On Monday I wrote that the electronics ban on flights to the U.S. from certain Mideast airports could be extended to European flights, with an announcement coming not earlier than today.
European security officials are saying the decision is made and an announcement will come tomorrow (Thursday).
The US Department of Homeland Security acknowledges that banning electronics larger than a standard cell phone on flights from Europe to the U.S. is under consideration, but presumably not wanting to get ahead of the announcement says “No final decisions have been made..” (emphasis mine).
The electronics ban is a silly policy that doesn’t promote security and the head of world airline association and standards setting body IATA has called for its end.
Extending the ban to Europe flights, though, would be one way to answer the criticism of the laptop ban that it targets only airports with flights operated by competitors of U.S. airlines.
Playing whack-a-mole with threats just pushes determined terrorists to focus on other airports or other means to accomplish their goals. Pushing lithium ion batteries into cargo creates a fire risk that’s harder to contain.
Best advice: consider taking your international flights back to the U.S. via Canada.
Forget what a bad idea this is for a second, how do most EU airports even implement it? Many don’t have any screening at the gate, or mixed security for all international flights.
Samsung Note and other phablet sales will explode.
The paranoia of these bans is astounding. What if a terrorist brings half a dozen phablets on board?
Seems like it’s a lot easier to steal a truck and case mass casualtes than fooling around with electronics on airlines. We need to start monitoring truck driving schools and banning semis!
The terrorists have already won. The Home of the Brave acts more lie the Home of the Afraid. Sad #MAGAfail
I have just checked in for my flight tomorrow from Barcelona to ORD with Turkish Airlines. I had to confirm that I understand that no electronics larger than a cell phone may be carried in hand luggage. I never check a bag; very glad I didn´t bring my laptop on this trip — could have been very difficult. (And what if I had planned to not take the last leg….)
Yep—looks like Canada is going to be picking up a lot more airline traffic, especially in Biz class.
And of course vacations to/from the US to/from Europe (or connecting points onwards) are going to nosedive. We can watch the tourist market tank. If I have to risk packing my expensive camera and iPad in my baggage….just not worth the chance of losing it.
Time to go long on AC stock?
On behalf of Canada, we welcome you and your money to transit us anytime 🙂
you can also take your intl travels via Mexico too on AM haha..
Cameras are prohibited (on flights from the Middle East)?
Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense to just ban radical moose lambs?
Smart hotels will offer camera and laptop rentals through local vendors.
If a device big enough to take down a plane can fit in a laptop then why would it matter if it is in the cabin or in the cargo hold? Plus I guess they are tacitly admitting what most travelers already know which is that security screening is pretty much a joke. If screening really worked a ban should not be necessary.
Maybe they should just ban everything including clothes they can just issue hospital type gowns(a new ancillary fee and credit card perk is born! – free gown if you have the XYZ credit card!!). They can do a scan and a body cavity check on everyone just to be sure. Maybe endoscopy/colonoscopy of every passenger should be standard. But what if someone surgically implants something? Too many risk. Might as well just ban travel.
Well, I don’t know.
Certainly, many security experts seem to think that this is warranted and they are privy to more info than we are. Of course, that does not make them immune from mistakes or errors of judgment.
Then again, purported experts in the field of points and miles for travel are not exactly security experts, and people whining about the inconvenience of being without a computer for 6-10 hours or so are just that … whiners.
Erring on the side of caution is not an iron-clad guarantee that nothing deleterious will occur but seems prudent.
@Dan-Apparently the thinking is that a (suicide) passenger must activate the computer device by turning on the computer, which cannot be done if it’s in the cargo hold.
I think Canada’s days as a good transit option are numbered. Can’t you assume this will be extended to Asia, Latin America and Canada soon enough, then domestic flights. A nation of cowards and incompetents when it comes to aviation, though of course tens of thousands continue to die annually on the highways and nobody does much of anything about it.
@JetAway – Regarding having to activate a bomb in a computer in the cargo hold by turning on the computer:
Do they actually think terrorists have never heard of timers?
I am glad my return trip in September from Europe will be via YYZ in biz. I was looking at ZRH-ORD too, but glad I went with AC now.
Hard to believe that only a few years ago most people happily traveled with only a book and a small iPod to keep them occupied. And business travelers had either some much-appreciated down time on a flight or worked with pen and paper.
I’m sure you mean Middle East and not Mideast. Not sure if this comment will make sense if you edit your article and this remains in the future:
“On Monday I wrote that the electronics ban on flights to the U.S. from certain Mideast airports could be extended to European flights, with an announcement coming not earlier than today.”
Does this potentially mean no Ipads allowed on board?
This is absolute hogwash.
Does anyone really trust to put their laptop in their checked bag. You’ll get it back in pieces or not at all in some cases.
What happens when they lose your luggage. Now you lose all of your work until they find it?
What kind of garbage is this?
I love travel and I travel over 1/2 of the year.
What, they want to force me to not come back to the states?
@JetAway
I don’t mind not using my laptop, what I do mind is having my laptop in the checked bag, knowing how those bags are treated and how easy it is to steal from checked bags. Who’s gonna be liable for my laptop?
And to offer you a different perspective, not everyone is traveling with their electronics because they can’t live without them for 10 hours. What about business travelers? International college students? People who appreciate quality photos from their vacation?
And I don’t think Canada option will stick for a while. Either Canada will ban laptops too or US will ban laptops on flights from Canada as well.
Finally, why does this not apply to flights departing the US? The almighty TSA is so good? They can’t find guns, how will they detect hidden explosives? Ridiculous.
Yes, Beachfan, digital cameras are included in the ban. And Rusty, so are iPads and other tablets, Kindles, noise-canceling headphones… All non-medical electronic devices larger than a standard cellphone are included in the current Middle East ban, and presumably will be included in the Europe ban.
Now do you folks see what a problem this is creating? “Laptop ban” is in no way an accurate description of this policy!
JetAway, at no time in the past were travelers expected to check valuable items worth thousands of dollars into the main hold, with no compensation forthcoming in the event of loss or damage. This isn’t about “oh, I can’t play Angry Birds, I’ll have to read an actual BOOK!” it’s much more serious than that. Many electronic devices have sensitive information stored on them; others (like digital SLR cameras) are just very valuable. Either way, this insane policy is going to create huge headaches for travelers (especially if the ban is eventually extended to include all international flights, or worse, domestic flights as well).
Ron says “Certainly, many security experts seem to think”
Geez, here we go with the “many people say.”
Many people say I have large, beautiful hands.
Let’s hope not. I would not feel safe in a plane with laptops on the luggage…
Do you suggest Toronto as the best option for east coasters to EU?
I don’t need my laptop or camera in the plane, but I have a nice setup and I do not want the hell beat out of it by the baggage handlers, never mind the potential for theft. Can you even purchase insurance to cover this kind of risk at a reasonable cost? Probably not, certainly nothing that will replace your valuable goods in time to use on your trip. And if there is insurance, it rarely pays the real value of your belongings and is usually a fraction of replacement cost. I have never trusted my equipment to the checked baggage demons.
The airlines really need to come up with a specialized transport mechanism for people’s valuable electronics. Sooner or later one will, for an additional fee I’m sure.
In the meantime, my international travel searches are going to be through Canada from now on.
Oh, and who really believes the suicide bomber has to have the laptop in his hands to blow it up? Really? Smart enough to make the fancy bomb and too stupid to have a detonator that works from 100 feet away? My car key starts my car at that distance.
Will this just be ex-Europe?
There’s already extra security screening (usually at the gate) for flights from most int’l destinations to the USA. I call it the “water bottle check” — because that’s usually what they confiscate. Why not have these guys focus on laptops instead? If there’s no way of knowing that they’re bombs, isn’t that also a problem in the cargo hold?
And this is a check beyond what is already going on at the x-ray machines!
This stuff is always a problem because you have to trust the intelligence community and they really can’t share everything they know. But you’d hope there’s enough brain power there to do this as rationally as possible.
@Ron has been peeing his pants since Gary first posted about this possibility. The terrorists just love the Rons of the world – it proves their tactics are working. To proclaim those who are upset by this specious policy “whiners” proves he has no knowledge of the modern world, the value of the content on laptops, and the ease with which valuable items are broken or pilfered when down below. I just hope Ron has built himself safe rooms inside of safe rooms at home. Otherwise, who knows what evils of the world might befall him.
@Jonathan that’s the expectation
@Justin B or Montreal (Toronto will have more flights, I suggest any non-US citizen avoid Toronto preclearance however)
It is possible to carry “riders” on most home insurance policies to cover the loss or damage of items of special value such as cameras, computers, etc. I have one on my home policy and the extra cost is not extraordinary.
@Rusty correct
Yeah, you’ll start adding a connection in Canada, just like you’ll never, ever fly United again. Don’t like the aviation rules? Take the bus or the boat.
@JetAway
I’m sure you are correct, but given the odds of multiple claims for someone who checks expensive camera equipment in their luggage fairly often, how long do you think it would be before your home owner’s insurance premium cost you more than the cost of your equipment? Maybe I exaggerate slightly, but insurance companies are not in the business of replacing things over and over again at their loss. I wouldn’t want to risk my home owners insurance premiums more than once over my checked baggage, even if I have valuable checked baggage.
These new rules are a nightmare for digital nomads and people who travel often and work at the same time. I always carry my Macbook and photography equipment in my hand luggage; there’s no way I would trust putting it in my checked bags. Plus I love to get work done on flights! I agree about the insurance costs also, I struggled to get my insurance company to even cover all my electronics as hand luggage let alone in the hold. I really hope these rules don’t spread to all routes!
@Dan “If a device big enough to take down a plane can fit in a laptop then why would it matter if it is in the cabin or in the cargo hold?”
There was a so-called aviation security expert on TV in the UK after the middle-east ban was announced who was asked just this question and his reply was that it’s because the cargo hold isn’t pressurized and therefore the effect of an explosion would be much less. Unfortunately, the presenters were clearly as ignorant as the expert and didn’t or couldn’t point out to him that he was talking total rubbish. What hope is there though with “experts” like this?
Data point. My dad flew through IST Sunday to ORD on Turkish. they enforced the laptop ban on that flight. It has begun…
–The ban lacks common sense. It is like setting the USA speed limit at 30 mph because “it saves lives”, ignoring the fact that a 30 mph speed limit would destroy the GDP.
–Anyone that cares about their electronics, and their information on the electronics, will have reconsider traveling plans where the ban is in place.
–Considering that stupid policy is in place on flights of Royal Jordanian Airlines RJAL.AM, Egypt Air, Turkish Airlines, Saudi Arabian Airlines, Kuwait Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Qatar Airways, Emirates and Etihad Airways;
–I think they should go whole hog. That is put the ban in place for all international flights.
–Stay with me here: that would put a crimp on USA international travel. Hurt Delta, American, and United, and cause a general uproar.
–I am willing to bet they reverse the ban for good for within a couple of day. It is worth the short term pain to obtain the general long term good.
Flyer Fun, I almost agree. But going whole hog would mean implementing the ban on ALL flights, both international and domestic. (And it could be justified on the grounds that 9/11, that dread boogyman, involved domestic US transcon flights.)
The average American who never travels internationally snoozed through the Middle East electronics ban, but they might just notice not being able to take their iPad and their camera to Disney World (not to mention the complete disruption of the US economy the ban would cause). And it’s about time their incessant desire for constantly-increasing security theater caused THEM some real pain.
@iahphx – it is simply incorrect to say “most” international flights to the U.S have secondary screening at the gate. I’ve flown EU-US 8 times in the last six months, and only once did I have secondary at the gate screening (at LHR, on BA, and they had no issues with me bringing a water bottle on board. Much more common in Asia (HKG, ICN) than Europe, but still not “most”
@ Flyer Fun – um, this expansion absolutely hurts US carriers. They fly Europe to US you know.
As a business traveler – it’s not about inconvenience. That laptop (and those of my colleagues) is key to the business I am doing. I simply don’t trust the baggage handling system to not A) break it or B) lose or steal it.
This whole thing is ridiculous. The terrorists are winning.
@Peter – Istanbul was included in the original ban from March
I really do hope they deploy this domestically it is the only way it will eventually die I suspect. On the bright side I suspect award availability TATL in F/J at least return will improve, hell AA might even have a couple of seats.
@JetAway You are correct about riders but many folks, myself included, have relatively high deductibles on our homeowners insurance to keep costs down. Also you might want to read up on CLUE before you start making claims on your homeowners insurance.
What next? First it’s Comey getting fired and now I can’t bring my laptop onboard my flight to Europe. Things are going downhill really fast!
What if I only have a carry-on, with my laptop inside? Just forget that everything is in there, and hope it all arrives intact?
Sounds like you need to really trust all airlines, all the airports and all employees involved with both.
Who is that trusting?
I don’t need my laptop in the air. Nice to have, but I can survive without it. But I despise checking bags at all in the best of circumstances, and I certainly have no interest whatsoever in leaving a laptop at the mercy of the people whose hands it must pass through before I see it again. Also, I have a nice camera. I didn’t purchase it for the purpose of risking it in checked luggage, nor for the purpose of leaving it at home when I travel.
I think the TSA is one of the worst security agencies in the world. To say that passengers inspected by the TSA (domestic and outgoing flights) are OK with electronics because they’ve passed through the hands of these incompetents, but those inspected in other airports in other parts of the world are not, is simply ridiculous. I’m half expecting that within a year, the DHS will decide that aviation is simply too dangerous to do in the U.S. anymore, and we’ll need to take buses to the border to get on an airplane.
@ madguy Well, your sophomoric reply to my comment above just reinforces my point. I’m not a security expert and neither is Gary. I suspect that you are not one, too, and that the vast majority of those leaving comments here are not.
I actually travel quite frequently, domestically and internationally, and assume the risks associated with car, train, and air travel frequently and willfully. Rather than building a safe room, I actually got on a plane shortly after 9/11.
None of us knows the specific information and the associated perceived threat that has led Homeland Security to consider this ban. Again, if I have to choose between accepting their judgment or that of someone with no knowledge of a specific threat and no security background who is complaining about living without a laptop for several hours while being overly concerned that the computer might be damaged in his checked baggage … I’ll opt for the former. If that makes me a luddite, so be it.
Having said all that, I agree, in a sense, that the terrorists have won by virtue of the fact that we have any security apparatus at all when dealing with air travel.
Thank you, Ron, for stating your opinion politely. Some of the others here should learn from your example.
I have not checked a bag in over 500 flights during the last 20 years. I can’t see anything that could ever change that. I went on a 2-wk cruise with a rollaboard, including tuxedo, beachwear, everything. It has been a matter of focus, prioritization and making the tough decisions timely. My wife checked a bag once and it was delayed to the next flight, which kept her from attending an important family event. She is cured for the rest of her life, too.
As far as laptops are concerned – my data is in the cloud and I do not need to carry a laptop around to access it at my destination. The offices I go to have spare devices, the hotels I stay at have business centers and when visiting families and friends I will use their devices. The last thing I need anyway are devices that can be traced back to me.
The real damage here are the many hours lost queuing up to check or retrieve luggage by those who cannot be as flexible. Depending on how much their customers value their time this could be a very material economic damage.
Oh man, I sure don’t like this. You know my data is my data and I am not interested in putting all my private data (there is nothing of interest in my data really) on a server somewhere (the cloud). I will take my external hard drive with me in my carry on. No way will I check a laptop nor an iPad. No way.
I have an external drive like these and I formatted them to have both Apple Computers and Windows Computers read and write files. Just make sure you get one (or do it yourself) that can be used by both Apple computers and Windows computers.
http://www.pcmag.com/category2/0,2806,2376,00.asp
I’ll just have to scrounge around at my destination to find a computer to use and connect my external hard drive to it. The good thing is some airlines, I think I read British Airways is putting internet on their planes soon. I’m really really not a fan of this new rule. I feel really really sorry for people who travel a lot for business. Next I guess we all scramble to upgrade our smart phones.