News and notes from around the interweb:
- How much training should an airline pilot need? (WSJ, HT: @crucker)
I’d add that Europe is just as safe and didn’t follow from 250 hours to 1,500 and indeed European co-pilots fly without 1,500 hours in the U.S. every day. And also that driving up the cost and time to become a pilot shuts out talented out, so we draw on a less talented pool for the cockpit – that’s bad for safety.
For decades, the minimum flight time to perform the duties of a first officer (aka co-pilot) on an airliner was 250 hours. …Even experts aren’t sure where the 1,500-hour figure came from…You could build most of your time sitting right seat on charter flights with a crusty captain who never, ever lets you touch the controls. A pilot could fly the same planes, on the same routes, in the same fair weather for 1,500 hours, perhaps picking up very bad flying habits in the process.
- Something we may not think about that drives loyalty: clean restrooms. Lessons here for everyone, even airlines and hotels. (HT: So Many Points newsletter)
- Here’s a walkthrough of San Diego’s new terminal 1. It will be getting an Escape lounge.
- More automation here should eliminate chance for error, and that’s great. But we’ll see how well it works – AURA does not always work well!
- Las Vegas Has a Problem: Too Much Luxury
- Lyft is testing telling drivers in advance how often riders tip so they can use that in deciding whether to accept a ride.
This is being completely misunderstood, “For Lyft, which owns about 30% of the US rideshare market, releasing new features that benefit drivers can help it win over drivers from its larger rival Uber Technologies Inc.”
It’s not about ‘winning over drivers.’ On the contrary, it’s about squeezing them. If drivers know there’s a high likelihood of getting paid more for the ride, they’ll be more likely to accept rides at lower pay from Lyft.
Ok so the premise here is that more flight time doesn’t mean more experience. That’s ludicrous. By the way the 1500 hours is EASY TO FIGURE OUT if you apply yourself. It’s the hours required for an ATP, Airline Transport Pilot certificate. You talk about examples of how one could not have adequate experience even with 1500 hours but that’s like saying a heart surgeon who has 500 surgeries could have just watched them all. Honestly that’s BS. So yeah, let’s shoot ourselves with the a loaded pistol rather than play Russian roulette? Let’s ensure the pilot has little experience vs making a valiant attempt at increasing experience for pilots who carry so many innocent lives into the air! Makes sense….NOT!
Also you know why this rule was made right? How soon we forget flight 3509 in 2009 when the captain was poorly adequate to even fly a plane and the FO was sick and 1/2 asleep on the way to Buffalo. Congress decided rightly to raise the bar so innocent passengers and those on the ground don’t needlessly die due to poorly trained and inexperienced kids flying these flights.
Oops meant Colgan 3407. Damn typos!
I donno about ‘less safe,’ but I can see how such ‘rules’ are making it ‘more expensive’ for airlines. As with most things, ‘it depends’ whether that is actually a ‘safety’ issue, rather than just economic.
Likewise, a lot of operational decisions aren’t made only on the basis of safety, sometimes it is economic viability, cost, etc. This is why, when a significant delay or cancellation is under the airlines’ control, we, the passengers, should be compensated, in addition to re-routings and refunds. Yes, like @Tim Dunn with Delta, I can turn any topic into a pro-air passenger rights legislation talk.
As for Lyft, I’d say, they’re still better than Uber, which jacks up rates to insane levels these days. These days, I use my silly Amex credits on Uber Eats, and just take Lyft for ride-shares (or a taxi, public transit…)
“Less safe”…and the author is an airline pilot? Eh…no! As an airline flight instructor, yes…less safe to reduce the hours. For an unrestricted ATP pilot certificate, the minimum hours is 1500. It is not that a pilot with less hours isn’t a competent pilot. It is the experience and judgement factors that make up the difference. Traveling 180 knots in a Cirrus versus 450 knots in an Airbus is a major difference. Yes, the pilot with less time can expertly “fly” the plane. But they lack the experience that only quality flight time can bring. I have set back numerous pilots who meet “min qual” because they are so far behind the jet, that they are looking at the static wicks on the rudder. I wouldn’t want to be in an airliner during an emergency where the captain is mentally “by himself” with a first officer just flying the plane. The comedian Steven Wright once said, “Experience is something you don’t get until just after you need it.”
“Less safe”…and the author is an airline pilot? Eh…no! As an airline flight instructor, yes…less safe to reduce the hours. For an unrestricted ATP pilot certificate, the minimum hours is 1500. It is not that a pilot with less hours isn’t a competent pilot. It is the experience and judgement factors that make up the difference. Traveling 180 knots in a Cirrus versus 450 knots in an Airbus is a major difference. Yes, the pilot with less time can expertly “fly” the plane. On the other hand, there are at least two people in the cockpit for a reason. One is going to fly the plane and the other is going to “watch the house” and work the strategy for down the road. That’s where experience comes into play. The more hours, the more experience. I have set back numerous pilots who meet “min qual” and then some because they are so far behind the jet, that they are looking at the static wicks on the rudder. The comedian Steven Wright once said, “Experience is something you don’t get until just after you need it.”
@Gary – LALF had a guest post by an actual pilot a couple of weeks ago that specifically refuted your assertion about the 1500 hour rule. While I think you bring up some interesting things it would be more valuable to hear you address the arguments raised in that post rather than talking past him.
Nice link about Las Vegas. It pretty much hits the nail on the head for me as well. If you’re not rich and there’s little to no value in Vegas then where’s the fun?
I’m in the industry flying with 1500 pilots. Your opinion of this is completely wrong. Even at 1500 hours these pilots are hanging onto the tail and often create more work for the captain than if he was up there alone. They are still good pilots, but 1500 is not much experience, especially depending on what type of experience that is.
There was a significant increase in the amount of safety reports filed in the aftermath of Covid when there were actually 1500 hour pilots making it to the jet cockpits. Now that hiring has slowed, the experience level has ticked back up to well over 2,000 hours and will continue to climb.
The 250 hour comparison in Europe is not accurate for a whole bunch of reason and again shows the authors limited knowledge about these programs and the industry in general. There are no “250” hour European pilots “flying” in the USA and there were never 250 hour pilots hired at airlines in the United States. The average mainline airline experience for the past 40 years was 4,000-6,000 hours or more. And in the 50s through the 80s pilots were hired at flight engineers and didn’t touch the actual flying controls for several months at minimum and sometime not for several years.
Gary,
While I won’t address the inaccuracies in the WSJ article here (it has several) there is NOTHING in it that argues the 1500 hour rule is making flying less safe. If anything it’s the opposite.
I get your married to your anti 1500 hour agenda but do you really need to resort to clickbait titles that totally misrepresent the facts in that pursuit?