Australian labor law is insane. The government has ordered Virgin Australia to reinstate a flight attendant who was fired for napping on the job; watching a movie inflight; showing up late to work and violating uniform standards; and taking food meant for passengers. According to the government the decision to fire her was “harsh, unjust and unreasonable.”
On one flight where she was training and being paid to observe service flow and duties of other crew she sat in the last row of the aircraft and watched a movie, “fell asleep and refused to return to a crew seat before the aircraft landed.” In her defense she claimed she didn’t need the training despite having been off from work for months due to the pandemic. She denied the allegation of her colleagues that she took food meant for passengers with her off the aircraft – she claimed that everything she took she ate on board.
The workforce commission faulted her for refusing to participate in re-training – but still ruled the airline had to take her back starting next month.
She wasn’t awarded back wages, which is surprising since six years ago a Qantas flight attendant was awarded about AU$33,000 because the government ruled it was unfair for him to be dismissed after stealing alcohol and lying about it. The man was a veritable Hunter S. Thompson, found with “a can and a bottle of beer in his jacket, two 50ml bottles of vodka in his trousers and a 50ml bottle of gin in his bag.” He claimed not to know how the beer in his jacket and vodka in his pants got there.
So what does it actually take to get fired from an airline in Australia?
- In 2019 a 41 year veteran of Qantas lost his engineering job after two women complained about him watching porn on his company-issued iPad. His excuse? He must have momentarily dozed off and the porn just came on without his realizing it.
In other words, the man’s defense – that he brought to the country’s Fair Work Commission to dispute his firing – was that he was sleeping on the job. After 3 hearings over 9 months, the government upheld the dismissal.
- That same year the workforce commission upheld the dismissal of a flight attendant who showed up drunk to work after 14 cocktails, but claimed he shouldn’t be held responsible because he was tempted by a bar’s drink specials and because he followed the airline’s instructions to fly home rather than working his assigned flight after being hospitalized.
- And in 2018 Qantas successfully fired a flight attendant who stole alcohol from the flight, got drunk while on the job, and lied about it. Though the government suggested merely drinking on the job wouldn’t have been enough. The crewmember claimed she bought the alcohol herself at duty free, that she continued working drunk ‘to avoid letting down her colleagues,’ and that firing was disproportionate to the offense.
One of the last things I’ve ever wanted in professional life is to be a California employer. I’ve had to fill out insurance applications at work that ask as a standalone question, “do you have any employees based in California?”
I lived in California as a teenager and my family was in the car business there. A mechanic in their repair shop once cheated on his wife. She confronted him when she learned he’d gotten an STD. So he went full on Shaggy Defense claiming to have gotten it at work – from a spider bite while fixing a car.
It did not matter that’s not how STDs work (they’re called sexually transmitted for a reason). Since he was fully committed to the workplace injury story with his wife, he had to go through with applying for workers comp. Since it was California.. he got it.
It turns out my working model for what never to do in life was too provincial. I don’t ever want to be an Australian employer either.
I once heard the writer Tom Wolfe say that the greatest change since he was a child was the disappearance of public shame when someone was caught lying or cheating. He was thinking of politicians, but the same may well be true in all occupations.
Democrat mentality on the Rampage.
Socialism doesn’t work. Get woke go broke.
@drrichard — As a ’90s kid, the biggest change since MY childhood — other than egotism and one-upping each other 😉 — is the vilification of opposing political views as deplorable moral character. Thanks, HRC, for stoking the flames on that one. My earliest memories — and, mind you, I grew up in the bluest of blue cities — were that opposing views were simply different. Weird and icky, sure. This is back when even Democrats opposed gay marriage, natch. But, I never heard a Democrat or Republican claim that their political opposite was a bad person morally. Even outright racist views were accepted. Because I attended a diverse public school, it was not uncommon for a kid of race A to mock an entire race B, and of course the teachers admonished that, but there was never any suggestion that the racists should be expelled from school or even given a time-out. Mockery that would be considered blatant racism today, whether likening Black people to monkeys, or stretching eyelids to mock Asians, was seen as simply impolite. Which, obviously it is. But, a condemnation of fundamental moral character, it was not.
When one side sees the other as evil incarnate, instead of different, then society cannot progress. Worse, the fallacies of “silence is violence” and “moderates are just ashamed to be conservative” — both actual ideas I have heard in my modern day life as a resident of an overwhelmingly progressive metropolitan area — then America is done for.
And you know what, good riddance. America had its moment as a shining “city on a hill” and land of opportunity. I would hesitate to claim that freedom ever really existed given the history of slavery and its modern day forms where we have an economy where the median worker is never going to be able to afford a comfortable single-family home, raise a family with 2 children, provide healthy foods and prudent healthcare, and send them off to good colleges without student debt.
As travelers, readers of this View From The Wing, we ought to know that modern America is actually extremely behind. Swaths of Europe and Asia have long outpaced us on:
— High density housing with dignity.
— Safe, clean, and timely public transportation including high-speed rail links.
— Human rights to privacy in the digital era (GDPR etc.)
— High speed internet.
— Single payer healthcare.
— Common sense speech restrictions (e.g., no Holocaust denial allowed.)
— Common sense gun restrictions.
— No former head of state that has thrown their Presidential lunch at the wall.
— No current head of state that has minimal support from their own party for reelection, yet insists on running for reelection. (Okay, I know about Boris Johnson. Do not ‘@’ me. Boris resigned.)
Thanks Olaf!
@Olaf U. Fokker-Sergei
“— Common sense gun restrictions.”. Come and take them. You personally. We’ll wait, coward.
As an Australian worker it’s great to know that someone has your back and your employers can’t fire you unless they go through the correct procedure. Read the article, the FA was “accusing Virgin Australia of unfair dismissal on the grounds that she hadn’t been afforded procedural fairness.”
At the time she fell asleep and/or watched her iPad she wasn’t part of the cabin crew she was “supernumary” = spare, sitting in the last row. Heaven knows there’s plenty of American FAs who aren’t penalized for reading magazines and iPads and ignoring the customer while they really are on the crew.
@ Gary
Another click bait and utterly biased article.
You even get the name of the Fair Work Commission wrong (it’s not the Australian Workforce Commission)!
Here is the background to IR in Australia and the role of the Fair Work Commission (the independent regulator of Commonwealth legislation) for anyone who has genuine interest in such matters:
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/ending-employment
For balance you could cite examples of where dismissal cases have been upheld in favour of the employer (it only takes a few seconds on Google) – but that would be balanced and you’re not interested in balance, only shit stirring.
You could also cite cases where there has breach of the legislation by the employer, including Qantas sacking 1683 staff members judged as unlawful by the High Court.
Ironically, in the Qantas example, its own code of conduct requires staff who have breached laws to be disciplined – is the CEO and Board under disciplinary procedure?! One doubts such.
You might challenge your own prejudiced presumptions in the case you cite above that the allegations were necessarily true. You might point out that the crew member was extensively experienced, supernumerary, that it is usual for crew on Australian fights to receive airline provided food, that it is usual for crew members to take time during the flight for themselves (even apparently on short flights), etc, etc.
You might also point out that not only do allegations need to be proven to be reasonably applied in a dismissal case, but also that employers are required to follow defined steps to effect a lawful dismissal (see link above).
That’s why it’s called the “fair” work commission! It protects the rights of both employer and employee.
That’s not to say that system is without its weaknesses – for example, inadequate policing of the underpayment of staff by a conga line of employers.
@ Olaf
“(Okay, I know about Boris Johnson. Do not ‘@’ me. Boris resigned.)”
Yeah – but, the joke is that BoJo was born in the USA (not UK) !!! He’s an American (by birth).
@platy “For balance you could cite examples of where dismissal cases have been upheld in favour of the employer”
You do realize that I do this in the article, right? Three bulleted examples in fact.
Love the commenters who obviously haven’t read the article. Or maybe they read it but don’t understand what happened. And the commenters who blame Republicans or Democrats are hilarious. Your political party doesn’t have a great deal of influence on your IQ. The concept that you can screw up at work and fired and reinstated is nauseating. What will it take for the sheep to start thinking for themselves? You screw up, you get punished. You think twice before screwing up again. You screw up and don’t get punished … next time you do something even more insane. Why not?
This is the sort of odd curiosity where the obnoxiousness of the matter is far outweighed by the fact that it makes all of the scummiest people in the world (who couldn’t be bothered to care about injustices that, you know, actually matter) absolutely lose their shit in the most hilarious ways possible.
@Olaf
You must be joking. If you think criminalizing speech is something to celebrate, you are one evil person. People are jailed in Europe for discussing Muslim rape gangs, criticizing the immigration of dangerous groups incompatible with the native European public, and saying the Bible is the word of God on all subjects, including homosexuality. You are not allowed to ask questions in Europe or say you disagree with the government approved views. Some groups in Europe are entitled to offense but native Europeans are not entitled to be offended. If you support speech control, you support slavery.
That single payer health system and free tuition sounds nice but the median household income in Western Europe is €30.000 a year compared to $62,000 in the U.S. For Eastern European countries, it is half. Your great socialist system has curtailed economic mobility. While someone in the U.S. might go from poor to rich, it is less likely in Europe. People are stuck where they are. Maybe parents can afford to have 1 kid. That’s it.
Your European regulations lead to a situation like the Berlin airport that sits empty for 13 years.
Your gas prices were $6 a gallon before Biden’s inflation and now they are $10.
Your gun control has not changed the murder rate in the U.K. which is the same as in 1966 and has never been lower in all that time because one group that’s 13% of the population kills people with knives. Normal citizens are defenseless victims of violent criminals.
The only thing Europe has better is it is a homeland for the native European people that built civilization. It has beautiful architecture. It is generally more peaceful and tranquil because most of Europe outside of the big cities does not have the pitiful demographics the U.S, Brazil, or Canada have.
The trains are much better in Europe but they are highly subsidized. It certainly is easier to operate when you don’t have demographics that have sucked every penny from public for 150 years.
Ah. Amy Fischer is back to her racist diatribes again. Don’t worry Amy, the Qpublicans will come for you one day
Spider Transmitted Disease
@747always she’s correct as always.
@ Gary
Wow -finally flushed you out…
The point being made is that you are intent on sensationalist and biased content. You choose the examples for maximum shit stirring.
In this case you start your article with the statement:
“Australian labor law is insane.”
And yet you provide absolutely no relevant information about the legislative framework, or the mechanism of its application, etc.
You conclude your article with:
“I don’t ever want to be an Australian employer either”
…having narrated the negatives of your family’s business in California…
Gary – California is not Australia.
And if you run a small business in Australia there are different “labor law” requirements to those for larger companies (for examples there is Small Business Fair Dismissal Code and attendant checklist applicable to businesses with less than 15 employees). Did you even know that? Probably not.
And be careful not to conflate workers compensation and rehabilitation issues with those relating to national workplace relations system.
Workers compensation generally comprises the employer making insurance contributions to a licensed insurance company (there are some differences for government and some specific industries, etc). Liability on a case by case basis is determined by the insurer (not the government or the employer).
The irony is that certain Australian based airlines have sought to push the legislation to the limits of its interpretation (and arguably beyond them) – mass staff sackings, protracted negotiations, etc. etc. QF was recently found to be in breach of workplace legislation.
You run the risk of maligning the Australian model without foundation and from a position of ignorance (as ever seems to be the case when you offer opinion on matters Australian). FWIW there are good reasons to challenge the model…;)
@ Amy Fisher
“If you think criminalizing speech is something to celebrate, you are one evil person.”
The evil person is the one who promulgates hatred towards others. The evil person is the one who judges others based on their religion or race. The evil person is the one who incites the prejudiced to commit acts of vilification or violence towards others based on their race or religion.
Speech should not be criminalised – but its use for hatred and violence most certainly needs to be.
Your comments expose your own ingrained prejudice, racism and simmering hatred towards others.
Which is why I am the power of logical and reasoned “speech’ to expose your ignorance and appallingly inhuman attitudes.
You would classify as an “evil person” in my world view (in fact I would user a stronger term).
“People are jailed in Europe for discussing Muslim rape gangs…”
No, Amy, people are jailed in Europe for rape regardless of their religion and race.
“…criticizing the immigration of dangerous groups incompatible with the native European public…”
Dangerous groups? Just which of these are troubling you, Amy? Americans are some of the most murderous on the planet based on homicide rates. Residents of Mississippi are 40 times more likely to be murdered than residents of Saudi Arabia.
And what do you mean by “native European public”?! European history has seen repeated waves of conquest and rebellion, movements of population and people, including from other continents and of varying faiths, colours and cultural extractions.
“…and saying the Bible is the word of God on all subjects, including homosexuality…”
But the bible was not written by some god, just people, reflecting the mores, philosophies and conventions of the times. Homosexuality has been widely practiced throughout human history. It is also commonly found in nature.
European countries are secular – they have laws to protect your freedom to exercise your personal god delusions no matter how insane your beliefs.
“You are not allowed to ask questions in Europe or say you disagree with the government approved views.”
Demonstrably not true. You don’t need to look any further than the diversity of political parties in any given European country.
“Some groups in Europe are entitled to offense but native Europeans are not entitled to be offended. If you support speech control, you support slavery.”
Again – what do you mean by “native”?
My heritage is almost certainly a mix of Dane / Viking and Celt, reflecting the history of England. How pure Celt do I have to be to satisfy your troubled perception of “native”?
My wife has Spanish heritage, but was not born in Europe – does that preclude her from being a “native” in your eyes? Her twin sister has Spanish heritage, but was not born in Europe, but has lived there (in Spain) with her Spanish-born partner of 11 years? Is she “native” or not?
Or do I need to tell you the colour of their skin and their religion before you decide?
“That single payer health system and free tuition sounds nice”
The concept is not hard, Amy. Access to education and health is not ultimately determined by the wealth of yourself or family. That’s called equality of opportunity.
Something about respecting all people by not letting disadvantaged people fester in sickness nor smart kids miss out on a lifetime of opportunity because they didn’t make school / college.
It’s also about being a decent and humane person. It always amuses me that some ardently religious folk advocate tolerance, love and compassion, but never actually apply them.
Sickeningly, poverty and low education rates go hand and hand in the USA. Mississippi has a median household income of about USD45,000 with about 19% living in poverty and less than 25% holding a bachelor’s degree.
“But the median household income in Western Europe is €30.000 a year compared to $62,000 in the U.S. For Eastern European countries, it is half. Your great socialist system has curtailed economic mobility.”
Be careful not to confuse the Europe Union with “eastern Europe”. You can incorporate elements of socialism into your political milieu balanced with elements of capitalism as many European countries have proven.
The data tell a different story to your claim, Amy. Adjusted national income per capita for the European Union has risen from USD11,586 in 1970 to USD25,325 in 2020 (data from the World Bank – adjusted net national income per capita (constant 2015 USD).
The equivalent US data are USD22,482 to USD49,436.
Do the math, Amy, BOTH the European Union and USA have enjoyed exactly the SAME net growth of 120%.
You might note that the European data include the addition of various member states over the years, which have tended to be poorer – such would deflate the European data.
“While someone in the U.S. might go from poor to rich, it is less likely in Europe.”
That’s your deluded perception. If you want to make that case, you’d need to define what you mean by rich and poor, select a relevant measure and provide some data to prove your point.
In the meantime, consider that small business failure rates in the first year are similar in both the USA and European Union at about 20%.
“People are stuck where they are”
You most certainly would be stuck in the USA if you failed to access the tertiary education merited by their talent and intelligence.
“Maybe parents can afford to have 1 kid. That’s it.”
Well, the data are interesting, Amy. In the USA total fertility rate (average number of children per woman) is going down (2.06 in 1990 to 1.77 in 2019).
How does that fit with your argument that the US is becoming richer and richer people have more children? Clue – it doesn’t.
“Your European regulations lead to a situation like the Berlin airport that sits empty for 13 years.”
And yet, the USA has over 180 labor laws!!! (remember, this blog was originally about labor laws).
“Your gas prices were $6 a gallon before Biden’s inflation and now they are $10.”
The data say you are wrong (again). The cited prices of gasoline (11 July data) were USD4.91 in the USA and USD5.02 in Europe. This is despite the US being an oil producer and the government releasing reserves.
Gasoline prices are impacted by the Russia / Ukraine situation.
The USA is living with the failed foreign policy of its previous administration, including smooching top to Putin and North Korea.
“Your gun control has not changed the murder rate in the U.K. which is the same as in 1966”
Amy, gun control in the UK was strengthened in response to the Dunblane School Massacre in 1996 (not 1966). Yes, a school massacre.
No guns = no mass shootings.
There have only been two mass shootings by a civilian in the UK since then (Cumbria June 2010 and Plymouth August 2021).
Incidentally, not even the police in the UK are routinely armed with guns (although there are armed responses units to call upon if needed).
Gun control has also all be eliminated mass shootings in other counties, such as Australia.
The homicide rate in the USA is more than SIX TIMES higher in the USA than both the UK and Australia.
By comparison to civilised countries like Australia and the UK, the USA is a murderous and uncivilised country, not to mention with mass shootings on a near daily basis.
Deal with reality and stop making excuses for gunning down school kids.
“ Normal citizens are defenseless victims of violent criminals.”
Normal citizens don’t need guns to defend themselves in communities which lack the hundreds of millions of firearms infesting the USA.
“The only thing Europe has better is it is a homeland for the native European people that built civilization”
Aside from your confusion over “native”, of course there is a long history of civilisation in Europe. There is in any country, including within indigenous cultures – the true natives.
You may not choose to recognise such, because you are evidently prejudiced towards anyone of differential collar, race or religion.
“It has beautiful architecture. It is generally more peaceful and tranquil because most of Europe outside of the big cities does not have the pitiful demographics the U.S, Brazil, or Canada have.’
Do you mean because of the nasty poor people? (The ones that never had a chance at education and healthcare, or have been disadvantaged for generations because of a shameful historical reliance on slavery of certain countries?! I mean actual slavery – not some stupid quip you make about limiting racial hatred in speech equating to slavery).
“The trains are much better in Europe but they are highly subsidized. It certainly is easier to operate when you don’t have demographics that have sucked every penny from public for 150 years.”
Clue – the US aviation industry is heavily subsidised – both the manufacturers and airlines. Most of your airports are government owned.
And just what are these demographics you express hatred towards, Amy?!
@huey judy
“Your political party doesn’t have a great deal of influence on your IQ.”
Sociopaths can have high IQs, just like some Republicans I can think of.
“The concept that you can screw up at work and fired and reinstated is nauseating.”
So, who gets to decide what constitutes a “screw up” in your world view? Solely, the employer?!
The idea that an employer can declare that you screwed up and fire you without you having employment rights is nauseating.
“What will it take for the sheep to start thinking for themselves? You screw up, you get punished.”
Who gets to decide whether you screwed up? And who gets to decide the punishment for said screw up?
“You think twice before screwing up again.”
And what if you didn’t screw up that badly, or your employer made a false allegation against you?
Do you think the employer should hold ALL of the power in the working relationship?!
“You screw up and don’t get punished … next time you do something even more insane. Why not?”
And how does the employer get punished for doing stuff ever more insane like not paying your wages correctly? For putting you into an unsafe working environment? For making you work too many hours? For not paying your private health care contributions or your pension contributions?
Here is Australia we have system to balance the interests of the employer and employee (Fair Work Commission). Yes, you can fire the employee, if they screw up, but not on the basis of an unproven allegation or for a trivial matter. If the employer and employee disagree on such matters, they can go to the Fair Work Commission to get the matter resolved according to the laws of the land.
No sheep needed…;)
I’ve never flown Quantas, but I’m curious what customer service is like on an airline where the employees know that they can get away with almost anything without being held accountable.