United Airlines has open contracts with its flight attendants and its mechanics. Flight attendants get most of the press, but mechanics at United are represented by hte Teamsters, who are taking out billboards questioning the airline’s safety over work done by ‘China’. I’d add that it isn’t just heavy checks, but also cabin retrofits, that get sent out.
The union wants to end outsourcing, get substantial raises and increased overtime while contributing less to healthcare, and obtain more job guarantees. The airline has offered pay increases, which the union calls disgraceful and insulting. And the union is attacking United:
Anyone else seen these around Chicago or elsewhere?
byu/nobody_knows_im_gay inunitedairlines
I’d make three points:
- Hong Kong-based HAECO generally does quality work and owns a Xiamen facility as well.
- If United didn’t send planes there, they might send them to Aeroman in El Salvador. Not better for the teamsters!
- When quality maintenance is less expensive, an airline can afford to buy more of it. That’s actually better for safety. Making maintenance too expensive is a risk.
I have my complaints about United, but their safety does not concern me. What does concern me is deteriorating relationships with their mechanics, having lived through an illegal job action by TWU-IAM members at American Airlines in summer 2019.
So, can you be more specific with who (or is it ‘whom’) we are supposed to ‘hate’ here? Is it United or Chinese people, generally? Just wanna get our ‘animus’ pointed in the right direction, ya know…
With their overtime, and that’s what they live for these mechanics pull down $150,000 – $200, 000 a year just in wages. Add their cushy benefits package and I can see why United wants to outsource some of its work!
At bottom is another issue, alone among developed nations, we don’t have a national health care system for everybody. The for profit system is expensive, complicated for patients and providers and leads to bankruptcies. It also has the worst overall outcomes of any developed nation. Since it drives up the costs of hiring people naturally companies will look abroad for cheaper workers.
I was, of course, being sarcastic, above. We should mock attempts at xenophobia.
@drrichard — You’re absolutely right on healthcare, sir. I still think the Affordable Care Act was a step in the right direction, but simply didn’t go far enough (should have included a public option and associated programs either by states and/or the federal government). Oh the irony that Romneycare in Massachusetts was practically the model for this.
We certainly spend the most, but that money doesn’t really go towards better outcomes for our people. We spend like 1/5th of GDP on this, but, like, where does all that money actually go? Administrative costs? Shareholders? Stock buybacks? Insurance executives?
Totally unrelated, but I’m reminded of the historic New York Hilton Midtown. Nice hotel.
Give the union what they want.
Lay off 30% of workforce to pay for “union gains.”
Then outsource to backfill the inevitable maintenance logjam.
Would you trust your safety to the Teamsters union?
@Dave W. — Oh, now I get it, this was just another union-bashing post. Gosh. Not again. Unions are good for workers and the society, generally. If I need to repeat the spiel again, I will. And, @Stephen M’s comment practically confirms it. Alright, so I’ll expect @Mike P (and the others) will be here soon to pour out their libertarian gobbledygook once more, telling us how collective bargaining is ironically ‘against’ free speech and assembly. Oof. No, fellas, not the case.
Google “tofu dregs” and watch a few videos. It’s not just buildings, it’s everything, everywhere. The #1 reason to stop outsourcing to China.
Why aren’t we outsourcing to places where the quality standards can be easily monitored to be on par with the US but wages are lower? I’m thinking Eastern Europe, Chile, Turkiye, the Philippines.
anyone that thought the mechanics at UA would be as patient as the FAs in getting a contract were incredibly naive.
UA loves to play and placate its unions and their leadership and, in doing so, avoids paying about $1 billion more in labor costs compared to their peers AA, DL and WN.
part of the contract proposal that the mechanics shot down was for UA to increase maintenance outsourcing in order to pay for higher wages. The UA mechanics shot down the proposal – which its own union sent to it – by over 99%.
China just happens to be in the crosshairs of American minds right now; the point is that US airline unions are not interested in any more outsourcing.
If there is anything Boeing has taught us, is that corporations will always put safety above profits.
This is why Boeing followed strict standards and did not lie about the MAX. A corporation is always trustworthy and adheres to the highest standards. The unions are the problem, not corporate America.
Yet China builds high speed trains, iPhones, and other advanced technologies we use day to day.
Yet here we are, playing on people’s fears.
When they can’t legitimately justify why it’s a bad practice, go for the fear and racism bit.
I’m no fan of the Communist government, but if they do a better job than you, the issue isn’t them, it’s your own business model.
I still remember John Samuelson (TWU President) and Robert Isom (CEO American Airlines) at a LGA town hall in 2019. After John spoke things got resolved. I think his speech is still on you tube.
@1990 Have to disagree with you there. I fail to see how charging me $2,000 to drive a forklift for 20 minutes to move my trade show materials from the dock to my booth benefits me or society. It definitely benefits them though. $500 would be excessive. $2k is extortionate. Side note flew AA Flagship First back in Feb after back and forth and it wasn’t as dilapidated as feared. There were a couple of wear points the seat fully functioned but the IFE was on the slow side. It was a nice last hurrah.
@kimmiea tofu dregs only apply to Chinese stuff made for Chinese consumption. Most of the time it’s just to get paid. The Chinese take foreigners and foreigner business very seriously. There is no such thing as a tofu dreg iPhone that everyone loves or tofu dreg solar panels. The Chinese will screw each other over for 1 RMB but not foreign products for foreign consumption because we pay them well.
@Alan — Well said. Yup, stock-buybacks instead, too. Disgusting. They clearly should have developed a new airframe, and at least ensured proper training on MCAS, which they clearly didn’t, especially for those two fatal accidents in 2018 and 2019, costing 346 lives. The deferred prosecution agreement in 2021was supposed to include a $2.5 billion settlement, with $500 million for victims’ compensation. Yet, Boeing’s guilty plea to criminal fraud in July 2024, included just a fine of up to $487.2 million. I imagine this is not enough for those families of the victims. I doubt this administration is going to hold any companies accountable, unless they dare upset the god-king, personally.
@UnitedEF — You’re always welcome to disagree and debate on here, especially with me. I can understand your disappointment with the teamsters, specifically, however, their members do far more than the gross oversimplification you described. As with any ‘group’ there are good and bad leaders and members at times; accountability and transparency usually root out corruption and waste. Of course, that can be abused as well, as calls for ‘efficiency’ have been nothing more than an opportunity to ‘purge’ perceived enemies (se DOGE), not to actually help anything meaningfully. Unless, of course, you watch right-wing entertainment, in which case, I presume everything is awesome all the time. Ahh, so yeah, as Neil says, ‘Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World…’
As for Flagship First, glad it went well (as it should!) Was it on the a321T, or the 773? I’ve flown both, and certainly prefer the ‘big boy’ swivel-chair on the 773. My seat was recently damaged on an a321T from LAX-JFK in April, though, thankfully it still worked; just had to be manually lowered and raised for the lie-flat position. A fellow traveler’s seat required a healthy amount of duct tape. Bah! I look forward to the new a321XLR, whenever that eventually comes on live.
Remember when the federal government took over and ran the teamsters for over 25 years because of their ties to the Mafia? Teamsters would invest their members health and welfare and pension dollars into shell corporations, and split the proceeds with the mafia. Those show corporations went in business members money disappeared.
Over 25 Years!
the bottom line is that UA knows its advantage right now is paying its people less and, as all SIX labor contracts covering 65,000 employees become amendable – in addition to the FAs and mechanics that are in that status now – UA”s profits will fall.
it’s called collective bargaining for a reason. Labor should not just have to roll over and play dead because a company does not want to face the reality that their profits compared to their peers are just not what everyone thinks
I’m an FAA Safety Inspector with over 55 years in the business. I’ve used a number of Chinese heavy maintenance facilities over the years and, later, done inspections of both Chinese and UAL maintenance. I’ll gladly put the Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou MROs up against anything the Teamsters have to show, anytime.
People talk about tofu dreg construction, Chinese bad quality, etc.
Let me ask this question, has there been any accidents or derailments in China’s high-speed rail system?
Surely I have not heard of such a thing compared to the likes of what happened in East Palestine, Ohio
“I’m an FAA Safety Inspector with over 55 years in the business. I’ve used a number of Chinese heavy maintenance facilities over the years and, later, done inspections of both Chinese and UAL maintenance. I’ll gladly put the Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou MROs up against anything the Teamsters have to show, anytime.”
End of argument. Screw the Teamsters and their xenophobic racist ads.
Kirby is truly gifted at pissing off his people. First it was the pilots, the FA’s haven’t had a contract for years, and now the machinists too.
“Would you trust a majority Chinese-owned company with….(fill in the blank)”
My private information? No.
Just about anything else? Sure why not. If you find some item that’s impossibly cheap, it’s no surprise when the plastic casing is cheap, workmanship is poor, design cuts corners, and sometimes implementation cuts even more corners (leaving out power supply caps or the like). But avoid the “Temu/Wish” special and quality can be fine. And (addressing the other concern why people would cut back on buying from China) I find it more likely my own gov’t will spy on me than CCP will start spying through whatever items end up coming in from China.
That said — I don’t blame the Teamsters for putting up this billboard. Of course the US’s relationship with China right now is strained, and of course the Teamsters would prefer this work is done here in the states. Billboards are just not that expensive and it’s a smart move for them to put it up.
Whose side are you on? Didn’t the Teamsters chose the other side because they’ consider themselves “skilled” labor.
Christian,
actually, anyone that he doesn’t want something from.
@cairns — If you’re actually against xenophobic and racism, maybe you should go back and check your various comments on earlier posts here, good sir or madam. Hmm…
1990 maybe you should do the same. You’ve defended unions at all costs. Yet you have no defense now. Other than to point fingers of course.
You refuse to admit this ad is nothing but racist xenophobic BS.
How telling.
If you think the Chinese are less capable of aircraft maintenance or anything else at least have the balls to say so.
But..but..but. is not an excuse.
Knowing you we’ll now hear four paragraphs of BS about why you’re not worthy……go for it.
I know you can’t- just once- ever STFU.
The simple fact is that even if United wished to bring the work in-house or domestic, there is simply no capacity to do so. The heavy checks are huge and take extensive labor and time to complete. Retrofits also require significant labor and time. Haeco is the best, or certainly one of the best MRO’s worldwide. They have successfully in business for many years and have operated as a joint venture with Lufthansa, United’s key STAR Alliance partner, for more than 20 years. The union sabre rattling is so tiresome, they should focus of productive discussions that offer realistic opportunities. This is not one of them.
annie,
and yet is or is not UA wanting to outsource even more work? The union says that UA wants to outsource more work to justify the pay raises they will give out. If so, the union does have a reason to speak out.
Plenty of unions have been promised higher pay if they keep outsourcing their jobs one contract at a time.
@cairns — No, you.
Yup, unions are still generally good for workers and the society at-large, including higher wages, reasonable hours, safer working conditions, health benefits, and aid when retired or injured, just to name a few reasons.
Neither a billboard nor any other one-off detracts from that truth above. Yeah, the Chinese people are just fine, and those properly trained to maintain aircraft are probably just fine. This was all silly. That’s why Gary posted it. Great user engagement opportunity.
Welp, you got your wish; that was technically four paragraphs. Woop!