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Hyatt’s new World of Hyatt program changes starting March 1 are surely controversial. There’s no change to earning and burning points, so it doesn’t change much for the non-elite member. However,
- It’s likely an improvement for someone staying 80, 90, 100 nights a year with more confirmed suite upgrades and a dedicated reservations representative (“My Hyatt Concierge”).
- It may be an improvement for the 60 night elite. Best available room upgrade will include standard suites, and confirmed suite upgrades can be used on award stays.
- For me it’s a wash. I already have a Private Line Agent, so a dedicated representative isn’t a help. I give up the 1000 point check-in amenity, and get free nights that expire after 120 days if not used. I’d much rather have the points and use them when I want. They’re even eliminating the turndown service guarantee and tightening up breakfast rules slightly.
- For someone staying 25 times, who used to make Diamond, the program is a huge downgrade. For someone staying 30 or even 50 nights a year it’s just not competitive — club level 4 times a year, compared to mid-tier status at Hilton and Marriott giving that or breakfast on most stays.
Park Hyatt Hadahaa Maldives
Hyatt Will Stop Competing For Guests Staying Less Than 60 Nights
Hyatt’s new elite program may be an improvement for top tier members, though we’ll have to wait for it to be up and running to know for sure. But status is harder to get. In fact,
- The program is worse for people who won’t make top tier
- It’s absurdly tough to make top tier relative to competitor chains
- And Hyatt seems not to bother competing for guests below the top tier.
To be sure, Hyatt’s top tier (“Globalist” under the March 1 program changes) remains the best top elite tier of any of the major hotel chains. They’re the only one that offers suite upgrades confirmed at booking and full restaurant breakfast — not continental breakfast — when a club lounge isn’t available.
Hyatt’s top tier is hard to earn than the competition. And Hyatt’s mid-tier is both harder to earn and less rewarding than the competition.
Marriott is thought to have the toughest top elite tier to earn. It requires staying 75 nights a year, compared to Hyatt’s 60 nights. However,
- You can get 15 nights a year just for having the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card. That evens them up. You can even spend on the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card to earn additional elite nights.
- The Ritz-Carlton Rewards Credit Card lets you earn top tier with $75,000 in a year in purchases — no stays required.
- In contrast Hyatt is eliminating the ability to earn elite nights towards top tier status with their credit card entirely.
- While Hyatt eliminates the ability to earn top elite status on stays, you can still earn Starwood Platinum status after 25 stays, and Starwood Platinum also matches to Marriott Platinum.
- And Marriott has over 5700 properties compared to just over 600 for Hyatt. It’s reasonably easy for most people to keep all their stays with Marriott. It takes more work to do 60 nights with Hyatt, and their footprint means that many who try to be loyal just can’t stay at Hyatt all the time.
Hyatt’s mid-tier, also harder to reach at 30 nights on a limited foot print, doesn’t come with lounge access or breakfast on most stays. In contrast you can get the Citi Hilton Reserve Card and that comes with gold status just for having the card, which means breakfast at most full service properties, and $40,000 in spend gets you top tier.
Hilton’s top tier isn’t as rewarding as Hyatt’s. But Hyatt’s is harder to get. And Hyatt just isn’t competitive below the top tier.
How Upgrades at Hyatt are Changing in 2017
Whether Hyatt’s new top tier is actually better than before really comes down to how:
- Upgrades work
- My Hyatt Concierge works
Hyatt has been strangely quiet about the dedicated reservations representative benefit. I’ve asked several people and gotten few concrete answers.
It’s far clearer how upgrades are changing, but there are some details that may not be so obvious. One obvious plus is that customers who spend 70, 80, 90, or 100 nights with Hyatt can receive an additional confirmed suite upgrade at each of those thresholds.
Park Hyatt Chennai
One of the most request benefits from Gold Passport over the past 7 years has been the ability to use confirmed suite upgrades on award stays. Things became easier when Hyatt introduced cash and points stays as paid stays, eligible for confirmed suite upgrades and even promotional earning. However true points stays are redeemable for suites but not upgradeable with these certificates.
That will change next year. Of course, with a requirement of 60 nights to earn Globalist status for 2018 (and in future years 55 nights to maintain it) and without the ability to earn some of those nights with credit card spend, it’s harder to justify free redemption nights at all. And with free nights replacing check-in amenity points, there are now new free nights that expire in 120 days to use or lose.
Welcome Chocolates at the Park Hyatt Abu Dhabi, Check-in Amenity of Choice Goes Away Starting March 1
While reward stays will be upgradable to suites with Globalist confirmed suite awards, free nights for earning Explorist and Globalist and the annual free credit card night will not be. As Hyatt explained to me,
Currently our system recognizes promotion awards and chart awards differently and therefore we’re not able to accommodate the use of suite upgrade awards on promotional awards. Being able to use suite upgrade awards on chart free night awards accommodates the majority of awards our members use.
Hyatt’s current terms and conditions list the hotels where you cannot use a confirmed suite upgrade.
Park Hyatt Beaver Creek Resort, Park Hyatt Maldives Hadahaa, Park Hyatt Sydney, Andaz Tokyo, Hyatt Regency Kyoto, Hyatt Regency Phuket Resort, Hyatt Regency Tulsa, Hyatt Regency Wichita, Hyatt Paris Madeleine, Hyatt Herald Square, Hyatt Key West Resort and Spa, Hyatt Manila City of Dreams, Hyatt Santa Barbara, Hyatt Residence Club resorts, Hyatt Place and Hyatt House hotels and M life resorts.
The new terms and conditions add one hotel to the list — Hyatt Centric South Beach Miami — but Hyatt House properties become eligible for confirmed suite upgrades.
The new benefit that makes ‘best room available at check-in’ include standard suites is full of weasel words.
Globalists will receive the best room available at the time of check-in at Hyatt hotels and resorts, including standard suites and rooms with Club lounge-access. The best room available will be determined by the applicable hotel or resort in its sole discretion and may vary from stay-to-stay. The “best room” may, but will not necessarily be, of a room type/category higher than that booked by the Member. Best-room-available benefit includes only standard suites (where available), which are defined as rooms within each participating hotel’s or resort’s introductory suite category. Specialty, Premier, Presidential, Diplomatic, and other suites other than standard suites are not included in this benefit. Not valid at Hyatt Place, Hyatt House, or Hyatt Residence Club hotels and resorts or at M life Resorts.
The key here is “The best room available will be determined by the applicable hotel or resort in its sole discretion and may vary from stay-to-stay.”
At Starwood, a member is entitled to a standard suite if it is available at check-in for the full length of their stay, period. If a hotel has a standard suite available and ready (cleaned) and they don’t provide it to the Platinum member, they are actually acting against the program’s terms.
At Hyatt there’s no recourse. If a hotel holds back a standard suite because they want to sell it, or for that matter for any reason or no reason, they haven’t broken program rules and the member has no recourse because the benefit is in the property’s sole discretion to provide.
In practice upgrades to suites may happen, they may not happen, or they may work better at some hotels than others. We won’t really know until the benefit launches March 1. But it’s very much not a guarantee the way Hyatt’s confirmed suite upgrades are.
Hyatt has also crippled suite upgrades.
Look in NYC – none of the “suites” are actually suites. Heck – in new york you can’t even find a “suite upgrade” that has a bedroom with a door on it. And to top that off the majority of the suites are just re-labeled corner or larger rooms.
Slim or none: Likelihood of either a status match or some sort of challenge for previous Diamonds to requalify as ‘Globalist’ in 2017, short of the 55 nights or whatever the new threshold is?
I’ve stayed in 3 Hyatts in the last few months, Park Hyatt Paris, Park Hyatt Sydney, and Kuala Lumpur. All of them have had some impactful inconsistencies. I know I’m not the customer they are looking for, but they have been removed from my go to list, and I’ve deleted their app from my phone. I do have their credit card, and I’m thinking of not renewing it, but I have found the free night useful for stays at airports. Otherwise disappointed.
Unless your entire life resolves around New York, Tokyo, and London, it’s a major PITA to stay loyal to the World of Hurt. And at times when their footprint is nothing but Andaz or PH (e.g. Vienna), be prepared to cough up with big buck$$$ just to even stay at their properties.
Unless someone else is footing the bill, it becomes a huge hassle just for a bunch of suite upgrades.
Be prepared for some trolling comments about “there are NO upgrade differences between programs”, “Hilton is VIBRANT and thus has the best top tier”, blah blah blah BS BS
With Starwood and Hilton Gold it’s not even worth pushing for anything else. I worked hard to hit Hyatt Diamond with 25 stays, and that pushed all possible business from me to Hyatt, but now I’ll quit worrying about it. And it’s a shame since there are multiple Hyatts near my remote office but SPG properties will give me a bit of a drive now…
As someone who’s never going to be more than a Platinum (or whatever idiotic name it’s called under the new system), Hyatt has come off my radar as a chain to stay with, unless it’s a special one-off because of complete lack of alternative availability (e.g., in NYC) or for a family stay where destination matters most (e.g., Lake Tahoe). I’m Marriott/Starwood Gold and Hilton Gold through various affiliate relationships, and Marriott and Hilton are by far better right now.
I suspect others will reach similar conclusions at the lower tiers.
I think Hyatt is in for a world of hurt. The fact that properties aren’t really required to give away a suite upgrade is a major setback in my opinion–especially for the type of road warriors or very affluent customers the new program is obviously trying to attract. If Marriott decides to match the Starwood benefit for its highest tier elites with suite upgrades, then MARRIOTT will have a better elite suite upgrade benefit than Hyatt! That would have been unthinkable before. That would keep a lot of Hyatt and SPG elites in the Marriott fold–since there is a reasonable chance for suite upgrades at FAR more properties in the massive Marriott portfolio–at every tier imaginable.
the world is getting smaller in terms of style of management, thanks to you know what. I’m a native Chinese, these sort of picky nifty is a way of life for us. You’ll never see anything like we have in the states, where commercial, capitalistic based business gives out these kind of perks to it’s customers. No big fat cc sign-up whatsoever, my relatives/friends can only ahh-woo every time I mention this to them. they must have hired some chinese consultants now this place is really feels like home.
They will see the impact in 2017 at Hyatt Places and Hyatt Houses — there zero incentive to stay there. I will book Hyatt flags and above and enjoy one year of Globalist benefits. 2018 all my business goes elsewhere. Even if I wanted to try, the footprint makes it difficult for most to accomplish. And lower tiers not very valuable.
@henry LAX: I totally agree with your comments. I have been trying to migrate from IHG to Hyatt for the past few years and have totally failed because Hyatt has so few hotels available, or when there is a place available the IHG options are much better.
It’s so bad that I am not even able to use my free Hyatt night this year because I am not going anywhere that I can use it at.
10 years as a Diamond working very hard to drive out of my way to stay at a Hyatt. At 47 nights, 29 stays for the year which is my usual. These changes to Hyatt’s program are forcing me to look elsewhere. SPG/Marriott here I come!!!!!
Under the current program, if two members who each have Diamond status book back-to-back stays and combine reservations so they don’t have to change rooms, is each member still entitled to a welcome (points) amenity?
There is something quite deliberate about forcing top tier for 60 nights, but only 55 on renewal. I really would have to stay 63 nights to use the free night certs, and I don’t see how I’d ever use free nights if I want to requalify.
Yikes! My Hyatt Diamond membership has been the one bastion of stability in my otherwise eroding travel benefits. EP at American I think now means Every Passenger – I wince as I watch the small mob at each gate groveling for upgrades, sometimes with 16 seat F cabins all checked in and 18 on the “list”. But Hyatt? What does anyone suppose they’re thinking? Like many of you – I have had to go well out of my way to book on business trips – and even then I manage 50 nights a year or so. Oh well…I have never been a fan of globalization, but for 2017 I will be a Globalist looking to use up as many of my stash of Hyatt points as I possibly can. Take heart, the Maldives and the Place Vendome are still well worth it. And to Nadine – I must respectfully disagree on your New York comment – the Grand Hyatt on 42nd has “junior suites” that are more than just larger rooms. The finishes are very high end and the beds are fantastic. Good luck all!
@tiffany I assume by ‘combine reservations’ you just mean get the hotel to block a single room for both stays, and check you into both reservations, then yes
Nights requirement going up would be more forgivable if they counted award nights. But they still don’t! So there’s a disincentive to use all-points stays — points+cash stays are much more valuable now.
Not being able to upgrade free Globalist or credit card nights is absurd! Credit card nights can be upgraded now and, I’m sure, most people were going to try to use free Globalist night as part of a longer stay.
Also, people should remember that in 2017 we will be required to stay 60 nights to requalify for Globalist status even if we are Diamond this year. The smaller 55 night requalification will be for 2018 and later.
The 60 nights is just for paid stays. Considering that some of the award nights expire, and the point of points is to acquire additional nights, it’s really a 65-or-70-night Hyatt commitment, with 60 of them paid.
As has been pointed out, the biggest loser will be Hyatt House and Hyatt Place franchisees. Every one of their qualifying-for-Diamond reservations will evaporate, with an unknown number of replacements, if any, for the new program.
This post is the epitome of what’s wrong with travel blogosphere. Full of bogus claims that won’t pass the laugh test. Fortunately, it does not seem like anyone needs my help this time to repudiate a truly mediocre program. The comments, almost 100% of them, are already quite eloquent.
I am right now enjoying dining around town so that I can have enough “transactions” to make VIP Member in United MileagePlus Dining program (why later), so I gotta go, but I will be back later to give the “Thought Leader in Travel” the grade school-level English comprehension test that he and the entire lot have been failing for years, and he just failed again for the millionth in this post.
Yia Sou (Greek spoken here, Under the (George Washington) Bridge!
G’day!
Isn’t this old news? We reached the same conclusion months ago on flyertalk.
Personally I think lack of breakfast/lounge access <60 nights is a big minus for many as it is easy to get the same benefit at Marriott (via UA status) or Hilton (via credit card). Also there is no shortcut to Diamond or whatever it's called now compared to Marriott and Hilton. So Hyatt is bound to succeed in culling its top elite ranks, but in doing so is likely to lose significant business from the rest. Really anyone with the Chase card has no incentive to select Hyatt unless they are road warriors.
I remain amazed that anyone cares about this stuff. There are so many hotels in the world: why insist on being loyal to one (fairly small) brand? Grab the free mid-level credit card status on as many brands as possible, use hotelhustle to find redemption values using credit card points, and stay at any hotel (chain or non-chain) that meets your needs (quality, location, price) for each stay.
This ain’t rocket science. It’s obvious.
Hyatt is going in the wrong direction. SPG is growing in footprint with Marriott hotels and they make it more difficult to qualify for Hyatt top tier status? If nothing changes I’m booking away from Hyatt. Low and mid tier benefits are lacking.
Can the smart ones out there tell us how the following complimentary suite upgrade policies are different?
SPG policy on complimentary upgrades:
Platinum members receive upgrades to the best available rooms, including Standard Suites, subject to availability for the entire length of stay at time of check-in.
HHonors policy on complimentary suite upgrades:
Diamond HHonors guests will receive upgrades to preferred rooms, including Standard Suites, based on availability at the time of check-in. [Marriott Rewards’ policy is similar]
World of Hyatt policy on complimentary suite upgrades:
Globalists will receive the best room available at the time of check-in at Hyatt hotels and resorts, including standard suites and rooms with Club lounge-access.
Maybe you should stop cutting and pasting the Hilton T&Cs to serve your needs.
On the SPG page, it’s incredibly transparent.
Click on the HH Diamond link, and it lists all the standard benefits…but “Space-available upgrade to a preferred room” for all the brands. That’s it.
Click on a further link at the bottom of the page, scroll through lots of fine print, and you get to:
At Waldorf Astoria® Hotels & Resorts, Conrad® Hotels & Resorts, Hilton Hotels & Resorts, Canopy™ by Hilton, Curio – A Collection by Hilton, and DoubleTree by Hilton™ properties, Diamond HHonors guests will receive upgrades to preferred rooms, based on availability at the time of check-in (excludes Napua Tower at Grand Wailea and Imperial Floor at Rome Cavalieri). Upgrades for Diamond HHonors guests may include the next-best available room from the room type booked. Upgrades may also be rooms with desirable views, corner rooms, rooms on high floors, rooms with special amenities, rooms on Executive Floors, or suites, as identified by each property. Upgrades exclude executive suites, villas and specialty accommodations (which may include, but not limited to, “Vista” and “Villa” accommodation types), subject to the discretion of the hotel. Group reservations and certain rates are not eligible for suite accommodations and may not be eligible for complimentary upgrades. All upgrades are granted on a space-available basis for the entire stay, as determined at the time of check-in. Preferred rooms are identified by each individual property and may vary within each brand. Upgrades will be given only for one room for the member, regardless of additional rooms the member may have purchased at or after the time of booking. The following brands do not offer complimentary upgrades: Embassy Suites™, Hilton Garden Inn®, Hampton by Hilton™, Homewood Suites by Hilton®, Home2 Suites by Hilton®, and Hilton Grand Vacations®.
So stop pretending already that they’re perfectly identical…no one here is buying your BS no matter how many times you cut and paste the same nonsense.
Links for the above:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/about/index.html?categoryId=brand.benefits.platinum#InnerPage (suite language is the third bullet point listed)
Main HH Diamond page (which of course makes no mention of suites):
http://hhonors3.hilton.com/en/explore/benefits/index.html
(do a search for “suite” and the only place it comes up is in the brand names (e.g., Embassy Suites)
Click on the link buried deep in the page, to get to another page which “spells” out the weak benefits:
http://hhonors3.hilton.com/en/terms/index.html
The predictable answer above is WRONG. Anyone else care to give it a better shot?
BTW, I was dining out last night to have enough “transactions” to make VIP Member in United MileagePlus Dining program because it would enable me to earn EIGHT (8) Chase UR points (UA miles) per $ spent on dining at gazillion participating establishments in Manhattan by “double dipping”, as I describe in this original post: https://goo.gl/vTNXsT
My follow-up post with links documenting everything I copied will hopefully go through soon.
And not surprising, despite the exact T&Cs I quoted from the HH page that clearly show the burying of any suite language, you obfuscate the issue.
Must be lonely spitting into the wind year after year.
All predictable answers will be wrong, which is why I specifically invited “the smart ones out there” to respond, and not just anybody.
LOL…I guess “reading comprehension” is a bit different in Texarkana
Responses from anyone who is completely free of the “ravages of intelligence” , like “Village Idiots”, are now specifically dis-invited.
Post your web links for your so-called identical T&Cs so the wisdom of the crowds can judge
Of course, you did such a hatchet job on the editing that no one will ever see that phrase as written for Hilton
Hyatt has 679 properties and not 600.
THIS WAS THE CHALLENGE:
Can the smart ones out there tell us how the following complimentary suite upgrade policies are different?
SPG policy on complimentary upgrades:
Platinum members receive upgrades to the best available rooms, including Standard Suites, subject to availability for the entire length of stay at time of check-in.
HHonors policy on complimentary suite upgrades:
Diamond HHonors guests will receive upgrades to preferred rooms, including Standard Suites, based on availability at the time of check-in. [Marriott Rewards’ policy is similar]
World of Hyatt policy on complimentary suite upgrades:
Globalists will receive the best room available at the time of check-in at Hyatt hotels and resorts, including standard suites and rooms with Club lounge-access.
___________________
Because, except for the wrong answers provided by a flailing and desperate “village idiot”, no one seems willing to take the challenge, I will give the simple correct answer and then elaborate.
It was not a trick question and under any other circumstances anyone would have provided the correct answer, which is that THOSE COMPLIMENTARY SUITE UPGRADE POLICIES ARE IDENTICAL.
The way to get around the usual noise, like that made by the only commenter clueless enough to take challenge, was to reduce the policy statements to their minimum so that they are directly comparable. What threw EVERYONE off about the SPG policy was that, on purpose or inadvertently, it did not spell out explicitly what “best available rooms” meant, whereas HHonors and Marriott Rewards — the more mature and stable programs — did spell out what they meant by “preferred rooms” or the types of rooms that would be considered an upgrade, up to standard suites. Bloggers latched onto SPG policy’s lack of clarity and re-interpreted it as “entitling” or “guarantying” Plats a suite upgrade if available, oblivious to the fact that hotels had the final say on what was a suite and whether or not it was available as an upgrade.
The best way to know whether or not a loyalty policy is being interpreted correctly is by the volume of complaints it generates from members claiming its “violation” by individual properties. Whereas, because of their clarity, you will find very, very few instances of HHonors or Marriott Rewards members complaining that a property failed to upgrade them to a suite when suites were clearly available, a quick search of the web reveals virtual “reams and reams” of complaints by SPG loyalists about properties that failed to upgrade platinum members to a suite. The straightforward explanation for why this has persisted is that SPG wanted it both ways: (a) leave the impression that their complimentary suite upgrade policy was a “differentiating” feature of the program, as touted by bloggers, knowing fully that the interpretation was erroneous; and (b) quietly enforce the correct interpretation in the background! The result has not been pretty, as self-entitled top SPG elites, many of them self-anointed ‘travel gurus’, took to the airwaves to denounce SPG’s duplicity…for correctly interpreting their own policy!
Here are some of my very favorite examples of a policy misinterpretation going awry, likely because a program wanted to have their cake and eat it too:
2014 — “Starwood Platinum Suite Upgrades: Why Does It Have To Be A Fight?”: https://goo.gl/SPwAfu
2012 — “I am Sick of Arguing for Starwood Upgrades”: https://goo.gl/elT44P
2013 — “Platinum SPG, best room upgrade: please change the language”: https://goo.gl/r80e8Q
2015 — “Destroying Loyalty: Starwood’s Lies & Expectation Management”: https://goo.gl/IFTRNM
Well, you get the picture, which did not include thousands of comments by travel gurus’ sycophants chiming in with their own stories about how such or such Starwood property violated “the policy.”
Another policy that was simply made up by travel bloggers and was more egregious in its hubris because it was not even in the T&C, was that HGP suite upgrade awards are not “capacity controlled”, meaning that if a suite is bookable with cash, it is available for upgrade using a DSU. However, things did not work that way and, like the misinterpretation of the SPG upgrade policy; this resulted in reams of complaints accusing HGP of “violating” a policy they never even stated!
Bottom line: The next time you read a blogpost claiming that SPG Platinum elites are “guaranteed” or “entitled to” suite upgrades if they are available, just remember this commentary [that’s what erudite comments are called in academia]. Like under every loyalty program, individual Starwood properties have always had the final say on deciding what’s “best room” or a “suite” and whether or not it was available as an elite upgrade, something that bloggers have usually conveniently left out in claiming the “guarantee” or “entitlement” [emphasis added]:
“…[s]ubject to availability at check-in for the length of the stay, provided the room was not booked through a pre-paid third-party channel. Specialty Suites such as, but not limited to, premium view, Presidential, Honeymoon, and multiple bedroom suites are excluded. This benefit does not apply to all-suite hotels. BEST ROOMS ARE IDENTIFIED BY EACH PROPERTY and may not include upgraded Towers level accommodations unless Towers level accommodations are booked originally. The upgrade benefit is available for one room for the personal use of the Member only, regardless of the number of additional rooms purchased by the Member. This benefit is not offered at Aloft and Element properties.”
This concludes the documentation of how for years and years self-anointed ‘travel gurus’ and their followers have flunked a simple, grade school-level English, comprehension test. 😉
G’day!
You’re just another troll until you actually post the link that you claim the Hilton suite language originates from. Case closed. We’ll be waiting.
(oh, and while no shortage of posters tell you you’re wrong in this case, I haven’t seen a single one coming to your defense on this issue…quite telling)
Back to your dark cave now…
Oops! I provided the wrong link for a key complaint about the misinterpreted SPG elite suite upgrades policy, grabbing the link for another post that I had just read. Here’s the correct link:
2014 — “Starwood Platinum Suite Upgrades: Why Does It Have To Be A Fight?”: https://goo.gl/WnzdzX
@UA-NYC — Pssst. You are just making yourself more ridiculous, if that’s even possible. I am a lot of things, but “a troll” definitely ain’t one of them. I am not surprised that you cannot figure out on your own, even though I stated it, that I shortened the HHonors policy so that it is directly comparable with SPG’s, which unhelpfully abstracted what was meant by “best available rooms”, and was the source of the misinterpretation. What you need to ask yourself is whether or not the shortened HHonors policy is consistent with the original. The answer is “yes” because if it were not, it would have been the first thing that would have been pounced on. Another way to accomplish the same thing would have been to stretch out the SPG policy so that it would spell out what it means by “best available rooms” (I’d, in fact, started out doing that), but it would have been messier and likely more open to challenge. Simplicity is golden: shortening the HHonors policy with retention of the original meaning made things crystal clear — except for you, as I would expect.
I left very little wiggle room for continued misinterpretation of the SPG suite upgrade policy by providing stark evidence of the ridiculous and absurd consequences of the misinterpretation, using a device known as “reductio or argumentum ad adsurdum.”
With that, I am done here as I must get a whole bunch of stuff done before leaving tomorrow on my month-long 2016 Year-end Asian Escapade(tm).
I’ll be in touch!
Once again, you fail to provide any documentation whatsoever of the Hilton upgrade policy. There’s nothing real about what you posted…as usual. You take your opinions and present as facts
We all will (or won’t actually) hold our breath until the link comes.
Look, you are clearly too stupid to realize this, but I have just killed the bogus claim about the purported superiority of the SPG elite suite upgrades policy once and for all. You will go on and on about this but everyone else is a lot smarter and has already clearly seen the argument, which I have also posted here https://goo.gl/D5c39r to elicit counter views or challenges, but do not expect many that are worthwhile [meaning different from yours]. Sooner or later you’ll let go, just like you went on and on challenging “HH Diamond Force” as a powerful perk even though the evidence was incontrovertible. Ultimately you ran out of steam because no one joined you — like here.
It is over. Get that and move one.
Talk to you all from PVG!
Nice summary Gary. You’ve mined the FT thread well 😉
I’ll be sad to leave Hyatt, there are some properties and benefits I really love. Particularly Andaz 5th and the Asian properties.
But I can’t do 60 Hyatt stays and as many have noted, there’s no point in mid-tier Hyatt status.
Hmmm… it looks like a comment I submitted this morning is still being in moderation…
It’s amazing how much contempt I have towards someone who is- well, insane. I really shouldn’t care in the least.
I’m just going to settle it by saying you aren’t aware you are incorrect. The perfect explanation is somehow beyond you… that HHonors T&C “Upgrades may also be… suites” is not the same as “An upgrade to best available room at check-in — including a Standard Suite.” Because you are somehow beyond reproach. (or at least your precious program is)
YOU are the one failing a simple English test. “May”: noun. expressing possibility.
Just because you conveniently leave the word “may” out of the ACTUAL T&C when you say “Diamond HHonors guests will receive upgrades to preferred rooms, including Standard Suites, based on availability at the time of check-in.” doesn’t make it true.
It doesn’t matter what your experience has been, how you interpret it, or what you believe about HHonors “maturity”. By the words of the T&C- and that alone- Hilton can deny you a suite upgrade and instead simply put you in a nicer room than the one you’ve booked for no reason other than “just because”.
And SPG cannot.
Taking it a level further and suggesting that hotels can just lie about the availability and how would the customer know?- such a thing bears no relevance on this conversation.
As far as what individual hotels actually do… Hyatt, SPG, Hilton. There’s not enough evidence out there to prove anything in terms of the programs as a whole. You’ve found a few clippings here and there about people being denied suites at SPG and you like to boast that Hilton’s policy beats Hyatt… but given Hyatt’s policy of best room excluding suites, I shouldn’t have gotten any of the numerous suite upgrades that I have.
You are making up falsity after falsity to support your claims. That’s all this is. Falsities. Falsity about Hyatt DSU capacity controls, falsities about the T&C’s.
If someone is told by Hyatt that DSU is capacity controlled, such a thing does not mean that they are capacity controlled.
If you bat 90% suite upgrade, such a thing does not mean that Hilton gives Diamond members unlimited suite upgrades.
If an SPG hotel refuses to give a platinum a suite, such a thing does not mean SPG’s policy does not include (I know, a double negative) an upgrade to a suite every time one is available.
@Kacee I haven’t read any flyertalk threads on the subject for whatever it’s worth
@Joe –Wrong answer. We won’t play that game again where everything anyone says is okay and a matter of opinion. Opinions are wrong all the time and you are wrong. Support your claim factually or be gone.
The English is simple — I have authored or co-authored more than 150 scientific paper in which the language has to be absolutely crystal clear, so this whole charade is playing right in my element. The evidence is clear. “He said”, “she said” is no longer valid. You have to do better, and on this issue, there is no “better” than what I have already put out. I will take on anyone who claims otherwise and prove them to be wrong.
In the mean while, I will be up packing until by car service arrives at 5 am. So, keep talking!
G’day!
“by car service…” is “my car service…”
DCS “supports” his “facts” by continuing to avoid any sort of links backing up his (false) claims.
Man, you are stupid. There is no link. Everyone got that, and anyone who wants to the original can get there easily. That was not the point. I PARAPHRASED the upgrade policy statements so that they are comparable. Everyone but you got that, which is why there is no outcry It was legit. Look at the statement I paraphrased and tell everyone why it does not convey the meaning of the original. That’s the only way you will get credibility.
I am not even sure why I bother, but I am beginning to feel sorry for this guy because no one can be that clueless.
G’day!
I don’t understand how ANYONE can get so worked up over the nuanced difference between a couple of hotel programs and their suite upgrades language.
Read the papers. We’ve got REAL problems to fret over!
@Steve Hall — Welcome to travel blogosphere, where 4pm checkout “guarantee” assumes mythical importance! Although there is no such thing, suite upgrades must be “guaranteed” or “confirmed” and not complimentary, as all suite upgrades ultimately are. One must be “entitled”.
Got the picture? That’s the one I determined to take down, piece by piece 😉
@Steve Hall – you could say that about pretty much any hobbyist site…people come here to take a break from that 🙂
Point is though, many of us are rightfully calling out a repeatedly intellectually dishonest poster who posts his opinions as “facts”, and then furthermore despite being called out on it, refuses to even source his “factpinions” from publically available sources. But hey, we all laugh at him so his derangement is a source of amusement.