Out Of Planes, American Airlines Abandons Israel Until Fall To Fund Europe Flight [Roundup]

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Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary »

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Comments

  1. US airlines are and will be the most vulnerable to security not just in Israel but throughout the world. While other airlines may be restarting Israel, no US airline is or will restart Israel until the war is over. Israel sets the timeline for when it is satisfied.
    AA was the last to jump back into Israel before; DL and UA are likely to restart NYC as soon as they can but Israel as a market and DL and UA’s routes outside of NYC will be the last to return.
    DL has an advantage with its partnership with El Al which is still flying.

  2. So some Mormon drinks too much, runs over his wife with a car, and Delta is somehow responsible for his actions? I don’t want to go all Tim Dunn but this is in no way Delta’s fault. The whole “It’s not my fault because she made me mad/I don’t take personal responsibility for my actions/I conveniently don’t remember what happened/I drank too much but that’s not my fault either defense is serious weak sauce.

  3. Christian nails this.

    Delta would (and probably should) assume that the non-drunk spouse is the one that would be driving, or they are taking an Uber etc.

    If airlines are going to be legally responsible for getting passengers to their final destination (i.e. ground travel as well) without said passenger drunk driving, then **shocker** they would just stop serving alcohol.

  4. Larger bins aren’t going to make a difference if FAs aren’t going to repetitively, directly coach/tell people to load them correctly. (And hell, they barely bother with ‘wheels first’ .)

    *Yes, there are illustrated placards in the new bins. If anyone expects pax to notice, read, and comply with them is delusional.

  5. Larger bins aren’t going to make a difference when FAs insist you gate check to make their life easier and when airlines, AA, put in such tight schedules people barely have time to get on the plane before they want to shut the doors and push back.

  6. Why would anyone fly cattle car Southwest and their cheery customer service when you can kick your feet up and fly the universe’s #1 premier airline, Delta? And you can earn priceless SkyPesos to boot!

  7. According to Mr. Dunn’s posts over the years, Delta’s main advantage is its status as the world’s only PERFECT airline.

  8. @Timothy Dunn
    You’re right about the Skypesos! I’m going to cash in my pension and precious metals and purchase Skypesos. No matter what I’ll at least be able to fly once from Wichita to Cleveland on a red eye, in a middle seat next to the toilet with a 7 hour layover in Atlanta. Once.

  9. When Tim Dunn wakes up on Sunday, and heads over here to meticulously respond to each of the comments with his name on them, we all win!
    You are right – forget the Super Bowl.

  10. AA doesn’t and can’t compete well in the long haul market…their fleet is inadequate in number and size…it is a shame. Retiring the 330 fleet was short sighted and cancelling the 350 orders puts too much of their long haul fleet in one category…smaller and more fuel efficient. While this should be part of a long haul fleet to service smaller markets, running two or three flights to fill demand when one or two would suffice leads to crowded airspace and that is more inefficient overall…plus premium products can’t be offered on smaller craft the same way they can on larger.

  11. Liquor liability is a real thing, Delta may face a huge fine on that case. They will show the lack of tips training and such in addition to the other issues.

  12. In my experience, DAL is the best amongst the big US3 in just about every way. But I’m curious why someone feels the need to repeatedly point that out, and even more curious as to why so many react so disparagingly against said person for doing so. There’s nothing at stake here that I can see. It’s just an unfeeling and greedy corporation, like any other, that happens to execute better than its peers. I guess it’s like the Super Bowl, where people become emotionally invested in an outcome that have no consequence?

  13. Enough with all the nonsense so we can focus on what’s really important.

    Which UC is the gelato machine in?

  14. “When people wake up on Sunday thinking of me, I have won”

    Ah genius….they are not thinking about you for positive reasons. That you welcome this sort of attention is not a healthy thing.

  15. If you are waking up thinking about someone on the internet, the problem is solely yours. Period.

    AA is still not missing out on anything to Israel.

  16. Tim, UA makes a load of money off its Israel routes. Delta has not been able to manage so well, and AA has really done atrocious for some reason. Not sure why the other can’t figure it out when UA makes a killing off it.

  17. UA isn’t making anything to Israel right now.

    and they didn’t outperform DL on a system wide basis in the first 3 quarters of 2023 before Hamas attacked Israel and the war started.
    Please do tell us what UA lost money on that offset their massive TLV profits.

  18. you wanted to make a statement that you couldn’t back up w/ data and isn’t relevant right now.

    UA simply doesn’t make more money just because it flies a much larger international route system.

    DL made 1.8X as much as UA per seat mile across the Pacific and 1.6X as much across the Atlantic (which includes the Atlantic).
    If UA makes or made so much money to TLV, then let us know where it made considerably less – may be lost money – compared to DL and AA.
    LHR might be a good place to look where AA and DL both have JVs but UA does not.

  19. Mr. Dunn, I wasn’t here to compare Delta and United performance in all markets. I was comparing the TLV markets, please stick to the topic.

  20. Doesn’t matter how far you wanted to make the comparison.
    Your statement that “UA makes a load of money off its Israel routes.” is unsubstantiated because US carriers (and nowhere in the world) report profit by route or city.

    what is known is global region profitability and, on that basis, using data which each carrier
    reports to the DOT, UAL lags DAL by a fairly significant basis across the Atlantic and Pacific.

    If UA does so well to TLV, then there clearly are markets where it underperforms.

    UA WAS the largest US carrier to TLV before the current war so it had the most revenue on its own metal.
    Now that DL has a codeshare on LY and that could move into a JV, even UAL’s revenue could be surpassed WHEN US carriers are able to return to TLV. but that is all speculative, including any statements about how much any carrier makes in any city or on any route.

  21. Lol, you just can’t resist when someone says that Delta is not the best in even a single market or aspect.

    I would suggest getting a life, Delta does not care about you. Find a real life person who loves you back, not a dumb corporation to be a fanboy of.

  22. common,
    I have participated in aviation-related social media for over 20 years and the exchange between us is precisely why I keep at it.

    To start this exchange, you posted:
    “Tim, UA makes a load of money off its Israel routes. Delta has not been able to manage so well, and AA has really done atrocious for some reason. Not sure why the other can’t figure it out when UA makes a killing off it”

    In fact, you don’t have any facts to back up your statement (as stated above), I did reply with what is publicly known, but instead of admitting your mistake you tried to first avoid admitting that I am right but doubled down eventually into personal attacks.

    I don’t care what anyone thinks about what I post here. The reason I post is because I provide facts and data that challenge the assumptions and bias that are rapid in airline discussions.

    All you had to say is “you are right. UA HAD more capacity… I misspoke.” and that would be the end of the issue.

    Clearly, I have a reason to get up tomorrow as long as there are people like you that get basic facts wrong, fly off the handle making assumptions, and then double down w/ name-calling when you are corrected.

  23. I truly didn’t mean to name call you, but seriously, all I did was point out a well known industry fact, not even intending to put Delta down, just to point out that AA has never been able to figure it out for unknown reasons, but you took it very personal, and you started defending Delta that UA must be losing money elsewhere. Ok?

    That’s not what we’re discussing here and I don’t care. Delta can be the greatest, United can be the worst, I’m not married to any of them.

  24. it’s not personal, you didn’t offend me, and it has nothing to do with American, Delta, United or anyone else.

    You made a statement about United making lots of money flying to Israel
    That is simply not verifiable for ANY US airline and no other global airline because they don’t report profits by city.
    THAT is the issue and doubling down trying to make the discussion anything other than point is the issue.

    Your statement was wrong because it can’t be verified. Even if you know UA’s profits for TLV, you and UA don’t know what any other airline made or makes.

    Just admit your statement was incorrect and move on.

  25. You are correct that this information is not made public. You are incorrect that there is no way of knowing this otherwise.

    You can choose whether to believe it or not. I won’t take it personally.

  26. making back of the envelope calculations based on assumptions and use of system level data obviously is one way to do it.

    And UA COULD HAVE made more money if it had the same profit margin per flight as AA and DL had for their transatlantic networks for which the profit margin is known but then you have to explain why UA makes about 60% of what DL does on its transatlantic network.

    And arguing that data is incorrect is fine as long as you tell us where we should take the profit from so that UA makes more than DL across the Atlantic (since they reported they don’t) since all of the regional profitability numbers to roll up to their SEC-reported system numbers.

    thank you for admitting that your statement wasn’t based on published or verifiable facts.

  27. With her having her legs up in the air like that and closed doors, I can only imagine what he is doing. Must be that Delta premium ride.

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