Between late check-out rules and housekeeping costs, some Marriott employees cop to lying to guests and saying there are no suite upgrades available – since it’s costly and operationally difficult to honor the benefit.
Late Check-Out Benefits Are Difficult For Some Hotels To Honor
When Marriott bought Starwood, one of the first changes they made to the Marriott Rewards loyalty program was to introduce guaranteed late check-out for elite members. Gold members are entitled to 2 p.m. late check-out, and Platinum members and above are guaranteed 4 p.m. late check-out, although there are exceptions such as convention and resort properties where late check-out is subject to availability rather than guaranteed.
One Marriott general manager told me at the time that he wouldn’t do this, despite the edict from Marriott, because it was too difficult to turn rooms this way.
- Guests wouldn’t be checking out until 4 p.m.
- But other guests were entitled to check in at 3 p.m.
- And rooms take time to clean between guests
As another Marriott GM explains it,
When you have a high number of 4pm checkouts, and a 3pm check in, it also means that the arriving guest is going to be prevented from checking in until well after 3:30pm at best.
This general manager doesn’t seem to like elite members more broadly:
Last year alone, my property lost a hair over $50,000 in revenue from rewards members disputing cancellation fees, demanding refunds on prepaid non refundable stays and displacement of revenue from upgrades based on tier… and that’s not even addressing revenue losses due to abuse of rewards accounts (those are individual accounts, not shared spouse/friends/family accounts.
It’s Easier Not To Upgrade Members And Risk Late Check-out Complications
Another Marriott hotel employee explains that late check-out is also why they don’t honor their obligation to upgrade customers to suites. (Emphasis mine)
[T]his is why I don’t like upgrading plat and above into suites when it’s booked the next day. We have only one of each kind and if we upgrade you complimentary and then you ask for a 4pm checkout it [creates problems] the next day. I always just say it’s unavailable for an upgrade.
Offering An Empty Suite Isn’t Free – Since It’s More Expensive To Clean
Another hotel general manager explained to me last summer the reason that he forbid his team from honoring mandatory upgrades to available suites was housekeeping expense. They aren’t generating more revenue from the room, but it’s twice as expensive to clean.
Put another way, the hotel views offering upgrades into suites they haven’t sold as expensive rather than free. And the general manager views his job as limiting costs and that this trumps honoring his chain-level elite obligations.
Marriott Risks Its Business Letting Hotels Get Away With Degrading Its Brand
None of this should be the guest’s problem. Marriott offers a benefit to its customers in exchange for their business, and then the hotels operating under their brand don’t honor the benefit. Customers complain to Marriott, and nearly every time Marriott sides with the hotel.
- Hotels have an incentive to trade on Marriott’s name and reputation, not deliver on its promises
- It’s a game theory problem that stems from Marriott’s structure as a marketing company, in some cases managing hotels but in almost all cases someone else owns them. Franchises want the business Marriott brings them, but not the cost or hassle that comes with it.
- Those hotels defecting from the model diminishes Marriott’s brand reputation and value.
- But if Marriott were to enforce its promises and costs too aggressively, they’d chase away owners and therefore cut the fees they earn.
We see some culling of bad franchises every now and then, but overall Marriott (and also Hilton) cashes in on its reputation today for current business, seeing hotels as their customers and guests as marketing leads but this isn’t good business because it erodes their future ability to earn deliver guests to hotels. When properties don’t deliver on the brand promise, the value of the brand falls. And as an asset light business, the brand is all they have.
Agree with your premise here, however, the one that said they don’t upgrade into a suite if the suite is booked for the following night is booked is correct. Suite upgrade is space available, late checkout is guaranteed, so the late check out guarantee causes the suite to not be available.
With the exception of Ritz-Carlton*, St. Regis, Edition, Bulgaria, and many but not most full-service brands outside the USA and Canada, Marriott is NOT a hotel company. Marriott is a booking platform for the over 70 percent of its hotels that are owned independently and either operated by a franchisee or managed by a third-party, like Ambridge, on behalf of the franchisee. Hyatt only delivers on elite benefits better than Marriott, IHG and Hilton because Hyatt manages the majority of its full-service branded properties. I think that will begin to change since as I understand it Thompson is NOT managed by Hyatt and you have the immense growth of timeshare/all-inclusive resorts plus independent hotels under JdV in Europe.
* There are 3 Ritz-Carltons (Montreal, Chicago and Kuala Lumpur) that are franchised or licensed.
Solution: 3 pm late-check-out and 4 pm check-in. You can clean a suite in 1 hour. Most hotels are 11 am or 12 pm check-in. So even if you get a 1 or 2 pm late check-out, that’s still 2 or 3 hotels to clean a room.
Incentives cost money. Who knew.
@Farnorthtrader – not according to Marriott.
“subject to availability” means it needs to be available “upon arrival” and for the “length of the stay” not the night after the stay.
Or better yet, change the upgrade benefit to suites only for titaniums and ambassadors. Same for late check-out. There are way too many platinums. Platinum should only have a fixed number of lounge passes (as opposed to unlimited lounge access) and 1 or 2 pm late check-out. Marriott has done this to themselves by not differentiating the tangible benefits between platinum, titanium and ambassador.
“If everyone is an elite, then nobody is an elite,” just that simple. However, Marriott is really risking their brand reputation…but then again, are they? If others follow suit, how will anyone know or have data to make an informed decision to change brands? Remember when it was insane to think that customers should be charged to check in bags, and then one airline did it, the others held their breath and then jumped into the pool and are now drowning in the cash from these fees. It’s up to Marriott to enforce their brand promises but they don’t seem to indicate they will be doing so in the near future.
They should just say we can upgrade you to a suite only if you’re ok with a 2pm checkout or earlier, otherwise we have a regular room.
Except for Hyatt Globalists all other chains are “space available” or up to the individual hotel. Even if a suite is available if you check in early and there is a reasonable expectation it will be booked (or someone will pay to upgrade) the hotel shouldn’t give it away. They are a business, not a charity, so all you entitled people need to chill
BTW lifetime Marriott Titanium and Hilton Diamond but I never expect an upgrade (at least in the US). Gary, and many on here, seem to think hotels should bow down and kiss your a** when you walk in. Get over yourselves!!
I’ve been a long time Marriott booster and guest, And Lifetime Titanium . “The best in the business” I’d say to staff and friends and family. I don’t feel that way anymore. Gary’s right about brand erosion. I still tend towards Marriott but I’m back using Hyatt and others too. It’s not same without Bill Jr at the helm. Sad to see such a formerly outstanding hospitality company erode their brand name.
@AC – 1) IHG offers upgrades confirmed in advance by central reservations with 14 days of arrival – this is a choice that’s available after 40 nights (doesn’t require top tier)
2) Hyatt offers confirmed suite upgrades as a choice starting at 50 nights, doesn’t require Globalist
And as for ” Gary, and many on here, seem to think hotels should bow down and kiss your a** when you walk in. Get over yourselves!!”
No, I simply expect them to honor the terms of conditions of the program in which they participate.
The attitudes expressed by apparently general managers are all reasons why I avoid Marriott whenever possible and always book IHG, BTW responding to to some of the others who have commented IHG upgrades for Royal Ambassador are not “space available”, they are guaranteed at time of booking. Marriott has become joke brand and deserves to fail as they appear to hate their customers as much as this article indicates.
I don’t really care about room upgrades. For me it’s the other benefits that they take away that make me mad. Stayed at the Sheraton in Reston the other week. They list the club as open on their site and it is technically “open”, but they don’t serve snacks, breakfast, hor d’ouers, etc. in the “club”. When I brought it to their attention they really didn’t care in the least. Basically a courtyard with Sheraton branding.
@Gary – If stay #1 concludes at 4pm with a late checkout, and the suite is booked for stay #2 beginning at 3pm standard check-in time, then the suite is not available for the length of stay #1.
I found a workaround that works most of the time. If I do not get an upgrade, I cancel the reservation and re-book at a different hotel that will give me the upgrade. They will allow you to cancel your reservation without being charged if you go to a different hotel.
Late check-outs are denied because hotels don’t want to pay overtime to housekeepers. That is only primary reason.
Upgrades are denied because properties hope to sell those more premiere rooms
Par for the course with the franchise business model. Corporate will promise the moon to get people through the door and leave it to the franchises to deal with it. Whether they come back is a problem for next quarter. Even someone as dumb as a MBA should be able to rub 2 brain cells together and be able to see how a 4pm checkout and a 3pm checkin don’t work.
They should offer the option: Upgrade OR late check-out.
I had an issue at a Doubletree property last year where the hotel was sold out (and oversold I think due to crappy weather canceling dozens of flights at the adjacent airport). I was already booked in advance. They notified me as a Diamond of a room upgrade the day before I arrived. I arrive at about noon, told no rooms available to check in. Which is fine, thought I’d ask. Come back at 3. No rooms. Come back at 4, well, the real issue is they upgraded me to a suite, then granted the Diamond in it late check-out, and now they wouldn’t leave, and they didn’t have another room to put me in since they literally had some people camping in the lobby waiting for a room to open up. They gave me the next room cleaned (which wasn’t even equal to what I had booked in the first place), and then for whatever reason called me at 7pm to tell me the other Diamond finally left and do I want to move rooms. No, I want to complain.
But the overall theme is the corporate brand makes promises and dumps it on franchisees to deal with the execution and then losing further money making things right once they have to tell someone No or try and pitch them out of a room and end up comping a night per corporate. It’s a crappy situation to be in for everyone but the corporate brand.
I had a hotel condition a killer upgrade on no late checkout because they needed the room after the stay. I agreed.
Sometimes guests can make do or don’t need late checkout. There has to be a way to collect this data and find common ground here.
I am have titanium approaching ambassador and more and more I’m switching my business over to Hyatt. I am rarely getting upgrades even when suites are available for the duration of my stay. I’ve had to call the titanium line multiple times when I’m denied 4pm checkout even in a standard king and suddenly after the front desk gets a call from the titanium support the late checkout is magically honored.
A JDV hotel in Sweden very recently refused to upgrade me on a low occupancy night and also insisted that I couldn’t check out later than 1pm. And as a Globalist I was entitled to 4pm, but the hotel front desk insisted that it couldn’t be done. I eventually got some kind of upgrade but it was the noisiest room I could imagine there being at the property. I complained about the situation in the post-stay survey but all I got was a “you should have been entitled to 4pm late checkout” and a meaningless “sorry”.
@MW, writes, “Stayed at the Sheraton in Reston the other week. They list the club as open on their site, and it is technically “open,” but they don’t serve snacks, breakfast, hor dealers, etc. in the “club.” When I brought it to their attention they really didn’t care in the least.”
Your description is like a Sheraton that advertises a technically open swimming pool, but there is no water in it.
What is interesting to note is that the Amex FHR benefit of 4pm late checkout gets more consistently honored by hotels on the basis of FHR than on the basis of hotel programs with a 4pm late check-out entitlement benefit for me.
I don’t like any Marriott product. The last one I stayed at was Mandapa: a Ritz-Carlton reserve. Absolutely awful. I described it as filled with materials from a Home Depot in Salt Lake City and noted that their definition of fun was hamburger sushi rolls with a Heineken. And the constant upsells! We lasted less than 24 hours before leaving.
I appreciate the article and don’t mean to come off as aggressively as I’m about to, but:
Late checkout has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I am titanium and I regularly get denied late check out, get denied free breakfast (they toss $10 of points at me for a four day stay), get denied any room upgrade at all, neverminded a suite, the list goes on and on and on. The hotels don’t provide the benefits because they are scumbags. They know they can ignore Marriott’s promises and nothing will happen to them so they do. Full stop. I always get denied suite upgrades even when I haven’t requested late checkout and plan to leave by 8am for a flight.
Second point, the author made a mistake in referring to the people who stay at the hotel “customers”. They (us) are not the customers. The hotels are the customer, we are simply the product. That is why Marriot will side with the hotel every single time. This will be my last year being loyal to anyone or having any branded credit cards because its clear that every single benefit is a lie. “Based on availability” is a cop out because they simply claim everything is not available. I recently stayed in the St Regis San Francisco and politely asked for an upgrade (no late check out) and they flat out told me no. Then in the same breath they told me I was welcome to pay for an upgrade if I want to. That is proof right there the benefit is a lie and Marriott is a fraud. But I’m glad the CEO just broke the world record for executive pay at the company. He makes more in one year than the average worker in America makes in 30 lifetimes. And no, that is not an exaggeration.
AC, that is a GROSS misrepresentation of the article, which basically says that Marriott properties aren’t honoring their commitments to customers, and probably should. Did you read the article or go straight to anger?
“AC says:
April 8, 2024 at 1:30 pm
BTW lifetime Marriott Titanium and Hilton Diamond but I never expect an upgrade (at least in the US). Gary, and many on here, seem to think hotels should bow down and kiss your a** when you walk in. Get over yourselves!!”
they’ll do something much simpler – just take away the 4 p.m check out benefit. problem solved. align it with what hilton and ihg are offering.
Let’s be realistic here: Marriott sees engaged loyalty members as enemies rather than partners. Yes that’s insane but that’s what the evidence shows. The term Bonvoyed is an insult for a reason.
@Gary,”@Farnorthtrader – not according to Marriott.
“subject to availability” means it needs to be available “upon arrival” and for the “length of the stay” not the night after the stay.”
If the “length of stay” extends to 4 pm, then it is not available for the “length of stay” if the next check in is 3 pm. It is unavailable from 3 pm to 4 pm.
Guests are Bonvoys product.
Property owners are the customer.
Why dont property owners honor upgrades? Customers dont like paying for products that aren’t cost effective.
@christian
It’s not all engaged members who are hated. Just those who use their points and benefits for hotel stays.
Bonvoy will gladly convert points into over priced experiences that dont eat into property owners room inventories.
Marriott is engaging in so many lies I’ve stopped staying at their properties. Until they resolve their internal battles, they’re simply not a good place to stay.
Marriott is turning into the American Airlines of the hotel world: a bad product targeted to people who have little choice (due to route or location), to be avoided whenever you can and a product of lack of competition. Almost any major city has some outstanding non-Marriott properties at every price-point, and I’m between actively avoiding Marriott properties (due to all the lies) and simply depreferring them.
@ralph – So it’s just the guests who actually want value that bother Marriott? ROFL. And I thought I was cynical about the company’s direction.
The program is what you do, not what you say. If people have to fight for upgrades, then status only gives you grounds for haggling. To me, that’s not status. The best principle: book what you want. Be surprised by what they deliver. If they never surprise, there isn’t much reason to go back.
Marriott is like this because they are big and they are hard to avoid. Everyone is stuck with them. But IHG has treated me well (as has Hyatt even with lower status). More than that, these programs deliver value in terms of tangibles (i.e. redemption value relative to earning cost). If they also upgrade a room now and then, that’s great. I don’t pursue Marriott much because their points are hard to get relative to cost (their multipliers are not strong on the cards or in the program). That’s the thing you know. Promises of the occasional late checkout or room upgrade aren’t worth much on their own. It only counts if you see it happen.
I only use FHR when staying at upscale Bonvoy properties. Please cancel their worthless Brilliant card and its worthless Platinum status.
You are nothing special even if they say you are.
Yep
Interesting excuses. But really how many 4pm checkouts are there outside of resorts and conventions? And if it’s a problem typically the hotel will offer 2pm, or 1pm, which is usually acceptable. I don’t buy it.
IHG has “Guaranteed extended 4pm check-out” for Ambassador members when staying at InterContinental properties. That status costs only $200 per year.
IHG properties seem to have lower rates than nearby comparable Marriott, Hilton and Hyatt properties. And the IHG properties typically have a much higher cash-back return for me from the cash-back portal bookings than Marriott, Hilton and Hyatt stays. And now that IHG has breakfast as an elite benefit choice for Diamond members, IHG has become far more attractive of a program for me. Add in the 4 nights for the price of 3 award nights benefit from the IHG Premier credit cards, and IHG seems to provide me with more bang for the buck than I seem to get from Marriott in particular.
I don’t understand why people collect hotel points, they seem to be even more worthless than Airline points. And lets face it, despite the headlines FF points are practically worthless if you aren’t retired or such.
And I don’t get the hype on Marriott. I’ve stayed at Autograph that were thoroughly meh. Only really nice mariott I’ve ever stayed at is the St. Regis Mexico city.
The point bubble is really obviously becoming a bubble. The benefits are for the most part in name only.
I just book whatever hotel is decent and cheapest. And I’m moving my cards to 2% back. Still have a venture X which gives points, but those points are functionally 2% if used to pay travel bills.
But Gary, at this point what sort of reputation does Marriott even have? Those who travel frequently know their gimmicks, and those who don’t are happy to throw their money at the cheapest option. Folks grumble about absurd fees, operators that lie, and corporate that ignores complaints, yet they still book stays at Marriott hotels. Hotel occupancy rates are still holding up strong, and I’ve not seen much evidence that pillaging their brand has cost Marriott revenue versus competitors. I mean, it’s depressing, but as long as this is a profitable strategy, they’ll pursue it with vigor.
Here is a wild and crazy concept that most business are not familiar with. How about just being honest to guests and explain the situation. Most guests will understand if you provide a real reason. “Although the suite is not booked tonight, it is booked tomorrow with a 3pm checkin time. Therefore, the room is not “available” if you intend to use your guaranteed 4pm late check out benefit as time would be needed to prepare the room.” Then, the guest might say “I have an early flight tomorrow” or “ok, I’m willing to checkout earlier if I can be upgraded”. Now the guest is satisfied. But no, more businesses will assume the customer is an idiot so it’s better to just lie to them and always keep them disappointed.
I frequent Marriott brands because of the status earned (money spent). Although those with short sighted vison might find that pleasing customers becomes easier if services are denied (lied about), miss one key principle….A customer to please is better than no customer at all. End of story.
I completely agree with your comments. The other aspect you might include is the hotel franchisees are in many cases, REITS. Look it up. I am definitely a capitalist and want all to make big profits, but when you have private equity move into a working business model and take out 20-30% and also expect 3-5X growth over 5-7 years for a flip, it is going to require significant reduction in cost (translation: reduction in service – less employees, less daily cleanings, less upgrades, less late check ins, avoid loss of fees) I imagine this is why Marriott created a program to offer certificates for upgrades – to force franchisees to upgrade. If you don’t believe me about private equity, check nursing home industry, music industry, and others.
I stayed loyal moving up to titanium status, but eventually realized that I basically never received an upgrade. I decided that the program was a fraud. I am now moving to other hotels.
@AC. Hey AC — You are literally the most dense, opaque and clueless poster on this site! You paid for over 1,000 nights at Marriott to achieve Lifetime Titanium status — and yet you scold fellow Bonvoy members for requesting a complimentary room upgrade that is literally a stated benefit. Wake up, dude. You embarrass yourself and are worthy of being called out for the stupidity.
IThe major issue is Brands take their cuts from the top.
They average 18% to 22% including many other mandated brand requirements. The system is designed to put hotel in fault and many of the guest with dissatisfaction. When guests rates the hotel on Medallia surveys if the overall guest satisfactions dont meet the required scores, hotel gets fined. This became another revenue stream for the brands. Same way if you don’t sign up certain nos. of loyalty members there is another sets of penalties. BTW, you will see most of these issues with major operators, REITS or brands managed properties. Very rarely individually operated properties will not provide the benefits unless they have very compelling reasons. These owners don’t want tobpay those penalties to brands that is more than room revenue charged to guests.
If hotel property owners were prohibited from owning more than one hotel in say a 50 mile radius of another one of their hotel properties, I suspect that hotel rates would fall and that elite status benefits would be more likely to be better delivered. But such kind of limit is neither likely to happen anywhere I frequent nor is such nominal limit likely to be unavoidable via creative games.
I’ve been titanium elite for 11 years now. I travel about 90 nights per year. Do you want to know how many times I’ve been upgraded to a suite? ZERO! Even though I ask each time I check in. I am 62 nights away from lifetime Platinum.
This is my first year as Hyatt Globalist. Want to know how many times i I be been upgraded to a suite? TWENTY TWO.
Guess where I’m migrating all my stays to?
Marriott just doesn’t care about their elites. They just don’t care. I wrote Marriott corporate and described my experiences with Marriott. They didn’t even respond. Why would I continue to be treated the same as the guy in the next room who has spent $100 this year with Marriott?
I just don’t get it.