With the closure of New York JFK terminal 2 last week, Delta has consolidated its operations in terminal 4. Since that terminal was already crowded – it features the longest lines to get into any Sky Club – that didn’t seem like a positive for customers. I actually liked the low key aging terminal 2.
Fortunately relief is on the way for those accessing the Delta club at New York JFK, and not just because the airline is banning employees from using their lounges and charging more for memberships, banning non-elite customers from buying them, taking away access from elites flying coach on international trips and from club members who are flying on basic economy tickets.
There are two new lounges coming.
- Delta will open a new 14,000 square foot, 200 seat Sky Club on the new A concourse this summer.
- And JFK terminal 4 will have Delta’s first dedicated business class (“Delta One”) lounge. That won’t open until “early 2024” and will be 36,000 square feet next to the main security checkpoint.
Details on these lounges leaked out of the Port Authority a year ago. What’s new is the projected timeline to open, and that New York JFK’s business class lounge will be the first one Delta opens.
Currently American Airlines (Flagship lounges) and United (Polaris lounges) have dedicated business class lounges separate from their paid membership clubs. Delta has lacked this product, but their basic Sky Club is nicer than Admirals Clubs and United Clubs – when you can get in (it is not nicer when you’re waiting in a line in the terminal).
In summer 2021 I wrote about the plan for a Delta One business class lounge at LAX and later that the new A43 club in Detroit could become a dedicated business class lounge.
I would have hoped that at least one of these lounges would come to fruition in 2023, but it looks like we’ll have to wait until next year for the first one.
14,000 square feet? That’s tiny. By comparison, the newish Sky Club at New York LGA is 34,000.
That’s actually the biggest Sky Club in the system.
And despite being 36,000 square feet, it is regularly overcrowded with lines and customers waiting to enter.
So, how is a Sky Club of a mere 14,000 square feet going to have enough space for everyone at the much busier JFK?
@FNT Delta Diamond – it’s not enough but it’s an additional club, and so is the Delta one club which will pull customers out of the Sky Clubs.
I fins it kind of counter-intuitive that Delta Elite+ flying coach internationally on a Delta flight would not get Delta lounge access, but a Korean Air (or any other Skyteam) Elite+ on the same flight would get lounge access.
I also think it is contrary to Skyteam rules, not that anyone will enforce it: https://www.skyteam.com/en/lounges#:~:text=Regardless%20of%20their%20travel%20class%2C%20SkyTeam%20Elite%20Plus%20members1%20traveling%20on%2C%20or%20connecting%20to/from%2C%20a%20same%2Dday%20international%20flight2%20operated%20by%20a%20SkyTeam%20member%20airline%20have%20access%20to%20a%20lounge
It seems like the Delta One lounge is going to be massive while the regular Sky Club will be somewhat small. One would think the business-class-only lounge would be smaller.
Even if it’s an “additional” Sky Club, this new lounge is just 58% of the current Sky Club in terminal 4. So, maybe 200 customers assuming every chair or seat is occupied.
That’s small.
I know the DL clubs have historically been better than the UA/AA counterparts, but I wonder how that will change with new clubs opening and the food offerings being upgraded.
Not as familiar with AA, but the new UA clubs in EWR and ORD are great with better food. The new EWR clubs opening soon, along with the new DEN clubs opening this year, should help UA catch up even more.
LOL 8 years after Polaris lounges rolled out by UNITED
Oh and Delta had a “BusinessElite” lounge in Kennedy Terminal 2 that got downgraded to a SkyClub
UNITED rising
@ Gary — You like T2 better? How many decades since you were last in T2?
Not relevant to this post but it made me think of a description I once read about Skyteam: “the BigLots of airline alliances”
The current Delta Sky Club in JFK T4 is 25,000 square feet but the B concourse is much larger than the A concourse and that will still be the case even with the extension that is being added to T4A.
The T4A Sky Club is proportional if not larger than the T4B SC given that more of the gates on T4A are operated by foreign airlines.
The new T4A Sky Club plus the new Delta One lounge combined will be twice as large as the single existing T4B SC – so Delta is dramatically increasing its lounge capacity at JFK.
Also, Delta has also said that it is opening a Sky Club Express – whatever that means – location in T4 until the new T4A lounge opens.
And the new T4A lounge is supposed to open by summer when the crowding in T4B was the worst.
@Gene – I didn’t say “better” and I’ll be honest I haven’t been in T2 since 2019 or early 2020
FNT,
Delta operates about 20 Delta One equipped domestic aircraft pretty much year round at JFK and about 2 dozen Delta One equipped international aircraft during the peak summer month – so more than 1/4 of the flights have Delta One passengers that have access to the D1 lounge.
Gary is right that there will be very large number of passengers that will be moving from the Sky Clubs to the D1 Lounge – unless they choose to go to the SCs (given gate locations and where people connect from, some will stay at the T4B SC).
Obviously, Delta’s now closed Terminal 2 was long ago obsolete & an inefficient use of scarce real estate at JFK Airport.
And for sure, the future “New Terminal One” will be a most welcome addition replacing both T2 and the now clearly aging & undesirable current Terminal One.
But, what T2 lacked in terms of amenities, was more than offset by its small size & short walks from curbside to gates – especially when compared to the seemingly forever, mile long schlep from curbside to B gates beyond the current Delta SkyClub.
And if we’re being honest, when compared to airport terminals in other global capitals, JFK T4 is still kind of downscale, depressing, overcrowded & dowdy.
@Mark: Delta is serving wine that retails for between $4 and $7 at most Sky Clubs now. And that’s in lounges with Delta One passengers. On the planes in Delta One, the wine is also $5 wine.
Frankly, I don’t know how much worse the lounge can get once the new Delta One lounges launch.
“….Delta’s first dedicated business class (“Delta One”) lounge. That won’t open until “early 2024” and will be 36,000 square feet next to the main security checkpoint” — Is the new DeltaOne lounge taking over the space from the still shuttered Etihad lounge?
Tim, are you finally admitting that Delta lounge overcrowding is an issue? You seem to be all about the solutions from OMAAT last week to this article today but… still not admitting that overcrowding at the lounges is an issue (from last week when I asked you).
Even Delta says it’s an issue. Not really sure where your leg to stand on has gone… And frankly, you owe Gary a public apology after lambasting him last month for “daring” to bring up the issue of Delta lounge overcrowding.
We’ll be waiting…
Like Gary, I preferred T2. I never encountered a security line for Precheck (it looked like there was generally not a line for anyone a lot of the time) and there was always plenty of space in the lounge, with helpful agents. I am sad that this closed. What is the reason for Delta doing this?
@Gene, I enjoyed using the Skyclub in T2 during 2022. I would intentionally take the jitney bus between terminals to avoid the long lines and crowded lounges in Delta’s main terminal.
Im a super duper extra diamond gold & platinum universal level elite vvip. At my status I can get into every lounge in the world & extra top secret ones too. The food is much better when one is able to dine in the extra top secret lounges/clubs.
@ Gary — 2019 is way more recently than I would have guessed. It seems you never fly Delta and, if IIRC, that terminal was only served by DL.
Tim Dunn doesn’t take into account the lost square footage of the T2 lounge that just closed and all those T2 flights crammmed into T4.
Avoid Delta at JFK with this poor planning just as pandemic excuses are over and travelers demand what they paid for
Hopefully by the time the Concourse A lounge opens at JFK T4, Delta will have the Real-Time Club Occupancy Tracker in the Fly Delta app available for the two Concourse A & B lounges. It’s a lot of walking in T4 to get to either lounge, so may help with timing on getting to your gate if you go to one lounge in a different concourse from where your gate is located.
I like going to the Centurion lounge since it’s right after security.
Greg,
flights ALSO moved from T2 to T4 and the T2 lounge was not anywhere near 14K SF let alone 36K for the new D1 lounge.
And MAX,
I have said for months that DL and Amex issued too many premium cards.
And I have also repeatedly said that I have yet to not be able to enter an SC without a wait – and that record remains.
I have complained about Gary’s repeated use of the same JFK photo to try to paint a picture of overcrowding as a system problem when it is clear that a small percentage of SCs have regular lines.
It is not a surprise that you cannot accurately repeat what I have stated.
So, I owe nobody any apology and you clearly exist to try to argue.
Btw, did you notice that Delta not only had a higher profit margin for the 4th quarter than United but DAL is also guiding to a higher profit margin than UAL for the 1st quarter of 2023, even though DAL is baking in the new pilot contract while UAL is not even negotiating – let alone implementing a new pilot agreement with hundreds of millions in additional costs per year?
UA’s ONE quarter of industry leading margins has come and gone.
FNT Delta Diamond “Newish”? I meant “New-ish”.
@guflyer,
Delta’s JFK Terminal 2 opened in 1962.
It was closed to make way for a massive, $9.5 billion, 2.4 million square foot terminal that will replace the existing Terminals 1 and 2, plus occupy the space where the former Pan Am Worldport (aka Terminal 3 when Delta operated flights there after taking over most of Pan Am’s JFK operations after the storied airline failed in 1991) once stood.
I agree with @Mark & @Greg. @Gary tends to have certain lines that he repeats often, one of them being that Delta SkyClub is better than United Club and Admirals Club — but that Polaris or Flagship lounges are better than the SkyClub. That line is now outdated.
I’m a NYC-based flyer and had a status match from Delta for the last two years (1K on United) so had the chance to try all their NYC area clubs (and other clubs) a bunch recently. United’s new club at EWR has food and beverage options just as good as Delta SkyClub — but it’s a peaceful oasis by comparison to the JFK SkyClub because access is so much more limited. There’s never a line; you can even scan yourself in at an automated gate if you like. United’s Club at LGA (which uses the old club concept) does have worse food than Delta’s LGA club — but it’s so much cleaner and brighter than the LGA SkyClub, which is basically a filthy, overcrowded zoo (with long lines to boot).
To me the real issue right now is United’s newest club concept hasn’t been rolled out widely (just two hubs so far, EWR and ORD). You have to go market by market, but the cities where United has the new club concept, its lounge offerings are clearly superior — that’s just not most cities right now. Once United finishes renovations of clubs with their new concept at least at all hubs, I think (a) United will have better clubs, but (b) the trade off is they’re more expensive to access since the United infinite card costs $550 and has very few credits whereas the AmEx Platinum comes with tons of credits that offset the annual fee so you’re getting Delta SkyClub access for next to nothing. I think overcrowding in the clubs really detracts from a premium experience, and United just won’t have that issue because it’s just not giving away access as cheaply as Delta is.
@Gene – yes it was a Delta terminal, yes I was flying Delta 🙂
Tim,
Still waiting for your apology… go back and reread the way you told Gary he didn’t even have the “right” (per you) to write about overcrowding at delta’s sky clubs since he didn’t fly delta 3x per day… it’s almost so amusing to be comedy, but you actually meant it lol. And even delta has repeatedly said there’s an issue.
But it’s nice that you finally admit to delta overcrowding their lounges after spending months saying it wasn’t an issue.
Per United…? Uhhh? So? I love how you seem to think airlines financials you had no part in are somehow your ace in the hole in a blog comment section.
One of us was fired from an airline (delta…). It wasn’t me. Don’t quit your day job.
Do not always agree with you but I am amazed at the amount of copy you pump out each day
Thanks for the update. Still not sure why so many people stand in long lines to get into a SkyClub. Is it for the $5 swill?
MAX,
once again, you can’t and don’t accurately quote what I said in a a flimsy – and failed – attempt to deflect from other carriers’ underperformance.
The fact that I have seen full lounges but have not had to wait in lines is why I have noted that Gary’s assessment is not accurate. Other readers had said the same thing as me while others have waited.
The notion of long lines is unique to JFK T4 and precisely why they are 1. implementing an Express SC now and 2. more than doubling their existing capacity including adding a Delta One lounge
And John,
NYC is a highly competitive market between DL and UA. There will be people that see one carrier as superior to one thing or the other but let’s not forget that UA does not even fly to all 3 airports and they have had to reduce the size of their operation at EWR because they couldn’t keep the flights they operate at an acceptable level of on-time performance and EWR is still the most consistently delay prone airport in the US and on UA’s system.
DL is clearly having growing pains both for SC capacity and in NYC but DL overtook UA as the largest airline in NYC by local market passengers a local time ago and that isn’t going to change since all 3 airports are essentially capacity-controlled.
DL a “leader”. . .hardly. AA started this along with Premium Economy 5 plus years ago and is refining their product with the second generation while DL hasn’t completed their first. Everyone loves DL. . NOT! They continue to rest on a reputation from 4 -5 years ago. The product today and their inflight service is not superior anymore. AA and UA have caught up and DL is descending, not climbing anymore.
You might want to turn the discussion to premium economy – which is not the discussion – but DAL has returned to the top of the industry in terms of profitability.
AAL is guiding to much stronger profits relative to DAL and UAL but AAL still trails DAL and UAL even though AAL carries more revenue.
And with respect to NYC and the NE, DAL is the largest airline by local market revenue in both NYC and BOS.
None of the big 3 can outperform the other 2 when they are smaller.
AAL, by its own choice, is subcontracting out some of its own domestic flying to JetBlue – which means AAL gets to share some of the revenue, but the flying including pay for employees goes to B6.
UAL failed at its attempt to return to JFK and has had to reduce the size of its own operations at EWR because of poor on-time performance due to the arrival of so many LCC flights; EWR slot controls were removed years ago because UAL was not using its slots in accordance with federal laws.
Delta also is the most reliable US airline – which is a big reason why they are the most preferred airline for business travel, something even WN acknowledges. DL slowed its return of capacity in the second half of 2022 to fix its operational problems and they succeeded in returning to being a very reliable airline. now, they are growing faster in 2023 compared to 2022 than any other of the big 4.
Yes, Delta is leading again and even if your argument was that AA pioneered PE first, no one cares about history but rather the present.
Years ago there used to be Biz lounges in Atl and other airports –then downgraded to regular…glas they may come back!!
There’s already a line to get in.
Tim,
DL’s ASM vs Q1 19 was down 9% where’s UA was down 9.5%. But DL’s RPM was down 10% vs UA’s 6.6%. UA beat DL on yield and load factor among others.
Frankly, DL has fleet advantage, labor advantage, hub advantage, loyalty advantage, JV advantage, and still isn’t sweeping the competition?
DL entered COVID in a position of strength and should have further outpaced the competition by now. Yet, they’re trailing again for the 2nd straight quarter? Cherry pick your metrics all you want, because that shows which airline ISN’T the industry leader.
Q4* 19
Leo,
what you and others fail to note is that Delta produced far less capacity than other airlines – which impacted their performance.
They specifically dialed back their capacity in the 2nd half of 2022 in order to regain their position as the US’ most reliable airline – and they achieved that.
DAL is regrowing their capacity in 2023 by a larger percentage than any other airline – which is why they will outperform each of the big 4 in 2023.
I haven’t cherrypicked anything. I have noted accurate facts which you and others don’t want to note – or don’t realize are there.
UAL got a huge bump in 2022 because it had capacity ready to deploy as international travel rebounded. DAL is now positioned to do that in 2023 in both the domestic and international marketplace.
@Tim
That’s exactly why I used Q4 ASM and RSM relative to ‘19 to compare airlines.
They’re both 90% of Q4 19 flying (don’t forget UA has regional airline disadvantage too), but the difference is that UA is more profitable relative to ‘19 while DL was less profitable.
UA has more fuel disadvantage now than in 2019. If DL trails for a 3rd straight quarter, especially in Q1 (same for Q4) which historically DL outperforms UA then you’re going to need more than a “DL is lacking capacity excuse”.
Crazy thing isn’t it, UA being able to grow and expand its network and do it profitably?
Leo,
you should read the guidance that each airline has provided – DAL expects to be generate higher margins than UAL in the 1st quarter.
I’m not sure why you and a few others think that years of the way the airline industry are going to change. UAL has been below DAL in profitability – mid-tier for the industry.
As much as Scott Kirby loves to trash other airlines and talk about how UAL is going to do what other airlines cannot, the simple fact is that UAL got a benefit from not retiring aircraft but now just has to spend a whole lot more money modernizing its aged fleet and paying its people which other airlines did or started doing years ago.
please read DAL and UAL’s guidance and their respective earnings calls.
@Tim,
Are the actual earnings the last two quarters not strong enough for you to argue? DL gets dealt the best hand, so they should easily have the biggest pot. DL should be outperforming its peers full stop and that’s not happening.
Projecting a lead but blundering the last two quarters isn’t a good look. UA is doing much better than DL relative to ‘19.
In addition to equipment advantage, DL has M&O advantage. UA HODLing aircraft should be matched by DL’s recent acquisitions given the similar ASMs proportional to ‘19. If UA can have higher margins relative to ‘19 while paying more on fuel than on personnel, DL with a refinery should too and easily.
“once again, you can’t and don’t accurately quote what I said in a a flimsy – and failed – attempt to deflect from other carriers’ underperformance.”
Oh tim… your weird deflections and attempts to redirect a conversation away from your need to apologize to Gary are always amusing… No one was even talking about financials and why you feel the need to bring them up on an article about Delta clubs when you had NOTHING to do with Delta or United’s financials is just amusing. This topic was about Delta clubs and how you should publicly apologize to Gary for being so rude last month and saying there was zero problem with delta lounges and how Gary had no right to write about Delta unless he flew them all the time (which… even then, I’m sure you’d find a reason he’s not allowed to write about them). But.. I’d expect nothing else from a guy that has nothing better to do with his time than troll blog comment sections.
We’re still waiting for your apology…
Delta is massively unprofitable without AMEX. And everyone knows they have the best credit card deal in the industry at the moment. So whatever it is you’re even trying to say about airline financials is absent any real knowledge on your part. You’ve already shown repeatedly how you have zero knowledge about international revenue accounting or how DOT collects revenue data. You repeatedly told everyone that the A350 has outsold the 787 (which was just funny)… god knows why you care except that Delta has the A350 and you need their choices to be affirmed for some strange reason but it did demonstrate your complete lack of true knowledge or understanding of the industry.
So how about you just put your keyboard down, have a peach Bellini, and just relax. Delta does a lot of great things but that doesn’t mean other carriers are bad. I don’t think anyone really understands why your life revolves around this weird Delta infatuation.
JFK T2 was much better in terms of not having to walk 4 miles to get to the SC (then a line) and then another 2 miles to your gate. Obviously, it was quite outdated otherwise.
The new Sky Club tracker has been working quite well and it does appear to be accurate. I’ve now used it at JFK, MIA, and ATL. )And honestly folks, The B Club in ATL is NOT Studio 54 in 1976. There are 8 others…use the tracker and hit up one of those clubs).
Finally, I was just in the new T4 JFK Express…it’s not too bad. Just level set your expectations and there never seems to be a line.
Lastly, try to remember…not everyone has lounge access. Last night the line at McDonalds in T4 JFK was ridiculous and the Palm was packed….and guess what? No line at T4 SC so I dropped in for a quick bite and drink and went on my way.
You really should listen to United’s earnings call this week. If you did, you would hear Scott Kirby say that United’s Pacific network has been a drag on earnings for a number of years = exactly what I have said and what the DOT data shows.
So, let’s be very clear that I have stated accurately facts – whether you want to hear or read them or not.
The same principle applies for just about everything you have tried to throw in my face. I get the facts, you complain that I don’t understand when in fact I do and you just don’t like what I highlight.
Gary is very competent and he doesn’t need you. Anymore than Ben did when you thought you had to go to bat for him.
@Tim
Even though your reply was for Max, see below.
And if you go back in our history, not to go into too much detail, but we had a multi-year restructure of our Asia capacity. And that has been a drag on earnings for many years leading up to the pandemic.-Ed Bastian
Asia has traditionally been a margin drag on our global flying, but we’ve worked diligently to rebuild the network and close this gap. And we think 2023 will validate that we accomplish that goal.-Scott Kirby
Q4 is historically a weak quarter for United. Not only did UA outperform DL in the Pacific, they outperformed in Latin America, Europe, other Atlantic and overall International.
UA is more exposed to loses given its greater reliance on Greater China, India, and Japan—markets that are either recovering and/or heavily impacted by Russian airspace. DL has reliance on Korea which it shares market dominance with owned KE (with DL’s partial ownership), something that UA doesn’t quite have with Japan.
So again, DL has several advantages over UA and still trailed in a second straight quarter?
I’m not sure how many times it has to be said but Delta did not fly as much capacity as it could because it wanted to make sure its operation was running at industry-best levels.
They achieved that goal of industry leadership in reliability.
Their strategy of not flying as much capacity HURT THEM FINANCIALLY. I’m not sure why it is so hard for you to understand the concept.
And Kirby’s own statement was that the Pacific was a multi-year drag on United’s profitability – precisely because they chased being the largest in China and HKG and because they are partners with a Japanese airline that is trying to run hubs at two Tokyo airports with Narita average fares much lower than Haneda.
And, again, if United had fundamentally changed the way the industry operated, they would be outperforming Delta in the 1st quarter and in the entirety of 2023 – but the guidance from both DAL and UAL shows that DAL will, once again be at the top of the industry financially – as well as operationally.
United had a great 3rd quarter because it held onto old airplanes so it could quickly re-add capacity, that continued into the 4th quarter but UA’s advantage over DL narrowed and in 2023, Delta will be generating the highest margins. You should also note that a number of analysts are not certain that UA’s guidance is realistic – listen to the earnings call.
and United still has far more labor cost increases ahead of it than Delta because United has not raised pilot salaries anywhere near as much as the Delta contract.
And then you have the reality that United is still paying 7% more than Delta for jet fuel per gallon because of the benefit that Delta gets from its refinery. And United is paying $750 million/year more on interest expense than Delta.
As much as you want to believe otherwise, United will not be industry leading but will settle into the middle of the pack position that they have occupied for years. Financially, United does a good, but not great, job which is why the market value for UAL is about 2/3 of DAL.
United also withheld capacity. From yesterday’s earnings call they have 25% more spare aircraft than pre-pandemic and utilization is lower, as a reliability strategy.
@Tim
So you’re saying that Delta with all its advantages and roughly flying 90% of ‘19 ASM which is equivalent to UA (but not RPM) still trailed in the last two quarters?
Gary addressed in concise terms what you couldn’t over several long winded and quibbling arguments. That DL and UA both withheld capacity and yet UA performed better relative to ‘19 DL, despite fuel and labor disadvantage among others.
DL isn’t the only the airline that does an earnings call, Tim.
United SPECIFICALLY bragged that it did not ground widebody aircraft during the pandemic and kept all employees ready to fly when demand returned.
Where Delta and United deployed the capacity they did have mattered and made a difference – and UAL still deployed a higher percentage of capacity in its most profitable markets than Delta. DAL will be back to full capacity where it most needs to be – in its core hubs – by this summer.
They got a big advantage for doing that in the 3rd quarter, Delta (the only other airline that has reported so far) narrowed the gap tremendously in the 4th quarter, and based on the guidance that both airlines have provided, Delta will outperform United in the 1st quarter of 2023 and for the year. Multiple analysts questioned United’s earnings guidance for 2023.
You BOTH should actually read ALL of the earnings, guidance and earnings call transcripts to get the whole picture and not what you want to believe.
You, Leo, Max and Scott Kirby, all want us to believe that United is going to rearrange the financial leadership order in the US airline industry now. You might remember that Scott Kirby said he would do that 5 years ago – and failed. He has Delta-envy and even professional market analysts recognize that he isn’t giving revenue and cost guidance that align with each other.
You are free to believe whatever you want but the financial results in the industry will be in the same order as it has long been among global carriers – Delta at the top, United in the middle, and American at the bottom.
The real shakeup will be that American is increasingly nipping at United’s heels; they are not making the same stupid mistakes including flying multiple unprofitable routes across the Pacific they once did – and United’s own CEO admitted they did.
Delta is the most valuable airline to investors based on market cap – 56% more than United right now. Southwest – even after losing billions in market cap – is still worth more than United. There are good reasons for that which you clearly don’t want to accept.
I can only give you the facts and it really doesn’t bother me if you refuse to accept them.
@Tim
Sorry Tim for whatever good reasons, you don’t want to accept that DAL blundered the last two quarters of 2022 despite running capacity similar to its competitors.
Airlines have reported this information publicly. Let’s hope they finally return to a winning playbook, since the Tim Dunn playbook fails to explain how DL with its market advantages still managed to blunder a leading position for consecutive quarters despite running equivalent capacity.
What would explain it though is a DL executive strategy meeting where they all remind each other of their market cap, pat each other on the back, and called it a day. Only DL favorable facts are accepted. Any contrarians are branded industry deniers and sent to M&O gulag.
You need to give data to back up your claims. You made a claim on capacity without data which is why Gary easily called you out on capacity, while you back pedaled and made a modified capacity claim again without data.
And, no. The real industry shake up is DL trailing the last two quarters.
you’re blabbering and failing to read what I wrote in order to continue your diatribe.
I have admitted that Delta gave up its financial lead for the last two quarters.
You and Scott Kirby (maybe you two are the same) can’t accept that United got a two quarter position of leadership that won’t translate into a long-term change in how the airlines are ranked financially.
Delta held back capacity to restore its operation and succeeded at becoming the US’ most reliable airline.
Delta said all along it would restore that capacity and it is by the summer of 2023.
United had a lot of capacity available to it in the summer of 2022 which allowed it to pick up a huge amount of demand as Europe reopened. UA succeeded at that strategy.
The fundamentals of the industry favor Delta long term just as they have for decades and even though Kirby has stated and failed to close the earnings and valuation gap with Delta.
Delta pays less for jet fuel and interest expense, has already spent more on fleet renewal than United, has a stronger balance sheet and is expected to be more profitable – based on guidance that each airline has provided.
DAL always reports first, United goes second and Scott Kirby can’t stand to admit that he will be #2 so he manipulates facts – such as misrepresenting the amount of cancellations in Denver on the day of the earnings call by excluding Skywest cancellations that bear the UA code.
You are free to argue until the cows come home but UA will continue to be a good, but not great business, slotted BEHIND Delta financially.
To continue to rehash the last 2 quarters when I have clearly stated the reasons for Delta’s underperformance and United’s overperformance clearly indicates that you are either downright intelligence deprived or argumentative.
@Tim
Being long winded and going on multiple different tangents is probably more downright intelligence deprived and argumentative.
It’s because you can’t present the capacity argument using actual data that refutes the numbers previously given. DL and UA had equivalent capacity relative to their ‘19 position, but UA was more profitable in the second half. DL didn’t just concede like you make it out to be.
You can’t address this so you pull multiple arguments since you can’t admit the mistake in your initial argument.
You did the same with trying to refute DL’s premium cabin inconsistencies back on OMaaT failing to provide actual data to support your claim.