The only things I delete in the comments at View From The Wing are:
- Extreme offensiveness – racism, misogyny, graphic sexuality.
- Non-public information about individuals – the full name and address, for instance of another commenter who uses a pseudonym.
I’ve been pretty lax in doing that. I’ve never once gotten an email from a member that I can recall thanking me for having such a light touch in the comments. I’ve gotten many emails like this one questioning the value of the comments section that flows from such a light moderating touch,
So I’m not a fan of the comments section of your blog. That’s mostly because it adds so little value to any conversation you start, and you have an abnormally high number of jackasses commenting on your site. For some reason you like engaging some of these folks, but I really question whether the majority of your readership shares that interest.
However I’ve long been reluctant to ban commenters or censor ‘the jackasses’.
My general approach is that ‘it’s the internet’ and that what someone writes reflects more on their own character than on anyone else. I’ve been a denizen of the internet for more than 20 years, and I probably have too pollyannaish a view of what kind of free speech community it was supposed to become that derives from a mindset formed in the early 1990s.
More importantly though I question my ability to be particularly Solomonic in my approach to moderating comments. It’s too easy to let distaste for a commenter’s truly offensive posts become a slippery slope into dislike for someone who thinks I’m deeply and morally wrong on some issue. Wouldn’t the comments be much nicer without their invective? Wouldn’t it be nicer without the commenter who says I’ve got no idea what I’m talking about?
If I start down this road, anyone becomes a target for banning or comment deletion if they disagree with me or call me out. So I tend not to delete comments or ban commenters… even when they cross into the two areas that I’ve said aren’t acceptable in the comments here.
Which is a long way of saying that for only the third or fourth time in almost 15 years at View From the Wing I’ve gone ahead and banned a commenter. I also deleted a different commenter’s “contribution” yesterday which came close to advocating violence.
I’m pretty sure I’ve done the right thing in these cases, and I wonder what readers think about my approach and whether I should rethink it with a goal of developing a comments section that is more useful and constructive, of commenters sharing not just their opinions but their experiences, as a way of helping other readers dive further into an issue or offer that I write about? Should I be taking more of an active hand in the comments than I do?
When someone becomes an absolute troll and starts putting everyone on the other side of the argument down with extremely veiled ad hominems, it’s time to block him, too. It becomes a huge waste of time for honest people to go look up the facts, and link to them, to counter their Trump-like total BS assertions, but when you don’t, their last spewing of troll excrement is what is last seen standing.
@ Allen…what the heck does that mean? Saying he’s “homophobic” or saying that people are posting “homophobic” comments?
I have found there are often good comments that are helpful and contribute to discussions. It is also useful to ask a question and get an answer from Gary or a reader. If you are a blogger, getting feedback is useful, too, whether that is critical feedback or praise.
As to banning someone from commenting, I am glad that the concept of free speech is being upheld on the blog and only the most egregious stuff is removed.
What did the banned person do to warrant getting banned?
The first time I commented on one of your posts was over a year ago. You were reviewing the benefits of a credit card and made a slight mistake in your post, so I pointed it out – very simply and without any snark, which is more than I can for some of your readers. A simple thank you would have done, but instead, within minutes of my comment, you corrected the post and my comment was denied and not posted. That incident has left a sour taste in my mouth ever since.
This is my second post. Will you actually post this one and apologize? I’ve seen you give credit where it is due before, so your actions on that day truly surprised me.
I think you are right on banning this person.
All/any of the blogs I read, I use as a guide line not as a bible. In comments people share their personal relative experience and opinion. Also, comments give us an opportunity to ask specific again relative questions.
I don’t understand when people complain about FREE information provided. Nobody is forcing you to use provided links or click on adds. Look at this as at the store when you are looking to buy something… like it or live it.
@Robert I am quite sure you are mistaken. I’ve certainly acted quickly on a comment without saying thanks (my poor manners, I’m often in a huge rush) but I do not think I have ever deleted such a thing!
Is it possible that someone else left a similar comment, I saw theirs and acted on *it*? And perhaps your comment went to spam and I didn’t see it?
It’s hard for me to go back and figure out the story based on what you’ve written but I’ve never intentionally done anything like that.
I certainly apologize if your comment didn’t get posted for some reason (such as going to spam and I didn’t catch it). I welcome criticism here, and I definitely welcome and appreciate comments that offer valid advice and corrections!
@Matt – it was some pretty frequent and extreme racism and misogny
Gary, IMHO you are handling everything perfectly. I enjoy your daily briefings on travel details.
I assume @Allen is referring to adding to the list of things I do not allow (in addition to ‘racism, misogyny, graphic sexuality’). I did not mean this to be an exhaustive list, and I should not tolerate the most extreme versions of sexual orientation slurs or attacks for sure [along the same lines I would treat racist content]. I do not intend to limit the expression of viewpoints, just the manner in which they’re expressed.
@Christian we’re always going to have similar content driven by similar news events, though each with our own take. Sometimes I’m first, sometimes someone else is first. I assume he got the same email from AA that I did. 😉
I think it is your blog and you DEFINITELY have the right to ban people who are rude, nasty or who are on here just to spew hatred and insult you and other members. I have social media accounts for my business and I absolutely eliminate any negative comments, I’m allowed to do that. Same on a blog you’re presumably paying for or are responsible for in my opinion. Given that you are a somewhat public figure, I would worry about the nut jobs that Mike referred to, they are indeed out there, I talk to crazy folks every day and as a friend of mine pointed out, they spend money too, lol. There are a lot of trolls in every industry and a lot of very angry people so you can’t be too careful I suppose but it is certainly your right to kick off people who are just being ugly, using profanity, insulting other members because they disagree or just because you don’t like what they have to say. If they don’t like it, they can certainly find another blog or start their own.
Couple thoughts, do with them as you will…
– Typically a small % of people even read comments (if you care to estimate the %, there are ways to do this via scroll-tracking software, but it’s probably quite low).
– An even smaller % leave comments (unless it’s a contest/giveaway).
– If someone actually wants to discuss a post in detail, blog comments are pretty much the worst format to do so, especially (as is the case at VFTW) comments aren’t threaded.
Maybe it’d make sense to move from comments to a forum? (Doesn’t have to be one you set up here — you could auto-post to Inside Flyer whenever a new post goes up and just link there from beneath the post.)
You could enable comments for giveaway/contest posts only, or just have a link to a contest form in those posts.
Reply to Christian: what I said was that where Gary says:
“The only things I delete in the comments at View From The Wing are:
Extreme offensiveness – racism, misogyny, graphic sexuality.”
I think it nescessary to have added the word homophobic comments as comments that he would delete along with racism, misogyny and Graphic Sexuality. I doubt Gary disagrees.
The only things I delete in the comments at View From The Wing are:
Extreme offensiveness – racism, misogyny, graphic sexuality.
Non-public information about individuals – the full name and address, for instance of another commenter who uses a pseudonym.
@mike murphy – I was once stalked by an employee of a credit bureau which was kind of scary
I read about 90% of your posts, and about 20% of the comments following the posts because generally there are so few helpful responses. Many people who comment hide behind a pseudonym and attack you and/or spout irrelevant screed that is at best tiring and at worst seriously alarming. I do like it when people disagree with you on the facts and generate a robust debate, but this is rare in my experience. The question I would have if I were you is whether it is worth the time to read everyone’s post. That said, it is indeed your blog so you are well within your rights to censor as much as you deem fit. If people think they are beginning to read propaganda rather than news they will move on.
I trust your judgement. I’ve been reading your blog for about 6-years, and sometimes I scan through the comments. Fortunately the ratio of buffoons in the mix has been low on most occasions, and I suppose we should all be thankful for that, because the comments section can be helpful and useful at times. Great blog. Keep up the good work!
Gary, you say “most “extreme” of sexual orientation slurs or attacks for sure [along the same lines I would treat racist content].
I think you should not allow any racist, , misognistic or homophobic content. Since when is some racism acceptable?
In response to your saying
“I should not tolerate the most extreme versions of sexual orientation slurs or attacks for sure [along the same lines I would treat racist content]
I think you should not allow any racist, , misognistic or homophobic content. Since when is some racism acceptable?
If anything, I think that you’re too forgiving. Many times you’ll tolerate some of the trolls that are obviously just being rude or combative to cause other people misery or strife. You most certainly did the right thing. Well done.
Bottom line: It is your blog. You “call the balls and strikes” as you see them.
You have a massive amount of readers, and speaking for myself, I find myself mostly ignoring the comments.
You give us pearls, for which I am grateful. It is your “space,” and as any such space, it works and looks better if kept free of trash and junk.
Hag Sameach.
Extreme racism and misogyny has no place on your blog. By all means, you banning the person from commenting on your site is not only your prerogative but the smart thing to do.
Gary, you are definitely making the correct decision. I have been reading & enjoying your blog for years and one of the reasons I like it so much is because it’s YOUR BLOG. Thanks you and keep up the good work! Happy new year wishes to you as well
I read your blog everyday. If I want to know more about a particular post, I’ll scroll through the comments to look for additional conversation/information. My perception (it could be skewed because I haven’t looked at actual numbers) is that the highest percentage of the comments are people using pseudonyms to complain about click-bait, tell you you are a horrible person, want to bring you down a few pegs because you got national media attention and generally being trolls.
My personal preference would be fewer trolls. But I’m not willing to put the time and energy into gathering and disseminating the information that you do. I don’t have skin in this game. It is your blog. Do as you please.
BTW – thanks for your blog. I learn a lot from you.
Gary,
I would agree with others that it is your blog and yours to moderate as you choose. As the moderator of a much smaller listserve dealing with community organizations, I had to set and enforce very basic rules such as no political posts nor for-profit posts. Luckily for me, community pressure was usually enough and I only had to ban a couple of folks through the past 10 years.
It does seem to me that you attract more than your fair share of trolls and folks who comment just to trash you or other commenters or make snarky political posts, but if you dive into heavy handed moderation, it can become a major headache and timesink. No easy answer, but I would probably lean towards warning and banning folks who repeatedly post comments that violate some basic rules of civility with a bar much lower than present.
I enjoy your writing and wish you good luck.
Thank you for all the kind words in the comments here, I really appreciate them.
@Allen I don’t think it’s acceptable. I think the best response is to (1) let people reveal their true selves (2) combat bad ideas with good ones. I also don’t think I’m especially well positioned to be the arbiter of what is and isn’t racism etc. So it’s only the most extreme stuff that I’m willing to actually remove.
As someone with a blog that receives almost no comments, I often dream of the day that I have an army of haters who fill my comments section with vitriol. In my opinion, your blog is your house, and you’re the arbiter of free speech in your house. Too bad there isn’t a middle option, where you could require certain trolls to complete a series of excruciatingly intricate Captchas before they could post comments. Banning someone gives them a martyr complex, whereas annoying them over and over is just funny.
Gary–there is constructive criticism, and then there is destructive criticism. The second has no value and should be removed. It only encourages hate and more vitriol.
Gary,
1) No matter how carefully you try to balance free speech with maintaining a polite discussion, you will never win. Someone will take issue with whatever rules you write. So if you can’t win, why worry at all?
2) Free speech is not an absolute. If it were, every parent in America would be in jail for at some point telling their kid to shut-up. Seriously, you are not compromising your principles if you set some boundaries for a civilized discussion. That is not censorship. It is common sense.
I enjoy your blog very much, and contrary to some of the other comments here, I do browse the comments now and then. I have absolutely no problem if you want to filter out some of the nonsense. In fact, I’d appreciate it.
Gary-
Your only guideline is “think of your readers.” We of course want to read comments that further the discussion, whether they complement, supplement or dispute what you wrote. But a comments section is useless to readers if irrelevant or off-point comments derail our information-gleaning process.
You’re the editor here. Do us a favor —use your judgment as the bar, rather than the Internet’s lowest common denominator “all the garbage that’s unfit to print.”
Best,
Anne
This is why I don’t provide the means for discussion on my website. I believe I get the same useful info by providing the means for my readers to write to me via email. I then pass on that useful info to my readers.
In the 18 or so years I have been running FreeFrequentFlyerMiles.com I have received exactly two offensive emails.
Hi Gary.
Despite being UK based now, and less relevance to me since you have a US focus, I have thoroughly enjoyed your take on events over the past few years and have learned some very useful things – and saved some cash too – so thanks from a grateful reader.
I think you let a few things go that I certaintly would not have the patience for – I can think of several “contributors” I would have blocked years ago!
You have done the right thing so dont worry about it.
Thanks for all your hard work in keeping us informed – have a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Gary you have an excellent blog, and generally write in a clear and objective position.
I personally have never seen anything offensive in your comments so feel that your lack of moderation has been pretty spot on. Sometimes readers will make comments that are wrong, but other times I find their comments valuable, especially when offers or deals have expired or starting to be gone. As well I feel the comments help keep you honest.
Keep up the great work on your blog Gary and hopefully don’t change it too much in the future.
Thanks for opening this discussion.
Here and elsewhere, I’ve read some terribly unbalanced posts which are way off topic and rather creepy. Their goal is to cause train wrecks and in its aftermath they revel.
Since trolls hide in the shadows anyway, send them off to oblivion.
As far as the “Solomonic touch” goes, your readers are smart enough to decipher if posts to your articles lean one way or another.
You’re doing well, Gary; now it’s time to do better.
@Dave sez: “I like your light touch. Easy enough to skip over useless or silly (DCS) posts.”
I will provide here links to my recent ORIGINAL posts and let’s see who thinks they are “useless” or “silly”. It is the same high quality “debate” on travel/loyalty-related issues that I have tried to bring to the comments section of VFTW. If you consider my posts “useless” or silly, that’s a reflection on you. REALLY. Check these out and call me in the morning:
1. Year-end Asian Escapade: Anatomy of a Big-time Redemption -2016 Edition: https://goo.gl/06fMYo
[I am still having fun on this big-time redemption and just saw this thread on someone being banned].
2. No, SPG upgrades policy does not “entitle” platinum elites to suite upgrades: https://goo.gl/xEvy5L
3. UA MileagePlus and the Chase Sapphire Reserve Visa: The Loyalty Game’s One-Stop Shop: https://goo.gl/Prtzht
4. Earn up to 8 points/dollar on the Chase Sapphire Reserve by double dipping! : https://goo.gl/TGHVjw
G’day from Hilton Pattaya where things are simply rockin’!
Gary, right call by you and your blog. Here’s some statistics that put your remarkable ability to engage with your readers on the positive side. As you note, this is only the third or forth time in 15 years. The perspective is that over that time, your blog has garnered 221,429 total approved comments (an additional 5,294 comments were captured by Akismet spam filters). Three or four times/comments over nearly a quarter million comments is a positive reflection on just how much you value input from your readers. Congrats for one of the best blogs and one of the most ‘reader engaged’ bloggers out there.
UA-NYC sez: “Would love to see more…especially when they post outright lies trying to puff up “their” respective program, unsupported by any links or documentation.”
This comes from a guy who has repeatedly posted my personal information — of the kind that @Gary rightly singled out as going beyond the pale — both here and over the OMAAT.
You have no credibility and are unhinged. You should have been banned for repeatedly violating other posters’ privacy.
As for “unsupported by any links or documentation”, you would have no clue what that means even if it hit you in the face.
G’day!
I’ve read your blog consistently for the past 6 months or so. I’ve never commented. As was stated earlier, its your blog, you call the balls and strikes as you see fit.
Depends what purpose you want the comments to serve. I’ll say this: I often visit posts on this blog specifically to read the comments for entertainment. They often are more entertaining than those of other blogs. If you think there are lots of others out there like me and this drives up your readership, then that’s something to think about. On the other hand, if you want everyone to stay 100% on topic and only deliver questions/comments that are 100% constructive toward travel, then go ahead and get mod-heavy.
Gary, you’re a walking cloud of airline cholesterol. That’s what you really are, you fake.
Huh?
It’s amusing that DCS links to his original content post on SPG upgrades (a subject in which he has no personal experiences to share), and said post created 2+ weeks ago has exactly zero, yes, zero, comments. I guess sharing hate, lies, misinformation, and no source linking doesn’t work so well. LOL.
There are often times when the conversation goes severely off-topic, especially when it concerns politics (an ultra hot-button issue right now) and religion. There is also frequent personal abuse. You have the right to delete comments covering the above, as it is generally distasteful to the sane portion of your readership anyway. A useful addition would be a mod. comment from you saying that a particular thread is now closed from further comment, and promptly deleting any further comments made in defiance. You could also ban offensive/crazy commenters for a period of time (7, 10, 30 days; whatever) in which time they will take their hate and/or loopyness to some other place, and hopefully never return .
Way to go Gary! Hold the line! We support this decision!
Most of my (rare) comments have probably been critical, I guess, but none of them has ever been deleted, banned or otherwise not posted. A light touch, as you say.
The comment accusing DCS of not supporting his stuff, by the way, is actually laugh-out-loud funny. Anyone reading these words who has even a vague idea about what the the guy does for a living is laughing, too. So ha, ha, ha . . . .
I agree that the light touch is best. A ban should be used infrequently, like the hyperspace button on the old Asteroids video game. However, it does disappoint me how many people simply post negative comments on some of the blog posts – that’s one of the reasons why I don’t have my own blog. Keep up the great work!
I think it is your blog and you can ban any comment you wish. Sure I agree with freedom of speech, but you are the one who controls who comes into your blog or your house. You control the tone of your blog and its comments. Personally there is enough hate and negativity in the world, feel free to ban more than you do!
I read your blog and often learn a lot. Sometimes on the rare occasion the info you are sharing may be something I already am up to speed on. But I am choosing to read your blog. If I disagree with your views or style of writing who am I to ask you to change? Instead I should simply not read your blog. So it baffles me to hear people complaining about your blog. Hey folks this is not mandatory reading! You don’t like it go away and don’t read it! Keep your comments to your self and go away!
Banning someone or blocking someone wont take you far… they will just change their email address or IP address. Both are easy to do.
I dont always agree with you. Its your blog and you can do whatever you please and I can decide what type of person you are because its my freedom to think that. In most cases, I got positives things about you but you got some annoying negatives that get under my skin at times. You wont hear me pulling you down because thats who I am. I chose to ignore you when you get annoying.
@Gary – I’ve been reading a few years now, and your comment sections are getting longer all the time. It’s difficult to keep up with, especially with so much noise (read: opinions shared without useful insight). I do NOT expect you to keep up with your comments and doubt that you could. However, perhaps you would consider looking into alternative commenting styles. Examples include the aforementioned forum postings, or the upvoted/starred/pinned commenting systems from sites such as the now-defunct Gawker suite or Reddit.