A Frontier Airlines passenger took to the internet to blast her seat opponent. She’s flying the airline’s Airbus A320 from a middle seat. The man at the aisle is spreading his legs into her space. That’s incredibly rude. She has so little space to begin with, and he has access to the aisle!
The woman posted a photo and explained, “Look where the center point of my seat is, and then look where my legs and his legs are respectively.” She asked him not to do this and “he minimally tried to be better after that” but she was still “so uncomfortable the whole time.”
[M]en of the world, I plead with you to be more aware of your manspreading on airplanes. I understand small seats aren’t built for you, but this level of manspreading and disregard of my personal space was something I’ve never experienced before.
Before I scooted my legs over, the full length of this dude’s thigh was so forcefully pressed against mine that there was no way he didn’t know it was happening. Forget wanting more leg space, I would have settled for not having to touch a stranger to the point that I can feel their body heat.
She says that “This problem isn’t confined to frontier……” and that may be true, but it’s certainly worse on Frontier and Spirit!
Frontier Airlines offers as little as 27.8 inches of “seat pitch” or the distance from seat back to seat back. That compares to a standard 30 inches on American, Delta and United and as much as 32 inches on JetBlue and Southwest (both JetBlue and Southwest are expected to reduce the legroom they offer in standard coach as they add premium seats onto their planes). Those extra inches matter!
As I look at the photo, the male passenger appears to have long legs, or at least ‘long for a Frontier Airlines seat.’ I’m not sure how easy it is to keep them straight and forward, and therefore confined to his own seating area.
I think it’s fair to say that someone with that body type should be required to buy extra legroom (on Frontier these used to be called ‘Stretch’ seats but are now ‘Premium’). While airlines often don’t enforce the rule, many require passengers ‘of size’ to buy two seats rather than one if they’re too wide for a seat. Shouldn’t the same principle apply here?
- Someone may not wish to spend more money to travel, even if they need it
- That doesn’t give them the right to encroach upon the same, limited space another passenger paid for
You may not like that, but it seems like expecting a woman to confront a tall man, when she’s pinned between him and another passenger (if she’s in the middle, or the wall of an aircraft if she’s at the window) seems a bit rich.
Perhaps the most egregious case of manspreading is a passenger who encroached on an aisle seat from across the aisle:
@claireandpeter GOODBYE
Each passenger is entitled only to the space within the confines of their own seat, except that the window seat passenger can lean into the window, the middle seat passenger gets both armrests, and the aisle seat passenger can lean into the aisle at their own risk.
Here’s how to handle a seat-spreading situation.
- Try to start a polite conversation about it.
- Should that not help, look around to see if there’s an empty seat in the cabin. If there is, ask a crewmember if you can change seats.
- And if there’s not, enlist a crewmember to help ensure your seat opponent stays within the confines of their own space.
At the end of the day though it means a certain amount of discomfort for a limited (though seemingly interminable) period of time and other people can be awful. Passengers shouldn’t have to endure this, but there’s a limit to how much escalation is possible or wise while stuck inside a metal tube. What would you do?
My suggest don’t fly Frontier or Spirit. You don’t get what you didn’t pay for.
Solution: protective armor. Wear goth or biker jeans with those decorative shiny steel spikes that run up the outside seam of the leg. If steel spikes are too active-aggressive for you then try passive-aggressive: substitute sharp rhinestones for the spikes. The spreaders will quickly learn to stay in their own lane.
I hope they’re not still taking deliveries of planes with those seats. I’ve flown it on Spirit several times, and as someone that LIKES Spirit, I’ll tell you those seats are hell. I’m tall but not especially so (6’2″) and I’ve had to try putting my knees into that seat in front. It’s unpleasant on most planes, but those steel frames will DESTROY your knees on a flight; it’s the constant vibrations that really ruin it. The savings from not paying for light, permanent padding (like every other carrier has) is probably not justified because of the loss of business from folks like me that actively avoid these planes.
A related problem is the (increasingly common) passenger who puts something large under the seat in front of him that extends into their legroom and requires them to put their feet on either side of it – encroaching into the space of the person besides them.
Easily agree that if you are fat and/or tall you should not be able to try and fit yourself into a standard seat and necessarily encroach on your neighbor’s space.
No.
Being fat is a choice.
Being tall is not.
Sorry, but calling on ‘men of the world’ to rectify this behavior is sexist. Don’t assume that this man is behaving this way because he is male.
As a 6’6″, 255lb man with wide shoulders, i absolutely MUST buy FC, or at least Scum Class Supreme seats in order for me and my potential seat neighbor to survive the trip. I roll it into the cost of the trip from the beginning, and it never fails to work.
Being fat is a choice.
Tall is not.
If you can’t afford BC, go extra legroom.
You seem to be blaming the passengers rather than the greedy airlines. Why should the norm be a short, thin passenger? You can perhaps make a case for the unusually obese traveler – but tall people now being obliged to pay extra for a seat they can actually sit in? Whose side are you on?
Your thighs remain out of your neighbor’s personal space when you cross your legs at the ankles.
Having nuts the size of avocados is not a choice either.
Women should be at home in the kitchen not flying. Problem solved.
He has no right to encroach. It’s her space. It doesn’t seem as if he’d fit if he doesn’t do that. There is no solution that involves staying in that seat.
If airlines want to have such close seats, they need to have maximum height and width requirements for passengers, and require upgrades for those who won’t fit.
Let them deal with the fallout.
While some say being fat is a choice but being tall is not. That is neither here nor there. If he needs more space then he should buy more space. Don’t be an ass and encroach uncomfortably on a neighbor.
Nobody ever said flying was comfortable or safe in a healthy way.
I choose to fly airlines that have a bit more room in coach and I pay what is required for that. I also pay for an assigned seat that is not a middle seat, either as a separate charge or bundled in with the total cost of the seat. I have bought an extra seat for comfort a few times. This customer had choices and got the result of her decisions on cost and location.
It’s the airlines that create these ridiculously small seats that many people can’t fit into comfortably. I understand that not everyone can afford to upgrade to a business class or premium economy seat but it is not expensive to pay for your seat choice. Pay the few dollars and avoid getting stuck in the middle. It’s usually only cheap people that get stuck in these seats and then complain after. I personally won’t fly on an airline that won’t allow me to reserve my seat ahead.
“As I look at the photo, the male passenger appears to have long legs, or at least ‘long for a Frontier Airlines seat.’ I’m not sure how easy it is to keep them straight and forward, and therefore confined to his own seating area.”
He’s got short, sausage thighs. Long legs has nothing to do with it.
@CC “You seem to be blaming the passengers rather than the greedy airlines.” Why are the airlines greedy? Here, they offer a lousy product at a low fare and people opt for it. This is like blaming a restaurant for offering a 3 chicken nugget meal at a lower price than 5 nuggets. But, 3 nuggets isn’t enough, you say. Buy 5, I respond. If you don’t want under 28 ” pitch, pay more and fly another airline or the better seats on this one. You give consumers a choice. They opt for the low-priced option and complain it islower quality. Jeesh, the arrogance.
BTW, I want to offer an apology that it gives me pleasure to see tall men with no legroom on a plane. We live in a world where the tall are paid more and are considered more attractive by potential partners. And, many think it OK to push those long legs into the back of my seat. I sit in F or J now, so the latter issue doesn’t occur.
@david
You should probably get that checked out, son.
There are 2 sides to this story.
1. The guy is a complete ass for thinking that it is ok for encroaching into her space. He knows how large he is when buying the seat.
2. The lady knows how small seats are and should look at booking an exit row that has a solid divider between the seats, then this does not happen.
The man is obviously not sitting up straight in the seat. Fortunately for the passenger next to and behind him the seat doesn’t recline as much as they used to other wise he would be completely sprawled out. I’m so tried of those who do not have the minimum amount of consideration for others subjected to the airlines revenue increasing and cost reducing practices.
Seriously? This is an article? The only thing more ridiculous is the reader comments.
Manspacing is a sexist term, just another attack on men in a society which now celebrates and encourages the devaluation and villification of men. I recently was relentlessly attacked by a woman with an anti-manspacing agenda on a four-hour flight from NYC to Denver. She swung her knees into the side of my leg 3-4 times initially. When I asked her what she was doing, she said she was protecting her leg space to stop the manspeading. I looked down to see my legs were entirely in my own space. I stood my ground, telling her that I was not encroaching on her space. I was in the middle seat and she was at the window to my left. The rest of the trip, she dedicated herself to attempting to push me off of the armrest. She deliberately bumped into my arm repeatedly, and pushed and elbowed me constantly while trying to achieve her goal. She ignored all of the space to her left while on her quest to confine me to her satisfaction. Sitting next to her was like playing hockey, except that hockey games end after two hours. I continued to stand my ground, nothing more and nothing less. A man standing his ground has become a rarity. It seems almost taboo today. The incident ended as one would expect, with the female antagonist making a complaint against me to an airline customer service rep. Manspreading is a sexist term used to further demean men and to justify inconsiderate and selfish acts against them in public. There is no freedom until we are all free.
If the man sitting next to me is ridiculously hot, he can spread his legs all he wants as long as I can rest my head on shoulder.
The problem is that airlines charge double the price for only 10% more leg room. How messed up is that? In fact, I would make the claim that premium seats are subsidizing coach seats. I would be ecstatic if seats were charged per inch of pitch. Give me 38″ please!!
Well on my last flight I had the pleasure of cuddling with very large women of which I was a total stranger to. She had to angle herself in the seat to fit. Her body was touching mine from shoulder to knee the whole flight while she had her body turned toward me. Very uncomfortable to be that close to a stranger and feel their body heat. Her husband sat in another aisle and ate an obnoxiously stinky sandwich. Thought someone barfed or shat themselves until I saw the sandwich. This all while the man behind me kept hitting the back of my seat until I slammed my back into the seat really hard. I don’t usually have these experiences so it was an unusual flight.
Good grief! It’s not the men’s fault. It would be very uncomfortable to sit with their knees tight together like women! Give them some grace! The airlines are the ones to fault and should be barraged by emails complaining about their ridiculous seats! Greed !!
“Seriously? This is an article? The only thing more ridiculous is the reader comments.” And the award for the dumbest reader comment goes to this.
@ John Holmes what an idiotic comment. Some people need to fly for a funeral. You don’t know what they are going thru. Clearly you’re an evil person to comment this.
Frontier is the worst if they could they would charge oxygen. Not to mention the flight attendants are very rude.
This is my take. The air lines ought to post on their website.
If you CANT SIT ON A BAR STOOL, WITHOUT BODY LAP OVER. THEN PAY FOR 2 SEATS.
I had a 5 hrs flight with a 6ft 2 in.
Gentleman. And he respectfully.
Elbow on the front of seat arm divider.
I was perfectly happy as I took the back portion. Being smaller it was a fit. The airlines need to go to 34 inches and lose the back row seats. By the time anybody trys and put a bag under a seat, their legs are not gonna fit. I would have told him that’s my leg space and he needs to adjust. Or request stewardess to allow a seat move.
As a lot of flights are currently flying at about 95 percent capacity. But it really needs to be started online. All this baggage charging, then they need to rule on extra ass !
Gary Leff, you should clean up the comments list and especially remove John Holmes.
Travelling is a necessity for everyone and there are many reasons to do that including work, graduations, funerals and such. Everyone needs one’s own personal space: first offered by the airlines by arranging for appropriate seat pitches and widths; then maintained by the passengers who’ll use no more than the allotted seat space while seated.
Men who think travelling is for men only and women on planes is a problem to be solved, say that to your relatives when you need all your loved ones by your side in your final days.
I also suggest two stowable armrests between seats, stowable side thigh guards below those armrests with a padded edge design made to be restrictive and even uncomfortable when purposefully spreading too much and full rectangular backrests to hold the shoulder widths with a comfortable curvature at the sides to discourage slouching shoulders and heads over that onto the seat backs not paid for.
As for buying two seats because of bigger body height and or size, the airlines need to supply a reasonable number of wider seats to be sold at same single-seat prices because even the oldest airline seats had single-seating contours which likely were not comfortable when bought as a pair and the seatbelts used across two seats may have been less safe to restrain people during accidents due to their wider span shape across single laps. That’s where two instead of three seats can fill a row side. I’d say wider seats should be at aisle so the bigger person has one’s generous space while the smaller person has the added space at the window.
Also, no one should spread into the aisle. That is there for people and carts to move and someone can be hurt by normal passage with people resting out there. It’s really unfair to people moving about and tripping over feet or being blamed for bumping seated people.
The more they spread, the less they have to need it.
OK this problem has been solved but another popped up,the lady in the middle seat has so much perfume on that I feel like gagging I politly asked about it but she smiled and said it’s to offset flatchulent people who may be seated nearby..
“[M]en of the world, I plead with you to be more aware…”
What BS! The middle row whale on a recent Narita-Newark run (12+ hours) was decidedly female, and splayed those logs she called legs way past her paid space. She got equally aggressive shoves back until she stowed the timber, but pissed I had to deal with it. Not a Male/Female thing, it’s a responsible/irresponsible thing.
Does not matter that tall people don’t choose to be tall. That is not an excuse. There are options other than manspreading into somebody else’s space but they cost more. So pay more for the seat you need to accomodate your body comfortably, just like you pay more for the Big and Tall sizes and your super California king bed.
Dave W.
Get gutzy, put your leg over the top of his. If he dares to say anything say oh excuse me, I need to spread out being in the middle seat. Ahhh that’s so much better.
I no longer go to the opera in Chicago because their seats literally cause pain, and I buy expensive seats
Well, that’s absolutely abhorrent behavior! But I really would like women to stop using the MANSPLAINING comment or we’re going to start doing the same thing.
How about show a little respect and stop being sexist. You want equality- it works both ways!
He should buy a more accommodating seat. On Frontier, the charges are not much.
Also, to avoid this, I always select an isle seat. I’m not cramped in. The best seats are the ones over the wings. Space. Air. Freedom! It’s worth it to select your seats early.
That guy knew WTF he was doing…and likely thought “thank God she’s small so I can get comfortable” or he thought u were cute and wanted to touch….I ran into a similar situation on frontier where dude first put up the arm rest for more space, (so I put it back down) I let him have that rest, and he kept trying to push beyond and hang over, so I elbowed back and shoved with my arm and he got the point. He also tried the leg spreading, but I kicked and stomped the hell out of him any time he tried to cross the line. I’m not a super small woman, if anything maybe a little taller than avg and could fit in my seat. You paid for that seat and deserve at very minimum it’s small confines…I would have complained while in flight if I couldn’t resolve the it myself.
I have experienced this being in the middle seat as well. It was very uncomfortable as the man was laying his leg on mine. I would just try and move a little, but there was really nowhere to go.
Enough ladies with your self found sexist terminology. Men will never truly understand what it means to be a woman. Men will never feel childbirth menstrual cycles. But on that same note all you ladies will never truly know what it means to be a man either. I don’t speak about females in any derogatory sense. Not just females but males as well, need to stop labeling things. Everyone else on this planet does not need to address you in a certain way. Whether it’s your feelings or your pronouns. Anyone can feel and identify as what they so choose. But forcing your beliefs on someone is no different than being racist, prejudice or a bigot. Opinions are a penny for your thoughts. Not a requirement of people around you. If you can’t come to terms with the person your having a issue with then excuse yourself from that person’s presence or area. Staying to complain and explaining yourself until your Blu in the face may have made your feel good for the moment. But at the end of the day there will be someone else tomorrow. Enjoy your life and move on