Hyatt, IHG and Marriott hotels all offer two paths for their most frequent guests to upgrade into suites: they can be confirmed in advance a limited number of times each year, or hotels should offer them suites that are still available on arrival. (The Hilton Honors program allows hotels to upgrade members to suites but does not require it, and 44% of their brands do not have to offer upgrades at all.)
The details of suite upgrades vary, for instance Hyatt lets Globalist members confirm suites at the time of booking, and any standard suite for sale can be used for an upgrade. In contrast, Marriott only starts upgrading into suites 5 days prior to check-in, and will only allocate standard suites they do not expect to sell.
Nonetheless, some hotels play games with their inventory (such as creating a category of limited rooms eligible for upgrade) and also refuse to provide upgrades at check-in. This is especially prevalent at Marriott, though Hyatt is not immune to the practice.
The general manager of a premium Los Angeles-area chain hotel writes to me, explaining why his hotel will not offer top tier elites to suites even though the chain requires them to do so.
[O]ne thing that has begun to impact upgrades are the housekeeping ordinances that are starting to pop up in major cities like Los Angeles. Where the room attendants can now only clean 3,500 sqft in a given day, and the hotels are now required by law to offer stayover service. Costs of hskp has increased so much that operators are having to figure out how to make things more efficient, which means not providing complimentary upgrades into suites because the cost to clean has doubled. So we will only upgrade to a higher floor + view.
Since the pandemic hotels have been cutting costs, trying to take advantage of high room rates to generate outsized profits after losing money in 2020 and in many markets also in 2021.
One way they’ve tried to do this is by eliminating daily housekeeping. Where it’s required to be offered it’s often only ‘on request’ and they sometimes make it difficult to request. When housekeeping is requested, the service may be limited to just making the bed (not changing linens), emptying trash, and swapping out towels left on the floor.
Hotel housekeeper unions have fought back, since their members have fewer jobs, fewer hours, and more work to do – a room that doesn’t get cleaned daily is more work to clean after check-out. Where this general manager oversees a hotel, in Los Angeles, they’re required to offer housekeeping to guests during their stay and the amount of work they can require of housekeepers is limited. A suite isn’t just more work to clean, it takes up more of each housekeepers allotment of work. Occupied suites mean more housekeepers they have to keep on staff.
Put another way, the hotel views offering upgrades into suites they haven’t sold as expensive rather than free. And the general manager views his job as limiting costs (“making things more efficient”) even if that means “not providing complimentary upgrades into suites” despite this being an express requirement of the chain his hotel is a part of.
DCS says: “You don’t know jack about me, JoePro. Really”
Granted, our internet personas may stray greatly from who we are in reality. As far as “DCS” goes, I’d be far from the first to recognize and call out that a good 90% of comments posted by him contain an overt air of superiority and condescension. No more consistent/repetitive an example of this than his denigration of the value of blogs like this and OMAAT and their authors vis-a-vis calling them “self-anointed travel gurus.”
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
Alas, he knows even less about me, as he continues to falsely assert that I post/have posted under names like “Mikey” and “DeeCeeEss”. This, despite already having clearly stated that in 5 years of wasting our breath commenting back and forth, I have only ever gone by “Joe” and “JoePro”.
Also @Platy: you tell me (because I’m sure DCS is now on another selective boycott)… does not a statement that DCS made like “WoH is the only major hotel loyalty program that does not offer its members the 4th or 5th award night free, which is quantifiably the single most valuable perk in hotel loyalty.” —does that not run directly in the face of another statement he made: ““There are no “superior” programs. There is only the ability of each individual to make the most of the benefits that their preferred program offers. Does that sound to you like I am claiming “superiority”?””
Because the way I read it (and I’m confident the way most of the Travel-Blog readership reads it), DCS is implying WOH is inferior since it doesn’t offer 5th night free.
Couple of thoughts on this topic and these comments.
Step back and think about what has been written and the whole “points”/loyalty concept.
Loyalty programs have become hideously complex and frankly unfair to the traveler. As they currently exists theyre at best false advertising and at worst a bait and switch. And they have the effect of alienating the best customers which is one part stupid and another part bad for business.
For obviously intelligent people to write over 100 comments on this proves a couple things:
One, the loyalty programs are as I describe and people should relax, expunge the negativity and spread your business around until they get the message.
I’m top level AA, Marriott and IHG and pretty high status at Delta and decent at UA.
I wouldn’t give you a dime for any of them as they’ve become much like our political choices:
The better of the bad.
Relax and enjoy your summer.
@ JoePro
“ Hilton may work better for you than Hyatt”
Like I said, dude, it isn’t a competition between different hotel loyalty programs. As we do, we need to play to the strengths of each, I’ve leveraged such to stay in PHs and WAs plus other program equivalents, just as you have.
“call out that a good 90% of comments posted by him contain an overt air of superiority and condescension.”’
Please stop shooting the messenger. Smart folk and those taking an evidence-based position are typically denigrated by those threatened by intelligence, especially when their personal perceptions are challenged. FWIW the refusal of folk to accept evidence and alter their position accordingly is subject to extensive psychological research.
“No more consistent/repetitive an example of this than his denigration of the value of blogs like this and OMAAT and their authors vis-a-vis calling them “self-anointed travel gurus”
Credit where credit is due, for sure, and yet travel bloggers have their limitations. This very blog constantly churns out material which is factually incorrect. Doesn’t that concern you? Where’s the value in that?
“If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…”
It looks very much like you may have lost perspective yourself.
“Alas, he knows even less about me, as he continues to falsely assert that I post/have posted under names like “Mikey” and “DeeCeeEss””
And yet that is so easily resolved, if the website operator in question manages and moderates efficiently. Why aren’t you blaming the blog owner?
There are readers herein who totally and utterly believe that @ DCS and myself are same person. Do you hold them accountable with equal contempt? Nothing I can say apparently can change their mind.
All of my posts herein go into a moderation, that in itself isn’t necessarily a problem except Gary Leff is not transparent on the matter.
“… does not a statement that DCS made like “WoH is the only major hotel loyalty program that does not offer its members the 4th or 5th award night free, which is quantifiably the single most valuable perk in hotel loyalty.” —does that not run directly in the face of another statement he made: ““There are no “superior” programs. There is only the ability of each individual to make the most of the benefits that their preferred program offers. Does that sound to you like I am claiming “superiority”?””
Look, mate, I’m not a philosophy major, only attended lectures by Sir Karl Popper (the “father” of modern scientific logical methodology), but IMO those two statements are not contradictory.
The simple reason is that the quantifiable perks in hotel loyalty are not limited to one perk or its absence.
Note that Gary Leff does not set out a robust framework to base meaningful comparisons between loyalty programs. He provides no direction to the debate other than the tiresome Hyatt best mantra.
If you refer back to the context, you’ll find that Gary Leff typically ignores the 4th / 5th night free features of non-Hyatt programs in comparative discussions, not just Hilton Honors but also Marriott Bonvoy and IHG.
IME such obfuscation is typical of Gary Leff. The recent article claiming that Hilton refuses upgrades at 44% of brands is a classic case of wanton misdirection.
It took me multiple attempts to get Gray Leff to state whether or not he included such features in his point valuations for hotel loyalty programs – even now he has avoided providing any detail. Why the secrecy when asked? Hint – it’s a house of cards waiting to fall apart.
“DCS is implying WOH is inferior since it doesn’t offer 5th night free.”
Hilton, Marriott and IHG offer a feature (4th / 5thnight free), which Hyatt does not. In that regard Hyatt is inferior. The point being made is that Gary Leff omits such in his comparative discussion.
I cited negative redemption value on some Hyatt cash plus points upgrades a couple of days ago and that little revelation was met with silence. Funny that.
Now, I‘ve got more pressing tasks than continuing to post on this particular blog, let alone the constant negativity and personal abuse, which is beyond tiresome, there’s just too much misinformation and misinformation in the articles herein to take them seriously – you’re obviously smart and have a sense of enquiry, two traits I respect and applaud. Keep your focus on those positives, dude!
As for having lost perspective… I’m nothing if not adaptable. But in making judgment calls, I rely not just on myself but on the views of others. Clearly, I’m not the only one who is highly critical of DCS and his penchant for extolling the virtues of Hilton (as he has experienced it). I’m also not the only one to point out how narcissistic he comes across, even if he’s not actually a narcissist.
Can’t really offer my agreement/disagreement when it comes to Gary. If there’s factually incorrect information, it should be corrected.
I don’t know what you want anyone to say about the negative redemption values on Hyatt. For better and worse, I don’t think they keep a tight ship on those points upgrade rates. So while I find exceptional value, you seem to have found negative value. Easy peasy is that you don’t book a rate that has negative redemption value.
When Lucky described why he likes Hyatt best, he too omits lack of 5th night free as a Con of the program, something DCS said was done “conveniently”. Hot take, but I don’t necessarily think it is a con. I stayed at the Al Maha last year, and if not for the 5th night free… which encouraged me to stay for that 5th night… I might’ve made different/better use of my time. I didn’t really need a 5th night there, and might’ve found being in Dubai doing something new more enjoyable. I can count on two hands how many hotel stays I’ve had in a decade that were 5 nights or more.
Cheers mate. FWIW, it’s pretty clear to me you’re not DCS.
*can’t offer agreement or disagreement when it comes to Gary, because it’s rare that I find myself on VFTW.
@JoePro
“As for having lost perspective… I’m nothing if not adaptable.”
Most excellent – celebrate that part of yourself.
“I rely not just on myself but on the views of others.”
Views can be powerful when guided by evidence. An incidental collection of commentators on a blog site can’t be presumed to be a panel of experts any more than a blogger becomes an expert by claiming that they are.
Estimates from surveys infer that only 22% Americans support the theory of evolution (40% are creationists and the remainder think it deity-directed). So, clearly, given the majority view point, we can reject the scientific evidence for evolution and join the belief driven position? Not in my world view.
Hint – people don’t like a safe and conventional position being challenged. IMHO you’ve proven that have the capacity to be smarter than that and apply a sense of inquiry.
“ I’m also not the only one to point out how narcissistic he comes across, even if he’s not actually a narcissist.”
Surely, it would be more productive to debate the ideas rather than facilitate an ugly case of online group bullying? Poke the dog, the dog bites bite, and that’s the dog’s fault, right?
“ If there’s factually incorrect information, it should be corrected.”
Yes, indeed – I’ve seen Lucky fix stuff, but sadly not herein.
“I don’t know what you want anyone to say about the negative redemption values on Hyatt.”
I don’t care whether they pick that up or don’t. For me it illustrates the absurdity of the trivial level of what passes for content and debate on these blogs, despite their potential to offer value to their readers.
If nothing else, that could be a cue for a timely blog article on why we always need do the basic math on the redemption value of points / miles, agreed?
“Easy peasy is that you don’t book a rate that has negative redemption value.”
Absolutely – the lesson for all readers is to do the math.
“When Lucky…too omits lack of 5th night free…but I don’t necessarily think it is a con”
Let’s not conflate a blogger writing a publicly published article comparing loyalty programs with obvious omissions with our own personal travel choices.
Let’s also not confuse a mathematically calculable value for such a facility with our own personal and highly subjective perceptions of value.
Those 4th / 5th night free features of some hotel loyalty programs exist and have the potential to offer members a significant elevation in the redemption value of their respective points, whether certain individual members avail themselves of that facility or not.
Omitting them from a comparative discussion inevitably shifts the comparison in favor of Hyatt over Hilton, Marriott, and IHG. Why not give the reader the full information and then let the reader decide what works for them?
As a concluding thought – @ DCS has run the math for hotel loyalty programs, that certain travel bloggers appear not to have done – for that reason alone I choose to take the curious position on what insights such math holds. To me that’s more important than any hits or misfires in how that information is delivered.
I have run some math for members of airline loyalty programs, and can see some similarities to @ DCS’s own work on hotel loyalty programs. Suffice to say the math that inherently lies within the loyalty system has implications that would be very challenging to the conventional and orthodox approach to loyalty espoused herein and by travel bloggers generally.
Hopefully, we will count your good self as an erudite ally in due course.
Be well, my friend….;)
“Alter ego” absolutely destroys @JoePro. Great minds think alike!
Some gems…
JoePro:
Alter ego:
AMEN!
JoePro:
Alter ego:
JoePro (previously)
Alter ego:
AMEN!
The jury is still out on “Mikey” because the resemblance is uncanny; JoePro may have simply learned from “Mikey”. However, you are “DeeCeeEss” and the fake “DCS” (at least one of them) because (a) when the fake “DCS” appropriated the moniker over at OMAAT for weeks, I noticed something very curious: JoePro was nowhere to be seen or, uncharacteristically, did not get in on the act until I said I was boycotting OMAAT over it. Then suddenly the fake “DCS” disappeared and JoePro returned.
More conclusively, it’s what the fake “DCS” or “DeeCeeEss” wrote repeatedly about that gave you away: constantly spoofing my purported sense of “superiority” as a LT Diamond and a “Hilton fanboy” — a theme that is pervasive in your comments here that ‘Alter Ego’ just utterly destroyed, and was in one of your very first comments up-thread after “uncloaking” from posting as “DeeCeeEss”
It’s the “sin” that “DeeCeeEss” or fake “DCS” is/was determined to make me pay for.
Last by not least, while I have many detractors, only one, you, is unhinged and dogged enough to follow me from forum to forum under a fake moniker to do nothing but post variants of the above.
Goodbye “DeeCeeEss”. You (either as “DeeCeeEss” or JoePro) and I are done. It’s just too personal without contributing to or advancing the case of the miles/points game.
Platy effectively compares DCS to a dog, but DCS thinks I’m the one who has been destroyed.
“Goodbye “DeeCeeEss”. You (either as “DeeCeeEss” or JoePro) and I are done.”
You’ve already said that about 8 times. Just like you keep saying you’re boycotting OMAAT.
I beg you to fulfill your promise once and for all, but I get the feeling you enjoy the attention too much.
To Platy: wait, what happened to having better things to do
To the point of “group bullying”… I don’t see any of this as a case of group bullying. DCS comes into the room, touts off his superiority, and people call him out for it. To soothe his own ego, he then makes ridiculous references to himself comparing himself to Wes Anderson, reemphasizes in big bold letters his lifetime Diamond Status, and then tells himself that the people responding to him are trolls who use alter Usernames. (Again, I’ve stated point blank that I only ever go by JoePro or Joe, and he demands I must be DeeCeeEss). Further, I pointed out that I landed on this forum from elsewhere, but he’s insistent that I’m here to follow him around. (I’m sure I’ve commented on Garys blog before, but couldn’t tell you the last time).
Could Gary/Ben verify it… sure. But then DCS could just go and accuse Ben/Gary of lying, or being those users themselves. I do think I once said you guys were the same (even though that’s not actually what I thought)… and I’ll tell you, that’s my problem, not Ben’s/Gary’s.
“Poke the dog”— comparing to DCS to a dog may be harsher than what I’ve written. This is an online forum, we have ample time to compose responses and choose how to respond. He responds like he’s superior.
As to fighting the ideas and not the person… well, we’ve been around that carousel. The math that DCS presents may be interesting at best, but as to whether it provides a valuable contribution to the points and miles world, I’d be surprised. If it were that special, it’d be headlining DCS’ own blog, not filling the comments of other’s. At the end of the day, I choose Hyatt because of the superior experiences I’ve enjoyed at them. I’d take a guess that travel bloggers (who you know, travel for a living) feel the same.
Anyways, Platy, I’d be happy to re-engage with you on these matters over at OMAAT in the future, where hopefully DCS fulfills his boycott and his promise to be done with me, and we can discuss/debate like two equals. You certainly seem like someone I would be willing to learn from.
Cheers again. (I think we’ve both exhausted our energies here, and I’m not returning to this particular post, FYI, so no need to respond here).
Don’t expect upgrades in North America and Europe. Best chance I had was almost always upgrade success in ASIA.
If you’re an American, just pay for the room you want. Nowadays, there are dozens of ways to fast track yourself to elite status ( i.e. shortcuts ). It’s not like you really “earned” that elite status with actual paid nights, so keep your expectations realistic. The savings you got for not paying actual nights can be used to book a better room. Still less costly for you over all.
So many excuses for hotel managers. They won’t upgrade you because of Corona, now we can’t upgrade you because of housekeeping. What’s the point of having a suite then? Why are you no hiring housekeeping? Because you want to reduce the your cost and you wont hire housekeeping.. Is all playing game.