A first class passenger on Alaska flight 142 from Juneau to Seattle on Thursday shared their experience at the start of the flight. They asked for coffee once they had boarded and were safely ensconced in their seat. What the flight attendant told them was shocking.
Passenger gets on the plane and asks the flight attendant if she could get a coffee, she is in seat 3a. The FA responds, maybe, it depends on how nice I’m feeling, I don’t get paid until the door closes and we don’t work for free… I mean, a “no, I’m sorry, we don’t offer beverages until we are in the air” would work, but …. it, let’s be rude and introduce our drama to a random person…”
The customer is right here. While Alaska Airlines in particular isn’t known for offering predeparture beverages (other than water) in first class, the issue isn’t the drink it’s bringing contract issues into the cabin with customers.
- Not doing predeparture beverages in first class is a huge missed opportunity. American Airlines, which has its own predeparture beverage challenges, found that they are a key driver of premium customer satisfaction.And when customers are sitting in first class, having boarded first, with a drink in their hands happy that is marketing to every customer walking by them who might someday buy that premium product too.
- If a decision has been mad not to have it as a service element – at the end of the pandemic, American surveyed whether they really needed to bring this back – then politely saying though would suffice.
- But galley gossip within earshot of customers is bad enough – complaining about matters between them and the company is far worse.
The contract that Alaska Airlines voted down offered 32% raises over 3 years, retro pay, and boarding pay.
But the idea that flight attendants ‘aren’t being paid until doors close’ is perhaps one of the biggest misunderstandings cabin crew have.
- Hourly rates paid for flight time are meant to include time spent boarding and deplaning.
- Unions generally had not pushed for boarding pay, because they preferred higher hourly rates instead. That’s because senior union members tend to take fewer, longer flights and benefit more than higher wages. It’s a way of redistributing pay from junior employees to employees with greater seniority.
- Then non-union Delta introduced boarding pay as a true add-on. It was on top of existing pay. And unions had to start negotiating for it. Delta had embarrassed them.
- But in contracts like the new one at American, some senior flight attendants have been unhappy – they know this isn’t free money, and boarding pay means lower pay rates than they would have been able to negotiate otherwise. It is money out of senior crew pockets back into the hands of junior crew (who are the ones paid very little, that have been the face of union bargaining campaigns).
Alaska Airlines usually provides good service, though it frequently isn’t as good as it used to be. Maybe it’s having absorbed Virgin America? They’re going to be digesting Hawaiian now, which surprisingly doesn’t have as good a service offering as you’d expect.
They’ll integrate seniority lists, which can be rocky, though they promise to maintain separate brands which at least allows some continuity in existing service standards if they so choose. (This will be interesting, when legacy Alaska crew work Hawaiian flights and vice versa, so some standardization is going to be needed.)
Labor and consumer protections just died on November 5, 2024, so good luck everybody. You’ll soon need to pay a bribe (excuse me, the Supreme Court prefers we use the term ‘gratuity’) for any services whatsoever. Oh, you want a coffee? $5. The good news, for those feeling extra generous, you can get more than a coffee, if you know what I mean. *wink wink*
Fair boarding pay seems immensely simple to this non airline employee. If it is true that it is built in to flight hour pay, then simply any deviation exceeding scheduled time becomes extra time worthy of a pay adjustment. As simple as feeding a parking meter if you want extra time!
Employees would then know they are always “on the clock” and receiving pay for overtime, as required! Smiles all around.
The FA should be disciplined if not fired. They joined the union, the union negotiated the contract. Nothing has changed in the level of service in providing a pre departure beverage. Sorry this FA thinks they are not being paid fairly just because the clock doesn’t start while they are on the ground but ignores the fact it’s all built into the comp package.
Should they delay doing safety checks until the door closes? After all that is their primary responsibility, right?
Should pilots not do walk arounds?
They voted for the union heads
They read the contact
They voted for the contact to be approved
They have the right to say no and get a job at Wal-Mart or burger King.
If you do not like it then QUIT but in the mean time STOP %^$#%%$ about what you agreed to.
The worse voice is the voice that did not vote.
Im now wondering about the pilots. Are they gonna go along with this “attitude”. I mean, who is gonna do the checklists, do the walkaround, or start the engines.
So if the FAs arent “working” since they arent on the clock, nothing is stopping me from going to the galley and getting my own mimosa?!
If you aren’t working, then you must not be on duty. If you are not on duty, then don’t wear the uniform and get out of the way.
Right now, the only way we have to know you are not working is if you are anywhere near the galley. And that applies only if we can even see you at all.
Why don’t you worthless excuses for employees just go find a job that you like and treats you in the manner to which you dream about?
Just so you know, the customers are fed up.
@1990 clearly the most obnoxious post of the day that I have read.
I was in customer facing businesses for over 40 years and believe me hired thousands of employees. This one would be gone in a nanosecond by me if there was a video of what she said but you know dang well the unions will back her up
First, I need help here (lots, but on this topic). I cannot stand coffee (taste and smell is worse). So, is it expected there is a pot of brewed coffee available on boarding? Would this request require the FA to brew a pot for just one customer? Unless it not obvious, I wonder if a request for cofffee is a way bigger ask than, say, a soda.
What a whiner. Complaining about not getting a crappy cup of airplane coffee expedited?? What a joke.
I was shocked when I first heard about FAs not getting paid until the doors are shut. They do so much work outside of that time plus they don’t get paid that much when the doors are shut. Now I hear some airlines are taking away their companion passes. Definitely not worth the stress. Be kind to your Flight Attendants.
I would never ask for a hot coffee pre-departure. Maybe she could have been more subtle but she’s more right than he is. C’mon guys, it’s just a wider seat!
Hilarious
No she’s not. She’s a disgusting (over-entitled) human being. Pilots drink our coffee during pre-departure all the time. The flying pay rate covers boarding pay!
So crew instructions don’t have to be followed until the door closes?
Service on Virgin America was consistently fun, if a little less polished – wouldn’t chock up Alaska’s rocky service recently to that
Flew on American Airlines first class recently from Dallas to Cabo. Service was horrible!! Flight attendants acted like they were doing us a favor just being there!!! Zero customer service. I think it’s gotten to a point, where their comfortable challenging management, and therefore no longer fear any reprecussions for poor service. I think one day it will come to a point where they become such a problem, that airlines do away with the position all together.
Meh, I have heard and been at the receiving end of worse abuse from American Airlines FAs and ground staff. I kid you not, when I went to get a revooking at CLT the staff said to me “Now don’t you dare start!” and I had not even opened my mouth yet. This after our flight was delayed for 6 hours and we had to board the plane and deplane 3 times. My friend flew in to PHL and apparently the FA was so bonkers rude to a passenger that someone started recording the incident but the FAs banded together to demand the video ve deleted or else they were going to tell the pilot to divert the plane and arrest the passenger. I vowed never ever to fly American again, have been happily flying Delta thank you very much. At least I can avoid the literal zoo of clowns that is CLT.
I retired 13 yrs ago. I think of all the times over the years I worked for free. And, withstood nasty passenger comments. Passengers don’t deserve a predeparture beverage. The entitlement!!
The idea or excuse that flight attendants receive a higher pay rate to cover the the time we are required to work without pay is not only laughable but shameful! It is common place for a flight attendant to work a 12 to 14 day and only be paid for 3 or 4 flight hours. So let’s do the math.. 3.45 flight hours X $30.00 hour = $103.50 ÷12 hours = $8.63 per hour. If ÷ by 14 hours = $ 7.39 per hour. Can you survive on $7.39 per hour? How is it not shameful?! $30 per flight hour is a reasonable average guesstimate based on flight hour pay across all U.S. based domestic airlines. Please allow me to drive home the fact that flight attendants regularly work 50 + hour weeks but are only paid on average for 75 to 80 hours per MONTH. The higher rate of pay for flight hours is actually meant to be similar to First Resonder pay. That’s what our primary actual job is – first responders & safety. We just want to be paid for ALL the work we do. None of us think we should get the flight hour pay rate for ALL hours on duty BUT, we do think it is only JUST that we are paid for all hours we are required to be on duty. A reasonable suggestion would be flight hour pay + 1/2 pay for boarding & deplaning + minimum wage for all other hours where we are required to be at the airport. So yes, shame on airline CEOs & management, shame on congress for legally allowing them to skirt labor laws & shame on passengers that after being educated knowingly become part of the problem by supporting the multimillionaire airline executive management in forcing us to work without compensation.
People in the comments and the writer of this article have no idea what they are talking about.
Alaska has repeatedly told their FAs they need to do pre departure drinks. So saying they don’t offer them in this article is incorrect.
As for the people in the comments, you all are idiots saying they joined they union and agreed to the terms of the contract. Alaska FAs have been in negotiations for a new contract for like 5 years now. Their old contract is essentially over and has been for years. The company has been slacking on getting a new one in place.
Wow while lot of hate and racism here
Alaska does not do pre departure drinks, coffee or otherwise.
FA should have said once up I air I’ll be happy to oblige
Alaskas inflight service has fallen off a cliff since covid. PDBs are a distant memory at this point. I have flown 32 AS segments this year and received an option of sparkling wine 3 times out of all those flights. The rest of the time it’s either Water or OJ, water, or nothing at all. Of those 3 times, only one time were we offered any drink we wanted. It’s not so much the PDB that is a big deal, but it usually sets the tone for the rest of the flight. The FAs who refuse to perform PDB also generally disappear to they galley and close to curtain to play on their phones until landing.
@Matt – “Who wants to guess what race the FA is who made the mocking comment? Anybody?”
No, I don’t want to guess, but would like to know. Sounds like you may have the scoop on this one. If so, tell us.
this is exactly what will happen at AS and UA for continuing to drag out a settlement with the FAs – the primary customer contact group – even as both airlines want to be known for providing above average customer service.
AS and UA’s profits right now are being fueled by not paying all of its labor groups industry leading labor rates and those companies’ management knows exactly that their profits relative to DL which still leads in the industry in profits will fall, even as DL has invested in its people.
Add in the complexity of merging HA into AS and there will be toes that get stepped on.
Mergers are messy.
and, no, the red team is not going to step on well-established labor – mgmt procedures for the airline industry
How dare the paying customer inconvenience the princess/prince of the galley?!
It’s not like the customer is paying for their salary,.eh?
Wait……
Unlike years ago the people sitting up front now have generally either paid to be there or have spent enough money to be a high spender within a top tier. In other words, they are owed a damn drink before take off. If you don’t like your contract work to either change it or go do something else in life. I hear Wal Mart is always hiring.
I’m not a passenger in North Korea. I’m free to choose another airline. Born free.
Alaska Airlines do not get paid hourly, that is correct they will not get paid until the door is closed.
Yes, the FA should have politely said it differently no excuse for that. When speaking on a topic you have no idea about (The person who wrote the article) it would be nice to have your facts right.
Thank you for explaining the seniority issue. People should be paid for the time they are working though. Senior attendants hould not be allowed to squeeze this money out of Junior attendants
Alaska FC offers preflight beverages on many flights; often water, coffee, mimosa, sparkling wine etc.
FA is wrong and misleading. They do get paid before the door closes thanks to Duty RIG, and Trip RIG in addition to other guarantees and probably some form of brief/debrief. So she is lying.
This article, like almost all “news” written to stir up controversy and debate and drive clicks these days, is most likely fake. But hey, it worked!
Is there no moderator for these comments?? @Mark, putting aside the fact your comment is both ridiculous and obviously racist, in my experience with 1 million hours of actual flight time, I can absolutely state that the worst, most disinterested, most cantankerous and least engaged Flight Attendants are white women of a (cough cough) certain age with a lousy blondish dye job who are just putting in their remaining time to retirement. God forbid you ask them for anything that is outside of their bare minimum routine. Invariably they are always assigned the front cabin because of seniority whereas the more charming attendants – of all races – toil in the back.
This is my kind of FA! She deserves a raise! Every single FA in my domain should aspire to be like her!
Thank you J Browers (11/15 @9:30p) who mathed the math for us. I don’t understand how or why FAs & their unions agreed to this weird no pay til doors close thing. If I’m required to be in uniform, at the door, bet Im on the clock!
ADMINS: Comment by Mark (11/15 @11:52p) has no place in this discussion. The comment begins “ It’s always a pleasure interacting with black FAs like this” and is not meant to be complimentary, but a snarky preface to a racist rant. Please delete and consider blocking any further comment from this person.
Every aspect of flying on an American airline features the element of entitlement. From TSA staff to gate agents to passengers to FAs to baggage handlers. Everyone believes they’re owed something. It rarely makes for a pleasurable experience. It takes less energy to be pleasant than it does to be a bag of water and vinegar. If being professional in a customer service role is dependent on salary or seniority, find a new line of work. If being pleasant to people working to serve you is a task, stay home. If you feel you can’t enjoy your job keeping people safe without bullying them, step aside (at the very least). If you’re overwhelmed by the idea of treating someone’s luggage as you would want yours treated, you might consider telemarketing or something. I fly a lot. 99 out of 100 times the Sky caps are the best part of the trip.
My good, you people are mostly horrible.
When you have a job wearing a uniform, other than the military, to go to work in the uniform, and start work when your shift start, in this case when the doors close. The FA starts work when she gets paid to, not when you want.
It is refreshing to have her be honest that she’s “not on the clock yet” instead of some platitude as the author proposed.
So stop being Karen’s. (You know, unless you really are Karen.)
Story needs an editor.
“I don’t work for free”
Guess what, I don’t fly for free.
I fly United and occasionally get upgraded to 1st class and am always OFFERED a pre-flight beverage in 1st class. I can get coffee, mimosa, soda, whatever.
Your beef is with the airline, not the customer. Very unprofessional. The FA should be fired.
Hi! I work for Alaska as a flight attendant and there is an abundant amount of misinformation in this article.
We voted down the “32% raise” because it was not the instant raise that people think it is. It did not come without external costs. Our work rules were changed and serious issues were not addressed/fixed in the new contract.
I agree the comment the flight attendant made was not kind but as usual, I feel there is more to this story. Passengers ask about our contract all the time and I imagine there was some antagonism from the passenger.
We have employees living out of cars that cannot make ends meet. Please be kind to your flight crew and talk to an actual flight attendant about their work rules instead of getting information from this incorrect article.
The main person in a union, like the one I was in, is the business manager. The rank and file elect the business manager and the business manager knows who elected him or her (even though it is a secret ballot). Any business manager who wants to retain that job (a very well paying one in large unions) caters to those who elected him or her. The wages for starting flight attendants are low because the power to elect the business manager isn’t in the hands of those with minimal years in the union. The structure set up by flight attendants unions makes sure that those making the median wage are doing quite well as are those slightly below that level. All of the union members that have a significant number of years in can see the job getting easier and the rewards becoming a lot greater as they advance in years in the union. Why would any of them vote for something against their best interests.
I get it… but how hard is “Apologies…but they don’t pay us until the doors closed but as soon as they get in gear I will happily get you some.”
Would you expect your doctor to give you an exam ahead of your scheduled office visit? How many of you would be willing to perform your job services during your non-work period? Why expect someone else to do what you wouldn’t? And to state that this would be good PR for the company is a crock. Flight staff are employees, they get paid for a specific job during a specific time. The fact that the OP wasn’t aware that flight staff isn’t paid until the doors closed is the OP’s problem.
It’s only going to get worse over the next 4 years. Amerikkka is going to seriously decline and most people have no idea how bad it’s going to get. We’re talking Cold War Russia bad.
In over 40 years of flying, I’ve only flown American twice. Once over 30 years ago, and once again about 20 years ago. Both times were unpleasant experiences.
But to be honest, I don’t really blame the employees.
The kind of unhappiness I experienced is probably a result of poor management than employees.
First off, all airline staff need to be paid and fairly / equally one they enter any kind of working environment related to their jobs or even because of their jobs, such as the case of going though security checks to proceed to the beginning position of the job, because that has become part of it.
Second, I don’t understand any seating class having beverages served once seated. Let staff ready their emotions and the airplane to be sure everything is complete. Once there’s freedom to do other less important things, beverages can be served along with snacks, meals – and headsets if those are not placed on seats prior to boarding.
The FA’s response was unprofessional but in today’s flying atmosphere with increased passenger abuse, verbal and physical, it is understandable. As a former career flight attendant for an international airline, I have to say that the job has definitely lost it glamours and appeal. Grossly overpaid airline upper management seem to care little about the employees that make the airline operate from ground to air m, which does not foster positive work environments. I went through several contract negotiations and our strong union (AFA) always managed to reach mutually beneficial agreements.
BTW, serving FC predeparture was based on time constraints and passenger safety. Asking for hot coffee when a full load of passengers is about to board is inconsiderate. Should have asked for it in the exclusive lounges airlines provide for wealthy or frequent flyers pre-departure or post-arrival. Just sayin’
I am a 35-year, recently retired, Delta flight attendant. The pre-departure drink offering in First Class on domestic flights was a requirement, and we had to provide documentation if it wasn’t done. My husband and I now fly AA exclusively as DL doesn’t serve our town, and the pre-departure drink is rarely offered, even if there is plenty of time. My opinion is that you signed up for the job knowing the pay and limitations. Delta is simply above and beyond the other legacy carriers in terms of service. BTW, there is always coffee brewed at the beginning of the flight, because the pilots live on that and Diet Coke.
This author is just wanting some clicks.
Flying is not a democracy.
Sit down and shut up.
I fly Alaska as often as possible and the flight attendants are always wonderful! I’m never in first class but I see how demanding some of the first class passengers are! The flight attendant is always serving them water, coffee,etc from the moment they sit down!! …and still they complain!!