An aggressive passenger in the American Airlines forum on Reddit declares that (1) passengers should not recline their seats, and (2) seats should not recline.
If you recline your seat you are diminishing the space that the passenger behind you has. I don’t know why planes even have the option.
…Don’t recline. Don’t. Just don’t. ..When you recline your seat, what..do you think happens to the person behind you??
Calling seat recliners “entitled,” the passenger says that if a passenger in front of them reclines they’ll “tug on” their seat and “do whatever I can to make yo[ur] trip miserable.”
And since this is a commonly-held view, it seems to be one worth correcting.
- Seat recline is important for passengers on long flights with poorly-padded seats. Recline works to distribute passenger weight and reduce back stress.
- Reclining is also a passenger’s right when it’s a feature of your seat. A passenger controls their own seat. Airlines ban the Knee Defender device, which prevents recline – a device was designed to stop reclining. While their interest is prevent damage to the seat, they do not allow the passenger seated behind to interfere with the recline function.
- If you want to ensure that the passenger in front of you cannot recline, get a bulkhead seat – or fly Spirit Airlines or Frontier. Their seats don’t recline.
That said, there is an etiquette to exercising your right to recline. Don’t recline during mealtime. Try not to recline unless it serves a real purpose (if it doesn’t actually benefit your comfort, don’t recline). And recline slowly, don’t slam your seat into the person’s laptop behind you.
If you don’t want the passenger in front of you to recline, politely ask them not to. And if they want to recline and you don’t want them to, consider whether it’s worth your while to make not reclining worth their while.
Usually I want to work. I can sometimes do that with Southwest Airlines’ seat pitch, they give 1-2 more inches of legroom than most airlines do in their regular coach seats. And I can generally work in extra legroom coach. But I’m going to have a hard time using my laptop in coach with 30 inches between seats. If the passenger in front of you reclines, all bets are off. Politely ask them if you might work for a bit before they recline, offer to buy them a cocktail, or even to switch seats with them. Or if it’s valuable to you, then offer a small amount of cash.
If I was working on a flight, I would ask the person in front of me to tell me before they recline so I can move my laptop. Otherwise…I’ve reclined on LONG flights, I typically don’t on shorter ones, and I don’t recline that far when I do.
But I do think it’s good manners to check behind you before reclining, make sure the person isn’t eating (not everyone who brings their own food eats it during “meal service”), working with a laptop, etc.
People who reclined are objectively entitled. They are entitled to the recline function within common sense limits and in accordance with flight crew instructions.
There is nothing wrong per se with entitlement.
Reddit is full of losers.
I’ve flown a good deal more than most in the past 30 years, but I’ve only experienced the hard line, no recline experience for myself for the first time a few days ago.
After being de-boarded by American after sitting on the ground for two hours, spending 15 hours in Miami waiting for the flight to re-board, then another 90 minute ground delay and finally – finally! – taking off for a 9 hour flight to Brazil, the pilot turned off the seat belt sign, and I reclined my seat. Immediately there was a tap-tap-tap on my seat, and an older woman in a mask telling me “put your seat up.” I asked her if she wanted me to put my seat up temporarily, or the entire flight, in which case I suggested we speak to the cabin crew about one of us changing seats, there being an empty seat at the bulkhead with nobody to recline in front of her. She mumbled something under her mask which I couldn’t understand and which I asked her to repeat, but she didn’t further engage. I got several dirty looks from her and her family after that – which troubled me not at all – but I reclined my seat as a I pleased as is the universal convention as understood by nearly everybody who has ever flown anywhere.
Where have people gotten this crazy idea that reclining is the prerogative of the person behind you?
The button is yours to use. If it bothers you buy an extra legroom seat.
You mention that airlines have banned the Knee Defender. Not true. It’s an illegal modification per Title 14 CFR to install such a device on any aircraft seat without proper approval. i.e. a properly designed and approved engineering order.
There are a lot more things in play here than comfort. It has more to do with the raging cumulative inferiority complex that seems to have permeated today’s society in the “woke” US.
Just one old man’s opinion, mind you. The reference to Title 14 is not an opinion; it’s my job.
I can explain. Some people are raised to be overly considerate. Reclining affects the person behind you – plain and simple. Some people were raised to account for that, and even defer to the affected person in a show of virtuous politeness. These people would expect, as a way to return the favor of virtue, the affected person should say of course go ahead and recline as you please.
As you’ve figured out, being “overly considerate” is an impractical and frustrating way to go about society because not everybody adheres to the same values which leads to consternation and bitterness. It’s best if everyone agrees to a basic and simple rule.
In this case, your seat reclines. You don’t need permission. If you’re affected by somebody else’s recline, you can make a polite inquiry, but you must respect that the other person is entitled to recline.
To clarify, yes, reclining is your prerogative. But making sure it is not a particularly bad moment to recline is good manners.
At this rate airlines will soon get rid of reclining seats.
I’m a nonrev and rarely get to select my seat. Furthermore, I have scoliosis, psoriatic arthritis, and fibromyalgia. None of which are obvious, nor are they someone else’s business.
The recline option exists for a reason and i use it. I keep that in mind when the seat in front of me is reclined.
Others should do the same.
No economy class seats should be reclinable, period. I just flew coast to coast on an AA flight, on economy. At 140 lb, I am not big and yet I had to contort my body to walk out of my middle seat to the aisle, even though the seats in front were upright.
Why do airlines PRETEND (in vain, I must add) to afford their passengers comfort? Just be upfront with it and do away with reclining!
I reached my full height almost 50 years ago. I took my first flight less than 40 years ago. At that time, pitch in coach was adequate. To make extra money to enrich people in their organizations, airlines started reducing pitch, finally ending up with a situation that results with my knees being jammed into the back of the seat in front of me. Some seats recline with the seat bottom sliding forward creating a reclined back. Those are good. Some of the ones that have the back move backwards for reclining pinch my knees, causing them to hurt. Talking about getting the seats with extra room is impractical as the situation is unknown before flying some of the time and the costs are often much more. I take the paperwork out of the pocket and place it on the floor if it makes the situation worse. Often my knees are in the kidneys of the person in front. When the situation is the worse, I often get a jerk who will not compromise in front of me and the only one in the row who reclines. I choose to fly airlines that provision correctly for me and others like me. Flying an airline with surly flight attendants that has shrunk seating is not for me.
Reclining is a perk of the seat that you paid for. It is no business of anyone other than the flight crew to tell me what to do with the seat that I paid for. If you don’t want the person in front of you to recline, sit in the exit row or the bulkhead. Oh hey guess what!? Unless you’re seated in the row right in front of the exit row, your seat can recline too!
As soon as the wheels leave the land I recline all the way.
@Joe – Paying for the extra legroom seat is reasonable. Consider 40 years ago when all seats had more legroom, air fares were much higher when compared to typical household income and savings, with far fewer flight times available. That extra legroom seat is a bargain today.
While I hate it when people recline onto my knees because I’m 6’4 and where possible book seats with extra legroom, sometimes I’m stuck with everybody else in regular coach. In that case I’ll avoid reclining on anything but an overnight flight because I don’t want to inflict misery or have it inflicted on me. Even with my anti-recline views I think this person is a world class jerk.
This is a rough crowd. Having worked for a major airline for 24 years, I’ve had to ride in seats that were NOT of my choosing. Reclining seats weren’t the problem. Inconsiderate people were. Kicking the seat, yanking on the seat, loud people, parents who let their kids wipe snot on others, scream, pound on the tray table, throw food and passengers that pay for one seat and take up 2(or more).
If the seat reclines, I recline it. You don’t like it, pay for a seat with more legroom.
This is a really complicated issue and if I might say so, you have done a poor job of conveying how it works.
On short flights, in my view, airlines should remove reclining seats. They serve little purpose other than to cause conflict. As someone with very long legs, I’ve had short people recline in front of me so the seat sits on my knees, then glare at me for the rest of the flight while they bounce up and down on my knees.
On longer haul flights they are inevitable. At best people can be considerate with each other because reclining reduces the overall space available to passengers (think about the volume of space available when seats recline).
And even in premium cabins it’s an issue – I flew on a first class international reclining flight with a short redeye so I reclined immediately at 10,000ft. The passenger behind me was incensed.
The best way we can get an improvement though is if airlines remove reclining seats from short haul. They only cause conflict.
The airlines want you to be VERY upset if someone in coach reclines — so you will fork over massive ticket upgrade to fly in their ever more luxurious “business” or “first” classes.
But those new cutesy areas in front of the planes do not hold a candle to the normal coach from years ago when the 747 was first introduced. And the First class upstairs in that plane — OMG.
People that allege persons who recline their seat are entitled are “projecting” their entitlement.
The seat is designed to recline, so that it’s a bit more comfortable. I don’t care how seats were 40 years ago.
My travels often include 16 hours of flying time crossing 10 time-zones. I need as much sleep as possible to ameliorate jetlag.
I make sure the person behind me isn’t eating (has food tray open). I gently inform them I’m going to recline my seat, thereby ensuring they don’t get injured. That said, if the jerk who wrote this threatening article is behind me, I’ll make sure I’ll fart every 10 minutes… just kidding. 😉
Could we just cut to the chase. The FAA needs to mandate a minimum seat pitch, and it needs to be reasonable. If airlines want to significantly increase ticket costs, allow foreign carriers to complete on domestic routes, that will drive the ticket prices right back down. If I want to fly like a sardine, I could take Ryanair instead of American and save half the ticket cost.
I think we’re all missing the point here. This isn’t about a passenger’s right to recline or not recline, this is really about what the airlines have done to seating. It is the airlines who have removed every last bit of personal space in search of cramming more seats (and more paying passengers) onto their planes. The airlines have created these conditions, which are guaranteed to tax even the most even-tempered passenger.
None of this will be solved until the airlines are forced to restore the dignity of their passengers, and provide truly human scaled seating and space between rows.
I write this as a multi-million mile business traveler, who is on an airplane two to four times a week. We’re looking at the wrong target, folks. The problem is the airlines, not the poor passengers who are squeezed into incredibly tight, uncomfortable seats.
With how much I pay for my ticket these days: I’m reclining if I feel that I need/want to. I never do during takeoff/ascent, during mealtime, or during landing. I do it slowly, and usually not the full amount. But even of someone asked me, offered me a cocktail, or slipped me $20: I’M RECLINING IF I NEED TO FOR MY PERSONAL COMFORT. The seats cost so much these days, I gave the right to. The people behind me can also recline to gain back the 2 inches. Lastly, I am 6 foot 8 inches tall. In economy or on many international flights, the seat is pushing into my kneecaps whether it’s reclined or not. I’ve never asked someone else not to recline. I’ve spread my long legs or moved to the side. But they havrme the right to do it too. They paid for their seat as well, and it’s not their “fault” or frankly their problem that I’m a tall giant. This person on the reddit can GTH. I’d like to see them pester me on an expensive flight for any amount of time beyond 5 seconds.
I am 6’4″ tall. My knees press against the back of the seat in front of me if it is not reclined.
If the seat reclines, it will break my kneecaps and force an emergency landing because I will need medical attention – if I ever want to walk again.
Unfortunately, airlines do not prioritize bulkhead and emergency row seats for people too tall to fit in the seats. So that solution doesn’t work. I politely ask people in front of me not to recline. So far, no emergency landings.
But saying that passengers have the right to recline is giving people permission to permanently injure passengers.
Doug you’re right they sell one set of area for two people. I will say for all of the uneducated clowns on here. If you intrude on someone’s space that’s called assault. Please keep espousing. I can assure you as a lawyer this has been settled many times. Just not in public.
Recline is obviously your choice and you should do it if you’d like. That said I flew an AA a320neo in Oasis again in first this week and the recline left nearly no room.
Reddit is full of whiney losers so this seems perfectly on-brand.
I’ll keep flying business class and reclining plenty.
That guy is 100% correct. Reclining your seat in economy is evil. I’ve been injured (bruised knees) because an idiot in front of me decided to recline.
You are basically invading the space of the person behind you, let alone that you might injure the person behind you by reclining.
Economy seats are pitched narrowly enough, you don’t have to make life miserable for the person behind you by reclining, and airlines should either increase seat pitch or remove that feature from their seats.
A world of wimps and complainers. Just suck it up. It’s not a big deal, either way.
Never recline and never complain about a recline.
To all the tall people moaning about their long legs: tilt your legs sideways. My father is 6’4″, my husband is 6′ 5″, and my brother clocks in at 6’6″. They all know how to turn a bit sideways to ease their legs in. Of course, they are all three fit unlike most Americans. I suppose the moaners are too overweight to sit a bit sideways in their seat and angle their legs.
At 6’2″ on AA you get about an inch of recline before my knees are in the way and end up blocking your further recline. As someone who never reclines I’m willing to give you the inch but you’re not taking a mile out of my space.
@Joe says: “As soon as the wheels leave the land I recline all the way.”
And this is the kind of douchebaggery that leads to brawls. If I were seated behind you, I’d make it my assignment for the flight to make your experience a living hell.
I’ve been a flight attendant in the US for 23 years. First, anyone initiating conflict (by making someone’s flight a living hell for reclining) is just asking to be met by security at the arrival gate and having the rest of your itinerary canceled (at best) and getting arrested (at worst if you forced an unscheduled landing). Behaving badly on the passenger in front of you for reclining is a BAD IDEA.
Those of you being upset about the seat in front of you being reclined are upset with the wrong party. Use your collective voices and demand that airlines stop cramming seats onto the aircraft. The fight needs to be very public and involve your members of Congress in NUMBERS. Until it is a publicly humiliating campaign to the airlines, they won’t stop finding more ways to cram seats into their jets. Some people have legitimate medical needs to redistribute their weight. Airlines like Frontier and Spirit have their partial reclines permanently built into seats that otherwise don’t recline at all. Fly them if the issue is that important to you,
One person suggested removing recline on short flights. That’s not how aircraft utilization works. An aircraft capable of flying for 7 hours may be flying a 30 minute flight on its next leg. If we limited aircraft to time spent in the air based on recline ability, airline schedules would be slashed and the few flights operating would become as expensive as hell. That’s not a practical solution.
Finally; to the idiot who claims this is a result of the “woke” movement, just stop. “Woke” has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. Being “woke” simply means that you’re aware of the realities suffered by underrepresented people within our society. Nothing more. People seriously need to stop misappropriating words they have no idea what it actually means and applying it to situations that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with social injustice by class or race… like this airline seat back recline issue!
Since the airlines have moved the seats a lot closer together and for the most part not changed the seats, it is no longer acceptable nor polite to recline a seat in this situation, particularly not on short haul flights. To have a thought that it is your “right” to bash the knees of someone who is 6’2 and just claim they should “buy another seat” is absurd. You can’t always buy another seat. I don’t recline mine, I won’t do that to someone else, whether I can or not. The airlines should not be offering seats that recline in this manner, but in fact they do. Just because you can doesn’t make it right. A realistic look at the situation and what changed is in order, and although one can “blame it on the airlines” that doesn’t help when you are crushing someone else’s knees. I see a lot of commenters here whom I would not want to be sitting behind.
I would say it is definitely the airlines that deserve our ire- they have reduced pitch and the comfort of each seat so much that you either recline to help your back and butt but then the person behind you is crunched or has to recline, or you don’t recline and you get to be uncomfortable in a seat you paid for… So they’ve left it up to paying passengers to duke it out as to who gets to be comfortable or not. It is that simple. Fly airlines that have better pitch if this bothers you so much- or lobby in some way for a minimum pitch.
For those of you making ridiculous statements like – I can’t book extra legroom, or it’s unknown re bulkhead seats ahead of time- I direct you to Seat Guru to find out which seats are bulkhead or have extra room or are near bathrooms etc. I’d also add that paying an extra $20-$50 even $100 a ticket to select a seat ahead of time that accommodates your height is the price you pay to GUARANTEE no one reclines in front of you and not have to argue with the person in front of you. The reality if you CHOOSE not to pay that extra amount AND choose not to fly an airline with decent pitch is that most airlines make seat pitch too low (30″) and make seats that are uncomfortable for more than a few hours without reclining, so people are most likely going to recline. You have choices. Don’t get mad at another paying passenger because you didn’t choose your seat or airline more wisely. It’s not a right, it’s a choice to travel by plane so don’t get all “you are an elitist” on other people when they tell you to buy an extra legroom seat when it’s the airlines that have created this issue.
Oh and all the nostalgia lovers who claim the planes were so much better before- “According to a study by Compass Lexecon, commissioned by Airlines for America, the average flight from L.A. to Boston in 1941 was worth $4,539.24 per person in today’s money, and it would have taken 15 hours and 15 minutes with 12 stops along the way. By comparison, a nonstop flight in 2015 would cost $480.89 and take only six hours. Thanks to intensifying low-cost competition, we can find airfares as cheap as $283 today.” From Travel and Leisure. So yeah, seats were nicer and food was better but prices were WAY higher. And more recently- According to the Wall Street Journal, the average round trip domestic ticket in 1980 cost $592.55. The average cost in 2010 was $337.97. So just pay the extra $100 and get the legroom you would have gotten in 1980. I can’t help you with the meal service though.
Airline seats are so poorly designed for comfort. They are concave at the lower back where they should be convex or have support. I am in discomfort within minutes of sitting because of back pain. I take extra OTC pain meds before each flight, try to avoid reclining, and bring a small pillow with me. That discomfort turns to pain fairly quickly. On longer flights I recline. The difference is night and day.
Your right to recline end where my knees begin.
Unless you live under a rock, you know the seats recline…and yet you purchased a ticket…and now throw a tantrum.
Me: recline, good night.
I loathe anyone who reclines their seat if I have to sit behind them. 99% of the time I reserve a bulkhead seat and on the rare occasion that I don’t and the person in front reclines, I aim all the air conditioning vents at their heads and turn them on full blast. If they can control their seat, I can control my air conditioning vents.
You are entitled to walk up to anyone and call them an asshole, but you might not like the response. If you recline into my knees like an entitled pos you won’t like the response. Airlines should just either remove declining or take pitch back to where it was.
If you’re going to recline your seat into MY space, you’re going to end up like Carlo Rizzi.
As soon as the aircraft rotates, my seat is going back. I paid for it.
Contrary to those who “claim” to work in Title 14 environments and state that the use of “knee defender” is in violation of Title 14 should get a new job, as they are flat wrong. The FAA has ruled specifically on this issue way back in 2014 that “… use of knee defender does not violate FAA regulations unless an individual uses the device against the express instructions of the flight crew”.
The person who thinks the person in front “had better not recline” really has an issue with the airline and not the person in the seat in front. If my seat reclines and I want to recline, I’m going to recline. If that person doesn’t like it, then in the future she can either fly first class or take the train. If she sat behind me and tried to make me miserable, I guarantee that I will win that battle to.
I am 5’0”. As soon as we reach flying altitude, I check around behind me, and then I recline just a little bit. I hurt my back 49 years ago, and have had chronic back pain ever since. It takes just a little recline to take the pressure off my back. If I could give you some of my knee space, I would, but I can not. Please don’t get nasty with me. Keep in mind that people who recline aren’t all being “entitled” and rude. For some people, it helps lesson pain.
I have a bad back. So I would tell the person behind me to recline also . Problem Fixed
If you don’t want the person in front of you to recline, then buy a Bulkhead seat. Problem Fixed!
AA platinum plus and knee defender owner & use agrees 100% with don’t recline
I’m not flying with ANYONE’S head in my lap or my knees up to my stomach. If you are in front of me and try to recline, it ain’t happening
I have to recline. I bought first class for that reason. I have spinal stenosis and get shits in my back and I also have three cut nerves and a disease that ruins my cartilage. So yeah I need to recline not to get spasms. If anyone had an issue with that it’s their problem. Not entitled just I’ll trying to be comfortable!