Passengers are being squeezed by other customers of size. Large passengers who don’t fit into their seats, or spill over armrests, are encroaching on space that doesn’t belong to them.
There are basically two reasons for this:
- Americans have gotten larger We take up more space, and encroach into the space of other passengers. Critics also often point to seats having less width, but that’s not true for most domestic flights. Boeing 737s and Airbus A320 family aircraft have the same basic fuselage they always have. Airlines do tend to squeeze an extra seat in each row of widebody aircraft like Boeing 777s and Boeing 787s, however.
- Planes have gotten more full. It used to be common to have an empty middle seat next to you, because one-third of seats flew empty. That’s no longer true, as airlines have consolidated, become better at constraining capacity (and airports and air traffic control just don’t have the ability to expand as demand has grown), and so we don’t get extra room we didn’t expressly buy.
It’s generally against airline policy. Passengers are supposed to buy the amount of space that they need to fit, whether that’s a first class seat or two coach seats. Southwest Airlines is even famous for providing that extra space complimentary. However these rules are rarely enforced.
- There are fewer gate agents to be vigilant about it. Flights that aren’t full often only have a single agent to board them, and they’re responsible for customer service and boarding; gate checking bags; adjusting seat assignments; and often processing last minute standbys and upgrades. Often watching for drunk passengers slips by, while they’re expected to enforce oversized carry-on rules and basic economy rules.
- Speaking up risks on-time departures. Dealing with a contentious customer service issue like calling out someone’s weight, right at the last minute prior to departure, can delay a flight – and that’s something that the agent may get reprimanded over. There’s little benefit to the agent in enforcing a ‘customer of size’ policy. It’s far easier to offload the problem onto the passengers seated beside them.
- Cultural norms make it uncomfortable and besides the standards for exactly how large is too large can be unclear. So it really puts an agent on the spot to call out a customer like that – one who is going to complain, create trouble for the airline, and potentially even sue.
“Big Curvy Olivia” thinks it is discrimination that aircraft aisles are so narrow, and posts video of herself struggling to get through a United Airlines Polaris business class cabin. But widened aisles would mean even less room for seats!
Lol and the First Class cabin has much more space than economy pic.twitter.com/YCAh501hF3
— Ben Kew 🏌️♂️ (@ben_kew) May 18, 2023
I actually think there’s an even bigger problem here, and it’s a failure at the top levels of airline management. Airlines will sell you the amount of space that you wish to buy. Some people buy less than they need, and that imposes costs on seatmates rather than the airline. And with flights full, there’s often little that can be done (without a passenger changing flights).
Airlines make the process too hard – transaction costs are too high, when they don’t need to be! A larger passenger who wants to buy that extra seat has a hard time doing so.
- Most airlines will sell you an extra seat if you want to buy one but the process can be convoluted, agents don’t know how to sell them, and gate agents don’t always know how to save them from being taken by another passenger.
- PlusGrade sells a solution for airlines to offer extra seats for sale in the booking path. Yet airlines don’t take advantage of marketing the option, losing real revenue in the process.
- United Airlines actually makes it simple to buy an extra seat yet nobody seems to even know this is an option.
Extra Seat for “Personal Comfort”
byu/PurplestPanda inunitedairlines
Because transaction costs are too high, fewer people that should buy an extra seat buy the seat. And because it falls on gate agents and flight attendants to deal with, and they’re least-well equipped to do so, it ends up that the costs fall entirely on unrelated passengers who happen to be seated next to someone that doesn’t fit in their seat. That’s unfair, and bad business for the airline which is giving up revenue.
Some ‘plus-sized influencers’ think that airlines should just give them extra space for free, the way that Southwest has done, but that means amortizing the cost of a flight across fewer passengers and a need to generate higher revenue from each one. That’s just another form of cost-shifting – higher fares- albeit less directly than a single passenger stealing space from the passenger next to them because they don’t fit.
I do wonder, though, whether if airlines don’t solve this Ozempic will? As GLP-1 drugs mature and price comes down, they’ll become more accessible, and far fewer people will need larger seats. At the same time, that’ll save airlines fuel expense since there’s less mass to transport. But it also means an opportunity to shrink seats even further, if they can get that past FAA regulators who require airlines to meet evacuation standards. With more seats, will they be able to evacuate the aircraft in 90 seconds? Maybe if each passenger loses weight and moves faster!
In the meantime, though, the best you can do is probably complain to the Department of Transportation when airlines fail to follow their own policies requiring passengers to purchase sufficient space for themselves.
Cultural norms… that’s the key. Now that mandatory universal health insurance is a thing, where health conscious people share health costs with people who choose to eat too much and be inactive, there should be zero cultural stigma about speaking out against a “customer of size,” lol, what a euphemism.
Give it a few more years, and your BMI = ticket price.
Now that Southwest is charging for checked bags, this is an inevitability.
https://brothke.medium.com/your-bmi-is-your-ticket-price-the-next-dimension-in-airline-pricing-c0592c755a8f?sk=6d63de598dbaa96540b9f3fc9255e571
Gary, you’ve done a decent job here of ‘threading the needle’ on what *should be* a (rare) nonpartisan topic. Reasonable personal space while traveling is a form of human dignity.
Yes, ‘oversized’ passengers are reasonably expected to purchase enough space for themselves. The rest of us don’t have to judge them for ‘why’ they are that way–though, yes, as Gary suggested, there are more ways they can change that if they wish, can afford to (GLP-1, etc.).
Yes, airlines are supposed to enforce their own rules, on this topic and others. For instance, an airline should not oversell a flight, then take back someone’s ‘second’ seat, causing problems.
Importantly, I agree with Gary’s closing statement that the best we can do as passengers for now is to submit formal complaints to the US DOT “when airlines fail to follow their own policies requiring passengers to purchase sufficient space for themselves.”
It’s not perfect, but it’s the best we got, other than to complain on social media, which is often just vindictive and ineffective. This is less about the ‘performative outrage’–and more about logistics and policies. But, if anyone wants to tango… I’m always ready to dance!
If I choose to buy two seats for comfort, do I get twice the miles and pqp? Seems only fair.
They have bag sizers at the gate, why not passenger sizers?
Wider seats would solve two problems. More space for “passengers of size” and it would lead to higher ticket prices, thinning out the herd of crazies.
@SteveH. You absolutely should, but I bet you don’t.
A 500 pound woman was in business class yesterday
They had to drive her around and use special equipment to raise and lower her into her seat
As sad as I felt for her I was thrilled to be in coach and so glad I didn’t pay the extra
to upgrade.She couldn’t leave the aircraft till they brought in the equipment and everyone left the plane.Im not sure she could have possibly fit in economy
The tray table couldn’t come town to eat dinner
so she put her tray on her stomach and ate off of that
Seems like it would be very uncomfortable
The worst thing is one’s future health ramifications scary 🙁
Knees heart etc
I am quite large. Very wide across the shoulders. 193cm tall (6′-4′)
Instead of buying 2 coach seats I buy 1st class or international business. I also travel a LOT.
Seldom do I see anyone else’s head sticking up over the seat backs.
I do take Ozempic for my diabetes. strangely it hasn’t altered the width of my shoulders, the length of my torso or legs or even my weight.
So I found my way of having enough space. pay the price or stop whining. I understand this is hard for many people but if you are large it’s worth looking into the higher cost seats. if you hunt for bargains you can find deals. Start shopping early. Be sure to stay with a main line airline (I use Delta) become a member of their club. Always book miles. Maybe use their credit card and Maybe, just maybe you can pay for the better cabin with miles. Makes everyone’s life easier.
And you can look down your nose at all the Karens chugging down the aisles hauling their broad behinds along through the tighter and tighter spaces.
It’s the best way to deal with the space problem. Let the small people stay in the back.
I often wonder how much it would increase aircraft cost if the manufacturers increased the width of narrow body aircraft by 8 inches. This could allow the aisle to be two inches wider and add an inch to each of the 6 seats in a row. I’m sure this aircraft would be very appealing to the flying public.
I’d speak up. Thinking about some of the recent emergencies do you want to try to get around this guy in order to survive?
Much like with freight, certain items should only be shipped via ground transportation.
@JimC2
“Now that mandatory universal health insurance is a thing,”
What are you smoking, and why aren’t you sharing? There isn’t anything close to universal health insurance in America.
8% of the country has no insurance, and 23% of the country doesn’t have enough insurance. 31% of the country not being able to afford healthcare is the exact opposite of universal health insurance.
Seriously, either pass that over, or shut up.
Coach seats are insanely small these days, for sure. But the notion that we should widen aircraft aisles to accommodate a few VERY oversized people is ludicrous.
If the airline offers a passenger an extension seat belt that should be an indication that passenger does not fit in a standard seat and should not be move to an exit row. They should have to purchase a second seat or a seat in first class.
The discrimination is towards the passenger that loses half their seat not the oversized one.
These fatties should be made to purchase an extra seat. What type of person would want to infringe on another person who paid for their seat. It is so easy to stay healthy and skinny. Tons of You Tube Videos regarding this subject. The guy in the middle seat should have demanded a new seat or huge compensation.
Easy solution: Livestock trailers
To help pilots learn how not to accidentally crash their aircraft when a 500-pound (226.796 kg or 35.7 stones) passenger sits down in their small plane, the FAA publishes the following essential guidance regarding weight and balance.
“The pilot should always be aware of the consequences of
overloading. An overloaded aircraft may not be able to leave
the ground, or if it does become airborne, it may exhibit
unexpected and unusually poor flight characteristics. If not
properly loaded, the initial indication of poor performance
usually takes place during takeoff.”
Read more: https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/12_phak_ch10.pdf
Fuel as we know is the biggest expense flying a commercial aircraft and weight negatively effects the fuel economy of the flight. So if someone weighs say 180lbs should they be paying the same as someone who weights 320lbs? I think not that is way you are charged a fee for overweight luggage. And don’t get me started about someone who spills over into my seat.
One stat: about 1 in 8 (16%) of all US adults are/have been on Ozempic or similar. It’s very expensive, given the cost, is it a good argument that 16% flies more? The other side: I was on a packed SW flight with a man close to the weight of the man in the picture, turned sideways, facing the left side of the plane. Embarrassment, shame, knowing everybody who saw him was probably shaking their head in some version of disgust. He wouldn’t have subjected himself to that if flying wasn’t absolutely necessary. I don’t know what the answer is, but years later I still remember that. Forcing him into that situation (no other option on SW) was cruel.
If you’re a big person then don’t expect airlines or other passengers to accommodate you due to your poor nutritional choices. If you can’t fit into your seat then buy the adjacent seat but don’t expect to get it for free or at a substantial discount because it would be rewarding you and reafirming that your bad eating habits don’t come with consequences. If that’s distasteful then either drive to your destination or don’t fly. Case closed.
Airlines lose money when parents don’t pay for their young children’s seats. My question is why aren’t they extending that same luxury to someone of size? Or automatically upgrade someone who is over 6’2″?
Seat sizing is based on an “ideal” 6 foot tall, 180 lbs man. Seat sizing has been a complaint to the FAA and airlines by passengers, including said 6 foot tall 180 lbs men for a long while now. Airlines have been forcing sardine packing with smaller seat sizes and keeping fleets under sized (especially since COVID). When a larger person is guaranteed to have the second seat they purchased available to them during the flight, I will accept the argument that larger people should be buying second seats. Because, as of right now, no airline guarantees that if someone purchases a second seat, it will not be filled by a gate agent. Complain all you want about fat people who are just wanting to fly the same as you, but know, this is a sign and symptom of a larger failure of the industry and you are just playing into it.
Just flew to/from Australia from Florida. My husband always insists on having the window seat which means I get stuck in the middle. On three different legs of the trip, a very large-sized person sat next to me on the aisle – of course, they took the armrest and spilled over into my space. With one man, I couldn’t use the remote which was on the armrest because he had fallen asleep and I didn’t want to wake him. Large-sized flyers, if you can’t fit into the seat and space, book yourself a business-class seat because next time, I’m going to alert the steward that you are encroaching on me and endangering me in case of emergency when I can’t get out.
Why not sell plus-sized seats? Slightly less than a whole extra seat?
Look at those fat slobs!! All weak people, their health issues are BECAUSE they are fat, not causing them to be fat. It’s simple, eat less, you will not put on weight if you aren’t consuming calories. Put away the twinkies and 700 calorie starbucks mochas and eat a salad! ladies if you’re fat you’re not cute, no matter what lies your friends tell you.
@Alexander Castleberry — You joke, but I think this administration is actually considering it… *gulp*
feed’em on welfare so we can pay someone else to haul that big fat whale to the Doctor, then haul it back home. then we elect those that appoint those that allow the obese to purchase unhealthy , fat foods. we house them feed them and bury them and they never work a day in their lives…. I am Damn tired of paying for people like them…
Airlines should definitely make purchasing an extra seat easier. I got one for a trip from the US to Italy, and had to call American in order to buy (not available online).
Upgrading to Premium Economy won’t help because the arms in Premium Economy are solid on each side. Good for tall folks, but not for wide folks.
Upgrading any more is more expensive.
Not everyone who needs an extra seat will get one, but making it easier could help – at least a little!
I’m tired of this. I bought a seat. That’s my area. If you need more area, buy more. Just like “Big Curvy Olivia” brought a backpack full of snacks because that little bag of pretzels wasn’t going to feed her ‘needs’.
@bill ganas — I understand your frustration, but it is a bit misplaced, sir. You are conflating a persons weight/size with socio-economic status. “Welfare” often refers to government programs that provide financial assistance and social services to those in-need, usually including food benefits, but also housing, healthcare, etc. However, just because someone is overweight or even obese does not mean that they are a ‘welfare’ recipient, or vice versa. I suspect that you follow right-wing ‘media’ and merely use ‘welfare’ as a pejorative. Classic. You might as well call anything you don’t like a ‘Democrat’ in that case. Again, that would also be absurd.
What size seat does trump need?
@1990- Talk about a wrong number. No one said if you are overweight or even obese that they are a welfare recipient. Government Welfare ALWAYS refers to assistance, not often. Stop putting words in peoples mouth. It’s rude.
@Meagan Leigh — If you take Him at his word, He’s 6’3 and just 215 lbs; though I bet He prefers a ‘throne’ seat, regardless of which aircraft He’s on, whether it’s His 757 or Air Force One. The kids (Jr. and Eric, at least) seem to still fly commercial, First, according to social media posts. Then again, so does Senator Sanders, according to some of Gary’s previous posts. Now, how’s that for a call-back? @L737??
Coach seats on a standard narrow body (e.g. 737 or A320) are the same size as 50 years ago. I’m tired of everyone saying the seats are smaller.
Universal healthcare did not exist 50 years ago either. Yet obesity was rare. You can’t blame the current situation on healthcare.
@not 1990 — Nice comment and name.
“Believe” whatever you wish, sir or madam, but @bill ganas did in-fact make that suggestion (negatively conflating welfare and obesity) above.
If you wish to villainize people on government assistance, I urge you to reconsider. Those programs are part of our social safety net, and they are an asset to any modern society.
As always, feel free to ignore or engage on here. I’m usually happy to oblige.
See, this would work if airlines actually agreed that a seat was what they were selling you.
The problem is that at various times convenient to them, airlines have argued that according to the contact of carriage, what they’re selling you is not a seat on a plane, but transportation from point A to point B. This has allowed flight attendants on oversold flights to take away someone’s extra seat (to seat another person) without compensation in several instances.
Why would anyone buy an extra seat in that case? In fact, if the airline’s argument is correct, then the influencers have a point here – the airline isn’t fulfilling its contractual obligation of transporting you safely from A to B if they don’t give an extra seat for free under this circumstance.
Of course, getting them to admit that they’re actually selling a seat on a plane has other consequences.
“Plus size” = should be one of the classifications in the seating chart when choosing a seat.
Airlines should provide the miles and included luggage allotments with extra seat purchases along with a guarantee that they will not try to take the seat back (which they currently can do, only providing a refund for the extra seat) and will provide the same arrangements on the replacement flight if they have to deny flying to the customer. Charging full price for the seat and not doing those things is theft and it has happened to me (the miles and luggage parts.) Fortunately some airlines, such as Singapore Airlines, charge a reduced price for the extra seat.
What is interesting is that even with 41.9% obesity rate shown in that graph, airlines have tried to squeeze more people into a cabin instead of make things more comfortable. They are not trying to accommodate 90% of the flying public in their coach seats or even 80%. How about a section of 3 and 2 coach seating (like the A220) for the B737 or Airbus equivalent with seats about 3 inches wider and with those seats costing 20% more than the regular coach seats. Put it in the back of the airplane and see if it fills up and how fast it fills. I would bet larger people would try to get those seats but some would be bought by smaller people who want extra width seats without the tremendous bump in prices for premium seats.
@SteveH, @Thing 1 — I agree! Makes sense me…
@1990 — Solid call-back, I do recall quite a spirited debate on what “socialism” is. ?Also, congrats! Another username playing off your name, when you know you’ve made it on the internet 😀
@nunya
All major hospitals in the US will not turn away patients because they cannot pay.
Homeless bums can, will, and do receive hospital treatment. Homeless bums can, will, and do receive first responder care. The healthcare providers know that they will never be reimbursed by these patients, but they care for them, and pass the costs on to the rest of us. In addition to what I mentioned, people with no income are offered a multitude of taxpayer-subsidized plans, I believe Medicaid or some such nonsense is the major one. All of that is healthcare, and that counts as universal healthcare.
Why don’t you follow your own advice, since you told another commenter to shut up? (Your words). I dont normally write that to strangers, but you are clearly fine with that manner of interaction.
I wouldn’t at all be surprised if there’s a lot of overlap between “customers of size” and people who get magically healed by Jetway Jesus.
Out of curiosity I looked up the weight of airplane seat belt webbing material. It came in at 63.3g/m. Adding 10cm (about 4 inches) to the seatbelt webbing would be enough so most who needed a seatbelt extension would no longer need one. There are 10 x 10cm pieces in a meter so each additional webbing piece would weigh 6.33g or about 1/4 ounce. One kilogram (about 2.2 pounds) of material would allow for 1000/6.33 equal 157.98 of extended length seatbelts. Every seatbelt in a single aisle airplane could be a longer version for only around a kilogram of extra weight. Maybe double that for twin aisle airplanes. The question is is why are seatbelts made shorter requiring some passengers to have to ask for an extender? Is it to discourage larger people from flying? This sounds like something I would do if I wanted to be passive-aggressive.
*sigh* It’s so easy to otherize people for being different isn’t it?
Now be honest, as soon as you read those words an image popped into your head and you thought you knew exactly who I was right? There is an objective lesson here that I hope you will see.
I am not, nor have I ever been, obese. I do not know anyone who is obese. I absolutely abhor everything about DEI and the ideology that drives it. I also disagree with the influencers who present a radical ideology that is just as unreasonable as your own. If you see any issue as a simple binary choice of a right or wrong then rest assured you are almost certainly wrong. Worse still, you’ll only be pissing into the wind and wondering why you got wet.
I’m not going to point out all of the ways your perspective is wrong here, I’ll just point out two and hope it inspires you to actively challenge your assumptions here:
1: Do you really know what an “obese” person with a BMI of 30 looks like? Go check out official weigh in data from a weight lifting contest and let me know if those people are what you had in mind. Perhaps your chart isnt saying what you thought it did.
2: There are many people who, by no choice of their own, will invade into your space and/or inconvenience your just as much as an “obese” person. And who should decide what arbitrary amount of space should be acceptable, and who gets double charged? Whatever you decide, consider the ramifications. Tall? Broad shoulders? Scoliosis? Should we charge a person in a wheel chair for the extra oversized checked item and all of time they waste during boarding? If you have a heart attack in the terminal, can the airline just drop you in a dumpster and let you die? Do you really want to live in a world where we have no obligations to each other, no humanity?
Personally, I am happy to err on the side of accommodating body size. Yea, we maybe some people get more than they deserve but when is that not the case in life? If they want to go and pack on 600lbs for that awesome free seat perk…who cares? Let Darwin deal with it. I’m more concerned about the potential and precedent of doing wrong by someone who does genuinely need and deserve it.
My shoulders are wider than modern airplane seats, and funny enough Ozempic doesn’t change your bone structure. Maybe they should stop making unreasonably narrow seats if they want humans to fit in them, the current seats are about the proper width for dogs.
I find it hilarious that the author blames it all on weight despite being a rather pudgy boy himself.
This happened to me one time. I was on a 5-hour flight and went to get in my seat and about 2/3 of it was taken up by a passenger of size. I went to the flight attendant and told her someone was in my seat. She came and looked and told me to just take my seat. I told her if she could show me how I could fit in there by sitting there herself then I’d be happy to sit there. She argued with me, but I stood my ground. They ended up putting me on the next flight in first class. While I am sympathetic, I refuse to be a parenthese for 5 hours.
Hogs shouldn’t fly. 300+ lb you should have to pay triple. Everyone should be weighed before getting on the plane. If you are over the limit, a flashing alarm with circus music blares and airport security has the pigssenger pay for inconveniencing the normal humans on the flight, or face DIRE consequences.
RE: Seat and aisle width . . . you don’t build a chapel based on Easter attendance.
Two years ago, I was flying from Rome, Italy to Florida. The first leg of the trip was 8 hours. A passenger of normal size had the seat next to me (I’m 5’9″ 145 lbs.) and I was in the window seat. That passenger stands up before the flight takes off and asks a guy in back of us if he will change seats so he can sit with a friend. The guy agrees and moves into the seat next to me. For eight hours, I was pressed into the side of my seat with my head against the window. My new seat mate was HUGE. I asked the American Airlines flight attendant if there was another seat available and she said I could not change my seat. It was the most miserable eight hours I have ever spent.
Let me tell you a truth. The airlines don’t care. Write that down so you remember it. AA could have done something before this guy boarded and they didn’t. This is what it is like to travel by air today. My first airplane flight was in 1966. Until the last twenty it was never a bad experience.
Oh yeah, “Americans are fat.”
I’ve had this happen to me once, and the dude was a German. Lots of people are fat. From all over.
Happily the flight was short, less than an hour and a half, domestic in Thailand. A turboprop 2-2 configuration. I’m in the aisle, seat next to me is empty. Plane seems full and about to leave. Then this huge German guy comes on and he’s got the window seat next to me. He immediately pulls up the armrest between us and sits. Not only is he intruding into my space, he’s got some enormous wallet in his cargo pocket that intrudes even farther. I say that I want the armrest down. He complies. That helps a little. It was still a very uncomfortable flight. Oh, and as soon as he sits, he starts coughing and keeps coughing throughout the flight. So I sort of skew my body towards the aisle as much as I can.
Good times.