rewards are great for passengers, it’s perfectly reasonable to compare 2 flights with redemptions that aren’t too far apart!
Greg,
I have long enjoyed your column — and sorry mate-o, on this one you are “out to lunch”
EMIRATES
+ 777 experience? Food service? Excellent? In cabin service? Excellent.
+ A380 experience? Complimentary selection of beverages at the seat, good at-seat storage, a great lounge, great selection at the lounge bar etc
+ Across all premium inventory, world-class entertainment system, fantastic on the ground Dubai (HUGE lounge, restaurant syle at-table meal service, a wealth of dinning options, embarrassingly varied wine lists etc). Planes: pristine levels of cleanliness and rarely demonstrate wear-&-tear etc. Ground personnel (generally warm, helpful, emotionally intelligent and effusive). Many tickets feature complimentary chauffer service to / from the airport. Most flights — on average — have crew that speak between 8 – 14 differnet languages.
+ Downsides: no cabin doors in business. And sub-par EMIRATES 777 business class. Narrower seats than A380 Emirates business class seat…. 2 2 2 configuration means half the cabin has to climb over recumbant passengers and (I believe) narrower seats than A380*
* one should note that EK generally confines 777 inventory to “connector” flights Milan / Nairobi / Mumbai to Dubai in the middle of the afternoon (time when most are awake, watching television reading etc)
AMERICAN / UNITED (two I am more familiar with)
+ Planes: some newer aircraft, some premium cabins have doors. O-kay
+ Downsides: More inventory is older. Questionable design choices (like “densified cabins” with rat-box (mean little narrow) toilets etc. Variable maintainence / service levels. (I have lost count how many times I have been on international business or international first and found crumbs around the seat, miscellaneous stains on tray tables, rubbish in seat pockets / storage bins etc). Variable cabin service experience (too many robotic / surly flight attendants), limited choice menus, dearth of wine options. Cabin “service” amounts to juice or bubbly before take off, maybe warm nuts, two meals, a refreshment on drinks and, on some airlines, a pantry with sandwiches, chips, chocolate and that type of flim flam. On the ground experience? Reasonable. Lounges? Miserly. Often crammed, limited beverage choices, disgraceful food offerings (vegetable crudite, cheese, soup, pretzels, and crackers type business!). No chauffer etc. Lucky to find anyone that speaks English and maybe Spanish
SUMMARY
+ newer planes, great soft products, great on the ground amenities, multi-lingual staff, excellent in-flight entertainment, clean aircraft interiors, warm and responsive flight attention — but no cabin doors & usually have to connect via Middle East hub
+ more flexible hub & spoke itineraries, older planes, spotty maintainence record, surly staff, robotic cabin experience, uninspired dining options, lack lustre lounge options, piss-poor lounge food & beverage offers (for the most part), rarely mutlilingual staff — but some planes have doors in premium cabins(!)
The choice for most seems fairly clear.
This is mediocre, but at least acceptable. Basically like ANA’s last generation J seat, which was market leading at the time, but is now just meh. I would fly this if it was the best routing/price, but I wouldn’t fly current EK 777 J unless I had no other choices.