Passengers bring their own life experiences and (emotional) baggage with them to the airport. So do flight attendants. We also have different cultural expectations and behaviors. And then we’re trapped inside a metal tube together for several hours. Sometimes that goes very badly, and we all need a bit more patience and understanding.
Tatiana Zambrano was flying from New York JFK to Cali, Colombia on Wednesday on board American Airlines fight AA2161. She says a flight attendant told her to hang up her phone call. She was “talking to a relative in [her] original country.” Her aunt had died that day and she was traveling to be with family and for the funeral. The flight attendant told her that by continuing to talk she was breaking federal law, she says. And that’s correct.
She didn’t get off the phone right away. She was understandably shaken, and she didn’t comply. And that’s when things went sideways. As she explains,
He comes back a second time and roughly touches my shoulder and tells me that I am breaking a federal law. And I demand respect from him and he starts yelling at me that he didn’t want to talk to me and I told the captain to disrespect the laws and they took me off the plane and there are no more flights..to Colombia and I feel physically and verbally attacked and with the pain of my dead relative.
#BreakingNews #DoNotComply #aviation #9News #univison @AmericanAir @AmericanAir @CNBC @CNN @UnivisionNews @Telemundo @itsALLrisky @topsathletic @elonmusk @DogeCoinArmy1 @shibaa_token @unitedaviation1 @aa pic.twitter.com/BXeJDXVl2T
— Tatiana Zambrano (@tita23tita) October 28, 2021
Please. I fell so much pain my family members died today and I was insulted from one flight atendant from flight 2161 at @JFKairport . Now I don't have any flights to Colombia. Also I was fisical abuse 😭😭😭😭😭😭
— Tatiana Zambrano (@tita23tita) October 28, 2021
Several things are going on here,
- It is absolutely the rule that passengers have to stop talking on their cell phones before the plane takes off. That’s not just a flight attendant request or airline policy, it’s a federal requirement.
- One passenger shouldn’t be able to delay a flight for everyone, although resolving the situation peacefully rather than delaying a flight to remove a passenger means less of a delay for everyone.
- If airline crew believe a passenger is going to cause problems in the air, creating a safety hazard or diversion risk, it’s still better to deal with that on the ground.
- And misunderstandings and misjudgments abound.
So what do you do? American Airlines says their purpose is “Caring For People On Life’s Journey.” I don’t think that happened here. It would have been better to take a moment to understand what was happening with this passenger. Knowing she’d just lost a family member, she wasn’t in the best position to quickly process the rule to get off the phone and being told more gently to do it might have helped. Letting her know that she needed to do it in order to make the trip to the funeral might have helped.
Frequently when a flight attendant knocks me with a galley cart, or otherwise bumps into me, they’ll touch my shoulder and apologize. I always find it odd when someone touches me while apologizing for touching me. Tapping the woman for her attention, to emphasize the point, probably wasn’t a good idea here either.
There’s no disputing the woman was in the wrong for continuing to talk on the phone as her flight prepared to depart, and she was told to end the call. But a little compassion and understanding from where she was coming from seems to have been in order.
The flight to Colombia took off 24 minutes late, and arrived in Cali 35 minutes early – without Tatiana Zambrano having a way to make it to her family yesterday.
AA flight attendants and gate agents love to escalate rather than elevate.
Exactly what was discussed yesterday on this forum about why AA so many “incidents “. Their F/A’s are too aggressive, rude and simply care less about passengers. The woman was wrong and breaking the rules but clearly there was a better way to handle this.
One of the last flights I took on AA the lead F/A literally said that they were there for our safety and not our comfort. Everyone around me was looking around like did we just hear that?? Today I will pay more and absorb a connection rather than fly AA.
“And I demand respect from him”
Yea, no baggage here.
If she followed instructions? She’d be in Cali to mourn properly which clearly needs to happen for her. Amazing how stupid people are anymore. You give up a lot of personal freedom when we fly and its for your safety and safety of others. If your self centred, obnoxious or addicted to alcohol and drugs? Stay home.
She is emotionally torn up about her abuse, but her tweet includes @elonmusk, dogecoin, and #doNotComply?
Yea, I can tell she’s heartbroken.
There could have been language and cultural issues at work here too. The flight attendant might not have understood the gravity of the call, especially since it was likely in Spanish. And it would be hard for anyone to hang up in such a serious discussion and Latin American families tend to be particularly close. None of this is an excuse–the call should have been ended (perhaps started if possible) earlier, but clearly things rapidly spun out of control. Very unfortunate all around.
This tells me all I need to know the passenger was in the wrong
“He comes back a second time and roughly touches my shoulder and tells me that I am breaking a federal law. And I demand respect from him”
For the FA to come back a second time, that means more than enough has elapsed for the passenger to say, goodbye I have to hang up now. “I demand respect from him” is dripping with confrontational energy from the passenger.
I can tell she’s incredibly broken up. When I’m at my lowest, I often tweet anti-mask hashtags and tag cryptocurrencies
#BreakingNews #DoNotComply @elonmusk @DogeCoinArmy1 @shibaa_token
A decade ago I made the decision to avoid AA as much as possible while sitting in a terminal early, waiting for my flight. The previous flight had just loaded and I saw a passenger running to the gate, late for what I learned was their connection. The gate agent had just closed the door (maybe one minute earlier) and told the passenger they missed their flight. THAT didn’t really bother me – life sucks sometimes. But what disgusted me was the GLEE in the gate agents voice and affect as they did this. They smiled, even chuckled a little bit. I can still picture the agent, bouncing their head back and forth with a smile and joyful tone saying “you’re just out of luck !” To be clear, the passenger wasn’t angry. They pleaded, but they weren’t angry. And the gate agent smiled and laughed.
I feel so badly for all flight attendants right now. I’m sure everyone on the plane has some issue to warrant being on the phone. Damn, bitch hang up! You can deal with the issues before and after you land.
I’m so sick of people thinking rules don’t apply to them.
I think based only on what’s presented here (and recognizing that there maybe information that’s pertinent but unknown to me) I have to agree that from a technical basis she was in the wrong.. and I suspect that CFR 91.21 will support AAs initial position.
That said, i think like many aspects of life, it has to be seen through the situation as well. This does NOT give a free-pass to rules violators.. and IF it was in fact CFR 91.21 that was the triggering issue- then i think it’s ALSO fair to point out that the violation was NOT of an AA rule/policy, but if federal LAW… and one that, based on my cursory reading, doesn’t grant AA the discretionary authority to waive compliance… HAD it been an AA policy/rule, THEN i think a stronger argument can be made for some flexibility, discretion etc… but if it was law- and unless the law grants such- AA doesn’t have the legal authority not to insist on compliance – regardless of the prevailing situation.
Now .. all that said.. there are aspects I find troubling… I myself believe firmly in a “no-touching” policy unless purely accidental/unintentional or due to emergency-like conditions.. so i’m a bit bothered by the allegation of touching … i also agree that TONE here too is a key.. yes- AA i believe was in the right… but that doesn’t also say that perhaps a less confrontational, less adversarial tact might not have gained compliance but also been more customer aware.
I know it’s just my own experiences, I only fly 20-30x a year, but I’ve never had any problems with AA FAs. Some may not be overly friendly but I’ve never had a bad experience. Quite the opposite during CoVid. I’ve watched a few remain remarkably in control dealing with irate/rude/noncompliant passengers. Fly United once and AA FAs feels like Emirates.
Also- Thinking there’s probably another, more accurate side to this story. From, I didn’t shut my phone off when told to, I demand respect to…. I was physically abused…. Seems like she’s trying to overdo it to gain public sympathy….
And I always tweet Elon Musk when I have flight issues.
When these fascist entitled flight attendants aggressively touch a passenger, whether over a phone call or a mask or whatever power trip they are on, the passengers need to press charges EVERY SINGLE TIME. That’s the only way air servers will once again learn their place. Seeing headlines about assaults on the mask police makes me smile. They have it coming.
This could have been an Onion headline:
“Woman, who refuses to hang up phone, surprised when she is kicked off flight”
“I honestly thought the rules didn’t apply to me.” She tweeted. “The flight attendant asked me to hang up multiple times, but I was not done with my conversation. Who put them in charge?”
Hang up! Do then and do it quickly. The attendant did not need to come back a SECOND time to tell you if you had complied on the FIRST request. “Rules don’t apply to me, as I am special, I am in mourning, I can talk as long as I want! Don’t disrespect me because I don’t follow the rules!”
I see this kind of behavior EVERY day, in all places, in all situations. Me, Me, Me!
Michael, good points. But touching someone’s shoulder can be a sympathetic gesture. And frankly, who cares if the FA was rude? As a person who (almost) always follows rules, if I break one and they’re rude, does it make me any closer to being right?
We are in a society that’s become more about the perceived tone of voice. Why didn’t the passenger say in her whiniest voice, “she was MEAN to me!” much like a 5 year old.
A recent example of when I broke a rule on the flight was when I didn’t check to see the seat belt sign was off. We had not been going thru any turbulence, but the sign was still on. I had been holding it in for awhile, got up to go and the FA said, curtly, “the seat belt sign is on, mam!” She said, when I asked if I could still go, again borderline rude something that translated to “if you fall and bust your head, don’t come crying to me!”
I didn’t think twice about her tone. I DID think twice about MY breaking the rules.
That’s exactly what this passenger should have done, too. Say you’re sorry, explain if you want, hang up. Don’t try to turn it around: “I can’t get my way, so I’m gonna turn all the blame on a FA who was mean to me.” Eat a cookie, go take a nap.
I know you love to blame the crews but I can’t find fault here. She was given ample time to end her call and instead chose to start arguing rather than say “ok, goodbye”.
LMAO … Whole story not true !!!!
Her twitter feed is a cesspool. She’s just doing this to pump crypto, probably because she’s holding a huge bag. Gary playing straight into her hand.
For those of you who say ‘have some compassion’.. Where is the compassion when we as flight attendants have to constantly remind you to wear your mask while your 3 year old wears his correctly for the duration of the flight. Or where is the compassion when you put hands on a flight attendant and the only repercussions are you are moved to the next flight. She got what she deserved.
@KG, you are absolutely right but you know the people how write these articles are on Delta Payroll and try everything nessesary to make AA look bad.
I’m sick of FA’s being the constant scapegoat and AA being the airline of choice for that as well. If people acted like adults instead of 2 year old, allowing for slack for this woman’s circumstances, things would go much more smoothly. Somehow it needs to be gotten across at time of ticket purchase that the CREW is in charge and violating their requests/orders is (often) not just being uncooperative or disrespectful, but in violation of federal law. She only made it worse for herself, but not knowing/comprehending the law and reasoning for it, this is what happens….and publishing these stories only serves as click bait imo. Just another day at AA or any other airline for that matter.
The passenger was in the wrong.
Period and Simple.
This woman deserved to be kicked off the flight. The fact that she lost a family member is irrelevant. She was told to end the call (twice) and she didn’t. And her “I demand respect” line reeks of arrogance and entitlement.
Sorry not sorry: zero tolerance for
Karens…..
Several issues are generic to this situation. Colombians are fiercely loyal to family ties. Secondly, they are respectful of protocol . . . but not before family. Living in Colombian as an American veteran it did not take me long to realize that the soldiers in their military would not do well in a conflict in a distant country – they are too tied to a matriarchal sense of responsibility. Put all that together and you can understand where the woman was coming from
I see no problem with her being kicked off the flight, probably needs to be done more often.
If she had to be asked a 2nd time to stop violating a federal law, I have no sympathy for her missed funeral.
Passenger was fully wrong. Agree with deplaning her. HOWEVER, the flight attendant has no right to touch you. They do have the right and likely the obligation to have you removed by law enforcement who does have the right to touch you if needed.
I once had a FA put his hand in my lap and then said “oh I was just checking if your seatbelt was buckled”.
Shouldn’t be flying if you cannot maintain control and be compliant with federal rules and regulations. We’ve all had stress over the top, including family tragedies to process while traveling. That doesn’t mean we can delay an entire plane full of people. I fly every week. I’d be very upset if this woman added to the sh*t show circus we’re all having to deal with…..especially on American!!!
2 million miles with AA…have rarely (if ever) seen FA crossing a line, has always been on passenger side and is usually those who rarely fly…main problem (imo) is we are seeing the business travelers not flying (Covid) and that space taken by the non or very rare passengers…
Rules should be followed.
They are based on the costly mistakes that cost too expensive for people. Planes are very dangerous to opetate.So people should not bring their rights before other people safety.Stay home if cannot follow simple instruction. Grow up.
I feel bad for the lady however when on a flight, the airlines have to leave the gate and be in the air within a certain time period. The airlines are clear about the phone usage during boarding and take off. This is nothing personal but has everything to do with safety and on time performance. We all like to arrive at our destination on time and safely, correct? I do agree that some FA’s out there can be rude which violates all standards of their job description but we as passengers need to be smart travelers and not act like we’re at home. There are others to consider on this plane and she should have simply said “I have to go, I’m onboard, I’ll see you in a few hours”. That’s it. End of problem.
A few people make some very cognizant arguments, like Roman for example, but for the most part I can’t understand the anger at the woman.
We know from the story that English is not her native language, and it’s implied she is not an American citizen. Do you a) always understand something correctly the first time someone speaks to you in a foreign language, and b) do you always study all the the local federal laws regarding the means of travel you take in foreign lands?
We also know, according to the story, that she was physically assaulted before the attempt to remove her. For those who think unwanted touching is ok – as long as it’s not too much- when does it become to much? Unwanted touching is uncomfortable and sometimes disgusting in it’s mildest form! Would you be comfortable with unknown men and women touching female members of your family without permission? Telling someone to stop touching your body SHOULD deserve an immediate apology regardless of the underlying problem that caused the FA to be aggressive.
FAs are having a more stressful time right now. But that doesn’t give licence to get touchy-feelly with people. I’m sure most of us (most because of that guy up above who likes violence) feel horrible when we read of things happening to FAs in the sky – like the poor woman who recently was violently assaulted by the man who was hit by her beverage cart. I have great respect for FAs and most of them are awesome. One of the things that make them awesome is that they leave their personal trials in the terminal’s. It sounds like that didn’t happen this time.
It seems appropriate to me to first see if someone on the plane could speak her language, instead of just repeating the same words in English a second time
You break the rules,off you go! Tough sh..
As heartless as this is i say good. We need more stories like this. I’m not special. You aren’t special. The rules are the rules and we all follow them. You don’t get to ignore them because it’s convenient for you or because you’ve had a bad day.
Bill,
A few observations.
– Her comments were in English, so it doesn’t seem she didn’t understand what was being told to her.
– She was in the inside seat so…. not sure how hard she could’ve been “manhandled”.
– In all her grief, she was still able to tage numerous people/accounts so not thinking she was too overwhelmed to listen.
Of course, none of us know this but I could see where the FA couldn’t get her attention the second time and put his hand on her shoulder. I don’t want to quantify how hard or soft that was….but imagine you were reaching over to get someone’s attention…. would you try to rip the socket out or give a tug?
A tap on the shoulder or a light tug, really, are we saying that’s over the line? It’s what I’d expect someone to do to me if they had been trying to get my attention and couldn’t….it has in fact happened to me…..no issues.
Again, I have no idea what really happened but, as someone with a younger sister who managed to cry a river when we were younger and get me grounded regularly( then snicker at me when she succeeded. The humani- I digress…) ,
Just thinking this women’s argument seems intended to garner sympathy, not relate what happened.
I could be wrong
She didn’t want to get off her phone, OK.
By removing her from the plane she is now allowed to talk I’m the phone all she wants.
Win-win or all involved. Why is she complaining? Her phone call was more important than her flight. Now she doesn’t have to worry about this flight and can talk to family all she wants.
If I were in the se situation, my efforts would be spent trying to actually be withy family, but what do I know…
Her feelings are irrelevant…she MUST comply with crew member instructions…or…she can make other travel arrangements…no empathy here whatsoever…
SO – rules don’t apply to some people- the “ it ain’t my fault”, that doesn’t apply to me” population.
SO – rules don’t apply to some people- the “ it ain’t my fault”, that doesn’t apply to me” population. Again
As usual Gary “the Hack” is bashing AA yet again. If she was told multiple times to hang up then it’s on her. The flight attendants have plenty of things to do besides engage with a disrespectful passenger who is filming just to get sympathy. Ever notice that if your in the right, the surrounding passengers are most likely the ones who are recording.
Get a life Gary your still nothing more than an anti AA hack!
You “demand respect” when you are being asked (for the second time) to comply with FEDERAL REGULATIONS? The regulations apply to every passenger. Sorry for your loss. Maybe you should look into a private jet.
Passengers who disregard rules (hang up so others are not inconvenienced) need to be deplaned. She was. Now she believes she’s entitled. Such a CAREN!!!!
Take a bus, case closed.
Are we finally going to see a return to people being punished for being jerks? If you’re so distraught that you can’t follow the simple rules of flying, you shouldn’t be travelling without supervision. Just do what you’re supposed to and stop trying to get your 15 minutes of fame by inconveniencing everyone else. The more bad behaviour people get away with, the badder it will get.
AA was correct, Flight Attendant was correct. Passenger was wrong. Period.
“There’s no disputing the woman was in the wrong…” enough said. Today in Gary Leff’s unwarranted opinion..
I haven’t flown since 2010 but I do strongly agree cell phones need to be stowed away while preparing for take off. I don’t like to be on the phone anymore than anyone else does. When I do fly, I will fly safely while in compliance with the FA’s. They’re awesome and they work long hours. We really need to give them more credit for their duties. I will even mask up even when after this pandemic ends.
Flight attendants are only the messenger – please don’t shoot the messenger.
They are part nurse, counselor, daycare, server, conflict resolution specialist and always safety professionals.
Give them a break and please do as they ask – they’re just abiding by FAA rules. Let’s just all get along people.