China is days from re-opening, and tourists are expected to depart the country in droves after three years of lockdowns. Numerous countries are instituting or considering Covid testing requirements for Chinese visitors, expecting a large number of passengers to be carrying the virus (though these same countries already have the virus present in even larger numbers). Morocco banned visitors from China outright.
Thailand’s Public Health Minister says that the country will institute a vaccine requirement for all visitors. The country had previously said that Chinese visitors wouldn’t be treated differently so a requirement for two vaccine doses will apply to everyone.
In addition, anyone traveling to Thailand that requires a Covid-19 test to return will be required to carry insurance in case they test positive and cannot leave.
These measures are entirely performative. Yet it is not clear:
- What rules will actually be instituted
- When they will actually go into effect
[2] Although it’s true the health minister talked about a plan for vaccination certificates, he didn’t say when this would be brought it.
Bloomberg picked up the phone and got this quote from the TAT: “Visitors won’t be required to produce proof of vaccination at this time”. pic.twitter.com/qhmwS2CB2r
— Richard Barrow (@RichardBarrow) January 5, 2023
People arriving from China represent a very small number of total infections in the country
It’s not as though anyone is updating vaccines against a new Chinese variant, expediting their approval, and mobilizing their distribution
Vaccines are no longer preventing infection or spread to the same degree as when they were introduced, prior to current variants. mRNA vaccines at least do reduce the likelihood of severe infection from variants. That’s not a reason to require them, since it’s a personal benefit rather than protecting others in the country.
Why are variants unlikely to FULLY evade vaccine-induced immunity?
•Vaccines are POLYCLONAL
•CD8+ T-cells covering 52 epitopes across the spike protein
•CD4+ T-cells covering 23 epitopes across the spike protein
•https://t.co/lQJ1VBUg4g— Chise 🧬🧫🦠🔬💉🥼🥽 (@sailorrooscout) January 1, 2023
If you want REAL-WORLD data on XBB look no further than Singapore. Cases were high due to the subvariant XBB, HOWEVER, 99.6% of Singapore’s VACCINATED (that’s a key word) cases are MILD or have NO symptoms. In addition, the nation has had VERY FEW deaths despite a surge in cases. pic.twitter.com/yaFmdzDMQm
— Chise 🧬🧫🦠🔬💉🥼🥽 (@sailorrooscout) January 1, 2023
A vaccinated immune system is likely to respond more quickly to the virus, shortening the duration of infection and thus infectiousness. And a fully boosted individual will be somehwat less likely to get and spread the virus.
chance of severe infection potentially leading to hospitalization or death. Even with immune-evasive variants, vaccine protection against what matters most-severe disease-remains intact. Sources:
•https://t.co/8fDR2I7rAz
•https://t.co/zM9VKhAC7J
•https://t.co/wHr93FitmS— Chise 🧬🧫🦠🔬💉🥼🥽 (@sailorrooscout) January 1, 2023
But they aren’t requiring mRNA vaccines, and they aren’t requiring boosters. Showing proof of a Chinese vaccine whose effectiveness against the original Wuhan strain was questionable at best is considered enough. Fear of an onslaught of infected people from China demands that politicians do something. And this is something.
By the way the ascendant strain of the virus in the U.S. appears less pathogenic even as it is more immune-evasive. People are going to get sick, but a smaller percentage of those will get very sick. Now isn’t the time to bring back restrictions, here or elsewhere. We should, of course, be updating vaccines for new variants (and accelerating development of new vaccines) and fast-tracking their distribution. But we are not even considering doing that.
Fake news.
“That’s not a reason to require them, since it’s a personal benefit rather than protecting others in the country.”
Covid vaccination reduces the spread of Covid-19, not just a personal benefit. It reduces the viral load so you’re spewing out less.
@derek – i literally said this. you’re quoting me out of context. i split out the *personal benefit* from vaccines, from the social benefit, in this discussion.
@Gary Leff
Some lawyers do this all the time, more than they tell the truth.
How can you tell a lawyer is lying? Their lips are moving.
Sorry Derek, but Vacinated or not there is minimal impact on covid spread.
@derek
You are one of those that misses the show?
Do us all a favor and stay indoors for the rest of your life
@derek spewing the finest baloney put out by pharma.
Bangkok Post jumps the gun. Big shocker for those that follow this paper. No effective date = no new rules in place. Cabinet doesn’t meet again until next Tue 10JAN so don’t expect any changes until then. And, as a betting man, I’d risk $ that purebloods will still be allowed in. All you jabber wackos need to slow your roll.
Lets assume that vaccination is not a factor in controlling spread.
Still, vaccinating is not purely a “personal benefit”. If you are vaccinated, the odds of you taking up constrained public health resources (if you get infected) is much less than if you are unvaccinated.
So, it makes sense for countries like TH to require vaccination as a requirement for entry. Unvaccinated people can stay home and enjoy their freedoms.
For frequent flyers, here is more information on XBB variants featuring altered antibody evasion properties deriving from their additional spike mutations to help make your travel more dangerous. With XBB variants, serum neutralization is significantly reduced, even if you had a bivalent booster. Here is a link to the December 13, 2022, article published in the medical journal Cell titled “Alarming antibody evasion properties of rising SARS-CoV-2 BQ and XBB subvariants.”
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)01531-8
“ And a fully boosted individual will be somehwat less likely to get and spread the virus.”
Any data to back that up? Doesn’t pass the smell test, that’s for sure.
Any mention of Covid vaccines of any variety but especially mRNA variety reducing the spread or severity of Covid has been proven false. There really should be a tag on every post mentioning or using the CDC/NIH/WHO as state sponsored propaganda and big pharmaceutical company propaganda. I can’t believe people still buy the pharmaceutical company line when a higher percentage of vaccinated people are hospitalized for Covid than non vaccinated and nearly everyone who has been vaccinated for Covid has gotten Covid. The vaccines don’t work but carry risks of myocarditis and sudden cardiac death. People who are unvaxxed for Covid recover quicker and with natural immunity from the specific strain.
Telling people Covid vaccines are anything but failures and dangerous is putting people at risk of harm. It makes sense for you to trust big pharmaceutical companies and the government if you “Always trust big corporations and always trust the government”. If not you should seriously reconsider your thought process and not believe what snake oil salesmen say.
More recent studies have found that Sinovac with 3 doses is highly protective against Omicron as tested in Hong Kong (not tested against XBB) against severe disease (88%) and death (up to 93%) in age 60+. The study wasn’t perfect, as the length of time after the test was small. Sinovac was never particularly good at was preventing infection, while mRNA was quite good at preventing infection from the original strain. None of the vaccines are very good at preventing infections. The initial view of Sinovac was distorted by it’s less effective disease prevention, and it appears to be about as good as other vaccines against recent strains, so it’s time to stop bashing the Chinese vaccines as inferior.
Yes, the data comes from Sinovac itself, so there is some possibility that China has distorted results, but not all of the studies were performed in China:
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281310.shtml
What about reduced viral load do people not get?
Vaccination reduces the viral load so they spew out fewer viruses. I know someone that took a rapid antigen test, was vaccinated but weakly positive but the guy’s wife was an anti-vaxxer, only got the initial 2 shots and was strongly positive even before the 15 minute incubation time was up.
To COVID Deniers: how can you keep being so dense after watching exhibit A, China? Then again, you are probably also “Election Deniers” who still believe that TFG won the 2020 election by a landslide but it was stolen from him…
Vaccines are IRREFUTABLY lowering the proportion of people ending up in a hospitals so it’s pretty smart for Thailand to keep beds free for sick Thais instead of seeing them being filled by unvaccinated foreigners. How is this controversial?
Spread has ZERO to do with this, and vaccines were never developed for spread reduction, although it happened to be a nice side effect before new evasive variants showed up.
Excellent post, Dr Westbrook. Basically, most everything Gary wrote in this post is wrong. The experimental gene therapies are an abject failure and the evidence is irrefutable. A recent study from Germany shows the jabs have extended the pandemic and led to immune system failure. They are clearly not “safe and effective”.
Funny discussion.
Everybody believes what he believes even if there is no factual evidence.
Please just don’t post whatever you believe, but also give us the backup like studies etc.
Otherwise any post is pretty useless.
@ Bernhard
“but also give us the backup like studies etc.”
I have repeatedly provided the scientific / medical references on this very website – certain folk herein refuse to read the original science even when the links are proved for them, over and over and over.
One more time – “pubmed” is the go-to search engine for the original articles untarnished by political position (read right wing dumbnuts), people like James who wear their nappies on their face, or otherwise covidiot and biased articles which misrepresent the original science.
Meanwhile, @ Gary (apparently with zero science/medical training / experience) continues to peddle the same misinformation about the pandemic – shame on that loser (my patience and respect is almost exhausted).
A website in terminal decline.
“One more time – “pubmed” is the go-to search engine for the original articles untarnished by political position…”
But not untarnished by bias or dogma. Pubmed is little more than a holding tank, managed by the government, to publish articles documenting the status quo in a medical specialty and are rarely critical of drugs or the drug industry. For top general medical journals, the conflicts of interest are obvious, as the revenue from drug ads and selling reprints of trial reports constitutes a substantial proportion of their income. The corruption of our most prestigious medical journals has been exposed by current or previous editors-in-chief of the top journals, for example. BMJ, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine.
This is what Platy holds out as the “gold standard” of medical expertise. No, thank you!
There are numerous recent studies suggesting the efficacy of boosters wanes after 3-4 months with 0 difference in hospitalization in boosted vs. unvaccinated at 4 months. And prior Covid infection appears superior to vaccination for immunity. Having said that, I have been triple boosted including the 2nd generation bivalent vaccine.
@DCS, your key word is “watching”. Those of us that are very interested in the real science, and not the MSM rubbish, READ about the efficacy and side effects of the “vaccines”.
“James N”
“Pubmed is little more than a holding tank, managed by the government, to publish articles documenting the status quo in a medical specialty and are rarely critical of drugs or the drug industry.”
Unfortunately, mate, “Pubmed” is simply a search engine. It doesn’t publish articles any more than Google publishes the content you can find by using Google.
As ever, you have a f—king clue what you are writing about. But, go ahead, take you information from right wing and conspiracy theory sources with absolutely no scientific or medical basis.
The more you claim a conspiracy, the more you have to deny easily evidenced reality.
@Gary @Viewfromthewing Thailand has now rescinded ALL recent rule changes and is back to their 1OCT **FULLY OPEN** status. Typical Thai $hitshow https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailand-rescinds-entry-requirement-proof-covid-vaccination-minister-2023-01-09/
Due to the large number of scientifically unsupported comments (mostly from antivaxers) I will not comment on their issues (I am an epidemiologist. I know). In the end, it is the country’s decision on which requirements they want to impose. If you do not like them, get a zoom account. China closed and had strong restrictions and lockdowns. Thus, they should not be crying about reciprocity. Before that, there was a large crowd of Chinese tourists in SEA. So, yes, Thailand, Cambodia, and Lao PDR should be concerned about Chinese tourists bringing infections into their countries after China’s disastrous handling of the pandemic. The public health goal should be to avoid overburdening the healthcare systems with infected people (vaccinated or not). And this is not just an issue of I pay for my care. If you are sick, you are using resources that are unavailable to others. So grow up. We are not out of this pandemic yet. And please, do not go to SEA.