A United Airlines pilot refused to operate flight 1679 from San Francisco to Cancun on Tuesday, and the flight was delayed four hours, after a passenger smoked pot in the lavatory. They were afraid that second hand smoke exposure would cause them to test positive if subjected to a random drug test.
First our flight was delayed due to technical issues, then waiting for the paperwork to get completed someone smoked weed in the front bathrooms. They got removed from the flight then sat on the plane for 40 ish min waiting for crew to figure out what to do. Crew was concerned they got exposed so we deplaned and are awaiting new crew.
Quote from the captain, “I have 30 years left of my career at United, I’m not willing to risk getting drug tested when I get to Houston”
Passengers were given $15 meal vouchers. That doesn’t go far in the San Francisco airport. And to be clear,
- The likelihood of testing positive from secondhand marijuana smoke in a well-ventilated aircraft is laughably low.
- Yet I still understand the irrational fear given FAA drug testing regulations and zero-tolerance airline policies that punish even inadvertent exposure if a positive test occurs.
Virtually any detectable level of marijuana metabolite in urine is considered a failed test, regardless of reason. However secondhand cannabis smoke does not cause positive urine tests at DOT thresholds except in the most extreme conditions – think hot-boxed room, hours of exposure, no ventilation.
Remember that once the plane gets going it will benefit from HEPA air filtration, the pilot is in the cockpit and the passenger was in a lavatory (though it’s unclear which lavatory was used). Any exposure would be brief.
Nonetheless, a positive test could end a pilot’s career after a lengthy investigation and loss of certification. Without evidence of passive exposure the pilot also cannot expect union protection. The pilot also has a duty to report any impairment concerns – if they even believe they might have some risk of impairment they are reported to self-report it.
Good for the Captain !
If I was the pilot, I would have made the same decision. I think it’s totally reasonable. Why risk it? And with the stories about pilots drinking, etc., it’s refreshing to see someone not wiling to take any chances. Now, where is my lighter?
Isn’t a plane waiting to leave not “well ventilated?”
Ah, another so-called Journo who thinks he’s a doctor and knows exactly how pot smoke doesnt affect those around him. There is zero chance that I would fly as a crewmember on this flight.
I understand the pilot’s concern. The idiot smoking pot in the bathroom should be sued for the impact on the airline and each of the passengers. Publicly bankrupting a few of the morons misbehaving on airlines — and making the fact widely known — may help with behavior on planes. Yes, the airline probably won’t recover the costs of the lawsuit, but in the long run if it reduces the number of such incidents, it would be worth it.
Can’t blame the pilot. Idiot passenger? Yes. Pilot? No.
I wonder how long he will stay grounded? It could conceivably stay in his system for weeks. Given the circumstance and his being upfront and responsible about it, there should be a solution. Perhaps a test with no repurcussions – if he is clean then good to go. If it is positive then he remains on the ground until clean. It may even be a workers comp situation. This and the pilot who recently canceled a flight to Hawaii because he didn’t trust the plane after mechanics saying they would fix it later, really shows the professionalism of most crew.
Congrats on getting your MD specializing on Medical marijuana especially the testing aspect. No you can legally give. Medical advice along with the past legal advice and aviation advice. Pilot, DR and attorney all in one. Impressive.
You are quite the renaissance man.
:.)
I agree with others that the pilot made a prudent decision. Even if the odds of a positive test (or even being selected for random testing) are very low the downside if it did occur is massive. Better to get a new plane (clean that one thoroughly) and crew. Shouldn’t have been a huge issue at SFO to get a replacement and pilot was well within his rights to decline to fly.
Only person passengers that were inconvenienced should be upset with it is the idiot that decided to smoke weed in an airplane lavatory (and BTW was apparently also dumb enough to take weed into Mexico). Hopefully not only were they taken off the plane but also charged (weed is legal in CA but not in public locations and certainly not on the grounds of an airport or plane). United should also sue them for damages due to the delay.
I live in Canada, where smoking marijuana is legal. However, it would not be legal for someone to smoke marijuana in an airplane bathroom. Nor would it be legal for a pilot to operate a plane after having smoked marijuana. Under the circumstances, I understand the pilot’s decision.
I oversaw drug testing for years. There is ZERO probability that second hand smoke in a ventilated jet is going to show up on a drug test.
WIMP
@PHL/SFO, I’m not sure it’s only a matter of inhaling secondhand smoke. What if the weed smoker in the loo stashed some of that weed there, for whatever reason, and then the pilot knowingly took off and landed in Cancun? Could the pilot not be arrested for trafficking, because he had advance knowledge that there was an (illegal) substance onboard?
The pilot made the right decision.
100% support the pilot. Not sure why any sane person wouldn’t back the Captain here? Some ass-clown decides that he can smoke pot in the lav. Which, BTW, is against Federal Law. Hopefully, the person(s) were immediately arrested and put on the no-fly list. It takes a lot of schooling/training to become a commercial pilot…I wouldn’t risk that career for a second either.
Sounds like a good call; and after all, it really is the captain’s call, isn’t it? Like, regardless of this particular incident, but if a pilot even just ‘feels’ like something is ‘off,’ they can call out. We might have saved people had more folks ‘talked it out.’ While it is also entertaining, see Nathan Fielder’s second season of The Rehearsal.
The Pilot made the right call IMHO. Any exposure = don’t fly. That’s important not just for his career, but also for the lives of all on the aircraft.
Totally support the pilot. Reason why commercial aviation has been so safe has been because of the “we do not take ANY chances” mentality that has been drilled into the minds of professionals.
This is unrelated but this story reminds me that captain and dispatcher are the only two people who can cancel a flight.
Right call for sure. Weed has an oily smoke that can cling to your hair and clothing. I would want a shower and fresh clothing. The selfish tool that smoked in the lav should receive some jail time for this.
Would that pilot test positive, highly likely no but I get where he’s coming from. Even the slightest chance could end his career and job. Put on the blame on the moron lowlife that smoked pot in the lav.
THC, tobacco, or any smoke isn’t ‘great’ for your health, even second-hand.
I still hold flight crews, and specifically flight attendants, their unions, the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA (AFA), and members, in high regard, specifically for their significant contribution to the end of smoking on flights (and in restaurants, and society at-large, at least in the USA). It’s been 35 years since their victory, and it’s undoubtedly saved countless lives and made for a better, healthier flight experience and society. Thank you.
Sadly, *some* of you on here regularly disparage both flight crews and unions. Shame on you.
And for those of you who still smoke/vape, etc., you don’t have to. It’s an expensive addiction, and it costs you and all of us way more than just the packs; while it’s not ‘easy’ to quit, it’s worthwhile for you and those around you.
I’m very glad the majority support the pilot – as I do.
the issue is not near as much about whether 2nd hand smoke could impact a drug test but that the passenger knowingly disobeyed federal regulations about smoking in the lav; if a passenger has that kind of disregard for laws on the ground, why should the captain risk the possibility this person wouldn’t do something just as bad if not worse in the air?
and, it is entirely possible that Mexico could make a case if the person was stopped on arrival and the person says that the crew knew he was smoking weed before they ever left.
and this flight was just one of UA’s delayed flights yesterday due to the failure of their weight and balance system right at evening rush hour.
They are recovering today and took ownership for the expenses but, on the heels of AS’ IT failure not long ago, it shows that airline IT systems are still subject to any number of issues.
I totally disagree with 30west. He exemplifies the immature thinking of these asshats who can’t stop their self-centered attitudes (smoking marijuana in a plane’s lab). The pilots made the only decision that they could: pulling themselves out of the flight rotation until they know that they are “clean”. Some first-rate b-hole chose to violate the law and inconvenience everyone. You wanna smoke dope? Fine. Just do it on your own time in a place that doesn’t create problems for a planeload of passengers and crew. Dumbasses.
EdSparks58
If the pax got exposed to marihuana smoke, $15 meal vouchers seems kinda low.
@phl/sfo:. I too worked in drug testing for years and you are correct that there was zero chance of him testing positive but there is reason to be an ass. Educate instead of degrading. 95% of people don’t know this because our government LIED to us for decades about marijuana exposure, effects and how long it stays in our system. The author is correct, you need to set in a marijuana smoke hot box for a couple hrs to test positive.
@EdSparks58 is right to admonish @30west, who mocks Gary (and fellow commenters) on their reactions and ‘hot takes.’ Folks, don’t list. Don’t self-censor. Say whatever you wanna say. You don’t have to be a literal ‘expert’ to speak or share. Your thoughts have value here. If you disagree with someone, please engage, challenge them, ideally on-substance, as opposed to mere ad hominems, or juts ignore them.
Ah, *listen (not ‘list’); speaking of lists… how’s that whole Epstein case goin? Still ‘nothin to see there’? @Coffee Please, where you at?
There’s another angle you forgot. What about enthusiastic Federales, north or south of the border, looking to make a collar on a pilot when the drug dog points at a pilot who smells like weed?
San Francisco has some world class addiction help. Maybe the selfish pothead should look into it (yes, that’s addictive behavior when you’re so lacking in self-discipline that you can’t help but get your fix in a *”#$ airliner lav before the flight even leaves).
Good for the pilot for embarrassing this person.
It is not just second hand smoke. What about the pot ashes in the bathroom. The pilot uses that bathroom and then some of the ashes get on the clothes. Pilots fly everywhere all the time, maybe in some country where pot is more illegal, a dog sniffs it on the Pilots clothes. Could be an issue. He made the right decision.
Obviously, the aircraft needs to be taken out of service and thoroughly decontaminated. With the passenger billed for costs and loss of revenue.
@Tim Dunn, you wrote “the issue is not near as much about whether 2nd hand smoke could impact a drug test but that the passenger knowingly disobeyed federal regulations about smoking in the lav; if a passenger has that kind of disregard for laws on the ground, why should the captain risk the possibility this person wouldn’t do something just as bad if not worse in the air?”
Can you explain why you are concerned that the passenger might “do something just as bad if not worse in the air” if, per the passenger quoted by Gary, he/she had already been removed from the plane?
OMG, what if the pilot got coke residue on his hands from handling cash? He should get a couple months paid vaction while he recovers.
I think it was National Geographic To Catch a Smuggler New Zealand. A young woman had trace amounts of an illegal drug (not pot) on the outside of her backpack. They investigated for a while before letting her into the country. She was totally innocent. The trace amounts came from a rave she had gone to a few days before.
LOL: According to 2009 CNN 90% of US bills have traces of cocaine.
In today’s world, why couldn’t the person who smoked, simply take an edible like most grownups?!
Totally agree with the pilot. The pax in question should be put on a no-fly list. He belongs on a Greyhound bus.
In this day and age of edibles who is stupid enough to smoke it in the lavatory? Oh wait… Anyway I have a good friend who’s entire medical practice is FAA flight physicals and he says the process of rehab and getting a pilot recertified to fly after a drug or alcohol incident is a HUGE pain in the Rass. I hope United Airlines does the right thing and ban this passenger for life.
@30west and @PHL/SFO neither of you have any idea what you’re talking about. This pilot made the right call. If you have such a substance use disorder problem that you cannot go the duration of a five hour flight without marijuana you have no business on the plane. This was immature, selfish behavior, our and simple. The conversation ends there.
This passenger should be THANKING the pilot. If they got caught crossing an international border with even a single marijuana leaf they could find themselves in jail for a very long time.