United Airlines is requiring employees to be vaccinated. Frontier is, sort of – employees can opt out and submit to regular Covid tests.
Delta, on the other hand, will only require new employees to be vaccinated. Perhaps they don’t want to push their largely non-union workforce into unionization. If a quarter of flight attendants, for instance, didn’t want to get vaccinated they could be a big enough block that swings towards unionization (not that Sara Nelson’s union is preventing mandatory vaccination at United).
American and Southwest say they aren’t going to require vaccination. Although earlier in the year American’s CEO Doug Parker said they could be forced to make vaccination mandatory for competitive reasons: “if other airlines wanted to market themselves as the one where everybody’s vaccinated, those are things we’d have to respond to.”
That leads to the question, will customers actually choose an airline based on vaccinated employees?
A majority of employees are going to be vaccinated anyway. But does the assurance make you feel confident as a traveler? I want to see front line personnel vaccinated, but I’m not sure how much it actually matters to my risk as a traveler.
- Other passengers at the gate and on my flight far outnumber employees
- No U.S. airline is requiring vaccination of passengers
- If the person in the middle seat next to me isn’t vaccinated, but the pilot is, does that help me much?
And foreign employees based in locations where, for instance, Sinovac’s Coronavac vaccine is in heavy use will probably get to have that ‘count’.
Just a couple of weeks ago airline CEOs were talking up the end of the mask mandate on September 13th, but at this point it seems unlikely the mandate will be allowed to expire. Do masks make you comfortable flying, such that you worry less about vaccination of employees?
My guess is that people choose to fly based on schedule and price and on operational reliability, and that it’ll be a limited number of people at the margin who choose based on a vaccine mandate. Even product seems as much of a determining factor.
I’d prefer a non-stop flight that operates on time over a connecting flight where vaccination is required. A connecting flight means more time in the airport with other passengers, perhaps with other airline employees, in an environment with HEPA air filtration or the same downward air flow that makes the aircraft cabin relatively protective.
Although it would be nice to know that everyone I’m around on an indoor environment has some protection via vaccination or prior infection.
Yes. I only want to be interacting with vaccinated people.
I couldn’t care less. I’m vaccinated, you do what you want.
I would feel more comfortable travelling if the business employees (airlines, airports, car rental, hotels, restaurants) were required to be vaccinated, and all of their guests were required to be vaccinated too. Otherwise, we live in this grey-area we are currently in with potential infection concerns while travelling that continue putting extremely confusing travel requirements in-place. The World will never progress back to travelling freely pre-Covid without mass vaccinations. Those who oppose here, please provide published medical journal research as your source.
Having vaccinated employees does not matter much to me as they are such a tiny percentage of persons I would come in contact with during a journey. I see the whole thing more as PR exercise.
I am much more worried about the other thousands of other folks I may runs across during the travel journey than a handful of crew members I may interact with.
Yes. Requiring vaccination is a proxy for how seriously the airline is taking the pandemic generally and makes me think that all the things I can’t see are being done better.
No
I’d say you’re right. While I’m not an M.D. I have worked in public health and my theory is that everybody is going to get infected sooner or later as this virus is everywhere and isn’t going to disappear. (But diseases tend to get less virulent over time and populations slowly build up some resistance, so all we’re doing is stretching out the inevitable to take pressure off the health care systems and delay the infections of those who through no fault of their own can’t be inoculated.)
However–not getting vaccinated significantly increases the odds of getting seriously or fatally ill. So if otherwise eligible people self-select not to get it they are simply asking to be considered for Darwin Awards. Now they are also spreading the disease faster and increasing the odds of new variants arise, but they will anyway due to the billions in the world who don’t have the shots.
Bottom line: Of course I’ll fly with/use companies and go to places where people aren’t vaccinated. While I might get ill I’m expecting that is likely anyway and it probably be recoverable. And eventually one way or another those who don’t take care of themselves will be removed from the landscape.
The only thing I’m sorry about is that governments aren’t leveling with people about what the future holds in terms of living with another virus. After all, there are many that have come before. So I think there never will be a day when victory is declared and it’s just a matter of how much we want to accept. It’s a bit like deciding to turn off life support for a dying patient or put a dollar value on a person (insurance companies do that all the time). Somebody has to level with those who are affected so we can talk about where to go from here in 1, 5 or 20 years. We cannot pretend forever that things will change just because we want them to.
I will not chose an airline based on employees being vaccinated or not. What difference does it make? They are such a small percentage of the people I come into contact with. Besides, I don’t support the requiring of vaccines. Choosing to take the vaccine, I cannot criticize those who don’t, and vice-versa.
I will NOT choose an airline which requires its employees to have vaccination. All it shows is big brother attitude.
Why do I care whether everyone is vaccination if the mask and or vaccination works?
I’ll have N95 mask and I’m vaccinated and also I understand the risks of being with unknown people or in general in crowded places.
I don’t think cloth mask protect that much yet we see almost everyone wearing only that. Vaccination only protects you, not others. Even vaccinated people are spreading COVID just like those who are not vaccination. Maybe the numbers could vary a little.
Protect yourself and others by using proper mask and avoiding unnecessary travels and STOP DICTATING others to live their life.
Yes! I feel safer if people are vaccinated and I’m in close quarters.
But also, I believe the vaccine is a healthy choice and I support businesses who care enough for their employees to require it.
Fortunately, there are lots of other careers and jobs for people who choose not to be vaccinated.
Why must people take a stand on this issue? No one is freaking out about the government requiring passports to leave the country. Nobody acts like it’s Big Bro when we are required to show proof of age to buy alcohol. To wear shirts and shoes in restaurants. To not grocery shop with your (non service) pet.
Schools and companies mandate vaccinations against deadly diseases such as measles. I would hope an airline would care about the health and well-being of its employees and millions of customers that interact with its employees.
Interesting Gary goes through such a strained analysis to avoid having to give any credit to an airline that supports vaccines. Then again…God forbid he would ever support a policy that makes him in any way have to compliment United. As long as he has his N95 then who cares?
Nope. Don’t care. I’ve had the jabs, you do whatever you want. I will give my business and undying (I hope) affection to whichever airline says I don’t need to wear a stupid, unnecessary, ineffective mask anymore.
Nope.
Flown internationally several times in the past 15 months. I wore my mask,now vaccinated, am not going to clutch pearls over whether or not someone is vaccinated.
Fortunately, I’m a 1K million-miler with United, so I don’t have to make a choice, but I would switch to United if I were otherwise.
Because I don’t know if UA is going to extend my 1K status (I’m predominantly an international business traveler, so mine would organically lapse without extension), I had considered trying out DL as a free agent. The fact that they’re not requiring all employees to be vaccinated means I won’t.
I’m doing everything I can to stay away from unvaccinated people – the data is clear that unvaccinated people can infect the vaccinated. My company requires vaccination for all employees and visitors to be in the office in person. My family wouldn’t have cancelled our vacation last month had we known that everyone on the plane was vaccinated.
I will not fly on a facist airline, like united.
Suppose its a nice to have, but hardly a deciding factor in choosing a service whether employees are vaxxed or not.
I will choose an airline based on vaccine requirements (Hello United!). I would rather interact with people who I know were definitely vaccinated than maybe so. Also, all the anti vaxxers will hate on United and will fly other airlines so I have a better chance of my fellow passengers being vaccinated.
Yes, it makes a difference to me.
I don’t think it’s so much an airline wanting to market itself as safe because employees are vaccinated, but more that they want their employees to be healthy and on duty, rather than quarantined or dead. Unvaccinated people should not be allowed in jobs where they have contact with the public.
It won’t be a factor in who I fly with. That said, everyone who can should get vaccinated. If mandates speed up that process, fine…I’ll support that. One of the great mistakes made by authorities was not stating that the goal of vaccines (and masks and restrictions) has been to keep the virus in check to keep the hospitals from collapsing. We can argue about freedoms and personal choices and just how deadly the virus is (and your chances of dying from it) and what not but keeping hospitals from collapsing because they’re overrun with infected COVID patients and can’t handle the stuff they’re normally supposed to handle has always been priority one and yet conversely has not the main talking point…and really not a talking point at all except when brought up as a statistic illustrating how bad spikes get in some locations.
YES- I will choose an airline who endorses and mandates vaccinations, masks and other appropriate Health & Safety standards over airlines who do not – There will be times where my preference can not be satisfied and will need to move forward despite my preference.
I also will choose services, hotels, dining, business opportunities, support efforts & leisure activities etc with entities who observe vaccination & masking standards as well.
Anyone that thinks that service on an airline where thousands of people had to get medical treatment that they didn’t want to keep their jobs will lead to better service is delusional.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if United quietly walks this back under union pressure. AAL DAL and LUV plus lots of other airlines can figure out how to meet their public health responsibilities without taking away their employees’ health care choices.
Good thing Southwest is quickly growing to be United’s largest competitor.
This would not make a difference to me. I flew 4 segments last week, and will do another 5 next week. Even flying F I would interact with FA not more than with a waiter in a restaurant. Why one would care if airline pilots are vaccinated if they are in a locked cockpit? And by they, whether or not employees are vaccinate would not change the course of the pandemic. By the way, the current spike illustrates that none of the government efforts like vaccination, masking, etc. were effective to stop the Delta variant from spreading…Luckily, it is less fatal than the previous variants.
Yes, there’s less to worry about with vaccinated people in any kind of group setting.
In a few more weeks the question won’t be “are you vaccinated?”
It will be “have you been vaccinated in the last 3 or 6 months?”
The data coming out of Israel, the UK, Iceland, and even the US (Mayo Clinic) shows the efficacy of some vaccines (Pfizer) is down in the 30/40% efficacy range. What do you think it’s going to be after 9 or 12 months? Not good.
I will comfortably fly any airline which requires morbidly obese, filthy American freedumb loving vermin(as well as employees) to be fully vaccinated to even step foot on a plane.
@snowe….hahahahahahahahaha
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@Gary —> In an ideal world — one were everyone is vaccinated — we could all go back to flying our preferred airline of choice and this wouldn’t be an issue. But since this is far from an ideal world, 1) I choose to be — and am — vaccinated; 2) I believe the idea that air onboard a modern commercial aircraft is refreshed often *and* is filtered to a hospital-quality standard (i.e.: HEPA filters are in place); 3) I would *like* everyone around me — passengers as well as ground and flight crew — to be vaccinated as well…but then you have people like @snowe who think it’s fascism to require masks, let alone vaccinations, and — well . . .
But aren’t flight staff and all passengers required to wear masks anyway, regardless of vaccine status? I’d prefer the whole WORLD be vaccinated but at lease the mask requirement is in place so there is some level of protection.
It would be a tiebreaker and viewed positively but if the fare is $50 lower and comes with all my elite perks I doubt it would make a difference.
Now if the airline required proof of vax for all passengers that would have some value to me, particularly for longer flights. That is one of the reasons Hawaii flights are so safe (vax or test).
No, absolutely NO! I’d choose my airline based upon loyalty (currently AA Platinum Pro), convenience, service including aircraft type and age and price not necessarily in that order….I must say that those who seem to be pushing this vaccination narrative are missing the point. First, the vaccination protects the person who’s vaccinated….I never worry about who is or isn’t vaccinated against Polio or Tuberculosis or whatever because it’s none of my business and I feel protected ….but bottom line is we deal with unvaccinated people all the time, second these ‘vaccines’ are growing less effective every day….just like the flue every year the vaccines have only been effective to a point, if we get on this merry go round we will be on it forever as people will have to be vaccinated over and over, but most of all I have eaten out well over a hundred times without a mask, flown with and without a mask, traveled all over and never used hand sanitizer…what I can tell you is that immune health is far more critical than any vaccines or masks will ever be. The airlines and service companies that ignore hysterical mislead and get back to business will get my loyalty and dollars.
Absolutely! We will not fly on an airline that does not require a vaccine passport!
There is literally nothing that I care less about than an airline forcing it’s employees to get a Covid vaccine. Covid is never going to be eradicated. Just like HIV, Original SARS, Measles, Mumps, Colds, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Covid Flu and most others… eradication is not going to happen, ever, and everyone on the planet is going to get Covid eventually.
The more people who choose to fly Delta or United because the employees are vaccinated, the more room for us on American…
An airline that requires it’s employees to be vaccinated is choosing the safety and well being of it’s customers and employees over political expediency…..might explain why airlines with a large presence in Texas and Florida are going the political route.
Are people who are “vaccinated” actually better off than those who are NOT (but have natural immunity), based on the latest real-life data out of Israel (as well as UK and Australia)? When their most serious cases of Delta variant infections arise within those who had already gotten both jabs of Pfizer/BioNTech?
https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1423322271503028228
And from Public Health England publication (out of UK) —
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001359/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_16.pdf <– see page 12 bottom line reporting on #Deaths [34 unvaccinated deaths vs 37 vaccinated deaths]
When even 3rd jabs are appearing to *not* work as well as hoped (with continuing "breakthrough" infections)?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-14-israelis-have-caught-covid-19-despite-receiving-booster-shot/
Where do we go next with all those extra jabs after the 3rd one (booster jab) fails? Shouldn't we be looking for better solutions than repeating the same (failed) actions again and again, while misleading the world's public about the true efficacy of currently available"vaccines"?
What did Albert Einstein tell us about engaging in such repetitious (and failed) actions while expecting (hoping for) different outcomes?
When I have my hair cut, I want a vaccinated person to do it. With FA and pilots, their threat to passengers exists but is smaller than the threat from so many other passengers.
It would make a small difference but some difference in selecting an airline to fly. If passengers were required to be vaccinated along with employees, that airline has my business. I don’t want to get Covid-19.
Want to limit my interaction with vaccinated people. They are so self righteous, it’s unbearable.
Pro-segregation, anti-minority, anti-working class bigots. All of them.
Definitely will not spend money on any city or business that requires a vaccine.
Simple as that.
Yes. A company whose employees are vaccinated will offer more reliable service as they will have less employees out sick or dealing with brain fog and all the other long-term issues of recovering from COVID-19, plus less funerals of colleagues to go to.
And they will be more likely to wise up and require all customers to be vaccinated too, which will be as close to freedom from being given disease and death we can get to right now.
I don’t think this would be a driving force in my decision making, I do appreciate the gesture. It won’t stop them from getting sick and spreading the virus, I can only hope they have the common sense to stay home if that happens. It will keep them from getting hospitalized or possibly death ( or at least the percentages are with them ). What I do think is the airlines are stuck in a bad spot, with the horrific unions representing the staff they are probably going to be sued if the employees get sick and hospitalized. Now I am sure the crap unions will holler this isn’t legal to force employees to get vaccinated. Can’t win either way with the way the unions have become. They no longer represent the people, they only care about themselves and the financial gains. Sounds like government.
Nope! As long as the airline can get me from A to B in the most convenient and competitive matter, I’m flying that one.
@George, they are not self righteous, they are simple right. It’s as simple as this….if everyone got vaccinated this pandemic would be over, period. No if’s and’s or butts about it, there is no rational argument against that. Many are frustrated because so much off the current situation is driven by wacko conspiracy theories or just plain ugly politics that has decided the wacko conspiracy voter base is more important then just doing what is right.
I choose strictly on status, price, timing, reliability and to a much less criteria, ability for an upgrade. Vax status of pax, front line, crew, or anyone else plays zero role in my selection of an airline or flight.
Vax status plays zero role in what I do in life right now at least under the current situation.
A pandemic is over when we go back to a normal life. Sure there are adjustments like wearing the stupid and useless paper blue masks that don’t fit, establishments that can only operate with <100% capacity and other minor irritants but look at the airports, look on the road on your way to work or the store, heck look at work [we are actually working] etc. We the people have had enough and are starting to get back to doing what we do best and that is live every day again. The pandemic is over [minus those few irritants]. The left is trying to control us thru fear mongering but more and more people each day are getting sick of it and going back to their routines. That is how it should be.
Vaccination is the BLM of 2021. Much like companies in 2020 with BLM, These companies are being bullied by social media mobs backed by lobbying groups to publicly release customer or employee vaccine mandates or face the wrath of fabricated stories and misinformation spread throughout the social media sphere. It’s public shaming on a global scale and social media has become a giant gossip corner. I live in a pretty liberal area where I would say 95% of my colleagues and neighbors are vaccinated and democrat. Hardly anyone cares about antivax. They trust the vaccine they received, know the science behind the unlikelihood of severe problems in children, and move on with their lives. It’s all media hype at this point.
@Jake refers to freedom? I don’t believe this poster knows what freedom is. Not one of our founding fathers would submit to a forced medical treatment in particular with the kind of real life data out there such as what @CuriousCat posted. @derek is worried about getting his hair cut and @JohnW thinks this is all political but he didn’t take the time to refute any of the facts offered by @CuriousCat. Yet @Jake cites freedom and I understand that and want it too, but freedom doesn’t come from submitting to authorities that have dragged us all around by our eyelids for the past 18 months and while we all at some point did what we were told, some of us are now noticing that it is never enough and the wild predictions they use to drive us into submission never come true.
The reality is that the politics are on the side of the irrational fear being spread and the resulting control that fear causes. If anyone on the blog knows history perhaps some others could post examples in history when irrational fear was used to manipulate the masses towards the evil plans of tyrants. Look, fear is a motivator and on a micro scale I’m sure the parents out there can attest to this!! I can’t be sure exactly why this fear is being promulgated because it doesn’t take much to help @derek get his hair cut whether or not the person who cuts it vaccinated or not…if this was dangerous….how about millions have done it @derek with no issues at all!! How about the data that continues to indicate clearly that this virus even when all deaths blamed on it are counted, even those that don’t die directly from it but die with a positive test, most age groups still are above 98% survivability and below 50 is even better. Sadly some still fear a haircut or shopping in a store and some drive alone with masks!! Yet, many have no fear of the so called treatment despite the clear reductions in efficacy to prevent spread and to prevent disease and the very real data showing these vaccines have among the highest side effect and reported health affects. Come on folks, look at Israel and other countries, those of you hanging your hat on these treatments and who seem to be willing to throw away your humanity to force people who have done the research and have made their choice and while it doesn’t directly affect you, because you feel it slows return to normal you are willing to make your neighbor unemployed and destitute by forcing mandates! This is the textbook definition of what irrational fear does to people. If you want back to normal, start rejecting the fear, take reasonable precautions based upon your sound judgement, let people work and live and stop please stop the fear. Incidentally the total number of childhood Covid deaths is far less than the weekly suicide and other cause death rates in these age groups yet return to school is all over the news. One educator said that a child who doesn’t wear a mask is a murderer! It’s time to wake up, put the fear aside or perhaps the desire to control others and move forward together.
@Mark Rascio —> Considering this is a forum re: travel and points, rather than a political forum, I shall refrain from responding point-by-point, and merely acknowledge that you have a wonderful sense of humor. Thanks for the great laugh…
@Mark Rascio +1
Personally I would prefer an airline which is requiring all peple on the plane (crew and passengers) beeing vaccinated.
@Jason, well a little demonstrating absurdity by being absurd and yes you are right this is a travel forum and I’m sure we can agree that it’s time to remove the politics from travel and yes sports and more….it was a happier world then….kind of verifies the old saying to keep certain topics off limits in many forums. Sadly, the stage has been set by others…maybe if enough of us begin for force normal as some of the other posters are suggesting we can revert to exciting discussions of missed connections, lost baggage, long tarmac delays and turbulence!
Mark–actually George Washington demanded that his troops at Valley Forge be vaccinated against smallpox. See https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/GW&smallpoxinoculation.html So yes, one of the founding fathers did insist on forced medical treatment. And for his soldiers (like those who get today’s Covid shots) it was a good thing too.