An American Airlines passenger flying from Charlotte to Munich purchased a business class ticket that they say cost them $4,600. Once they boarded they discovered that their seat did not move. It did not recline. It did not turn into a bed. It was just a seat – not the thing they had purchased.
There weren’t any open seats in the cabin. They could not change seats. During the flight, crew tried to fix the seat. It didn’t work. That just disengaged the seat from the rail which attaches it to the floor, and when the plane landed they went “sliding towards the front of the plane.”
Naturally they complained to American about the experience.
- It took 10 days to hear back
- And they were given 5,000 miles
Here’s the sign on the seat:
Airlines advertise one thing to convince you to buy a ticket, and to spend more. And they deliver something else. One of the most common occurrences is advertising their most comfortable seats to get you to spend more to upgrade from coach to first class, and then delivering something entirely different.
For instance this was a pitch to upgrade to first class on a standard domestic Airbus A321. They show you that you’re getting their lie flat seat that’s only on the Airbus A321T which operates mostly between New York JFK and premium West Coast markets.
Customers spending the extra money based on what American shows them get this instead:
This isn’t just an American Airlines issue! Here’s a Delta passenger who reported a business class seat on Wednesday flying from Athens back to the States. They were concerned they’d only receive “2,000 miles” for a $5,000 ticket that didn’t give them what they’d purchased.
- Airlines claim they’re selling you a premium product when you go to make your purchase
- But then claim they were just selling you transportation from point A to point B when they fail to deliver
- That’s a bait and switch, everything you buy from an airline is at your own risk
The government has all sorts of new rules for exactly how airline fees have to be displayed, and for refunding tickets that are less generous than what Delta and United already do. But they didn’t do things they’d talked about like requiring refunds when an airline changes the product they’re offering, to no longer deliver what they actually sold (for instance, swapping a widebody aircraft with lie flat seats for a domestic plane that doesn’t have these). And customers can’t really pursue an airline over unfair practices outside of the DOT.
A credit of a few hundred dollars or 10,000 – 20,000 miles here is silly. The entire reason to spend thousands of dollars on business class is the lie flat seat for sleeping. If the airline doesn’t actually deliver it, they haven’t earned the money. In virtually any other context, they’d have to refund the full amount. But at a minimum should be refunding the difference between what they sold (business class) and what they delivered (premium economy at best).
In New Zealand, Emirates was ordered to pay $8,468 for failing to deliver the advertised product. Singapore Airlines was just ordered to pay $2,267. If you sell a business class seat, the seat doesn’t recline, you haven’t delivered the promised business class – and you can’t keep the money you’ve charged for it. That sounds right to me.
Passenger paid too much for the ticket in the first place . AA ought to have refunded $5,000. dollars, not 5,000 miles .
So happy I left AA after decades of being loyal.
The last straw for me was admiting they made a mistake and canceled my family of 8′ return ticket from SNA and could only book us from LAX (they had canceled the outbound too but they said it was weather)
So 2, $250 cab rides later, 9 extra hours of airport time, scattered seats
They offered 5k miles… I refused they offered $150 flight credit. Tried to refuse that just asking for one cab ride to be reimbursed since they admitted someone at ORD “goofed”
I wish I would have thought to complain to DOT but I didn’t I just quietly status matched against UA, canceled my AA world elite card of which I was a member for 8 years – and never looked back.
I should thank them for having me to finally take a hard look at thier product and service and leave for a much better operation.
American Airlines – they are making Ryanair, Spirit and Frontier Airlines look good.
what Alert said.
This broken seat on aircraft issue is getting out of hand. What we need is a crowd-sourced App, which would flag these specific seats on specific aircraft. The logical App to pick this up would be http://www.seatguru.com (which was bought by tripadvisor.com). They could just add “broken seat” to their existing legend, and provide a really useful service.
Man have times changed. Back in 2017 I was flying J from Madrid on AA and they swapped in a plane with angled flat seats that were in service at the time. I didn’t even complain but got 50k points added to my Advantage account.
It doesn’t matter how much the passenger paid for the seat. It needs to be fully refunded. The difference between business and economy class isn’t enough, because the passenger wouldn’t have paid the economy fare. It’s not right for the airline to essentially force a sale of something the customer didn’t buy and don’t want.
If it’s not already in practice then it needs to be regulated. If the primary feature of what you’re buying (a lie flat seat) wasn’t delivered, then a full refund is due. You could argue you ate the business class meal and had more space than you would in economy, even in the seated upright position, but because the value of these perks aren’t quantified, there is no way to perform a partial refund. The full ticket price paid is due to the passenger.
A 5,000 mile gesture is appropriate if the business class cabin ran out of a dessert option. It’s not appropriate when business class wasn’t business class.
@Gary – What about recourse through small claims court?
Twice in the last year when I complained to AA about failing to deliver what I paid for and asking for some sort of compensation, they responded with “thanks for feedback”. Unless I am using AA miles of which I have gobs, I book anywhere but AA.
They are penny wise and pound foolish, because I had begun buying 1st class.
AA should just follow Frontier and advertise they no longer offer a passenger service department and any complaints will be ignored.
Given the canned poor responses they now provide, it would probably be the first honest thing they’ve done in recent history.
The new DOT rules has just made it easier for them to do less.
A couple of months ago my wife, an AA Platinum Pro member, and I took a bike box, with a bicycle, overseas. The additional charge was $150. We left the bike there and used the box, which was within limits, as luggage for the two legs of the return (PUJ to MIA, later MIA to MSP). The first segment’s charge for it was $0, the second was $200 because no one knew what to do with a bike box not having a bike. When I argued they dropped it to $150 since that was the precedent.
AA brushed me off, then out of nowhere contacted me again with links for “lost or damaged” luggage. When I said it was neither I got a lecture about having oversized, excess and overweight luggage. When I said it was none of those either they said they couldn’t overrule the agent but would give me 2500 miles just to be nice.
All this and the broken seat, etc. stories makes me wonder just what kind of operation they have there. Maybe the emphasis is all on running credit cards and moving planes and luggage, not people. Or perhaps, as in so many other companies, customer service is being reduced to the lowest common denominator.
I would file a complaint with the LBA (Luftfahrt-Bundesamt), the agency that enforces EC Reg 261/2004 in Germany. The flight was going to Munich, Germany, so EC 261/2004 applies. And I would argue that the broken seat was a downgrade within the meaning of Article 10 of the Regulation.
Maybe yes, maybe no – the German bureaucrats can be very literal-minded about what constitutes a downgrade. But it could serve as a wake-up call to AA to have to deal with the European bureaucrats on this one rather than the pansies we have in the U.S.
Probably need to read the fine print in the Contract of Carriage, but I’d be inclined to file a claim in small claims court. 5,000 miles is no where near what should have been offered.
See, https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/passenger-rights/air_en
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm
Updated 16 April 2024.
I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that since this is a US carrier going to Europe, the European regs don’t apply. They would apply to a US carrier flying from Europe to US.
My take on the broken seat is a CLT-MUC redeye with a broken seat is no better than premium economy. If I were told that I could buy an AA business class ticket with a broken seat, I would not pay more than premium economy. For MUC-CLT, I wouldn’t sleep so I would value it at premium economy but if I spent business class fares on the seat, I wouldn’t be that upset.
If AA claims they are only providing transportation, then they should have open seating, first come, first serve to business class.
This is pre-pandemic, when things were a bit different maybe? I was in first on an AA 777-300 to HKG, seat 2J. It wouldn’t recline. I got a full refund for that leg. Mind you, I was Key at the time so that may have made a difference.
My humble opinion: A completely broken seat in FC would should require something like an 85% – 100% refund from the airline in whatever “coinage” by which the seat was paid for.
When an airline delivers a broken or incomplete product without explicit customer agreement beyond that supposedly set up by a (non-negotiable) contract of adhesion, the airline should indeed be made to refund the customer for not delivering the advertised product. And that amount paid should be the full amount paid by the customer or whatever reimbursement the customer chooses to accept from the airline — with the option being at the discretion of the customer sold a faulty service.
Gary, if the passenger found out about it before takeoff, could they insist on being rebooked?
@retired lawyer
Don’t thin EC 261 applies to us airlines departing from US, even if destination is EU.
If departing from EZu, then it applies.
Why can’t you do a charge back on your credit card? I mean you didn’t get what you paid for “a lie flat business class seat.” (Functioning should be implied). If AA says but all we sold you was the carriage from A to B, then he should say, if you’re selling the carriage and not the seat, next time I’ll buy coach and sit in a Business Class seat – since you aren’t selling specific seats.
@DaveW: The EC website materials indicate you are probably correct, but the Regulation is ambiguous:
“ [Regulation applies…] “b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.”
Does the “if the operating carrier” clause modify the entire section, or just the preceding “unless” clause?
I’d still complain everywhere – DOT, LBA, small claims, etc. 5K AA miles is less than $75 (whether Gary is valuing them or someone else is), and is insulting.
Perhaps a REAL LAWYER with experience in airline regulations can weigh in here, especially on the topic of if filing small-claims suits against #BigAir is possible ?? (In Florida, small claims courts ban legal representation, forcing the airline to send one of their own actual employees to represent them in court).
Cannot sue in Small claims court as federal law preempts.
Charge backs against airlines hard to prove, anyone been successful for a broken seat- or even an involuntary downgrade?
I had a similar situation last summer — my Polaris seat was non-functional on my United flight from Athens to EWR. The compensation offered to me was woefully inadequate (a few hundred dollars in a voucher). After a few letters back and forth with them, I ended up suing in small claims court for 50% of my fare back (at the time the Contract of Carriage provided for a 50% refund if they didn’t fly you in the cabin purchased — that has since been changed). They settled with me for the exact amount I was asking for the day before the trial.
First class and business class tickets combine many things for the price. A special line at check in that is usually a lot faster. Sometimes lounge access. Earlier boarding than most passengers. Sometimes special services like a drink upon seating. Large, well padded seats. Extra recline or flat seats for sleeping. Extra spacing. Easy to get out to use the restroom. A generous luggage allowance. Less chance of the carry-on being checked. Flight attendants dedicated to First and/or Business passengers. Better meal selections with more expensive food and drink. Restrooms used by fewer people. Getting served food first. Amenity bags. Getting off of the airplane in the first group. Checked luggage comes out first. There are probably other things I am not listing. To consider a seat not reclining as the majority of the ticket price is ridiculous. If everything else is ok, maybe 10% or maybe 20% for a lie flat seat. Take the cost, multiply it by the percentage and convert the result to a mile or point per penny. Maybe find out if someone wants to swap with the miles or points as an incentive. Not everybody reclines their seat. Maybe someone would like what is essentially a rebate.
Chargeback difficult to win with airlines? I never tried. Helpful post
Another classic AA moment.
Voted worst by customers.
Voted worst by employees.
Voted worst by financial markets.
Ever since US Airways management took over it’s hard to find a single element where any stakeholder (besides management) has benefited.
The have destroyed billions of dollars of equity and equal amount of customer and employee goodwill.
I was ten year exp at AA but just moved on for their poor customer service for situations like this.
That said I had this same scenario once on BA metal, NYC to London, paid for a flat seat, got one that was broken. They gave me 30k miles, which I don’t feel was enough but I didn’t fight it.
Again, unlike Delta, AA just absolutely refuses to take the easiest path of simply avoiding unnecessary drama. When will they learn?
Delta did this to my wife’s seat and offered her 2000 in miles. She said no. They came back minutes later with… 2500 miles, but that was it. She said no. We wrote to corporate. They sent a free companion travel voucher. Cool. But a companion travel voucher? So they get some money no matter what?
@jns
I pay for J. I promise you that if an airline posted a fare that was “everythin J gets, except you sit in PE,” I would be thinking maybe 10% more than PE, not 10% less than J.
The bottom line is “no!” Whenever I fly to London, I always fly BA, and never the AA flights that come up. I do hope the new regulations will deal with this.
Can you imagine the “outrage” if this person was downgraded due to a seat that doesn’t recline? Normally the agents let the passenger know that the seat doesn’t lay flat and give them the option to move, if available, be downgraded to PE, if available, or a refund. There’s more to this story. The passenger accepted the broken seat, now wants a refund. Crook.
I recently had to force the hand of the insurance company behind the Chase Sapphire Preferred card. After stringing me along for about 10 months on a rental car claim, constantly asking for documents that I either did not possess or did not exist, I finally spoke politely with the insurance company supervisor.
I told him, (again politely, and this conversation took place on a Monday morning), that if I did not receive confirmation that I am being reimbursed by close of business Friday, I will be filing a complaint with my states “governors office of consumer affairs”, the FTC, the federal office of consumer protection & the BBB. In addition, I stated while I cannot force the insurance company to pay a legitimate claim, I will make sure the cost of complying with multiple investigations will make the cost of my insurance claim look like bus fare. That Thursday evening or Friday morning, I received an email stating my insurance claim was being paid ASAP. Perhaps the subject of this article may want to attempt something similar.
60% of aa seats are in an awful condition. How this airline operates is beyond me.
For a damaged seat they should give u 80% cash refund.
Take them to court
No. It’s not enough. AA has become a joke when it comes to compensation for their mistakes, even for EXP’s. Ridiculous, and a FAST way to tick off LOYAL customers. Keep counting those beans AA.
@Teresa Henning The chargeback may work but AA will close your AAdvantage account and cancel all future bookings if you do that. So be prepared.
Would the same passengers complaining about being charge for a product they didn’t receive also be willing to pay more when their product has been enhanced by the airline? I’m thinking about the skylight added on a Southwest flight, the picture window added on an Alaskan flight, the ringside seating on various Spirit flights or even the David Dao drag show on United.
Confirming what Dal7910 said. I had an insurance claim with Allianz for an illness-related cancellation. They repeatedly asked for docs that I already sent them. I got tired of resending them. After about 9 months, I saw one of their ads on FB and added a comment to it that described how their claims process doesn’t work. Within 24 hours, they contacted me and said that my claim was approved. Got a check a week or so later. After 40 years of flying, this was the first time I complained about anything, and there have been some doozies that I overlooked, but in this case, I figured that they are selling insurance but not paying valid claims, so others should be warned before spending their money.
Here are your options . The seat is broken . Either you downgrade to premium economy and fare difference applies for that leg , or you are rebooked on the next flight . Right or wrong , you are not getting a full refund . End. You are being transported , received two 70 pounds luggage allowance , even if you did not use them . You had access to a lounge, etc
For the comment that 5000 miles for running out of dessert option , you are laughable.
Did I read that right?
Flight crew was making modifications to the seat that resulted in an unsafe condition during landing, along with noting that there was an electrical issue at the same seat?
Flight crew are not FAA certified airframe technicians. Passenger should have demanded the aircraft be grounded until this unsafe condition was resolved by certified mechanics.
*THAT* would get the airlines attention when their schedules get effed up due to inoperable assets.
My wife recently moved to Dallas for her work and we tried AA several times since it’s their hub. They are AWFUL. We lived for 20 years in Atlanta and Delta was in a different league. AA has lost our baggage and not paid up. They cancel flights at the last minute with no warning and no personnel at the gate to help you out. Delta had folks in red jackets helping out everywhere in Atlanta. I’m not saying Delta is perfect, but there is no comparison to the level of treatment they gave us in Atlanta compared to the horrible way AA operates in Dallas. We’re back to flying Delta in Dallas – even though we have to connect to most locations – it’s worth the hassle to avoid the nightmare that is American Airlines…
We flew business class nonstop from New York to Singapore in December 2023. It was a fully booked business class and one of our seats was defective. The audiovisual system didn’t work. The lights didn’t work and the seat intermittently reclined. Singapore airlines gave us a $600 voucher in Singapore dollars even though we paid in USA dollars that were good products that they sold on their website that were useless. They refused to give us credit for our flight or refund us for the pain and suffering. That’s what I call CustomerService.