Airlines don’t want passengers onboard who will spread disease or cause a diversion. Flight crew aren’t always best-positioned to judge this, but they’re in a position where they have to. And airlines often do things out of an abundance of caution, although nearly every time you hear that phrase it’s a cover for stupidity.
Beth Evans was flying Emirates from Birmingham in the U.K. to Dubai. She told her boyfriend about her cramps. A flight attendant overheard the conversation and started quizzing her about it.
While she considered the pain to be a one on a scale of 1-10 the couple was removed from the flight. And they had to come out of pocket $350 apiece to get rebooked.
“Beth was in tears and getting upset when the hostess was asking her questions.
“It’s embarrassing to have to explain about period pains when it’s being overheard.”
Emirates, though, says of course they wouldn’t have wanted the pain to worsen in flight for the woman’s own good.
“The passenger alerted crew that she was suffering from discomfort and pain and mentioned she was feeling unwell.
“The captain made the decision to request medical support and offload Ms Evans so she could access medical assistance.
“We would not have wanted to endanger Ms Evans by delaying medical help had she worsened during the flight.”
A few years ago while onboard Cathay Pacific I overheard a business class passenger complaining to a flight attendant during boarding that her skin was having a bad reaction to one of the items in her amenity kit. The woman was removed from the aircraft and not allowed to fly. The last thing Cathay Pacific wanted was a medical emergency inflight causing a diversion.
I’m paranoid about getting sick and wish that sick passengers wouldn’t fly. Or at least if you have a cold or flu that you won’t sit next to me. So I think more people shouldn’t fly rather than fewer.
But this one seems pretty stupid. Indeed my worry is that passengers take away the lesson from such overreactions that they need to prevent crew from knowing when they feel less than well.
Insert “period joke”
The crew made the right call. Once the door is closed, she is the charge of the airline and once in the air, there is a reasonable risk based on what was known and overheard that her health couldn’t be protected.
Clearly mathew has never experienced menstrual cramps
Emirates doesn’t **** around when it comes to medical things. I sat on a flight from DXB to SEA and overheard a couple sitting in the economy exit row come up with a “plan” to get a free upgrade to business.
The husband thought that he could tell them that “there was some weird substance on his seat” that made him feel “not well” and they would just move him.
Well, once he told a flight attendant that, it was game over. They wasted no time getting a doctor on the phone, and basically were told that they were going to have to get off and take the flight the next day until they could be certain he was not well. The wife was seething by the time they left.
Security had to come and inspect the area, and my wife and I got to move over from the middle bulkhead row to the emergency exit row where we enjoyed 5 feet of legroom for the entire 15h flight back to SEA. Thanks, moron.
Bottom line for this lengthy story: with Emirates, if you’re not feeling well, and you tell them, they have zero risk appetite for it and *will* ask you to deplane.
Nope, I haven’t. But it is irrelevant. Gary’s article indicates the passenger was sufficiently in pain to be in tears and managed to attract attention of the flight crew (who surely have other things to do.)
It is also likely that the Emirates crew member was female and therefore likely had experienced menstrual cramps.
It’s the same situation when I was on a flight where a passenger noted to the flight crew they were severely allergic to peanuts (even dust.) The captain was notified and asked her to deplane. She freaked; started screaming and yelling. The pilot said that once they were aware of the risk, he couldn’t guarantee her safety and that is fundamentally their #1 job.
If it was a ‘hostess’ rather than a male FA, said hostie should have been fully au fait about monthly ‘girl problems’ and shown a bit of sympathy rather than kick them off the flight. Is there more to this story maybe?
@Matthew M: I don’t think she was in tears because of the pain. But probably because of people like you.
@Maureen: You are right. After he fully transitions though, he will have first hand experience. Soon.
@Matthew: Haven’t you ever wondered what your life would be like if it weren’t for that extra chromosome you carry? The girl was experiencing pain on the lowest level (1) of the scale. The highest is 10, Einstein. She was in tears and upset from the stewardess grilling her about the blood flowing from her minge. I suppose you will come to understand better after you fully transition. For now, ask the fruit flies around you to explain.
Gary: My wife and I flew DL 1704 yesterday from Detroit to Ft. Lauderdale. We were sitting in seats 4A and 4B. As the crew is getting the final passengers on, the gentleman sitting ahead of us in 3A is talking to – and berating his daughter. It seems that she had left the gate area during boarding to find a Starbucks and get something to drink. Now, the gate agent had apparently closed the doors at the gate, and the jetway operator had pulled the jetway back from the plane. The gate personnel were apparently telling the daughter that she would be accommodated on the next flight to Ft. Lauderdale. The gentleman in 3A asked the flight attendant if the jetway could be rolled back to the plane to accommodate his daughter, as “his little girl had to go to the bathroom, and was now crying at the gate”. From what I gathered from listening to him on his phone to his daughter, and what he told the FA, she may have had a physical problem (possibly her period), and she apparently told her father that the Starbucks “would help make her feel better”. The FA on board told the father that she would inform the captain.
Sure enough, the jetway was replaced, and about 5 minutes later, the 20-something young lady carrying her Starbucks got on the plane.
We left the gate about 10 minutes late, and arrived in Ft. Lauderdale about 20 minutes late.
Now contrast this behavior by Delta with what Emirates did, and with the behavior of American under its “D0” policy. You can argue either side of the decision, but I think the pilot did the humane thing – a bit of a rare thing in flying today. (Perhaps the decision would have been different if it has been inbound to the hub rather than outbound from the hub. Few people connect on Delta through Ft. Lauderdale.) My personal opinion — I am more likely to fly Delta as a result.
I’m OK with making them deplane, but DAMN, making them pay a rebooking fee is WRONG!
I can understand why EK has done this. They dont want to have a risk of the flight being diverted in mid air in case the pain gets too much.
They would probably be shafted by the blogging community in case they didnt do anything and the ladies situation got worse.
I bumped my head getting on to a small plane a few years ago and it was bleeding. Just a scratch but I needed a napkin. They wanted to kick me off the plane. Feel pretty fortunate now that they didn’t. I think they would be less lenient today, but I thought it was ridiculous at the time.
@747always: Well, Jethro, thanks for clearing things up. The female population of the world should be restricted from flying about 15% of their adult life. Should they wear a calendar on their sleeve, for you?
People that take this story personally need to at least acknowledge that it takes a long time to dump enough fuel to emergency land a plane that will fly 15 hours. Also, the most likely point of aircraft accident is takeoff, landing, and presence on taxi or runway.
@RetiredLawyer comment could have been a good blog story as unusual and comedic as it sounds.
A video would be scrutinized for years to find the one detail confirming that it was photoshopped or staged.
Actually, Delta did the right thing. While it was a nuisance to all the customers, Delta let her deplane without removing her luggage, and corrected the problem by letting her back on. I am sure the gate agent and cabin crew we’re confused when the head count didn’t add up before departure `:| … right Delta?
Correction to my Delta comment… making the story even more unlikely,”Daddies little girl” left the boarding area not the plane to retrieve a Starbucks. So the headcount would have matched. I guess we can assume row 3 is First class. If it was premium basic economy, I would short circuit in disbelief.
A flight crew’s responsibility, legally and morally, is for your safety. Full stop.
If the flight crew was made aware that an emergency exit door was potentially not operating correctly; and that door device is on the MEL, the flight does not leave because there is a known risk to safety.
There is no difference whether it is an emergency exit door, or in the judgement of the crew that a passenger’s health is a risk to themselves (or others.)
Aside from the cost (a A380 might cost $150-$200k+ to divert), if the flight crew’s decision was to fly with a non-operating door, or a passenger whose health was concerning… and something happened, the liability would be significant and blame would be on the airline and flight crew. If the airline’s only legal and responsibility is for your safety, that’s a risk they are not going to take. Cold hearted; sure. Required by the legal and moral framework we expect; absolutely.
@Matthew: Obviously you are retarded and a liar. Congenital, perhaps?
Your analogy is lame. A faulty door cannot be compared in any way to a young lady on the first day of her period with pain on the lowest of a scale of 1 to 10. You really should not have skipped remedial reading in your GED classes. She was crying because of the embarrassment of having to discuss her period with the hostess who, it seems, must be your congenital twin.
There was absolutely no reasonable risk at all. Well, only in your pea-brain there was. On behalf of the gene pool, I seriously hope you are not allowed to breed.
We are all missing all of the details to try and assess whether the right decision was made by the flight crew. It’s not our discussion whether menstrual cramps or peanut allergies are a risk to the passenger or the flight.
But what I trust you respect (as a reader of Gary’s aviation oriented blog) is that the flight crew has ownership of making that decision on whether the passenger flies.
The US and other governments around the world have continually upheld and enforced an airline and therefore captain’s legal responsibility and implicit liability for all passengers safety. They may not make the best call, but they have the final call and as pilots are — they are risk averse.
@Matthew: So let me get this straight. If this is how the airline should act every time you have a headache or a cramp somewhere then every airline is transporting tens of thousands of these passengers every day.
If it is truly a safety issue with that percentage of passengers then the FAA would have guidelines and regulations dealing with this. The airlines would have to deal with this nearly every flight.
Do we also need doctors at airports to evaluate if the woman may bleed out in the next 72 hours?
If the passenger volunteered to the FA that she was in distress then Emirates has a leg to stand on. If the FA overheard a conversation about what generally happens to many women pretty regularly and then decided that “this” particular situation required deplaning then they were wrong. All this will do is cause people not to speak up if there really is a problem and the airlines will lose far more money in the long run.
@Matthew: As suspected you are a congenital liar.
With “missing all of the details to try and assess whether the right decision was made,” you spouted this drivel:
“The crew made the right call. Once the door is closed, she is the charge of the airline and once in the air, there is a reasonable risk based on what was known and overheard that her health couldn’t be protected.”
Just how many extra chromosomes do you have?
Something smells fishy!!!
As Gary said, the takeaway is to NEVER let crew know that you have any inkling of pain or might be sick.
Years ago I was on a cruise that was severely affected by norovirus and believe me the crew was on the lookout for passengers with it as they would quarantine you to your cabin.
I caught something (maybe norovirus) and hid it from the crew and quarantined myself for what I thought was the appropriate amount of time. Which believe me was much less time than the ship would have. Bottom line, I kept control of my situation as I believe I am the best judge as to my body.
The crew be da***ed.
My goodness, I sure didn’t expect some of those comments after reading this post. My take is that it’s just another example of airline staff dispensing with common sense. The question is whether a medical problem is likely to cause an issue in flight, and menstrual cramps are not really on the list of things to divert for.
@JC you would probably make a better argument if you weren’t so condescending and outright nasty. The FA is following a policy which makes sense on an international flight. The FA can’t risk being misinformed by the pax who may be disguising an altogether different medical condition which might turn serious in the air.
Please attempt to get off your angry horse. Thank you.
Well, you got the better service you wanted with Emirates! Next time stick with BA where no one on the staff gives a shit!
Matthew M, what planet do you come from? Have you ever had any kind of relationship with a woman? A mother, sister, or girfriend? Menstrual cramps are entirely normal and are NOT a “medical issue” or a “medical emergency.” No woman has ever died from painful menstrual cramps. A couple of cocktails onboard and the passenger’s cramps would have abated.
JC: Kudos for comments re Matthew. What a dufus.
And guys: a period is not catching. And you can’t die from it either. Airlines need to calm down. But you’re right: this just tells people don’t let the airline know if you aren’t feeling well. And that may be something contagious and that doesn’t bode well for the rest of us just because someone couldn’t use common sense.
@KimmieA and s and others..
I’m not in a position to judge whether cramps or allergies constitute a medical emergency. I’m not a doctor, and likely none members of the flight crew were either. Nor are the flight crew airplane mechanics. And that is the point.
If the crew should have dismissed or ignored the passengers apparent symptoms which caused the concerns, then that is no different than giving the authority of a captain to ignore a warning light because they may think it is a false alarm. That is a slippery slope that disintegrates the safety regime in place.
An airplane is not a democracy. The flight crew and the captain have the last call. The rules for dealing with broken airplane parts are clear where dealing with the health of passengers are not so clear. But the guidance is the same, if there is any doubt, the plane or passenger doesn’t fly.
The FAA, and numerous court decisions (Google it) in the US and around the world, always have placed responsibility and liability for the safety of all passengers with the flight crew and implicitly; the captain.
I agree that it has yield an unfortunate result, but if you have a better way to preserve the safety regime without turning airline crew into doctors or airplane mechanics, your ideas are welcome.
That is why I support the crew and their right to make the decision they made.
@Matthew M: You don’t need to be a doctor to know that a monthly menstrual cycle can’t kill. Even men like myself know that full well. It’s not defensible especially when you said “It is also likely that the Emirates crew member was female and therefore likely had experienced menstrual cramps”. If the FA was a female and hopefully she has experienced menstrual cramps by the time she became an FA, maybe she should have known better to make a better decision. Full stop.
@747always: Seriously, you’d do far better if you didn’t have that pesky little extra chromosome. Are you that stupid to believe the lady was somehow confused about why she was experiencing a very minimal amount of pain? By the way, that was a hypothetical question so no need for your malformed little noggin to struggle to invent a lie to answer.
Heaven forbid someone sneezes onboard: 747always would abort the flight because there’s the risk the sneeze was caused by anthrax spores. Reading a nice novel and your eyes get misty when the heroine dies? According to Jethro, abort the flight! It’s clearly a symptom of an evil, highly contagious brain-eating cancer.
Jethro, the only question here is whether you are really a moron or just a giant turd. My horse votes turd.
If I was kicked off every time Parker gave me cramps, I would be on the no fly list
@S: You are far too optimistic and kind. Matthew & Crew are not anywhere close to being a dufus. He’s clearly a douchebag.
@Kimmie: The only experience Matthew has with females would be his relationship with the fruit flies that surround him.
@Matthew: Can’t you have that extra chromosome surgically removed already?
You keep pulling stories out of your ass comparing menstrual pain to a broken hatch or warning lights in the cockpit. While FAs are not doctors or mechanics, just because you have an IQ of 4 doesn’t mean they do, too. They know a seat that has a broken recline function isn’t reason to abort a flight. Neither is a broken toilet paper holder in the lavatory. Or a window shade that while closed still allows in a sliver of light.
On your planet perhaps people aren’t expected to exercise discretion, but here on ours they are. A little sneeze doesn’t mean you have the plague. An itch on your knee doesn’t mean your leg will explode and infect everybody with anthrax.
In all seriousness, Matthew, you should be sterilized. Allowing you to breed will be disastrous for the gene pool.
So @JC selectively outrages. She only proves that the true people who have spoilt the gene pool are her parents, who
1. Brought that stupid excrescence into the world
2. Were stupid and passed that on to JC
3. Did not teach her to read and understand things before spouting her nonsense.
Of course, if heavens forbid, it wasn’t a period cramp in reality and only displayed as such and the lady fell ill on the flight Outrage Auntie JC would get on her angry steed and spout off against them.
JC should wear a badge on her sleeve showcasing her outraging capabilities so that polite and well meaning individuals can stay away from the waste of oxygen that is JC.
Poor @747always. Jethro, is there anything in life you haven’t failed at? You hags haven’t confided in you that they are fully aware when menstruales pains are really menstrual pains and not a ruptured appendix or tumorous growth? Maybe after your transition you will learn firsthand.
Actually, Jethro, you have are medical science. You have that your extra chromosome and ESP are mutually exclusive. You have proven that your extra chromosome prevents you from accurately and precisely using English pronouns.
Please, we implore you, if you have any respect for humanity and a future with a healthy gene pool, get yourself sterilized. Set up a Go Fund Me page and I’m sure many here will contribute.
Aww. JC wakes up again to spread her stupidity across the world. She lacks the intellegence and decency to read what has been read because her panties are in an ever twisted state. Nicwe to hear the doctor who birthed you slapped your parents first for putting the condom on a golf club.
Of course the Paragon of Perfection, @JC, doesnt even know when to write your, you’re or you. We empathise with you, dear product of an idiot. To quote the Harridan of Hideousness, Ms JC herself, try harder.
The Nitwit of Nastiness, @JC is so concerned about others effects on the gene pool. Sadly she reminds one of those kids who pees in the pool themselves, and then blames others.
Let us hope that the Pervert Princess manages to change herself at some point. The stench of her nastiness is transmitted through the Internet. At least she can claim to have a superpower
OOOH! @JC what is a menstruales? Please share the wisdom of your Pissantness with us mere mortals.
Or at least dont screw up your own grammar when attempting to correct others grammar
Dear Gary, and other commenters. I apologise for my outburst but that creature JC is spouting nonsense without reading what is written. I shouldn’t have lost my cool.
Clearly ridiculous on the part of the eavesdropping flight attendant. It’s basic cramps – like a headache, people, and @Matthew in particular, who I feel would be far happier if those pesky women would just stay in the damn kitchen where they belong.
@Thanh – I agree, menstrual cramps can’t kill and I’ve never said it could. That is the logic that you, I and most people would share. But the Emirates FA is probably not currently empowered to make that judgement call as soon as they became aware of the passengers discomfort and situation. A process could probably be assembled to assess and address such situations (much like the resolution processes for a random warning light); but until then, airlines aren’t taking a chance. That’s the right that I support.
(Not sure what everyone else is getting so crazy about. A good discussion of opinions on how to maintain airline safety is one thing, personal insults about pro-creation is another.)
@Twisted Panties: It takes a unique level of retardation to not understand the extra “es” is an Apple spell-check thing. If, like Jethro, you are confused about when to use specific gender pronouns maybe you should have had a long talk with your mommy before coming out of the closet. Or then again you really should address your father as she.
@Matthew: You keep pulling highfalutin stories out of your ass. What process have they assembled to decide whether to fly or not when a seat is broken or the TP dispenser doesn’t work?
If you weren’t a douchebag then people wouldn’t have to treat you as one. Until then, only on national Be Kind to the Extra Chromosomed Day should people be kind to you.
Oh, @747always, why did you skip those GED classes? You vs. your is called a typo. A complete lack of mental ability which causes you to choose incorrectly the correct gender pronoun on a consistent basis is called “the syph infection racking your tiny little monkey brain.”
I’m sure you have ample experience peeing in pools and putting rubbers on golf clubs. But please keep whining. Maybe one of your hags will finally decide to just have you snipped. The gene pool would rejoice.
Just to show there’s no hard feelings, Jethro, don’t fly Emirates today. They will surely notice — as you have demonstrated here — that you are 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 on period pain.
@JC – Where? I personally average about 150+ flights a year, often in J class, and I enjoy the opportunity in chatting with the cockpit and cabin crew. They love to talk. I have personally showed my respect to the hard decisions several captains had to make after requiring passengers to be removed. Then I have numerous friends who work at a variety of airlines in the front office, cabin, ground crew and maintenance. Oh, my son is a commercial pilot and my Uncle is a recently retired commercial ATP after 30 odd years on B707s, L1011s, B737s & 757s.
And the answer to your seat question (because I had this happen two years ago.) Briefly; once the passenger noted the seat is broken and the flight crew confirms it isn’t user error (it happens), the passenger must be re-accomodated, an AME is required to attempt to fix and if they can’t fix they must mark the seat in-op, record it in the log, then a bunch of signatures and clearances noting an approved exception to the MEL. There is a process. Not sure about the TP holder. But I do know that the coffee maker is absolutely on the MEL on American.
Careful who you question about ‘high-falutin’. There are people on this forum that don’t just read about the industry, they are part of the industry.
Not rising to the provocation JC. You’re a nasty small minded person who only wishes to drag people down to her own small minded level. I pity your parents and everyone else who has to deal with you on a daily basis. Have a good day. If that’s possible for someone as hate filled as you. Bye now.
It is so hilarious that Jc points out others typos, but when hers are pointed out she starts raging.
As a woman I’m embarrassed that JC appears to be one. She brings a bad name to all women with her stupidity and roid rage. Morons like her who refuse to listen set feminism back every second they breathe.
@747always : twisted panties
Poor @747always … it’s the world’s fault you are a turd.
Explain to us again, Jethro, why your mother shouldn’t be allowed to fly 15% of her adult life. Feel free to lie. We notice you are skilled at it.
You are a prime example why abortions should be retroactive.
@Twisted Panties: If you were actually born female, the gene pool sincerely hopes you are sterilized.
I didn’t point out typos. Of course, with your IQ it’s easy to see why you’d want to see that. I pointed out the inability to choose gender pronouns on a consistent basis. You know, Jethrine, like calling a dog a cat.
You must be one of the fruit blues buzzing around 747’s and Matthew’s pointy little noggins.
We implore you. Get sterilized. Now.
@Twisted Panties: This is called typo. You must be one of the fruit “blues” buzzing around 747’s and Matthew’s pointy little noggins.
You know it means fruit flies. Well, “you” as in people. Which you aren’t.