Marriott has spent a lot of time reducing the cost of the Bonvoy program for owners. One unique feature is that when guests use their points for a ‘free’ room, hotels still get to bill them for any resort or destination fee that they charge. At Hyatt and Hilton, a free night is an actual free night. Not so with Marriott.
Since the Bonvoy program launched five years ago I cannot think of a major change or addition that was a genuine improvement for members. Changes I’ve seen have focused on raising more money for Marriott, reducing costs for Marriott, and improving economics for owners.
Now that Marriott is varying the points price of a room constantly, and no longer has an award chart (or even a commitment to cap their redemption rates), they’re also changing how hotels get paid for member stays when redeeming points.
Marriott had largely adopted the Starwood hotels model (which is similar to Hyatt) that:
- Hotels receive very little for award stays when they aren’t full. It’s purely incremental revenue to the hotel, and since they have empty rooms anyway award guests aren’t trading off with guests who might pay more for the same room.
- But they receive more when they fill up – depending on just how full – but roughly speaking an amount equal to their average daily room rate for the year. The hotel doesn’t do as well selling a room to the Bonvoy program on peak nights as they would selling to the general public, but they still get an override that’s substantially higher.
That’s changing. As Marriott explains to hotel owners,
Today’s reimbursement process is complex, relies heavily on historical performance, and may influence hotel teams to pursue occupancy targets at the expense of profit. Your input has been heavily used to target these known pain points to revise the reimbursement framework, and better enable hotels in creating and executing against an optimal pricing strategy.
By reducing overall reimbursement complexities, hotels will have a single percentage applied to daily Loyalty RevPAR for standard award redemptions, as opposed to the current process that applies a Base Rate as well as multiple percentages based on daily occupancy.
As in previous years, each hotel will be assigned to an annual Redemption Reimbursement Policy in October for the calendar year ahead based upon brand tier, as well as redemption volume, and/or penetration as of Trailing Twelve Months from June 2023.
Full reimbursement materials for owners aren’t yet available, but it’s interesting that ‘redemption volume’ (old Marriott method of rewarding hotels more the more points nights they host, which encourages them to make redemptions available) appears to be making a comeback as part of calculating how much reimbursement a property will receive when a Bonvoy member books an award.
And Gary who really trust Marriott anymore? Thats the real question.
“reducing overall reimbursement complexities”
What could go wrong?
I’m curious to see whether this augurs the eventual end of successful gaming of points redemption by hotels like Ventana Big Sur, which routinely sells out mostly on points redemption.
Gary
Marriott has its flaws but I find it much better value for using points than at hilton and certainly better than other hotel programs. .
Hilton points have been dramatically devalued and are worth about HALF what marriott points are worth in europe. So often TWICE as many hilton points for a free night.at a similar priced hotel. Most european and asian marriott city hotels dont have resort fees so I havent encountered that issue there.
Hyatt is in a league by itself but for loyalty program but it is so hard to get and to keep Globalist while Marriot Platinum is very easy to get.
So I still dont know of a better loyalty program
You aren’t staying for free.
The post should read “Marriott Will Change How Hotels Get Paid When You Use Points to Pay for Your Stay.”
I wonder if hotel owners cringe and worry the way we consumers do, when they hear that he program is “enhancing” and “simplifying” based on “your input”.
This change won’t end up serving me well as a consumer, both with regard to the Marriott program and with regard to increasing the likelihood of other hotel programs going down this road.
Marriott is doing this change to address property owner/manager dissatisfaction with reimbursement amounts for award nights and to become more attractive to their property owner/operator clients. More so in this era where even more downmarket hotels are increasingly choosing to suffer somewhat lower occupancy rates in order to maintain or boost regular paid rates per occupied rooms.
Lifetime Platinum and Ambassador for the past 4 or 5 years. Total nights around 935. This year I’m at around 51 nights & $12K so far but I’m not pursuing a status with Bonvoy anymore. Couple of weeks ago got an email from my “ambassador” – laughable to be honest. The program has ZERO benefit and the higher tier you are the more overhead you get and again true upgrades are almost nonexistent. All my upcoming trips are across variety of hotels and I’ll be trying my best to avoid a Marriott property.
Marriott should just fix a value to the points and allow them to be redeemed as a voucher. Or at least be transparent. I’ve never understood how a legitimate 5-star hotel in southeast Asia can cost under 40,000 points per night (sometimes much less than that) but a brand-new Courtyard in the middle of nowhere in the United States is 50,000 points.
I would expect that before too long, Marriott redemption rates will be comparable to SkyMiles. Aspirational properties will likely reach 1 million points/night in peak seasons.
I’ve been Bonvoy Titanium in the past. So tired of the way the program works these days that I simply no
Longer try to achieve any hotel status except at Hyatt.
Cahn’t make this stuff up!
There is no world in which a Hilton point is worth HALF a Marriott point, and comparing the number of points required to book a free night at similarly priced Hilton and Marriott hotels without taking into the account differences in based earn rates makes it obvious that you are clueless.
Here’s are some clues:
The base earn rate for Marriott Platinum elites and above is 23.5 Marriott points/$
The base earn rate for Hilton Diamond elites is 32 Hilton points/$ (34 points/$ for ‘Aspire’ Diamonds)
Therefore, a Marriott award that costs 100K Marriott points/night is exactly the same as a Hilton award that costs:
100K Marriott points/night * (32 Hilton points/$)/(23.5 Marriott points/$) = 136K Hilton points/$
See that? 100K Marriott points = 136K
Off the bat, Hilton standard awards require 36% more points than equivalent Marriott standard awards simply because the two points currencies are different (different numbers of HH or BonVoy [BVY] points earned for the same spend).
With that in mind, let’s do actual comparisons by dummy booking Hilton and Marriott awards at comparable hotels in London, UK (i.e., hotel with that charge about the same revenue rates and are located similar parts of London), which is in Europe where a Hilton points is apparently “worth” less than HALF a Marriott point. In parentheses, I have provided cross-currency equivalent costs for each award)
1)
W London, $698/night, 0.3mi from city center, 77,000 BVY points/night (~= 104K HH/night)
Waldorf London, $608/night, 0.5mi from city center, 80,000 HH points/night (~=58K BVY/night)
2)
London Marriott Hotel County Hall, 0.6mi, $598/night, 104,500 BVY points/night (~=142K HH/night)
Conrad London St James, 0.61mi, $675/night, 80,000 HH points/night (~= 59K BVY/night)
3)
Sheraton Grand Park Lane, 0.9mi, $557/night, 75, 000 BVY points/night ( ~=102 HH/night)
London Hilton Park Lane, 1.0mi, $514/night, 80,000 HH points/night (~= 59K BVY/night)
See that? At three comparable high-end hotels within 1mile of London City Center, all Marriott awards are not just more expensive but SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than Hilton standard awards.
Therefore, the claim that
is total nonsense, as is the gobbledygook that
Hyatt cannot be in a league by itself if it’s “so hard to get and to keep Globalist while Marriott Platinum is very easy to get” [Hilton Diamond even easier to get]”!!! Just do a cost-to-benefit ratio analysis of how much it takes to earn and keep WoH Globalist vs. the status’ benefits compared to the competition and you will see that you have been gaslighted into uncritically accepting the “Hyatt is in a league by itself” nonsense.
Class dismissed!
Sorry for the many typos/syntactic/grammatical errors above but the point should be crystal clear: Hilton points have not been dramatically devalued and are not worth about HALF what marriott points are worth in europe.
G’day!
In terms of cents per point (cpp):
1)
— W London: $698/77K = 0.9cpp vs. 0.7cpp “face value” of a BVY point
— Waldorf London: $608/80K = 0.7cpp vs. 0.5cpp “face value” of a HH point
2)
— London Marriott Hotel County Hall: $598/104.5K = 0.5cpp vs 0.7cpp
— Waldorf London: $608/80K = 0.8cpp vs. 0.5cpp
3)
— Sheraton Grand Park Lane: $557/75K = 0.7cpp vs.0.7cpp
— London Hilton Park Lane: $514/80K = 0.6cpp vs. 0.5cpp
Marriott mean: (0.9+0.5+0.7)/3 = 0.7cpp vs. 0.7cpp
Hilton mean: (0.7 + 0.8 + 0.6)/3 = 0.7cpp vs. 0.5cpp
Hilton’s mean “redemption value” for the three properties is better than Marriott’s, as
0.7 cent/Hilton point = 0.7 * 32/23.5 = 0.95cent/Marriott point
which is greater than 0.7 cent/Marriott point.
Any questions?
@DCS thank you for the detailed point about considering ease of earn when valuing points. I think it’s something that’s often overlooked.
DCS, you have assumed, implicitly, that people earn hotel points from staying at hotels.
I suspect most readers of this blog earn most of their points through a credit card. These cards earn 1 point per dollar. I am oversimplifying, but without loss of generality. If you amass a stash of 20,000 points on Chase Ultimate Rewards cards, you can convert them to 20,000 Hyatt points or 20,000 Marriott points.
20,000 Hyatt points will get you an upscale room in midtown Manhattan.
20,000 Marriott points will get you a Fairfield Inn on the side of the highway in middle America.
That’s exactly what is meant by each Hyatt point being worth triple each Marriott point. Your argument hinges on the fact that Marriott awards three times as many points as does Hyatt for an equally priced hotel stay. This argument is mostly irrelevant if your points are earned mostly via credit cards.
DCS
with all due respect,
you compared HIGH PRICED hotels in London. Not a good statistical random sample.
if you stay at those hotels then it may make sense as you point out.
I stay in marriotts and hiltons which cost usually €150-200 per night and in those properties in Europe or Asia i usually need at least twice as much Hilton points as Bonvoy points for a similar priced room.
With respect to Hyatt and “gaslighing” I really didnt understand your point??? I have had Globalist for 3 years and found it to be the best elite program of all in my opinion.
@josh — Feel free to do the comparisons for hotels that you would redeem your points for. I suspect that most who play the game would prefer to redeem their points for the types of high-end properties that I included in my comparison.
The point was that for how much it costs to earn and retain the Hyatt Globalist status, simple cost-to-benefit analysis would show that the status is not worth the money nor is it in a “league by itself”, as per self-anointed “travel gurus” constant gaslighting. Are 4 “confirmed’ suite upgrade instruments worth the $20K that it costs to earn the Globalist status? Not at all, because for that kind of money one should be able to book suites outright without having to depend on the crap shoot that is every type of elite suite upgrade.
You “found Globalist to be the best elite program of all”. The question is what is your reference point? On what basis is Globalist the “best:” elite status?
@DCS
a. As Globalist you always get upgraded to suites (there is no limit of 4 suite upgrades).
b. I always got the upgrade there automatically (at Marriott and Hilton often need to politely “discuss” with front desk to get it)
c.free parking on award stays is an amazing benefit at european city hotels
d. breakfast in restaurant and usually better quality than the others
e. some great award deals as based on tier and not on cash price
f. exec lounges are never crowded
@Alison – My analysis is based on how hotel loyalty programs are structured or designed to work, therefore, it is general and objective. Points earned from other sources do not affect the analysis. They simply prevent the generalization of the results because they inject in the mix individual circumstances, which are subjective.
By all means, feel free to do the analysis for your particular situation by inserting whatever your own base earn rate is. However, I do not believe that for hotel loyalty, folks who earn most of their points through credit cards at 1 point/$ are competitive. As far as I am concerned, using transferable points currencies like Chase UR points to book hotel award stays is close to heresy.
That is the general confusion. The transferability of points currencies from one denomination (e.g., UR points) to another (e.g., WoH points) has absolutely nothing do with how much the points are “worth”. The only reason the transfer of Chase UR points to Hyatt points is favorable is that, quite arbitrarily, Hyatt’s points scale goes only up to about 50K, whereas IHG, Radisson, Marriott and Hilton points scales can go up to as high 3 – 4 * 50K. Importantly, however, it is not at all financially advantageous to Hyatt that Chase UR points can be transferred favorably to WoH points and then be used to book free nights at Hyatt hotels. Why not? Because, as happened with SPG, folks earning points on Chase CCs without ever setting foot in Hyatt hotels and then transferring those points to Hyatt points to book award stays at Hyatt hotels, which in turn must be reimbursed in real currency by World of Hyatt, represents a huge loss of revenue for Hyatt hotels . Think about that and you will see why IHG, Radisson, Marriott and Hilton purposely make the transfer of bank points to their respective points currencies very unfavorable, but the short of it is that those programs force members to spend real money at their respective hotels in order to earn enough points to redeem for free stays. All the revenue and point activities remain in-house and, therefore, benefit the chains’ bottom line.
@Josh — You are simply regurgitating what self-anointed “travel gurus” claim are the advantages of World of Hyatt or listing benefits that top elites of other programs also enjoy. We can quibble about the “quality” of the benefits, which is inherently subjective, but as a HH Lifetime Diamond, I get pretty much the same benefits that you get, except that you must pay $20K/year for them and I pay nothing (or a regular HH Diamond would pay just $450/year).
Do a cost-to-benefit analysis and call me in the morning. Listing the benefits you get does not prove WoH Globalist that is in a “league by itself” or the “best” because I can make the same claims and prove them objectively (as I have, countless times).
G’day
I’d add that a lifetime globalist staying 100 nights (including earned nights from credit card) would get 12 suite upgrade certificates that can confirm up to 84 nights per year at time of booking into a suite and that this is entirely separate from upgrades at check-in up to suites subject to availability [the confirmed upgrades are booked out of revenue inventory, if a standard suite is for sale it is eligible\
I would add that HH LTDs have unlimited global automated upgrades, which include suites, clear up to 3 days before a stay and are prioritized ahead of regular Diamonds and Golds. Of course, like every type of room upgrade, they dependent on availability, but the fact that they are automated like airline cabin upgrades means that individual hotels cannot opt out of offering the benefit.
I would add that HH LTDs have unlimited global automated upgrades, which include suites, clear up to 3 days before a stay and are prioritized ahead of regular Diamonds and Golds. Of course, like every type of room upgrade, they dependent on availability, but the fact that they are automated like airline cabin upgrades means that individual hotels cannot opt out of offering the benefit.
That is the claim, except that, based on countless accusations that properties “play games with availability”, that is not how things work in practice, is it? A source for the claim would be helpful.
I just searched for a source to this claim:
Like many of his other claims, the “thought leader” simply made up that one as well to make Hyatt’s so-called ‘confirmed’ suite upgrades seem better than they are. If so-called ‘confirmed’ suite upgrades are subject to availability, then they are just like any other type of room upgrade. Solution: gaslight by repeatedly claiming that “if a standard suite is for sale it is eligible [to ‘confirm’ as an upgrade]”, even though the claim is utterly bogus.
Well, the claim must be news to World of Hyatt because here’s what the program’s official T&C say about so-called ‘confirmed’ suite upgrades:
Oops! So-called ‘confirmed suite upgrades are, after all, capacity controlled like any other type of FREE room upgrade!
Same benefits??? Are you saying the $25 F&B credit you get at the Conrad in Manhattan is equivalent to the complimentary, unlimited food and beverages, breakfast I get at the Park Hyatt?
Of course subject to availability in the case of Hyatt means available for sale. That is directly from Hyatt. It is also how the program has worked since it was first introduced nearly 15 years ago.
As Gloablist in the past I have always been able to book a room with points if a standard room was availbale for sale online..In the few cases i was not able to, a quick call to Hyatt Globalist line resolved the problem. Hyatt is by far the best at making clear rules and sticking to them.
@Regis — The US in the not the world. As anyone who has been here long enough knows, I travel primarily overseas, where I have the option to have free full breakfast that’s usually nothing a “royal feast” in the hotel restaurant or free continental breakfast in the exec lounge. In the US, where Hilton’s free continental breakfast has never been anything to write home about, I actually prefer the F&B vouchers, which I use to offset by bar tabs, while I treat myself to much better breakfast.
Importantly, while much is being made about Hilton replacing their generally lousy breakfast in the US with F&B vouchers, I suggest you read my analysis of the subject at the link below to see how it is a case of a mountain is being made out of a molehill (or “it’s a tempest in a teapot”, pick your metaphor):
https://bit.ly/3NDdCAt
Read it and let me know what you think (hint: the proportion of Hilton hotels that does not offer free breakfast in the US is tiny compared to hotels that offer free breakfast…really).
“Same benefits?”, you asked? How about Globalists not getting the 4th or 5th award night free, which is quantifiably the single most valuable perk in hotel loyalty? Like I said, we can quibble about the “quality” of benefits, which is inherently subjective, but a cost-to-benefit ratio analysis would show that WoH Globalist benefits are not worth the $20K that one must pay yearly to earn or keep the status.
LOL. Anyone can make such a claim, but he proof is in the pudding. Based on the number of complaints about how “properties play games with availability”, I say that your interpretation is simply made-up.
In fact, Hyatt managers are not that stupid. If it were true that “a standard suite available for sale is automatically available as an upgrade”, almost every single FREE suite award upgrade would clear, but that is simply not the case.
Only two hotel programs can currently claim that if “a standard suite is available for sale it is also automatically available as an upgrade” and they are Accord ALL awards and Hilton Honors “premium” awards, which is why they are exorbitantly priced. In both cases, points are treated just as cash based on a fixed exchange rate.
To claim that “availability in the case of Hyatt means available for sale” is ridiculous because it would mean that Hyatt believes that the cash rate of any available standard suite is worth the same as suite upgrade certificate and can be used interchangeably, which would be truly stupid…
DCS
Excuse me but what you say is total nonsense.
The Hyatt policy WORKS as I and my colleagues have used it many times.
Rooms for points are always available when standard rooms are for sale.
Clear and simple
@josh — you know deep down that is not remotely true. That you had to call Hyatt and were accommodated to avoid haggling does not make it a rule. It is reminiscent of SPG elites, who had been convinced by self-anointed “travel gurus” that they were “guaranteed” suite upgrades, complaining that properties were not giving them suites even when these were available.
Dcs
Haha. I can confirm that even deep down I know it’s true. That is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Total nonsense. If that were the case, every property would have standard awards m availability galore, which ain’t the case at all.
Accord ALL awards and Hilton’s “premium” awards (like airline “anytime” awards) are the only ones that are always available for booking with points if the same rooms (seats) are available for cash sale because in such cases points and cash are treated as equivalent. No other awards qualify!!!