Is Florida Governor Ron DeSantis About To Fly Migrants To Joe Biden’s Home In Delaware?

Texas Governor Greg Abbott is running for re-election against Beto O’Rourke. Betting markets heavily favor him, but he’s not taking chances with his base after being primaried. He’s busing migrants to the Northeast.

Meanwhile, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis – much better-positioned to run for President in 2024 – said hold my beer. He’d use planes to own the libs. First his team had to convince people to take the Martha’s Vineyard trip, part of a $12 million program to transport migrants out of the state.

There’s so much that seems wrong about this stunt. Only a few of those include,

  • Misleading the passengers about the benefits of taking part
  • Treating them as pawns in a serious public policy discussion
  • Massachusetts isn’t even a so-called Sanctuary State, and Martha’s Vineyard isn’t such a city either

Martha’s Vineyard is ostensibly ‘liberal paradise’ but while it’s packed over the summer its character is completely different during the rest of the year. It’s also an expensive place not just to live, but also to buy groceries and to get on and off the island.


Steamship Authority Boat Off Of Martha’s Vineyard

Now there’s speculation that migrants could be headed to President Biden’s home next, based on filed flight plans for one of the planes that was chartered for the Martha’s Vineyard trip:

It’s not yet clear whether this flight is related. Liberals, who see the stunts as egregious and the Martha’s Vineyard community reacting with compassion, see the efforts as a self-own. While nationalist conservatives see themselves as pointing out hypocrisy, that they want immigrants to flow into the United States but don’t want them in their backyards.

Sending migrants to the President’s personal residence – sending them to the White House is too risky of a stunt – may be a way to again one-up Greg Aboott who has sent bus loads of people to the Vice President’s official residence.

(HT: @crucker)

About Gary Leff

Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary »

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Comments

  1. Living in Mass this is clearly a sanctuary state, while the governor has not declared such, like in CA, it is effectively a sanctuary state. Every major city in MA is a sanctuary city, as are all of the wealthy suburbs and Martha’s Vineyard. The commissioners of Martha’s Vineyard last year said that they would welcome illegal immigrants if any would actually show up. That wasn’t expected as they have the fares for airlines or the ferries to keep away migrants.

  2. @ Donald L Smith

    “I only see one side with the small amount of Spanish on it. The other side is all in English, so if I am missing something I apologize, but it is all I see”

    Apparently, your comment would have been accurate if referring to the consent forms used (rather than the leaflet pictured above), which reportedly were only partially translated.

    This strengthens the claim of wanton misdirection.

  3. @ 1KBrad

    “Since we are a nation of laws, yes, it is about the laws.”

    Then I assume you hold the jokers responsible for this stunt legally accountable – criminal investigation now launched?

    Similarly, incitement, theft of government documents, etc., would be of legal concern?

    “We’re talking about the Southern Border right now, not other means of entry.”

    Not true. A significant proportion of “illegal migrants” (cited as 40% by Ted Cruz) enter legally on visitor visas and over stay their visas (which, as cited above, is not a federal crime). It’s just convenient for the right wing narrative to ignore such.

  4. @ J.J.

    “I’m sure a lot of these people who support this also call themselves “Christians.”:So I ask these “Christians” what would Jesus do?”

    Hopefully, rain fire and brimstone on those simpering so-called “christian” hypocrites!

  5. Jesus said render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s so the notion that Jesus would break laws for his own benefit is far from what the Good Book actually says.

    Tell us what laws have been violated for paying for someone’s transportation from one point in the US to another.

    So, have those planes landed yet in Delaware?

    and tell me how this is any different than Biden’s middle-of-the-night flights into cities around the US just a few months ago?

    If DeSantis has done anything, he has elevated the immigration debate to another level and he might have pushed a case into the courts which might end up in the Supreme Court – which Trump stuffed. So, tell me what is wrong with what is happening.

  6. @ DL

    “Maybe they should be given the respect that they think they made a choice good for them – transportation to another part of the country that allows freedom of movement. It sounds racist to describe them as unable to make decisions for themselves simply because they are from a foreign country”

    Tragically, the right wing narrative depends upon denigration. These people are portrayed variously in a manner to dehumanise them and portray them as lesser, law-breaking, criminally inclined folk.

    This is plain old incitement to hatred and racism.

    It is appalling that people fall for such – disgusting right wing trash supporting odious selfish and power grubbing politicians.

    Shame be on many of the posters herein. What a bunch of self entitled vile excuses for humans some of you are. And played for fools!

  7. @ Tim Dunn

    “Jesus said render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s so the notion that Jesus would break laws for his own benefit is far from what the Good Book actually says.”

    The issue at hand is the way some folk claim christian values and never live them. . Their choice – I’m not one myself, I’m just calling out their religious / moral hypocrisy.

    “Tell us what laws have been violated for paying for someone’s transportation from one point in the US to another.”

    That is legal matter under consideration. I don’t get to decide that. And nor to do you, Tim.

    “So, have those planes landed yet in Delaware?”

    Has any common sense or basic human decency “landed” in your brain, Tim?

    “If DeSantis has done anything, he has elevated the immigration debate to another level”.

    What he is doing is inciting hatred and racism for personal political gain. It’s disgusting stuff, Tim. He’s also shamelessly using humans as political pawns. To support such reveals an incipient sociopathy in your personality type. Nasty stuff.

    Interesting, your detailed assessment of matters completely disintegrates when facing a political issue. I used to have some respect for you – it’s gone, mate. Just another arrogant right wing gullible twat.

  8. You forgot to tell me what was different between what Biden did in the middle of the night than what DeSantis is doing in broad daylight.

    again, Jesus said render to Caesar what is Caesar’s. Tell me how justifying anything in the vain of Christianity is part of what Jesus would do.

    Did DeSantis bring Jesus into the conversation? No, he did not. DeSantis is doing what he is doing because it is logical. Those that are trying to drag Jesus into the discussion think that Jesus would back them up – but he wants nothing to do with either side of the conversation.

    Yes, it probably is the politics that ends up coming between us – but when you can’t accept that DeSantis is just smart enough to throw the Dems hypocrisy back in their face, then you aren’t interested in seeing the truth.

    Whatever aviation topic we discuss doesn’t change that.

  9. @ Tim Dunn

    DeSantis is stage-managing a political stunt which appeals to the fear, racism and hatred in the American people. That is not a solution. That is neither a positive nor a humane contribution. Not only is it a stunt, it also relies on fakery (false information about available benefits), deception (partly translated documents) and the implicit denigration of a group of people, it may also be criminal in some regards (tonbe determined).

    Apparently, DeSantis has a controversial record on maintaining separation of church and state (assuming the topicality of your biblical inference as a non christian). That is another whole topic of discussion. IME right wing polls will invoke religion when it suits them.

    The comment on JC was directed at those who claim christian values and do not live them. There are frequently examples on this blog. The observation is a comment on those who evidently lack compassion and judge their fellow human beings from a position of selfish arrogance.

    FWIW I have watched the right wing politicians here in Australia turn migration / refugees / asylum seekers into their political play thing over a couple of decades, infamously during the Tampa / children incident, which turned an election on a series of lies about events and the people involved and have haunted the political narrative thereafter. (These events have been extensively documented thus the political lies, opportunism and wanton deception unequivocally revealed – also confirmed by personal private conversations the most senior serving officer of the Australian Army).

    Now you might call such politics smart. Certainly, it can be an effective playbook at stirring up the right wing sycophants. You feed them exactly what they want to believe. You pander to their hatred. You incite their racism. And yes, it works at summoning the demon from a cohort of unthinking sycophants and they’ll chant your mantra, wear your baseball caps, and even storm your parliament upon command.

    It’s also “effective” politics to stir up ignorance – avoiding inconvenient relative data on irregular entries, invoking presumptions of access to benefits, bemoaning the terrible burden which the poor old taxpayer is reluctantly forced to suffer.

    BUT does that foster the country and society that you seek? One based on fear, loathing, racist stereotyping, denigratory portrayal of people? A country of division, suspicion and anger?

    Mate, surely the US can find a better way to deal with the country’s challenges than resorting to the political gutter?!

    And, yes, the US has plenty of challenges in the aviation sector for us to discuss (airlines and airports are both in dire states) – the country’s failures at managing migration doesn’t change that.

    IMHO the former would be far more relevant for our collective discussions on this particular blog! I do hate when politics comes between us…;)

  10. The left wants to allow immigrants to change the voter rolls in their favor. They know the poor and ignorant will vote for them for the handouts.

    Replacement is real.

  11. platy,
    just one quick question.
    are you a registered voter in the US?

    If not, then, butt out. I don’t discuss Australian politics and expect you to let Americans figure out their own issues through their own political channels.

    I would be interested in knowing your thoughts on Australia’s future in the Commonwealth. Will that be put to a vote?

  12. Tim Dunn when backed into a corner:

    “Are you a citizen? If not then shut up.”

    Sounds about right. LOL

  13. The problem with the internet is that everyone thinks that any issue in the world is their’s to comment on.
    Immigration doesn’t work in the US but I am hardly about to listen to someone from an island tell me how to fix it.
    More significantly, this is a travel forum and I respect people for what they say about travel

    And platy has yet to tell us what is different about the Biden administration flying people in the middle of the night all over the country – which most certainly did happen – and DeSantis doing it in plain daylight.

    and, of course, Gary has yet to tell us how many immigrants he has welcomed into his home since he thinks Texas can keep taking them

  14. Why all the confusion about US immigration? The Blue Democrat states say they are sanctuary states………so let them be. Ship them ALL to sanctuary states. They will be better taken care of, and most liberal states have higher taxes to pay for all this.
    Just think how much Byeden is costing the Democrat states! LOL
    When my grandparents (both sides) came to America you had to be sponsored. The sponsor paid for your food, lodging, good will…..and PUT YOU TO WORK! Understand this….when you feed pigeons….you get more pigeons. We already have poor people to take care of in this country.

  15. Just for point of reference, Australia has a roughly 0.4% of the population who is there illegally, most of them visa overstays. The US has somewhere between 4 and 8% of the population here illegally, with 4% being the official number and a Yale study indicating it could be double that.

    Other than that, I knew this would be a timesuck. Hardly worth posting the above, except since I asked myself the question, might as well document it.

  16. @ Tim Dunn

    No, I am not a registered voter in the US.

    But that does not nullify either my right to hold opinions on the US and seek dialogue on such.

    In fact some Americans vocal in their right wing delusions on this very blog have previously admitted that they don’t even bother to vote. Does that make their opinions herein more or less valid than my own?!

    Whether or not you choose to discuss Australian politics yourself, I became involved as a commentator on this blog in no small part to correct the pervasive misinformation about Australia spread by America’s right wing commentariat during the pandemic, reflected by many dumb bleating right wing f-wits on this very blog. We still have continuing representation of such despite offering up overwhelming primary scientific and medical evidence.

    I have taken the time and trouble to post frequent citations on the source materials (non political original sources) to evidence their misperception and persistent delusion.

    FWIW my father lived and worked in NYC for some years. I have worked for the University of Miami and had a Harvard-based university supervisor for one of my research degrees.

    I have close family members living in the US, so perhaps, my interest in the US is understandable.

    Furthermore, both my country of birth (UK) and country of residence (Australia) are highly dependent upon the military alliance with the US, and that, in turn, swings on the whim of your administration of the day, as we found to our abject concern when one orange boof head was in power, as China crept ever further south in the South China Sea and extended its economic / political influence into the Pacific Islands, notably The Solomons (a crucial misstep in foreign policy now party remedied by Australia’s own new “Democratic” government elected a few months ago).

    The issue of US migration is of more than passing interest to me since I have some Hispanic family and friends.

    When that idiot t*RUMP made wild accusations about hispanics being criminals to stir up the right wing runt, apparently people like you and many commentaries herein, that was pure racist abuse of people who are just like my wife and various in-laws.

    Now my family who live in the US who are of hispanic extraction have always worked, built businesses, paid their taxes, been law abiding and respectful folk within their communities.

    You wanna talk about DeSantis rather than Biden, let’s talk about the legal responsibility to migrant children shall we?!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/21/desantis-biden-migrant-flight-comparison/

    In terms of the difference let’s also see whether the class action filed against DeSantis by the migrants in question has legal legs or not, shall we?!

    DeSantis mounted a stunt. You have admitted that yourself, Tim, in your earlier post above, apparently too gleeful to celebrate calling out Democratic “hypocrisy” that the ethical implications of such actions were totally lost on you – the end justified the means right? Those people aren’t really human beings at all, just illegals and criminals.

    Thanks for your query on an Australian republic. A vote for such was held just over 20 years ago. The right wing government (monarchist) of the time rigged the vote by citing the least popular choice for the way the head of state would be chosen in the model of the republic (i.e. by vote of parliament not by individual citizens). Nobody was going to agree to that for the obvious reason it would create a politicised office of head of state. The preferred model, the vote of the people, was never put to the people.

    Sooner or later Australia will vote again on a republic. The debate is unlikely to be resumed for some time after the passing of ERII. There will then be another generational moment when such a vote for change could potentially occur.

    The polls have swung slightly back towards a monarchy since the passing of ERII. One theory being put forward is that Australians have been appalled at the behaviour of a certain US president (perhaps forgetting that the powers of an Australian head of state would be very different that of the US constitutional model).

    The country is trending left (“Democrat”) with a recently installed new federal government and most states either “democrat” or likely to become so in upcoming state elections. This may enable context and opportunity. Time till tell.

  17. @Tim Dunn

    [My response to previous post pending moderation of linked reference]

    “I am hardly about to listen to someone from an island tell me how to fix it.”

    Yah what? People from islands are poorly educated, unintelligent, ill-informed, and never left the island of their birth?

    (Shame on me – I was born on an island (UK) and had to study at the leading university on the island (Cambridge), and being from an island they made me sit a scholarship exam to prove that my intelligence was low enough for such a lowly educational facility, my father’s job running the news and current affairs department of a broadcasting company of an island (UK) left me totally ignorant of any national or overseas politics, and I didn’t leave the island of my birth until I was an elderly 2-year old and then only to visit an island (Skye), and only entered the world of airline loyalty 35 years ago starting with a trip to an island (Manhattan), only to migrate to another island (Australia) via an island (Singapore) having spent time living on a different island (Bimini)).

    Sorry, maybe, did you mean that Australians don’t know nothing, eh?!

    Or you can’t handle being called out for supporting right wing racist and vile political stunts and the attendant lessons in that sad political trajectory that can be learned from another Western democratic nation that went through that experiment a couple of decades earlier.

    Meanwhile, I don’t see ANY insightful analysis or solution focus in your posts on the topic. No critique and no substance.

    “More significantly, this is a travel forum and I respect people for what they say about travel”

    Like I said, I hate it when politics comes between us…;)

    Where is the Tim we know, love and respect?! Please come back.

    “And platy has yet to tell us what is different about the Biden administration flying people in the middle of the night all over the country – which most certainly did happen – and DeSantis doing it in plain daylight.”

    Done in pending post. Strange how on aviation matters you can summon extensive factual statements to interweave a narrative, but when it comes to politics, all you can do is regurgitate the half digested morsels from the right wing commentariat.

    Again, I don’t see ANY insightful analysis or solution focus in your posts on the topic.

    “and, of course, Gary has yet to tell us how many immigrants he has welcomed into his home since he thinks Texas can keep taking them”

    Perhaps you can explain why somebody has to house migrants to be worthy of opinion on the matter?!

    And why do you presume that the people who you term “illegals” are bad people?!

    Let’s see…if DeSantis had rounded up a group of disabled people to fly north in a publicity stunt having promised them (erroneously) various benefits, would that register on your ethical antenna?!

    FWIW I have been today arranging for a Venezuelan born niece-in-law to fly to Europe business class from BOG to MAD on my Avianca miles and facilitating her business goals as a fashion designer.

    Please advise me whether that’s a bad idea – clearly being Venezuelan she’s a rotten apple, right?

    And the US has had absolutely no part to play in messing with the politics of Caribbean, and Central and South American countries, right?

  18. @ C_M

    Yes to the data points (definitions of illegality aside).

    Yes to the time suck (but I fell for it – you were smarter than me on this occasion, mate!).

    The differences in proportions notwithstanding – the political narratives similarly framed.

    Be well. Hope DeSantis can evolve to a non Trumpist alternative.

  19. @platy:

    Someone from Oz is not qualified to opine on U.S. immigration issues.

    The Australian immigration system is far harsher than the U.S.

    Did you forget that Obama had to bring in those seeking asylum in Oz from crime infested, third-world New Guinea, where Australia had parked them because Australian law did not allow them to enter Oz?

    Clean up your own backyard before giving opinions on other countries.

  20. @1KBrad

    “Someone from Oz is not qualified to opine on U.S. immigration issues.’

    You entirely miss the point.

    My position is about how right wing politicians shamelessly use migrants as pawns for their own selfish and petty political ends. That pattern is repeated in various countries, including the US (the example at hand being he topic of this blog article). It’s not just a US issue. Yes, it’s been a sorry story here in Australia as well. Thereby listen and learn from those in other countries. Or be an ignorant twat – your choice.

    Anyway, to demolish your facile argument – just what would make somebody “qualified” in your world view – a US immigration lawyer (thus probably NOT you)?

    Is some sort of arbitrary criterion for “qualified” being applied to anybody else on this blog (it never was for matters Australian that Gary spouted off about with NO accuracy or the dumb American commentary it incited)?

    Why do you think that being in another country disqualifies comment?

    Have you considered that I might have actually lived or studied or worked in the US or have other relevant interests in the country such as resident family members or a prevailing interest in international politics, the role of US politics in alignment of defence alliances, etc?

    Has you considered that I personally know people affected by US immigration policy?

    Would you consider that there are people who are less informed in the US than somebody that you pass off as living from another country?

    C’mon answer these questions, big boy Brad, with all of your bristling fake bravado and baby balls and that classic Yankee arrogance!

    FWIW I have submitted a post listing my connections with the US, but with a link (to address Tim’s obsession with Biden’s night flights off immigrant children) that requires moderation – that post has not been approved by Gary (I don’t think there is a anything controversial in that post- several times my posts have been “lost” in the moderation process due to links in the text – one suspects Gary is idly screening posts which are politically inconvenient to him rather than racist or otherwise abusive).

    “The Australian immigration system is far harsher than the U.S.”

    In your opinion. But what part of the immigration system are you talking about? Are you referring especially to “asylum seekers” (the object of ongoing political debate) which represent a small fraction of the immigration intake?! In that case, yes, offshore detention (to deny legal access) and endless incarceration (to create examples to others) , but that (my point) inhumane treatment of ordinary human beings, typically displaced by the involvement of rich western nations in offshore jurisdictions (keep that oil coming, folks!).

    In summary, that harshness that you refer to was indeed a savage and odious took of the political right – exactly my point (accepting that”democrat” governments instituted detention centres and offshore detention).

    That said, the VAST majority of Australia “irregulars” are visa overstays, easily over 90%. The political narrative focuses on the refugees and feeds people’s fears and prejudice. Do the reading on the children overboard and Tampa controversy as an abject lesson in how politicians weave lies and denigrate people shamelessly for their own political ends.

    Clue – Australia and the US are just as “lenient” with visa overstays – arguably 90% or more of irregulars in Australia and 41% in USA based on the data I’ve seen (feel free to counter with actual data).

    “Did you forget that Obama had to bring in those seeking asylum in Oz from crime infested, third-world New Guinea, where Australia had parked them because Australian law did not allow them to enter Oz”

    No, Obama didn’t. He made a bilateral agreement to exchange a certain number of refugees from Australia (about 1250) with those from the US (it is reported from Central America). The ghastly t*RUMp subsequently agreed (under sufferance) and so did Biden to abide but he deal. About 1,000 refugees were sent to the US in total.

    For clarity (given your obnoxious stereotypical summary of PNG society) the refugees in question did not originate from PNG (the offshore refugee camp was indeed positioned there, if that is what you meant – your characterisation of PNG is unfortunate, but let’s save that for another debate noting I’ve worked on a couple of major PNG mining projects and am friends with one of their (now retired) High Court Judges).

    To note the refugee issue at hand included the Kurdish Iraqis displaced by the US-led second illegal invasion of Iraq (thanks to the gormless right wing twat baby bushbaby).

    “Clean up your own backyard before giving opinions on other countries”

    But that’s my point. Be grown up enough to learn from what happens in other countries. Harvest the strengths and be prudent about the weaknesses. Not big enough for that though are we, señor 1K kahounas!

    Oh and just an end note – if you can’t stomach observation and critique from an offshore commentator, maybe, just maybe, don’t be such a simpering hypocrite and do exactly what you whine against by making misplaced commentary about other countries (or do just that and get roasted for your ignorance).

    C’mon Brad, tell me about your travel and frequent flyer triumphs – I’m all ears and would love to hear about them. Isn’ that why we’re all here? Can’t wait to share a beer and hear about your mileage successes and adventures!

    Hopefully Gary will work that out (eventually).

    Be well, bro.

  21. “I have submitted a post listing my connections with the US, but with a link:

    for the record post moderated and now viewable (thanks Gary).

  22. platy,
    I have never gone anywhere but do appreciate the words “know, love…” I was and still am not any different in my knowledge of travel because I don’t think there is anything to make of TX or FL’s governors’ movement of illegal immigrants if it was acceptable for the Biden Administration to fly immigrants in the middle of the night all over the country.
    The ONLY issue that matters in EITHER CASE is whether the immigrants were informed of whether they were going and gave their own approval. There is nothing illegal about moving people around the country at your own expense.
    It may shock you to know that I have no loyalty to Trump and never did. He enacted many great policies – the likes of which we are seeing unraveled out of political spite with horrifying consequences not just for the US but also the world. There are plenty of people that can enact the policies which Trump and other Republicans stand for without being so divisive – and potentially breaking the law in the process.
    Everyone in the entire world is affected by what happens in the US and has a desire to comment on US politics. I lived overseas and made it my policy not to comment on the political affairs of the country where I lived. I get that this is the internet but it is simply appropriate to know the basis on which anyone responds.
    Australia is STILL an island – a very different situation than the US. Given that the entire intent of progressives and BIden is to change the US electorate and permanently increase the number of Latino Democratic voters, I will assure you that more and more are voting Republican because doing so is in their ECONOMIC best interests.
    The best thing about democracies is that they are inherently self-correcting if allowed to function properly. No one should be putting their thumb on the scales and should face the consequences of their decisions – good or bad.

    Now I think there are a bunch of beached whales that should be primary concern for you. 🙂 they are on the beaches of your island nation, not mine.

  23. @ Tim Dunn

    “I don’t think there is anything to make of TX or FL’s governors’ movement of illegal immigrants if it was acceptable for the Biden Administration to fly immigrants in the middle of the night all over the country.”

    Well, I’ve provided you with an alternate point of view that extols the differences. It’s your choice to ignore or respect such . The right wing was never good at protecting children, was it, well certainly not locally where the government fought tooth and claw to prevent medical assistance to offshore detained refugees and tried to avoid a Royal Commission into institutional child sex abuse (aka the Catholic Church).

    “The ONLY issue that matters in EITHER CASE is whether the immigrants were informed”

    Yes, but not entirely true in my opinion. As per my earlier post and attendant citation.

    “Trump enacted many great policies – the likes of which we are seeing unraveled out of political spite with horrifying consequences not just for the US but also the world.”

    From where we sit in Australia that is absolutely not the case. From the Australian perspective your claim is utterly delusional – your prior administration dropped the ball. Your vote – your choice.

    I encourage you to listen to alternative points of view, including those from other counters which you sadly dismiss because they are from other countries even though we are affected by your politics.

    “There are plenty of people that can enact the policies which Trump and other Republicans stand for without being so divisive – and potentially breaking the law in the process.”

    One can but hope. They are some Republican leaning commentators on this blog and my friends and business associates in the US who would concur. And that’s partly my point. My argument is for inclusion and a common front to a universally shared challenge. Policy should be adjudged on its merit and not political origination – human capital should be encouraged and celebrated. not denigrated.

    Upon analysis our similarities in viewpoint would probably greatly outweigh our dissimilarities.

    “Everyone in the entire world is affected by what happens in the US”

    Undeniably the case.

    “and has a desire to comment on US politics”

    Some, maybe many, but not all, IME.

    “I lived overseas and made it my policy not to comment on the political affairs of the country where I lived. I get that this is the internet but it is simply appropriate to know the basis on which anyone responds.’

    Unfortunately, we don’t get that luxury in the era of modern day social media, do we?!

    On the the hand everyone is entitled to their opinion (something about free speech where there is no victimisation) and on the other expertise, experience and context differ. How to recognise and handle such?

    “Australia is STILL an island – a very different situation than the US.”

    Yes – but to ignore the lessons of history and similitude is to bypass potentially relevant data and insight. the migration debate has raged here fiercely and moulded the political narrative.

    “Given that the entire intent of progressives and BIden is to change the US electorate and permanently increase the number of Latino Democratic vote”

    Now you are sounding “trumpette” paranoid, my friend. Some of these people are now my family. I will not tolerate any racism so directed.

    “I will assure you that more and more are voting Republican because doing so is in their ECONOMIC best interests.”

    Looking past the obvious contradiction, I posted data on that topic in response to your earlier post, basically maybe not as much as you perceive.

    Only to note that the current economic milieu is not instantly derived –
    there is no magic wand – similarly in Australia the recently installed government has inherited a quadrupled government debt.

    The smart ones will see thorough the right wing BS, as they have locally.

    “The best thing about democracies is that they are inherently self-correcting if allowed to function properly. No one should be putting their thumb on the scales and should face the consequences of their decisions – good or bad.’

    Ideally so. But The GOP is still rusted onto trumpistic fakery. My Republican mates in the US will not tolerate such. It appears that particular trajectory is yet to be resolved one way or another. Of current interest is whether DeSantis (as a putative presidential candidate) offers anything fresh (?).

    IME, and having lived in several countries, most people want (1) sensible centre and (2) competency.

    “Now I think there are a bunch of beached whales that should be primary concern for you. they are on the beaches of your island nation, not mine.”

    Yes sir, well observed. But off another island altogether – that obscure geographical blip called Tasmania! That’s 3,500 km from here – found an enormous Hercules Moth in the local car park yesterday!

    Now got some award seats to book up before bed….be well my friend…keep the beer cold…;)

  24. @ Chad

    “The left wants to allow immigrants to change the voter rolls in their favor. ”

    Scratches head…wouldn’t they need to be citizens before they can vote?!

    You want to deny such to people who you fear might vote for a different party to you?!

    You stereotype immigrants as dumb, unthinking and left-leaning?

    Maybe (compared with many herein) they are smarter and more decent human beings and wail make their political choices accordingly?

  25. Citizenship? Voting? Are you not aware of the left-wing attempts to remove citizenship from the list of requirements to vote in local elections. And to lower the age to vote to 16. And this in places like New York City and San Francisco.

    Citizenship? What an outmoded concept. You must be a racist if you think only citizens should be able to vote. And if they want to vote for unicorn-fart powered cars and a UBI of $1 million/week, they should get to do that. Because imagination. If we can think it, we can do it.

    There’s a reason Sweden just voted in a right-wing government. And soon, Italy. Already Hungary. Already Brexit.

  26. I love those who think it is the Right who is at fault here. Really?

    The Left is allowing unchecked immigration over the southern border and is doing nothing to stop it.

    Those border states are bearing the burden of that illegal immigration and all the do-gooder Lefties in the NE are happy to go along with it because it doesn’t affect them.

    The governors in TX and FL are calling out their hypocrisy and bringing the issue to the forefront of public attention.

    Gee, the Left doesn’t like that.

    THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

    The Left controls government and is doing NOTHING about it.

    Wait until the Left is slaughtered in the mid-terms. I’ll be laughing myself silly.

    And for the name-callers out there, I am not a Republican and did not vote for Trump.

  27. @1kbrad
    if you think either party really wants to do something about immigration you are wrong. They both use it as a fundraising, fear mongering tool and you seem to have bitten hook, line, and sinker. Until we all recognize that neither party is trying to do anything to fix the real problem nothing will change. Biden didn’t invite these people anymore than the EU invited all the ME refugees or those fleeing Russia and Ukraine right now. Failed authoritarian regimes in several central american and S> American countries have caused these people to flee in fear of their lives from violence and starvation. They need help but neither party want so institute true immigration reform to remove the chaos and the fund raising opportunities that it creates

  28. @Victor: The Trump administration made efforts to stem the tide of illegal immigration and the numbers went down. Significantly.

    The Biden administration opened the doors wide and the numbers entering illegally are at record highs.

  29. @ C_M

    “Citizenship? Voting?”

    My (ironic) question is how can these hordes of “illegals” mindlessly and lawlessly roaming the streets and deserts of your over-burdened southern states even vote if they are not in the “system”?! So much for the conspiracy theories on manipulating election outcomes.

    “You must be a racist if you think only citizens should be able to vote.”

    That is a matter ultimately defined by the relevant amendments to the US constitution and the non discriminatory protections afforded in relevant right to vote provisions – you must be racist if you think that voter suppression inherent in various GOP election game plays is worthy of support.

    “And if they want to vote for unicorn-fart powered cars and a UBI of $1 million/week, they should get to do that. Because imagination. If we can think it, we can do it.”

    Mate, you don’t need to be so scared of change and so fixated upon regressing into your cosy notions the past. Less of there limp lettuce leaf routine – deal with it.

    “There’s a reason Sweden just voted in a right-wing government.”

    Let’s wait and see just how functional a motley coalition of numerous political parties can actually be – they are already making pre-emptive demands of each other. It’s not an auspicious start.

    And are we to assume that you support Viktor Orban’s right wing racism (anti Muslim) and discrimination (anti gay) rhetoric in Hungary?

    If you can keep track of the complexities of Italian politics, let me know! I’m due to visit in a few weeks’ time.

    Oh, and, UK former Tory-twit PM David Cameron would have had a lot more fun with Brexit, if he’d followed up on his election promise to return the right to vote to UK citizens living overseas – such additional votes like to be internationalist rather than petty patriotic and insular.

    There’s a reason the UK Tory party is churning through PMs at a rate of knots – they are sadly incompetent notwithstanding their Oxford degrees (Cameron, May, Johnson and Truss) – the UK economy is in dire straits…;)

    And there’s a reason why Australian voters have dumped their right wing national government. Clue – it was utterly incompetent. The last PM (they also churned through several in their term of office) had secretly self appointed to several ministerial positions without informing the relevant ministers and happily held meetings of one attendee (i.e. his supreme egoistic self) complete with attendant meeting minutes such was the man’s descent into right wing sociopathy and power delusion.

    And there’s a reason why our state electorates are rejecting the right wing mob.

    Love to chat, mate, but we ain’t going to agree on a blog on such political matters – we might find common ground given a white board to brain dump on. opseicif policy issue….;)

    Be well, buddy.

    Gotta walk the dog and some numpty went and shaved his rear end…

    Already Brexit.

  30. @ 1KBrad

    “I am not a Republican and did not vote for Trump.”

    Putting aside the many factual errors in your last few posts (it’s pointless presenting evidence to somebody so hysterically fixated) – it would seem from your highly partisan ranting that you have only one political path to follow?! Whereto if not the GOPuppies and trumpettes?

    Not even the Donald Duckling deployed 100,000s troops to the US-Mexico border or sent in agents to round up those nasty illegal brat kids when they were attending school class. Apparently, such measure were considered.

    What’s your solution?

    Don’t forget about the visa overstayers, either….;

  31. @ C_M

    “TLDR’

    OK – I will simply respond with DRWA (Dumb Right Wing American) to any of your future mosts, mate…recommend you move to Hungary where your politics, racism and discrimination will make you feel very comfortable under the auspices of a near non democratic (system not party) political milieu…

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