Delta, Air France KLM and Virgin Atlantic are partnering with India’s IndiGo, and Delta will return to India with flights from Atlanta to Delhi.
This will be the carrier’s first foray into India since killing New York – Mumbai after a matter of weeks over five years ago. The pandemic and Delta’s retirement of Boeing 777-200LRs made the route impractical. Plus, it had been spurred on by their partnership with Jet Airways and Jet Airways collapsed. The lack of Russian overflight options, given Russia’s war against Ukraine, makes flying more challenging. Delta had previously flown Atlanta – Mumbai.
IndiGo will provide domestic connectivity. The carrier has a roughly 60% market share. Notably, though, for this to help Delta’s flights it means passengers double-connecting. Delta will not make their flight work based on the local Atlanta market alone.
- First we’ll see IndiGo’s code placed on long-haul flights operated by the three SkyTeam carriers from India to Amsterdam, Paris, Manchester and London-Heathrow.
- They’ll offer through-ticketing and aligned baggage rules across the partnership.
- There’s a promised of “consistent service standard,” but that’s silly because service standards are different within Air France KLM and between Air France, Delta and Virgin to begin with.
- There’s no detail yet on elite benefits extending to IndiGo travel.
Delta has not announced a start date for Atlanta – Delhi service, which is reminiscent of their 2018 announcement of New York JFK – Mumbai (which they credited flatteringly to President Trump during his first term in office). The New York – Delhi market is certainly larger than Atlanta – Delhi.
Meanwhile, IndiGo has 30 firm orders for A350-900s, is leasing six Norse Boeing 787-9s, and wants 600 aircraft by 2030. Partnering lets it advertise one-stop North America service. And they’re trying to jump ahead of Air India’s major planned growth, with the flag carrier’s new order deliveries still a couple of years away. However the deal needs to clear Indian regulatory hurdles.
If this all comes to fruition then I expect to see frequent flyer reciprocity, and potentially additional Delta flight growth to India (such as New York JFK flying, despite the already-crowded market). More speculative is whether we’ll see a revenue-sharing joint venture between the carriers in the future, or SkyTeam membership, though the former might be tough-going with the Indian government.
Finally, American Airlines has a codeshare relationship with IndiGo. It’s not clear whether that will continue, but clearly the new Delta partnership is meant to take on much greater importance.
Since Air India already joined Star, could this be strategy for Indigo to join Sky Team in the future?
Delta seems to like tubing AA codeshares at their own peril. Is AA going to be blindsided again? This is a lose lose.
as is being discussed elsewhere, the primary factor that is allowing DL to start these flights is getting enough of the latest versions of the A350 which are capable of flying from DEL to deep into the US, overflying NYC to get to the world’s largest hub and the ability to serve scores of cities which AA and UA cannot serve from NYC and which the ME3 cannot serve.
The fact that UA has been reduced to just a single flight to India – on par w/ AA – and DL will become the market leader simply because the A350 is larger says that DL will do just fine.
Indigo is not going to be exclusive to SkyTeam but the chances are high that DL/AF/KL/VS wll pull them into a joint venture in the future.
Any route to India won’t last because Delta sucks so bad compared to the ME3. Hmm, let me see, would I rather connect in JFK/ATL or DOH/DXB/AUH?
Gene,
pilot gets it. You don’t.
DL’s US carrier target is AA.
DL is flying India to ATL so they can connect far more traffic via a single connection; and the ME3 have NO JVs with US carriers.
oh, and DL still is the largest airline in NYC having overtaken UA because of UA’s strategic missteps. AA is, on a percentage basis, benefitting the most because of UA’s screwups.
DL’s strategy is to watch AA and UA beat the you know what out of each other. and then fly higher and further than either
@Tim — With ~14 US departure cities, most flyers in the US can fly an ME3 airline to India via one connection without having to fly through ATL or JFK. Duh.
@ Tim — Before you correct me, yes most people living in rural Merica aren’t near an ME3 US departure city, but their local airport is likely served by AA. DL will fly to one city in India, while Qatar flies to 13. Delta is the inferior choice compared to an AA codeshare with QR. Delta’s “new” route to India will fail just like it has before.
and AA has no joint venture with any ME carrier.
If you think that AA or UA is going to push connections to foreign airlines over their own metal or their JVs, you don’t understand the industry.
We do get you, though, Gene.
DL is on the verge of, once again, topping AA and UA In a market and you demonstrate that you are incapable of admitting that DL might have sat out the latest round of India service only to come back stronger than AA and UA.
How do you think DL grew from the 6th largest airline 50 years ago to the largest airline in the world by revenue but by outsmarting its competitors?
Unlike UA, DL doesn’t incessantly brag about its competitive position.
Spectrum boy has a point, DL does not brag because they have nothing to brag about. UA is larger and more profitable and with better metrics to boot. But hey, they are better than AA!
no, Jim, UA is not more profitable.
They did it one quarter by paying their employees $1 billion/yr less than AA or DL employees. It isn’t hard to tout your corporate success when you take it off your employees’ backs.
and DL will still be the largest US airline to India the day they start service just because the 787-9 is the only plane that works for AA or UA.
@ Tim — Using the only metric that matters in your world, UAL’s stock performance leaves Delta in the dust. The rest is just noise. Tim, what I do understand is that I would pick a connecting QR itinerary over a DL nonstop EVERY SINGLE TIME if given a choice.
UAL is worth 80% of DAL, Gene.
You fail to realize that UAL stock moved up so much because it was so poorly run for so long that it was badly undervalued.
and its profits that have pushed up its stock have come off the backs of its employees.
Get back w/us when UA has settled all 6 outstanding labor contracts and let us compare UA’s profits to the rest of the industry.
We could ALL care less how you travel, Gene.
Your decisions mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Stop acting like the world revolves around you
Have never tried Indigo; not planning to, personally, so I’m with @Gene in-part. Yet, I’m also with @Tim Dunn that ultimately more coordination is a good thing for SkyTeam, Delta, AF/KLM. I miss the days when DL operated its 772 on those ~16 hour flights BOM, SYD, JNB, etc. Powerhouse of an aircraft. The a350s are certainly nice (especially with the DeltaOne Suites). Interesting how DL is skipping NYC for now and routing from ATL. Will be fascinating whether they ever go head-to-head again with UA, AA, and Air India on the NYC-DEL/BOM routes. One thing is for sure, for now at least, India is ‘hot’ and there’s ample business and talent flowing between the USA and there (China’s loss is India’s gain.)
@ Tim — NO ONE here could care less what you think or say.
@1990 – Indigo is quite nice, by Indian airline standards. They do standard 3rd world ULCC stuff (e.g. I had to check my carryon bag because it weighed >9kg or something silly like that). Seats are cramped, but you can buy up to extra legroom (which I’ll admit I needed). They have food available for sale on board and it’s not very tasty. It’s all very standard ULCC. My last crew was impressively professional and spoke at least 3 languages proficiently.
By contrast, Air India’s interiors (even, or perhaps especially, business class) tend to be covered in a thin veneer of curry, according to every report I’ve ever read or heard from folks that flew them.
I’d have no real hesitation flying Indigo. It’s a reasonably nice airline.
How is ATL-DEL viable without using Russian airspace?
Gary, on a French website, I have read that Indigo finally ordered 60 A-350, not 30. But maybe was it a typically French Airbus cocorico?
Apart from that, do you know if Indigo could join…Skyteam ?
ATL-DEL will be difficult to fly without Russian airspace and likely not announced prior to it opening up. Good ness, it will be a long flight even without airspace restrictions.
Once that is cleared, UA will be back with ORD-DEL, 2x EWR-DEL, SFO-DEL, EWR-BOM, and possibly SFO-BLR
Does Indigo actually have business-class for connecting business-class passengers?
There are A350 flights that are in the air for 17+ hours right now that operate with Russia airspace restrictions and which mirror what ATL-DEL will be.
DL waited until it has sufficient numbers of the latest and most capable versions of 359s to start its ULH expansion; it has the 350-1000s coming next year.
It isn’t clear yet which aircraft DL will use to start ATL-DEL and it is possible they could start w/ the 359s and then transition to the 35Ks later.
The two are similarly capable; the 35K has better per passenger economics for ultra longhaul flying but the route can most certainly be technically possible w/ the latest 359s.
@jamesb2147 — I’ve mostly flown into DEL, then taken other means of transportation in the north (Delhi, Agra, Jaipur, etc.) Have wanted to explore more (Mumbai, Shimla, Varanasi, Kerala, to name a few), some of which would likely involve domestic flights. Glad to hear that Indigo has somewhat ‘newer’ aircraft, though, of course, good to set low ‘ULCC’ expectations for all. Depending on where starting/finishing, and ‘price,’ would probably still fly into DEL/BOM for the long-haul. Though, I ‘get’ what some have said about certain carriers (EK, QR, EY), as the ‘gate way’ to ‘smaller’ cities, instead of domestic flights. It all ‘depends.’ Anyway, safe travels!
@Gene — Grammar check, sir. Folks often use ‘could care less,’ but based on your heated debate with Tim, I think you meant ‘couldn’t care less.’ Then again, I ‘care’ what each of you have to say. In fact, I enjoy your individual and collective passion on these subjects. While I may not always agree, I say, exchange and engage, more! Why not! Pour some gasoline on that fire, sirs!
@Tim Dunn — The ‘Russian airspace’ problem is disturbing and somewhat unavoidable. I feel for airlines like Finnair who used to have relatively ‘quick’ flights to Asia, and now have to add several hours (and lots of fuel) for ‘safety.’ Can’t forget Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 or Korean 007 either. Just not worth it these days.
1990,
the Middle East and SW Asia are littered with no fly zones for US airlines – or if they are allowed to fly over certain parts of certain countries, it has to be at high altitudes specifically because there is so much conflict and lawlessness.
Airlines from other countries face similar no fly zones but none worse than US airlines.
Many routes simply don’t work which is why UA is flying just a single route to/from India compared to the half dozen routes it flew pre-Ukraine war.
UA has also cut its east coast to E. Asia flying except to Tokyo.
Not only is DL restarting India by not copying what AA and UA are doing – the only route that works with the 787 with a viable number of passengers – but DL is overflying NYC by 700 miles with an aircraft that will carry more people further than the 787 can do.
The market is there, people can fly whatever airline they want including the ME3, but it is taking the A350 to expand the India to US network while still respecting Russia airspace restrictions.
It would be great if the US and some of these countries can return to peaceful terms but US airlines have to deal w/ the environment that actually exists.
The a350 is simply a superior aircraft for ULH flying
@ 1990 — Re-read. Grammar is correct.
@Gene — Alright. But the statement is incorrect. I care about both of youse! *wink*
@Tim Dunn — For sure, Airbus and its a350 gets the job done. Delta made the right investments there. Have been on the SQ NYC-SIN routes, 19 hours. Even for seasoned travelers, those are still impressive (that we can fly that long.) Whereas the 777X, with all its delays, is just not rising to the moment. Sure, some 787s could ‘do the work,’ but, even Qantas has to ‘stop’ at AKL for SYD-JFK. Wonder if their ‘Project Sunrise’ will ever come about for SYD-JFK/LHR, nonstop. That’s 20+ hours.
AA might not have a joint venture with QR however AA sure does hype QR to India on their website.
I’ve flown Indigo a bunch of times. Really like their service. Simple, yet effective. Their planes are clean and their staff (on and off the plane) are generally very courteous and professional.
Hopefully they’ll keep the AA codeshare.
As someone who occasionally travels between MSP – COK this is welcome news. I’m a captive of the Delta hub and hence become silver or gold purely due to the flights that I take (no card).
The flights in this route has always been two stops which I’m ok with. Air India is never an option so it’s usually the ME3 , a short hop to Chicago on UA or AA to connect to them. Or an occasional Singapore Airlines ticket, also with two steps, but usually the itinerary is a bit inconvenient.
Surprisingly my upcoming flight back in July is on AA metal from Doha to Philly even though it’s all purchased via Qatar.
To use my sky team bonafide on this route I have to travel on Virgin Atlantic – the whole family is flying the same route in December MSP-LHR-BLR-COK with the last leg being on Indigo.
I would rather buy that ticket from Delta but currently it’s only available via Virgin. I hope that with this deal a Delta issued ticket will be an option. You earn a bit more Skypesos this way.
Indigo has the single most uncomfortable seats I’ve ever travelled in. They remove the cushions on the seat to save fuel. It also has the shortest flight attendants, since they pick those to save money.
AIr India is OK for short haul trips. And it has a professional administration. It’s part of Star Alliance.
Etihad has a lot of flights to domestic airports in India. AA has a tie up with them. Much better than Indigo.
Since Tim’s mother likely doesn’t let him travel outside the US, he isn’t aware how uncomfortable Indigo is.
@JonF
Yeah I’d just take Etihad, Emirates or Qatar every time. At MSP we don’t have their service but AA and UA offers connections to them
@1990
“Sure, some 787s could ‘do the work,’ but, even Qantas has to ‘stop’ at AKL for SYD-JFK. ”
Yep. And the QF 789 AKL-JFK is a longer route than Delta’s likely route on ATL-DEL with no Russian overflight (based on AA’s JFK-DEL routing last night).
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=atl-lhr-bbu-rzv-gyd-del;+akl-jfk;;+syd-jfk
QF has a very light 789 but the plane is quite capable though obviously QF chose the A350 to fly SYD-JFK. The UA 789 today flies longer routes than the planned A35k ATL-DEL routing (IAH-SYD, among others). The new AA high-J 789s will also be just as capable with a full airplane of flying routes that Delta is planning with the A35K.
However, there’s no Delta A350 LOPA planned that would be able to do anything close to QF’s Project Sunrise. Even Delta doesn’t think the A359 can fly to DEL from their hubs hence why they’re waiting for the A35k while AA and UA continue to fly the 789 to DEL every day.
The A350 is a great plane, for sure, but there’s not much competitive advantage for DL A350s over AA/UA 789 and 77W
yes, Max, there is a competitive advantage to the A350.
DL will use either the 359 or 35K to fly India to a city outside of the NE (NYC), something AA and UA cannot do with their current 789s.
You recall that UA even tried flying their 789s from ORD to DEL – which is shorter than ATL – and dropped the route because of performance issues.
And the 359 even in DL’s 275 seat configuration holds more passengers than the 789 in UA’s configuration.
UA might use its new even less dense 789s to add ORD and other routes back even w/ airspace restrictions but DL will have more seats.
and if DL launches the route in December 2025, still possible, it will be with the 359. It is possible but not likely they are making a route announcement a year in advance.
Before IndiGo was around, there was JetAirways and Air Sahara in India willing to hook up with foreign carriers across multiple airline alliances.
I used to fly Delta a lot to India when they used to have their own planes flying from CDG to India, but that was back in the days when Delta actually had good value mileage tickets for Europe-India-Europe business class travel.
@MaxPower — I appreciate the ‘great circle mapper’ link. That’s a good site. As for QF, seems like 2027 for the a35K that’ll attempt those SYD-JFK/LHR nonstops. Any aircraft, Airbus or Boeing, that can do that fully-loaded is impressive.
@Tim Dunn — I’ve wondered if any US carriers would ever consider a SQ-style low-density a359 with just Business and Premium Economy seats for ultra-long-haul operations. Once you get to 18-20 hour flights, a ‘basic’ Economy seat is just cruel. They could then operate a seasonal JFK-MLE, nonstop, for those uppity New Yorkers that think the Caribbean is too close.
@IsaacC — That return on AA metal instead of QR to PHL is gonna feel… jarring. Like, wait, no pajamas for Business Class? No a la carte ordering of meals? What is this?! Steerage?! “For God’s sake, man, there are women and children down here!” (Titanic, 1997)
@Jon F — Be nice to our mamas! Bah.
1990
I don’t think any US carrier will operate low density widebodies. UA is pushing the limits of what is economically viable with their 225 seat 789s. There is no way that UA can make profits comparable to what DL can make with a 275 seat 359 or a 340 seat (likely mid-point of potential DL configurations for the 35K). UA will be chasing market presence with a small widebody while DL will be able to fly the same routes and beyond with a more efficient larger widebody.
UA might go for a 777X and then go for the 777-8 but that plane is years away and the 777-9 is a big airplane and not much more capable than the 777-300ER and considerably less capable than the 35K.
Airbus has waited until Boeing has developed each model and then Airbus has perfected their competing model. The A350-1000 is simply unmatched by anything Boeing can offer until perhaps the 777-8 comes online years from now.
DL is in the position of being able to rapidly and efficiently grow its international network. There is high potential for leadership in the longhaul international market to pass to DL just as has been the case in NYC over recent months.
1990,
just a reminder that QF’s 35Ks will operate with about 100 seats less than what DL will put on their 35ks (we don’t know their configuration yet).
DL is not interested in 19 to 20 hour flights but 18 hour flights are very possible. ATL-DEL will easily be 17.5 in the winter westbound w/ Russian airspace restrictions.
of course the best thing that could open more new routes is for the Russia-Ukraine war to end.
will you give the man credit if he can help bring that about?
@Tim Dunn — Not to go too far off topic, but airspace and geopolitics definitely go hand-in-hand.
If ‘peace’ involves sovereignty, security guarantees, and the necessary ‘justice’ of meaningful assistance to rebuild Ukraine, I’d personally nominate #47 for the Nobel Peace Prize, and even go to Stockholm myself, you know, to cheer him on, if He were the reason for this all coming about. I doubt it, though. He still seems aligned with the other side, sadly.
As for the other ‘big issue,’ (*cough* China *cough*) I’d certainly prefer cooperation and collaboration (like a decade ago) with our largest trading partners. So, I suppose a ‘trust but verify’ approach would be nice, so long as we can actually protect our intellectual property. If we didn’t attack our allies, I’d say we should rapdily nearshore/friendshore more of our manufacturing (Mexico, Canada, Colombia, etc.) We cannot allow the CCP to overtake their neighbors. A free Taiwan and an open South China Sea for trade, etc. is pretty important, too.
I much prefer traveling. More business. More trade. More exchange of ideas and people. Or, we can just do wars. *deep sigh*