The fact that the transportation mask mandate is set to end in nine days and no decision about its future has been announced yet – or even leaked – tells me that the administration has had internal disagreement and uncertainty on what to do with it.
On the one hand they haven’t wanted to be ‘wrong’ being seen to declare victory over Covid-19 too early. They remember well a declaration of independence from Covid last 4th of July.
On the other hand, the facts on the ground really have changed with the seven day average of reported cases down 95% from their peak; hospitals not overwhelmed; a dominant strain that’s less virulent; boosters that are holding up well against hospitalization; and more widespread treatments like reformulated monoclonal antibodies and small molecule inhibitors (Paxlovid).
Even Hawaii is lifting its indoor mask mandate. No state will have one. Does it make airports, planes, trains and buses to the only places most people have to wear masks as a matter of law, where planes are relatively safer indoor environments and when cloth masks are ineffective yet satisfy the requirement?
I’ve argued from the start that the mask mandate would need to be lifted before the midterm elections, with control of the House and Senate in the balance. The political need to lift requirements may be even more imperative than that, with inflation and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine (and U.S. response) driving up gas prices. Democrats of President Biden’s age will want to avoid a malaise presidency asking for too much sacrifice across too many dimensions at the same time.
Gas is now officially more expensive than the movie I Am Legend imagined it would be during the apocalypse. pic.twitter.com/Av98Vdiwxn
— Taylor Trandahl (@ttrandahl) March 7, 2022
Sara Nelson’s Association of Flight Attendants has walked back stories about its lobbying to continue the mask requirement on planes. This may be the second biggest tell that it’s on the chopping block after the administration’s lack of an announcement about its future.
- Many flight attendants don’t want the requirement, they’re the ones who have to wear masks the most since they fly more than passengers do.
- The union may sense that the mask requirement will be lifted and doesn’t want to appear weak being on the losing side of the argument – better to appear neutral.
While I anticipated Russia’s invasion of Ukraine I didn’t anticipate that it could play into the decision over whether to extend the federal transportation mask mandate. But the decision is ultimately a political one, and current politics could move up when the mandate gets lifted – no longer having to wait until close to the midterms.
But, but, it’s all about the SCIENCE Gary.
Some of the most paranoid private sector maskers in our neck of the wood are quietly dropping their requirements – one just did so this morning with no fanfare. Most local government mandates are gone. A lot of people are still wearing them out of habit, or virtue signal, and they’re welcome to do so, but I know of only one place left that I frequent that is still asking customers to wear a mask inside the shop. – and they’re still asking for hand-washing, which we have known is not a factor since Summer 2020. It’s a bit of a pain, but it’s a long-term relationship.
I almost have a feeling they’re just going to let the airline mandate expire without comment. That way no one gets any blame or uncomfortable questions at any announcement.
I wish pieces like this acknowledged that millions of Americans are immunocompromised and that mask policies that work for the median traveler might not work for folks who would love to travel but won’t if they can’t be assured of good masking. Yes, it’s not good that cloth masks currently count. That’s an argument for better masking, not none. Making travel better for elites is one way to approach this; I wish posts like this would entertain other paths forward.
@Brooks – Sorry, we don’t run society on the basis of the most inconvenienced. That’s a good way to never do anything, including never leaving the house. (If you know 250 people on social media, three of them will eventually die in car accidents.) We all take risks every day – it’s time to start doing so again.
Brooks — You realize that there are lots of deadly diseases out there other than Covid, right? So unless you have always, and will continue for the rest of your life to wear masks in every single public setting where an immunocompromised person might be, I’m afraid you are a hypocrite. Or at the very least disingenuous.
I’m with C_M on this Mr. Brooks…you don’t manage a population of 350 Million people to exceptions. My question got you Brooks is, if you are vaxed, boosted and wear a mask yourself what exactly are you afraid of if nobody else wore a mask? What statistical data are you using to suggest you are still in any real danger? What are you basing your fear on? As C_M said, during a bad flu season were you wearing a mask? Did you ever wear a mask before COVID? If not, why didn’t you care about your health then? I could go on…bottom line is, if you know you’re in the risk category, take whatever precautions you deem necessary, but it’s quite unfair to say the rest of the population has to follow your guidelines for safety. It’s fine if you want to say we’re all being selfish, that’s your right to an opinion, but calling someone selfish doesn’t actually answer any of the questions and is still just an opinion, not a fact.
@ Gary — It should and will be extended. Over 30,000 people are becoming newly infected and 1,500 people are dying from COVID each day. These numbers are much higher than when the mask mandate was introduced and the vaccines don’t work as expected, so it will be extended.
When will requirements for antigen test prior to entry into the US be lifted?
The internal polling will be finished March 11th. Then the (political) science decision will be announced.
Gene the vast majority of people getting Covid now are unvaccinated. That is the risk they took when they made that decision. It is not my duty as a fully vaccinated person to protect them forever.
Still waiting for Brooks to respond?
@RMF
The problem is people are still dying and will continue to do so wearing masks or not. The mask mandate is over where I live, but myself included, still wear a mask. Very few people are not wearing masks. Maybe people like me don’t trust others. That’s my excuse. Soon, I will be flying to 6 countries and I will gladly wear a mask whether I’m mandated or not. Yes, I will have to take tests and I will do so willingly. NOW, where is James N to refute me?
@ CMorgan — My aunt and uncle had 4 shots each AND THEN got COVID. So, please dont tell me the vaccines work as expected. I am 100% pro-vaccine, but the talk of most new cases being are among the unvaccinated is exaggerated.
Gene – ok great, so you know some exceptions. It’s like talking in circles here, you DON’T manage a population to exceptions! Some people are unlucky and some people die in ways that are statistically outliers. People die in plane crashes, but millions still fly. People die in car crashes but we still drive. Yes, people will still die of covid. Did your aunt and uncle die? I’m guessing not. Were they in the ICU? I’m guessing not. Did they have pre-existing conditions or fit in a high risk demographic. I’m guessing yes, but you will say no, they were models of health.
And RoG – ok, you don’t trust other, fine. But again I ask a question nobody seems to want to answer…
If you are vaxed, boosted and wear a mask yourself what exactly are you afraid of if nobody else wore a mask? What statistical data are you using to suggest you are still in any danger? What are you basing your fear on?
I don’t care if you want to wear a mask, I’m just wondering on what basis (other than opinion, anecdote or exception) you needed everyone else to wear one.
@Gene
Yes, Gene but not the dying.
Look at Britain, today. 90% of dead are vaccinated.
Deaths going up.
The vaccines don’t work gang.
Just like masks.
They failed to do anything.
And now, with everyone vaccinated, you’ve ruined the immune systems ability to react.
TLDR: If you got an mRNA vaccine, you’re hosed.
You’ll be more susceptible to this virus, forever.
The covid shot is similar to the flu shot – it doesn’t stop you from getting it but in most cases will reduce the impact of the virus on your body. Every person I know at work had two shots and everyone and their family members got covid. Same for my wife and I. Discounting the shot because it doesn’t “prevent covid” puts you in the same camp as those saying the covid shots prevents you from getting covid. Neither is true.
Gary is absolutely right that masks on aircraft have been political since the day that Fauci’s email was released showing that he knew that cloth and non-surgical masks were ineffective against covid – but a mask requirement was put in place and has remained in place for over 2 years.
In over 2 years of transportation mask requirements, there hasn’t been a single study that proves that masks as worn by the general public do any good. Absent science, it is all politics.
And United did a scientific test early in the pandemic showing that aircraft ventilation systems eliminate nearly all covid sized particles. That study doesn’t get near the press it should.
And the real reason why the airline mask mandate is likely to end is because US airlines all agree it should go and they have communicated that to the feds. There is no doubt that the increased rate of bad passengers is due in part because of mask mandates which also drive away a certain number of passengers including business passengers. With the astronomical rise in fuel prices, airlines need to do everything they can to get business passengers back on their aircraft.
The majority of Americans no longer believe the Administration is even handling covid well. They have to come up with a few “wins” and removing the mask mandate as quickly as possible might make a difference in November.
I am cautiously optimistic that it will be lifted but suspect that it will not be announced until the day before, as it will be totally unenforceable after it is announced. Alternatively, it will be prematurely ended concurrent to the announcement.
I Agree with what Michael Ryan says:
When will requirements for antigen test prior to entry into the US be lifted?
Anyone who wants can still wear a mask. Flight attendants as well.
They also need to drop the bs testing requirements. Most countries now lifted testing for vaxxed travelers. Why are we still requiring it? Come on Sleepy Joe step up and join the rest of the world.
@ RMF — Aged 50s, pre-existing conditions (what does that have to do with vaccines working??), and they did NOT need to see a doctor due to their COVID infections. Nonetheless, Americans were told that vaccines work stop the spread, and they generally failed at doing that. Mask wearing generally doesn’t work at advertised either, but if each preventative measure contributes to reducing the spread, they should be continued.
I am being hopeful this foolish exercise will soon be over. I think it will just quietly expire. Or at most the day of expiration or day after expiration it will be acknowledged with little fanfare.
To announce it will expire in advance would only serve to cause mayhem cause people would say what difference does a few days make and refuse to mask up. Plus there are a lot of their supporters who want mask forever and they do not want to be flagrant about it. The fact nothing has been said and the fact Public Enemy #1 Fauci has been in time out for the last couple weeks is promising.
@RMF
Sure! It’s called the fear of dying. Latest stats. 6 million worldwide, 960,000 stateside. Is that enough for you or do you want more? Do you think there will be more? It’s your decision not mine. I’ve made my decision, so I’ll stay away from you, if you don’t mind?
The entire “Science” about masks and their “efficacy” is totally messed up and contradictory — one side cites multiple studies indicating that even N95 masks do *not* work in filtering against SARS-CoV-2 because the coronavirus particles are way too small to get trapped, while the other side cites conflicting studies indicating that even surgical masks will be effective to help prevent unnecessary spreading by infected individuals (eg, by those masks slowing down the net velocity of out-flowing particulates spewed when coughing or sneezing). And then there are contentions about exactly *when* an infected individual is “most” infectious — one side says within the first 5 days after initial infection (whether symptomatic or not) while the other side says only once symptoms manifest. Who wouldn’t get totally confused?
Asia has long exhibited cultural behaviors that basically push everyone to take total personal responsibility about such matters, going back even before the days of COVID-19 and covering prior influenza seasons — IFF one is (suspected to be) infected, then wear a mask when among others (whether at home or in public settings), in order to reduce potentials for spreading, with *No* mass wearing of masks by those who are *Not* manifestly sick!
This cultural practice also dovetails into what *Should* have been done to handle this entire pandemic, in the first place — protect those who are most vulnerable (the aged and those with co-morbidities) while leaving the rest of the populace to go about “business-as-normal” in order to promote attainment of “Herd Immunity” ASAP!
But now global mass injections with those cellular genetic therapies (eg, mRNA and Adenovirus-vectored jabs), which do *Not* even qualify as traditional vaccines, have seriously damaged the natural immunity systems of those who got jabbed, even into negative VE territory, such that they can now become *More* susceptible to getting infected and suffering dire consequences, than those who did *Not* get jabbed at all — those of you who are desperately pro-vaxx do *Not* need to try and “debunk” this statement, since Delta and Omicron upended “common beliefs” from before, and my contentions have always been backed up with verified clinical *Data* provided by more honest government agencies in such foreign countries as UK, Israel, etc!
So such global pandemic *Disasters* with mask and “vaccine” mandates are considered to be “progress” in public health “management”? Really? Seriously?
I don’t mind, but you still didn’t answer my question Rog that I’ve now asked twice….ok, 6M worldwide out of what, 7 billion…yes, let’s lock down the world for .001% of the population. Also, you people who quote a total death number as justification for all this ridiculousness never want to address the demographic breakdown of those deaths and just want to apply restrictions to everyone equally even thought he virus hard treats everyone equally. Do I think there will be more and it’s my decision to kill more people? Do you know anything about demographics or how to analyze statistics or do you only know how to run around like a fool yelling out one number with no context?
I’m done with with conversation because they say there is no point in arguing with stupid. Rog – if you want to believe what you believe go right aged, lock yourself in a panic room or do whatever you need to do to feel ‘safe’, but know your well being is totally in your hands. I bet you eat red meat, have had alcohol, have been in direct sunlight, don’t exercise every day, etc…things that constantly put your health at risk. Take a statistics class or two, you’ll be able to walk down the street without getting scared about one number that you clearly don’t understand.
Sorry, Gary. I’m confused. In this article you said, “While I anticipated Russia’s invasion of Ukraine …” but in the article you linked to you stated, “I don’t know what’s going to happen in Ukraine.” You also suggested that if one did travel to Ukraine, “… limiting yourself to Lyiv …”
I have to agree with the commenters here who have stated that once they announce the mandate ends, it’s unenforceable – it ends then, not the scheduled date. Which is why I think we’re going to see an end to it – they would have announced an extension by now, but they can’t announced it’s not going to be renewed.
“most people have to wear masks as a matter of law”. It is not law, it is an edict from both Biden (executive order), and his agencies. In order for it to be a law, it has to be passed by Congress, the Senate, and signed by the President. It drives me crazy when I’m at DFW and they say it’s a law. It’s not.
@Razor g – a regulation has the force of law, I think what you mean to saw is that the masking requirement was not passed as legislation
@CM – there is absolutely no reason they could not end enforcement now!
Cool, let’s end the testing requirement for reentry into the US as well. It makes zero sense and it easily defeated if one has Covid and flies to a border town, like TJ just outside San Diego. As far as masking, if you want to wear one go ahead, nobody should take issue with it. N95’s are fairly effective and will protect the most vulnerable so the rest of us can get back to normal.
@Gary – I agree, but that that would require some degree of admitting it’s gone on longer necessary. Since when has anyone in the government, of either party, ever admitted they went too far? Their grandchildren might apologize, the current crew – never. The best we can hope for is they let it end with a whimper. Every day they don’t renew is a day closer to the whimper.
For the intelligent rather than prejudiced reader, a recent article summarising studies on mask effectiveness:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536
@ Gene
You are very confused. I can’t remember any vaccine manufacturer ever claiming that their vaccine would be 100% effective at stopping spread of infection. Data were published indicating an expected reduction in transmissions for the vaccinated. Efficacy data indicated strong protection in preventing hospitalisations, death, etc.
@ Don
Your statements and inferences are just plain wrong. Masks do aid in limiting transmissions of virus (see link above). Vaccines limit hospitalisations and deaths, especially if boosted.
@ Tim Dunn
You are factually incorrect. Studies cited above show benefits of wearing masks. Claiming that such studies don’t exist to accommodate your personal world view is puerile nonsense.
@ StrictlyFacts
Yes, it’s perfectly understandable that you are totally confused. You are never going to get a definitive answer to a scientific question – science is a process of never-ending enquiry Epidemiologists are presenting their models on the best data available at the time. That dataset is ever accruing. In the case of COVID, key parameters differ between viral strains, demographic and other groupings. That’s why the models that inform governments are run with many variations in their input parameters.
You are never going to work out what’s going on if you look at the data superficially (which is you and just about everybody on this blog).
You do realize that the viruses are riding on water droplets and potentially particulate matter (they have an electrical charge), right? The size of the virus in such cases isn’t the issue.
Incidentally, studies cited above show that collective responsibility is beneficial.
Your business as usual and herd immunity fantasies are just that – fantasies. That’s the sort of stupid thinking that has led to the deaths of around one million Americans.
@ RMF
The reason you continue to wear a mask is because there is a community benefit derived from doing so (see attached link). You are selfishly thinking of things entirely in relation to yourself. That’s sad, because it’s symptomatic of a society such as the USA which has an appalling record in handing COVID.
Your analogies to cars and planes are fundamentally flawed. Governments place huge restrictions on driving and invest in road designs promoting safety. Drivers are excluded on the basis of age, medical conditions, risky behaviors, etc. Driving rules preclude intoxication and drugs. There are complex road rules to promote safety. We are expected to wear seat belts and develop out situational awareness and advance driving skills. Vehicle manufacturers constantly innovate safety features in vehicle design.
Aviation is highly managed in terms of safety risks and geared to events of such infinitesimally small probabilities that the cost of such is huge compared with the probability of a mortality event. That’s not just the processed followed in the cockpit, but those in the cabin and airside at the airport, not to mention the functions of ATC.
The point is that your examples represent highly managed scenarios.
Furthermore, the statistical probabilities often quoted are based on probability of an event AFTER the mitigation has been put into place. Something about not arguing with the stupid, RMF? You argue that low death rates demonstrate that lock downs and other measures are overkill, yet don’t accept that the mortality rates you quote are those after such control measures have been applied.
The COVID mortality rate in Australia was 40 times less during Alpha and Delta waves and now is still 15 times during the Omicron wave less than in the USA. That’s the difference between successfully managing g the pandemic as a community or not.
To be fair, the whole debate has become somewhat moot with Omicron – compared with Delta, apparently much higher risk of transmission, but lessor risk of hospitalisation / death, especially in the vaccine boosted.
Most of the Australians now lost to COVID are those who are elderly and haven’t had their booster shots (the later a national government failing). So, yes, we do need to manage to target groups faced with Omicron.
FWIW I just cancelled by end March trip to the USA, because of the need to test within 24 hours of travel. That prove to be highly impractical and very costly.
Incidentally, here in Queensland, there are no further mask mandates in most scenarios (expect for travel)
Amazing that we’re actually debating whether or not to continue a known fraud. The evidence is overwhelming that they’ve lied about everything for the past two years, and still we have people saying, “Please sir, can I have some more”.
Somehow I doubt that dropping or extending the mask requirement on planes will move the needle one bit in US elections. Those who hate masks, vaccines and testing already have their minds made up on who they will vote for in the Fall.
Palmolive softens hands while you do dishes.
You’re soaking in it.
Even milder than before with that special proticare formula.
Tough on grease, soft on hands.
@Platy
If you can’t afford an antigen test, then I am not sure you can afford to be travelling in the first place.
Granted, it is impractical – but it’s not costly.
@GetReal – Depends on what you mean by “not costly”. I’ve been in places that charge $150, unless you know where to go to pay $75. And even then, you spend 2 hours getting there, getting the results, and getting back. Not every country charges $20 and has a test center on every street corner. And all of that to tell me I hadn’t caught Covid in the last 5 days, and there were already plenty of cases in the US anyway.
I have a crack in my right big toenail. I think that qualifies as an excuse to extend the federal mandate for six more years.
@Platy — “Yes, it’s perfectly understandable that you are totally confused … You are never going to work out what’s going on if you look at the data superficially (which is you and just about everybody on this blog)..”
ROFLMAO! Your condescending attitude does *Not* therefore make you an “expert” about anything — just exactly *What* do you know about how deeply I look at the *Real* data, anyway? Are you psychic, or just psycho, to make such totally unfounded allegations?
What I posted about “being confused” was rhetorical in nature and does *Not* mean that I, therefore, am confused about anything! I merely point out the contradictions within the so-called “scientific” community on such matters! Do you understand what rhetorical means?
————————————————————————-
— “You do realize that the viruses are riding on water droplets and potentially particulate matter (they have an electrical charge), right? The size of the virus in such cases isn’t the issue.”
Do you understand the differences between water droplets and particulate matter vs. aerosols in the transport of viruses? Are you familiar with the MIT analyses on this issue, about masks and viral sizes? Or about aerosolized spreading of viruses from coughing and sneezing?
————————————————————————-
— “Incidentally, studies cited above show that collective responsibility is beneficial.”
I already made this point in my post, so there’s nothing “incidental” about this fact!
————————————————————————-
— “Your business as usual and herd immunity fantasies are just that – fantasies. That’s the sort of stupid thinking that has led to the deaths of around one million Americans.”
So you’re trying to disavow the way that epidemics (and pandemics) of yore have ultimately been overcome? Is Sweden doing just great, despite *Not* having followed the totally flawed, yet still mandated, policies of our government turncoats to *Real* Science? Do you think that the lockdowns and shutdowns, along with those jabs of experimental cellular genetic therapies (now even into our kids down to age 5), have been effective at accomplishing much, besides harming our Society and Economy, *at large*? Have *You* looked at the most recent *Real* data in detail from the UK and Israel? Or even from USA’s CDC of late (strange as that may seem)? If you believe that those mandated acts by our so-called “leaders” in government were “effective,” then “stupid” just morphed into “moronic”!
What’s *Your* “brilliant” remedy to have *Properly* handled this pandemic, “Einstein”?
————————————————————————-
I see that you hail from Queensland, Australia … my condolences to you on that! Talk about how to *Absolutely Not* handle a pandemic — your Aussie state governments apparently never actually understood that a ZERO-Covid policy was a totally losing proposition, to begin with! Look at what was done to Melbourne and WA (Perth)! And, with your case in Queensland, situations where the state border line with NSW separated neighborhoods, so that families could *Not* even be with each other, despite being within “sight” of one another! And what’s up with not being able to readily cross your border with NSW, in order to go to work and return back home every day? Those state premiers and their state health ministers need to be locked up and put away so they can *Not* do any further harm to your populace, at large! You should *Not* use Australia as a “model” on how to handle this pandemic, as global news reports have already totally exposed the travesties that beset Melbourne!
What a total tragedy for all of the people in Australia, with all of the pain and suffering that they had to endure throughout this pandemic, at the hands of their power-grubby state government officials that just *Refused* to follow the *Real* science, down under, for so long!
You have to wonder whether a few decision-makers at the airlines (say, CEO, COO, and General Counsel) have been notified, especially if the decision is to let the mandate without any fanfare. They certainly need to start planning a lot of things – do they drop it immediately or keep it for some time like they did before the mandate, drop it only for passengers of staff too, how about for international flights, how about other sanitation procedures, etc… really incompetent of the administration if they’ve made a decision already but are deliberately keeping the airlines in the dark about it.
Or, of course, the airlines may just grow a pair and just decide to stop enforcing it.
“I anticipated Russia’s invasion of Ukraine ” in reality you said:
“I don’t know what’s going to happen in Ukraine. I don’t see Putin invading the Western part of the country, crossing the Dnieper and taking the whole thing, but my point is simply that there’s more risk than we have seen of military conflict. Airlines are avoiding Ukraine airspace……..
Seems like a great time to visit! My advice if the new campaign lures you in, learn not just where the country is, but places within it. Consider limiting yourself to Lyiv (which can be accessed directly by air from much of Europe) or Ivano-Frankivsk in the West. A trip to Kharkiv or even Odessa seems… inadvisable.'”
Yea, you called it!! Spot on!
Duh. He told us Putin would invade without telling us Putin would invade. And he said he didn’t know what would happen as he told us exactly what would happen as some sort of false modesty or deflection, probably so that idiot comments wouldn’t tell him to ‘stay in his lane’.
platy,
feel free to post a SINGLE study that shows that masks work as allowed under the regulations – cloth and non-surgical paper INCLUDING allowing them to be removed for eating and drinking.
Doctors and nurses put surgical masks on and keep them on. The notion that mask wearing by the general public does a thing other than create more irate passengers is indeed a joke and anyone that can’t see that is naive behind hope.
john,
you are undoubtedly right about voter preference but pollsters do ask questions about all kinds of strategies and the results are combined into overall voter approval. Given how low the Biden Administration is polling right now, they need to get rid of every possible thing they can to eliminate any negative poll results. Other state governments have already figured it out.
@ StrictlyFacts
Oooh, yet another sensitive person on an American travel blog who is not averse to an hysterical and ignorant rant. You’re off to a bad start when you start mumbling about *real* science whilst demonstrating no capacity for independent critical thought or analysis.
You display your abject ignorance about the management of COVID and the historical responses to epidemics (nothing new on this and other US-based blogs, by the way, they seem to attract the right leaning scientifically illiterate in spades, something about abusing the responsibility of freedom of speech to disseminate misinformation and selectively quote data without context or understanding, perhaps not surprising when nearly half off the population are reportedly creationists). What was that about stupidity morphing into moronic?
You then spout the usual misinformation about Australia, typical nonsense repeatedly refuted by myself and other Australians on this and other travel blogs. Do the work, do the reading, self educate, try thinking for yourself.
QLD suffered just a handful of COVID deaths during the Alpha and Delta outbreaks, whilst your idealised fantasy country of Sweden, despite government restrictions (which some choose to ignore were in place), recorded about 15,000 COVID dead, ballpark a 1500 times worse outcome. Whilst the USA was counting its dead in the 100,000s, Australia was enjoying a mortality rate 40 times lower. Where I live, we had been in lockdown for an initial period of about 6 weeks during the first wave and then just for five days thereafter over the last two years. Four of the 6 states of Australia were entirely successful at keeping even Delta at bay. Contrary to the dumb mythology of the American right wing commentariat, 100,000s of Australians continued to travel home, and cross the international border.
You can save your sarcastic and fake concern for Australians. You mention WA, the economy is flourishing and the WA Premier enjoys stratospheric popularity. The state election held during the pandemic all but wiped out the opposition right wing. Similarly, the election held in QLD during the pandemic returned the incumbent state government with an increased majority. Oops, the people have spoken per democratic process in every state election held during the pandemic and resoundingly endorsed the political leadership of the states by voting them back into power.
The political leadership has broadly done exactly what it said it would – relax control measures when vaccination rates attained set targets. You can do the research for yourself, a clue for the clueless, you can read the Doherty Report online, which summarises the models and targets used to guide national health policy. The Australian national borders are open.
Whilst some Americans (usually the religious and right wing) bleated about deluded personal freedoms and refused to be vaccinated, Australians in the vast majority went ahead and got vaccinated (well over 90% of eligible have been vaccinated). Most of the COVID deaths in QLD when Omicron hit were in those elderly / vulnerable who were unvaccinated or didn’t have their booster.
Now the mortality rate in the USA is still 20 times worse than Australia. There are around one million dead in the USA. To most Australians that would be utterly unacceptable. It is hard to fathom how a country can let that happen and then some therein enter the pathetic litany of excuses from whinging about personal freedoms and conspiracy theories about vaccines, and inventing a fake narrative about other countries, such as Australia, which irrefutably demonstrate the shameful failure of the USA in dealing with the pandemic. One million dead. But then you read some of the commentary on these blogs and it all makes sense. The misguided claims to some insights about *real* science to justify their stupidity. One million dead. That’s mental, or to use your words, moronic.
@ Tim Dunn
IMHO you are entirely correct to call out the limitations of masks, which are of poor efficacy or not used properly. It is common failure of various administrations (including those here in Australia) not to mandate appropriate usage.
Why the hell is anyone that was injected even flying .. if you believe in the cooties nonsense. How can you possibly just hop on a plane and spread your germs willy nilly without care for everyone else. Just goes to show you what pieces of crap there are out there. Those people that believe in the cooties should stay at home to minimize the spread if they ctually give a crap about anyone other than their own pathetic self centered self.
@ GetReal
The cost for my wife and I to be tested at both the Australian and USA ends of our journey would cost roughly USD500-600. My understanding is that as non-residents we wouldn’t qualify for free testing stateside. (We were only going for less than one week to see family and attend Global Entry interview for my wife).
And it’s not as easy as you might imagine. In Australia, we don’t have a CostCo or a Walmart on every street corner offering testing.
So, there is nowhere for me to get a test in the required timeframe of one day before the flight in most of my home state (the exception being BNE). The same problem applies to northern regional NSW. That means I have to travel to SYD on the Saturday evening in readiness for the SYD-LAX flight, which requires an early Monday morning check in, so I can complete testing on the Sunday. The testing centre at SYD (Airport international car park) will not conduct the test before 24 hours before the flight departure time. Then I’m placed into a position of it being too late to cancel my flight and get my points and cash back in the event of a positive test result. I have also to isolate in SYD for 7 days according to NSW Health regulations stumping up the cost of hotel for my wife and I for that period.
Compare that with the more usual 3 day lead time. I can then get tested in my regional city home, base before I go anywhere. I don’t have the cost and hassle of traveling to SYD a day early. If my wife or I test positive, I can cancel my flights and get refunded. I /we can isolate at home.
Plan B – simply reschedule flights for later in the year to visit family in LA (done) in the hope that more visitor-friendly policy has prevails and in the meantime attend US Embassy in Singapore for Global Entry (interview already rescheduled) – I can fly directly between CNS and SIN. Testing in SIN is cheap at SGD15 and I do pre-departure test before I leave my home town in time to cancel flights etc.
@Tim Dunn, I’d also be surprised if getting rid of the mask mandate on planes moves the needle on poll results. But you never know.
Nothing’s ever going to move the needle on poll results. Republicans are done. The party was over shortly after Trump entered office and demonstrated that he was actually an idiot, that it wasn’t just some charade he played up on the campaign trail.
Absolutely no respectable young person votes Republican. Not one. The tenets of the party are vile.
@Platy —
— “Oooh, yet another sensitive person on an American travel blog who is not averse to an hysterical and ignorant rant.”
ROFLMAO! Yet another *arrogant* foreigner that spouts off with *No* evidence with respect to spewed allegations — merely more unsubstantiated personal opinions about blah, blah, blah, …
I posed several questions to you, of which you answered *None* … what does that say about your self-proclaimed “intellectual” prowess, as opposed to those whom you are so eager to disparage? As with all Progressives, just because you *wish* it so, does *Not* therefore mean that it is true! Instead of merely spewing personal opinions without any *Factual* evidence, why not try engaging in some *Real* debate about issues using actual data, instead of just whining endlessly using broad-stroked generic platitudes that come from tired old Progressive talking points? We’ve heard all of those before, so you do *Not* need to regurgitate them endlessly!
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— “You then spout the usual misinformation about Australia, typical nonsense repeatedly refuted by myself and other Australians on this and other travel blogs. Do the work, do the reading, self educate, try thinking for yourself.”
I actually *Do* watch daily Australian news broadcasts, so what I posted were actually derived from those daily broadcasts! Are you accusing your own Australian news networks of spewing lies and propaganda? Or are you merely drowning in your own lies and propaganda, as spewed by your left-wing ABC network?
————————————————————————–
— I do *Not* agree with a ZERO-Covid policy, and I do *Not* enjoy comparing #deaths statistics, but with respect to your claims about just how “successful” Australia has been in handling this pandemic, let’s compare two countries that have pursued a ZERO-Covid policy and how their statistics stack up, as of March 9, 2022 — Australia has recorded 5193 deaths with a population of 25,996,756, which equates to a death rate of 19.98/100K … Taiwan, a much smaller, yet more densely populated island, has recorded 853 deaths with a population of 23,889,188, which equates to a death rate of 3.57/100K … why do you suppose there is such a large discrepancy in death rates (a ratio of 5.6X worse for Australia)? Could Australia have done better, given that Taiwan’s population is much more densely distributed across a much smaller land area?
Sweden has had 17,660 deaths with a population of 10,205,042, which equates to a death rate of 173.05/100K, which ostensibly seems very much higher, but we need to keep in mind that they have had to absorb large numbers of foreigners from the Middle East and Africa (now comprising over 3.3% of its population), and who have been much more prone to getting infected and suffering dire consequences, thereof; for example, Somalis make up just 0.69% of Sweden’s population, yet account for 40% of deaths in Stockholm, alone, so who knows what the Swedish death rate might be, absent those foreigners?
But the major benefits to Sweden, despite their higher death rate, has been that they did *Not* let their citizens suffer through lockdowns and shutdowns that plagued (no pun intended) so many other countries worldwide, so their society and economy basically survived intact! Everyone on the Left loves to tout how their countries are now exhibiting such “fabulous” growth rates, but ignore the fact that, during those 2+ years of lockdowns and shutdowns, the baselines for such growth rates have basically been driven way down towards almost zero base, in some cases, so there is nothing actually “fabulous” to brag about, at this point! Bragging can ensue once recoveries exceed pre-pandemic achievement levels!
I am *Not* at all a supporter of what USA has done to handle this pandemic and will *Not* defend the totally despicable statistics that USA has accumulated … clearly there has been rampant institutional corruptions as well as incompetence throughout the hierarchies of USA governmental agencies, from Federal to State to Local! In fact, it has been estimated that up to 95% of COVID-19 deaths in USA should *Never* have occurred, had USA’s “Vaccines or Nothing” mandates *Not* been effected, and had proven safe and effective therapeutics (eg, Ivermectin and HCQ cocktails) been massively deployed to fight infections as early as possible! Don’t even try to “debunk” the safety and efficacy of these therapeutics with me, as I’ve personally shredded purported clinical trials that tried to show otherwise, with their designed-to-fail trial parameters and test protocols!
With all due respect, as for your “democratic voter validation” of your Australian states’ pathetic handling of this pandemic, it just goes to show how naive and gullible the general populace of Australia must have become during this pandemic — so their state premiers finally relax their inane draconian restrictions of the past 2+ years and the populace is thrilled to be “free” again, thereby reinforcing support for the very “leaders” that had already inflicted such sufferings upon them for so long? Can you name another country (besides China) where citizens were prevented from crossing state lines during those pathetic days of lockdowns and shutdowns? Or had to endure actual police brutality in Melbourne, as show worldwide in global news reports? Are the Australian people’s memories already suffering from Dementia? Or from Mass Formation Psychosis? What’s to prevent a return to those inane draconian ways again, once those same premiers deem it “necessary” to do so, based on *No* scientific evidence whatsoever, just as happened in USA? But, as that old saying goes — your people get what they vote for, and, therefore, might end up repeating recent history in the future! Recall what the real Albert Einstein said about such repeating the very same actions and expecting different outcomes?
Finally … IFF you *Still* persist in believing the “efficacy” of those experimental cellular genetic therapies, then you really need to get educated about what those purportedly “effective” jabs could be doing to the immune systems of so many of those who obediently, and blindly, got their jabs … do you even understand that VE can actually go *Negative* with those jabs? What are the dire implications of that, given the recently increasing #cases that appear to be so inexplicable to those who claim to be “scientists,” yet have *No* comprehension, as to why such is occurring?
Don’t get me wrong — I was actually once considering retiring in Australia, at some time in the future, but after seeing how inane and totalitarian your state premiers have been with their handling of this pandemic, I’m certainly *Not* going to do that any time soon, so you can breathe a huge sigh of relief! 😛
@ StrictlyFacts
The debate on managing COVID has been aired on this and other travel websites. Go back to the historical posts. Myself and others have previously provided pages upon pages of evidenced information and attendant cross references to the scientific and medical literature. I’m not going to waste my time repeating these for the sake of one hysterical poster.
Something about no time for Covidiots that didn’t get the memo. You’ll find my posts on this and other sites with the least effort if you can handle an internet search engine.
Now let’s look past your dumb comments about “foreigners”, which, frankly make you look petulant and can only encourage some “foreigners” to reinforce their prejudices of dumb Americans. Clearly you have to be dumb to sit back and let one million people die, right?
To clarify and thereby bypass your senseless ranting about unanswered questions. I have already answered your questions repeatedly and extensively. Probably more than any other person on this and others of the most popular travel blog websites (VFTW, LL, OMAAT) when it comes to the Australian response to COVID. Like I said, do the work, the information is at your fingertips, if you can handle a search engine. In the time you spent scribbling a rant, you could have learned something useful.
So, you watch the Australian media. Good for you. To reflect your incipient racism so you can understand how it comes across, you may not be as clueless as many other “Americans”, but no I take that back reading the rest of your post, you really are that dumb Whilst you are reinforcing your prejudiced misconceptions about COVID, I’m reading the scientific and medical literature, and, crucially, reviewing the models which our governments have used to inform their health policy, curious about their strengths and weaknesses.
Let’s put that into practical terms – whilst you are crying over toys in a kindergarten sandpit, I’m trying to work out if the grown-ups have got it right.
You are so out of touch on matters Australian you don’t realise that it is not a political battle in Australia, like it has become in the USA. Your comments about left wing bias in the ABC is thereby misplaced and idiotic. And, just for the record, the ABC operates under a charter which legally obliges political impartiality and is subject to continual Parliamentary scrutiny on such. That does not apply to other media outlets like the Murdoch empire, itself dominant in the Australia media landscape and largely unfettered in its political agenda.
Australia did not engage in a zero COVID strategy. There was a national parliamentary enquiry on this. Again, you can go and use your favorite search engine to self-educate.
I’m not sure it’s even worth entertaining your racist delusions about foreigners in Sweden. Suffice to say that a responsible government adopts a responsible health policy for the good of the whole community. And that includes sick people, old people and immigrant populations. In the event that any of those groups are more vulnerable, then the government needs to step up to protect them. Some nations (e.g. UK, Australia) have legal statutes requiring equality of health treatment by the state (what some dumb Americans confuse with communism) without any discriminatory practice.
Of course, the USA has no universal health system, so has struggled predictably during the pandemic. Once COVID hit the USA we all knew it wouldn’t cope having commercialised health without due regard for the poorer and weaker in its communities.
You mistakenly see COVID management as a politically divisive issue. Sure, that is evidently the case in the USA. But don’t project the stupidity of tRump and his simpering Republicans inciting such onto other nations. In Australia the state governments of both left and right of centre have broadly adopted similar health policies.
You have a very misinformed concept about the extent of lockdowns in Australia. Even when you are presented with the facts you hang onto to your child’s toy unable to give it up. You do realise that the Swedish government placed restrictions on population, right? It wasn’t the free for all, that certain right-wing commentators espouse. I have already informed you that our local mortality rate was 1500 times less than Sweden’s during the alpha and delta waves and we enjoyed a largely unrestricted existence throughout most of the pandemic.
Bottom line, dumb one, is that most Australians did not suffer per your misinformed rant and nor did they die. By the time Omicron hit the nation was substantially vaccinated.
Why do I bother with such ignorance?! Maybe somebody smarter than you is reading this. Maybe I’m annoyed that dumb and stupid people like you misrepresent and disrespect science.
You descend into your conspiracy theories, akin to the utter insanity of certain elements of the right wing.
But, just out of interest, let’s see just how desperate you need to become to defend your delusion.
You accept that one million dead is bad. But then deny the very management option that has been proven in human history – restriction of movement (and quarantine of folk).
You try to use the charge of corrupt practices in government to suggest that the people are being conned, yet conveniently ignore the fact that such a theory would need to apply to every country on the planet to be valid. So, we have mass delusion and conspiracy across 200 plus national governments, right?
You choose to ignore that vaccine development is subject to a validation process, just like any other drug, even your poster fix-it drug of Ivermectin. So, tell me, dumb one, do you take any meds, or would you or your family (please tell me you don’t apply your stupidity to innocent children) were sick?! It is succulently hypocritical of some to decree COVID vaccinations and go running for the antibiotics when you get a chesty cough. Same process, but a unique stupidity in some when it comes to managing COVID.
Strangely, Australia is a federation of states, a commonwealth country and, what do you know, a democratic country. To bolster your idiotic belief set you now need to denigrate the vast majority of the nation to the scrap heap of fools. Close to 100% (based upon those accepting vaccination) of the population are idiots, right? They are so dumb that they accepted saving an estimated 60,000 Australian lives through the implementation of state health policies, tried and tested by humankind for centuries, because they never questioned their governments.
Nah – probably more likely that you are a raving lunatic and the 98% of Australian society have a balanced and informed appreciation of stuff.
Oh yes – and as you conveniently ignore – most of the country for most of the pandemic was not in lock down – why was that – because we had prevented the spread of COVID. Whilst the Americans watched one million people die, we enjoyed a trip to the bar and our local restaurant without somebody else paying the price for our selfish individual freedoms.
The rest of your post is, frankly, stark raving bonkers. You can cherry pick histrionic and unrepresentative examples as much as you like.
It is very unfortunate that idiots like you enjoy the fruits of science and at the same time refute it. That you insult those who have worked to provide relief from a pandemic using technologies, which inexplicably, you rail against without any data or reason.
Incidentally, to become an Australian citizen you would need to have some idea of how the government works. Remarks about totalitarian state premiers indicate your blatant ignorance of our local laws and, crucially the legal checks and balances in the political system to prevent such. You clearly wouldn’t pass the questions presented as part of a citizenship test. Since you have changed your mind, you can breathe a sigh of relief since you would never have the embarrassment of failing the test and being adjudged too dumb to be allowed to stay.
And remember to drink the bleach, if you get sick.
The masks are nothing more than theater mandated by despicable politicians far more concerned with controlling our lives than with improving them.
Enough.
End this BS charade now.
@ RMF
Welcome to the side of light. You’ve taken a little longer than many of us to get here, but we’re happy for you that you’re here.
The mandating is ending. They just can’t announce it in advance because there would be madness between the announcement and expiry. People are already causing mask-related disturbances. Imagine how bad it would be if they announced the lift in advance. How could you convince someone that the mask is necessary for their safety and that of others, when you also say that the necessity ends in X number of days. There would be massive non-compliance and unrest.
@Platy — “The debate on managing COVID has been aired on this and other travel websites. Go back to the historical posts.”
Of course, I could say the exact same thing about my posts of yore, as well … so why haven’t we had this “battle” before? Where have you been, all this time?
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— “Clearly you have to be dumb to sit back and let one million people die, right?”
Apparently you’ve already forgotten about what I had just posted in my prior reply? What part of “I do *Not* support the ways that this pandemic was handled in USA” do you *Not* understand, to repeat yourself with this trite rhetorical question?
—————————————————————
— “I have already answered your questions repeatedly and extensively … when it comes to the Australian response to COVID … In the time you spent scribbling a rant, you could have learned something useful.”
Really? Where were those answers? Somehow I have yet to see your “factual” rebuttals? You *Do* understand that I do *Not* accept your personal opinions and self-proclamations as being necessarily “factual,” right? Just because you proclaim it so, does *Not,* therefore, make it true!
—————————————————————
— “I’m reading the scientific and medical literature, and, crucially, reviewing the models which our governments have used to inform their health policy, curious about their strengths and weaknesses. … whilst you are crying over toys in a kindergarten sandpit, I’m trying to work out if the grown-ups have got it right.”
So IFF you truly do as you claim, and are as “curious” as you claim, then *Why* have you *Not* given any responses to my questions to you about the *Fallacies* embedded in many of those sources to which you referred? Or are you merely masquerading with a pro-Establishment one-track mindset? Have you followed up on my questions to you about the effects of Negative VE from those jabs? Have you dived into the *Actual* limitations of those flawed “model(s)” from ICL (and IMHE) that ended up inflicting such UN-necessary pain and suffering worldwide? Is Neil Ferguson (and Christopher Murray) among your COVID-19 healthcare policy heroes?
Furthermore … “Why” do you feel that it’s necessary to engage in such extreme self-congratulatory narcissism? I often find that people who engage in such actions are actually *Not* as “smart” as they self-proclaim and use such ploys to hide that fact!
—————————————————————
— “Your comments about left wing bias in the ABC is thereby misplaced and idiotic. ABC operates under a charter which legally obliges political impartiality and is subject to continual Parliamentary scrutiny on such.”
ROFLMAO! Scrutiny does *Not* necessarily equate to Enforcement of *Actual* impartiality! ABC perpetrates just as much propaganda about select Progressive issues as the worst within USA! You seem to have already forgotten that I *Do* watch daily Australian news programs, so your efforts to cover up for ABC does *Not* fly with me (no pun intended)! Nice try, though …
—————————————————————
— “Australia did not engage in a zero COVID strategy.”
So what do you call it, when Australia isolates domestic states from each other with artificial interstate borders that were *Not* allowed to be crossed during your lockdowns? Locking down the country against incoming foreign travelers is generally accepted, but among domestic states within? And what about those quarantine internment camps? *Why* have those at all? Especially when so many were forced into those camps while testing *Negative* for COVID-19, to begin with? Don’t trust your own citizens to “do the right thing” on their own to self-isolate if / when they get infected? Let me remind you, once more, that I’ve seen interviews with those who were actually being held in those camps, so do *Not* even try to deny their existence! Actions speak louder than Words (and Denials)!
—————————————————————
— “I’m not sure it’s even worth entertaining your racist delusions about foreigners in Sweden.”
ROFLMAO! There you go, just as with every other Progressive — when you can *Not* accept actual *Facts* that contradict your ideology, you resort to that tired old playbook to make everything about Race and Politics! I merely stated a *Factual* statistic and *That* is considered “Racist”! Talk about Mass Formation Psychosis (MFP) — you must be a prime sufferer of that disease!
You really need to actually *Educate* yourself about the *Real* situation in Sweden and *Why* they have a higher death rate than some other countries, despite their government’s efforts to do better! Your *Naive* views about this issue do *Not* square with *Reality* over there!
—————————————————————
— “Of course, the USA has no universal health system, so has struggled predictably during the pandemic. … we all knew it wouldn’t cope having commercialised health without due regard for the poorer and weaker in its communities.”
Yet another *Naive* pusher for socialist “one size fits all” healthcare that does *Not* work in an environment that is as large and diverse as USA! If universal healthcare is so great in UK, Canada, Australia, etc,, then *Why* do those who are the most *Privileged* always “escape” to USA to get their best care? Did the people of USA end up paying anything for their COVID-19 tests and jabs (US$0.00) — yes … those jabs that were supposed to be “helpful” but, in reality, ended up harming so many that they were supposed to help?
Do all Australians still need to pay A$145 for a PCR test when wanting to cross into Queensland from another Australian state? Do you understand *Why* the PCR test is *Not* a reliable indicator of COVID-19 infections, yet somehow remains a “reference standard,” anyway?
—————————————————————
— “In Australia the state governments of both left and right of centre have broadly adopted similar health policies.”
So both sides implementing the *Wrong* healthcare policies to try and combat COVID-19 makes everything just hunky-dory and perfect? How totally stupid is that?
—————————————————————
— “You have a very misinformed concept about the extent of lockdowns in Australia. … I have already informed you that our local mortality rate was 1500 times less than Sweden’s during the alpha and delta waves and we enjoyed a largely unrestricted existence throughout most of the pandemic.”
Perhaps you need to go back and review what “restrictions” Sweden imposed, being mostly self-practiced, vs. those coercive mandates of other countries, including USA and Australia …
You keep bragging about Australia’s mortality rate, while *Naively* spouting off about how very bad Sweden’s rate is (based on *False* attributions), yet refuse to respond to my question to you about *Why* it is that Australia has a 5.6X worse mortality statistic than Taiwan, which is much denser in population and has a much smaller land area … ???
As for your “unrestricted” existence, what were all of those massive protests across Australia within major metro areas such as Melbourne and Sydney? Those were seen worldwide on international news broadcasts … complete with actual police brutality actions upon innocent citizens! Shouldn’t you be *Defunding* your police, based on such exhibits of overt violence against the populace?
—————————————————————
— “Why do I bother with such ignorance?! Maybe somebody smarter than you is reading this. Maybe I’m annoyed that dumb and stupid people like you misrepresent and disrespect science.”
ROFLMAO! Just more of your tired old attacks *Without* attendant *Facts* to back yourself up! Like I keep telling you — just because you proclaim it to be so, does *Not* therefore make it true!
—————————————————————
— “… conveniently ignore the fact that such a theory would need to apply to every country on the planet to be valid. So, we have mass delusion and conspiracy across 200 plus national governments, right?”
You *Are* totally *Naive* about such matters, huh? What do you expect, when most nations blindly follow the totally *Flawed* “guidelines” that emanated from W.H.O. and USA’s NIH/CDC/FDA about how to handle COVID-19? Do you expect that every country is going to do their own “due diligence” about such “guidelines”? Do they have the necessary resources to do so? Good grief!
—————————————————————
— “You choose to ignore that vaccine development is subject to a validation process, just like any other drug, … It is succulently hypocritical of some to decree COVID vaccinations and go running for the antibiotics when you get a chesty cough. Same process, but a unique stupidity in some when it comes to managing COVID.”
Wow! You *Are* totally *Naive* and *Gullible* on this topic! Astounding … coming from someone who purports to “know it all”!
Are you aware about the *Totally* corrupt and scandalous EUA approval process that the likes of Pfizer went through? And *Why* they wanted to *Cover Up,* for 75 years, their scandalous clinical trial data used to get their EUA? But which a sage judge *Denied* to Pfizer? So now we have some whistleblowers with conscience who have exposed just how ruthlessly *Corrupt* Pfizer had been? How about the serious scandals that also beset Moderna with their entire efforts, as well?
Are you aware about the *Totally* incestuous relationship that NIH/CDC/FDA have with Big Pharma companies? And how that has *Corrupted* drug approvals and restrictions? It appears as if you’re totally *Clueless* about these *Facts,* despite self-proclamations otherwise, so you will just blindly and willingly swallow the Kool-Aid that the Establishment pumps down your throat!
So what do you *Really* understand about this topic, anyway? I could inundate you with references to reports about this and so many other related topics, but you need to exercise your own advice and to do web searches on such issues to actually *Educate* yourself … perhaps you should use a different search engine than Google, though, since rampant censorship of *Real* facts have been proven to occur, with that one!
Wake up, dude!
—————————————————————
— “To bolster your idiotic belief set you now need to denigrate the vast majority of the nation to the scrap heap of fools. … They are so dumb that they accepted saving an estimated 60,000 Australian lives through the implementation of state health policies, tried and tested by humankind for centuries, because they never questioned their governments. … you are a raving lunatic and the 98% of Australian society have a balanced and informed appreciation of stuff.”
Wow! Even *More* proof that you *Are* totally *Naive* and *Gullible* on this topic!
But, first of all, I’m *Not* denigrating the populace of Australia, when I made my rhetorical conjecture about how they might have succumbed to Mass Formation Psychosis during this pandemic, since the majority of those in USA also suffer from this syndrome!
Back to the topic at hand — please tell me exactly *When,* in past history, we’ve gone and injected literally Billions in the World *Without* due diligence with safety studies of drugs that use totally *Novel* technologies such as experimental mRNA and vectored cellular genetic therapies that never qualified as traditional vaccines? Are you even aware that CDC went and jiggered the legacy definition of “vaccine” in order to facilitate EUA approvals for those experimental cellular genetic therapies? Are you aware about *Why* USA could *Not,* thereafter, permit adoptions of those world-proven safe and effective therapies such as Ivermectin and HCQ cocktails, which could have saved the lives of 95% of those who UN-necessarily died from COVID-19?
Under the guise of “saving time,” Pfizer intentionally decided to forego traditional animal experiments to verify safety and efficacy, because they already *Knew* about the hundreds of *Adverse* side-effects that their jabs would cause, as recently exposed by internal whistleblowers! Instead, they adopted the attitude of “see nothing, say nothing” went full bore to get their EUA through *Corrupt* practices and have now made Tens of US$Billions in profit on the backs of so many worldwide that now suffer those previously (internally) known side-effects! Does this sound like an ethical way to develop “life saving” drugs?
Wake up, dude!
—————————————————————
— “Whilst the Americans watched one million people die, we enjoyed a trip to the bar and our local restaurant without somebody else paying the price for our selfish individual freedoms.”
Wow! You’re not only *Naive* and *Gullible,* but also *Delusional* as well!
So what was it about Melbourne having gone through the *Longest* continuous lockdown of anywhere in the World, at 262 days, while having to suffer overt police brutality against its citizens, to boot? Did you forget, once again, that those police brutalities were broadcast worldwide on international news programs?
—————————————————————
— “That you insult those who have worked to provide relief from a pandemic using technologies, which inexplicably, you rail against without any data or reason.”
ROFLMAO! It is *You* who happens to be totally *Naive* and *Gullible* about those experimental technologies that have been deployed *Without* due diligence to safety and efficacy, unlike those other traditional *True* vaccines! Try and educate yourself better, so that you can become more *Properly* enlightened, versus merely spewing scripted Progressive Talking Points, as so many others like you are so wont to do, especially here in USA!
Also note that I *Will* rail against those in upper management positions, whether in government or corporations — but that does *Not* mean that I disrespect the many dedicated workers who did their best to create something that they thought might help mankind … they just got *Totally* misled by their upper management on their efforts!
—————————————————————
As for your insults about Australian citizenship, your *Arrogance* doesn’t even deserve an insult in return … I truly feel sorry for those Australians who also think like you do — such tragedy! 😛
Fortunately, as I can also observe on daily Australian news programs, there *Are* so many others who are actually *Normal* in their attitudes and outlooks, which I very much appreciate, so there might yet be hope for Australia! I certainly hope so, since Australia has a *Very Critical* role to play in southeast Asian security matters!
—————————————————————
Finally … I think that we can both agree on having engaged in the *Longest* posts in the history of this blog? 😛
@Strictly Facts
You accuse me of not answering your questions (which I have encountered many times before on these blogs), but when I refer you to the answers you refuse to go check them out. My factually articulated position is on the record with reference to the datasets, the models. Check it out if you want, or don’t, that’s your choice, but don’t make false claims that the answers are being avoided.
The USA has lost around one million people attributed to COVID. I read no practical solution from you, rather the paranoid ramblings of a conspiracy theorist who has to resort to the claim that virtually everyone on the planet is subject to mass delusion, and that everything and everybody is wrong, and only you have any insight.
Your paranoia forces you into an extreme distrust of my personal attributes and motives, with wild and unsubstantiated claims about me faking my intelligence, my presumed politics, my pro-establishment position, my unquestioning nature, etc.
That’s the problem with taking an extreme and unsubstantiated position – it draws you into ever more presumption and denialism, greater paranoia, a greater delusion about you alone being able to recognise and champion your *truth*, seeking petty reasons to invalidate anything that doesn’t fit with your world view.
You accuse the Australian ABC of political bias without evidence, but refuse to accept the level of scrutiny applied to it. You attempt to trivialise the process of such scrutiny with no data, whilst conveniently ignoring the reality that such level of scrutiny is not applied to the “right wing” media, giving it the freedom to entertain an evidently political agenda based on commercial self-interest.
You are so set in your limited mindset that you repeatedly miss the logic in the argument and the relevance of context. COVID hasn’t been politicised in Australia to anywhere near the extent as within the USA. To that extent, your personal (mis)conceptions of media bias in Australia are irrelevant.
Your (mis)conceptions about the Australian media are also irrelevant once I have told you that I read the original scientific and medical literature to inform my position. I have referred you to the modelling that has been used to inform government health policy having reviewed the datasets, but you are too busy feasting on the BS that you get fed by the right-wing media in the USA. Try reading the original source material, cut out the middle man, and political bias won’t be an issue for you.
You continue to promulgate the mythology about Australia’s response to COVID. I’ve referred to the parliamentary enquiry on the topic of “zero-COVID” which is extensively researched and reported in detail. Go find it and read or don’t. Again, it’s your choice to ignore information, which doesn’t fit your world view. Similarly, you can go and check out the election results of a number of state elections held during the pandemic. There are extensive data available online. No, it’s easier to be lazy and pollute your uncritical mind with the drivel presented on US right wing media outlets.
Now let’s illustrate just how ignorant you are about Australia and just how that entraps you in very dumb statements.
I already told you that Australia is a federation of states. Your claim of “artificial state borders” is utterly stupid. They exist, both legally and in physical reality. Now if you’d be bothered to read my previous posts on this and other popular travel blogs you would find extensive explanation on how health care policy is determined on a state-by-state basis. That is the legal reality. Each has its respective health care act. Like it or not, that’s how the system of governance is set up. Go and do the reading, do the work, do the research.
Movement has been restricted to varying degrees during the pandemic. That is how you limit the spread of the virus and avoid one million dead people. Once again I have written on these topics extensively on this and other travel blogs in an attempt to correct certain misconceptions, prejudices and misinformation on Australia and governments’ responses to COVID.
People continued to cross the Australian international border in their 10,000s per month during much of the pandemic. Incoming travellers used to be directed to enter hotel-based quarantine according to whatever health policy was operating in the state of arrival. These policies were progressively relaxed as vaccination rates met their targets. You can enter Australia with a negative COVID test meeting the defined standards and timeframes without a quarantine requirement (a lessor requirement than entering the US). Many other countries also had quarantine policies and some still do. If you test positive within Australia you are required to self-isolate – typically for 7 days.
What is this drivel about people being forced into “internment camps” – more stupidity from some right-wing media outlet in the USA? Aside from the state-based hotel quarantine system, the Australian Federal Government runs a facility at Howard Springs. This was used to accelerate the number of Australian residents who could return to the country during the pandemic through repatriation flights. I suggest that you use your favorite search engine to self-educate on this place because you seem to be very misguided. The facility was regarded as superior by some to hotel quarantine since it reduced the risk of viral transmission by offering separate digs in an open-air environment. There is no denialist agenda here – you have been brainwashed and refuse to do your own research. Per my original email – you are very confused and add to that evidently very gullible. Try self-educating before you accuse others of denialism.
Talking about denialism. You refuse to accept the data comparing the Australian and Swedish COVID mortality rates, which are starkly contrasting, rather make a new set of personal accusations that I am a “progressive” (whatever that means in your search for political scapegoats) and slave to some sort of ideology (whatever that might be in your deluded mind). You completely failed to grasp the logical argument – if any group is vulnerable, the government is obliged to take that into account, and that includes older people and any other group.
The point is that you cannot excuse a government’s failure on the basis that one group is more susceptible than another. Arguably, the national government in Australia itself failed to do as much as it could to protect vulnerable groups, notably older people, by stumbling in the roll out of vaccines and latterly booster shots to that group.
Incidentally, your US healthcare system scores very poorly (forgive the unintended pun) in recent rankings (the worst in 11 high income countries and at 37 in another list). According to Patients Beyond Borders 1.4 million Americans went overseas for medical treatment in 2017.
What matters herein is that Australia has managed COVID within its capacity (the policy was always “flatten the curve”) and ended up with a mortality rate that was 40 times less than the USA during the Alpha and Delta waves. And, as we know, the USA now has about one million dead.
To clarify in an attempt to divert you from further misinformation and misinterpretation. There is no requirement for a PCR test entering QLD – you can self-test with a rapid antigen test, if required. When there was, the charge of AUD145 payable to the path lab ended up being picked up by the national government (reference press briefing of Health Minister Hunt 24 November 2021) under an agreement made previously and months earlier between national and state governments.
I am aware of the limitations of PCR testing. If you have a better solution, something positive to offer rather than just sniping and complaining about everything, do tell us. A clue, a system or process doesn’t have to be perfect to be of value. Health ministers, doctors, etc., have to make decisions, they don’t have the luxury of sitting back, they have to act and then adapt.
Australians have overwhelmingly supported the health care policies adopted during the pandemic. Quite simply your personal views in denying the success of such are entirely out of step, predicated on many false assumptions, biased and incorrect information, and an incapacity to comprehend how science works, all amply demonstrated by the content of your posts.
People have a right to peaceful demonstration in Australia as part of the democratic fabric of the country. Not everyone agrees with governments all of the time. So what? The overwhelming majority has supported Australian national and state governments’ health policy based upon various polling and actual state elections.
A demonstration doesn’t make a health policy wrong. Aspects of policy have been hotly debated, which is an indicator of a vibrant democracy with due accountabilities on governments. The limits of governments have been subject to court challenge (something about a check and balance, upon what you stupidity refer to as totalitarian). When demonstrations become unruly the police have the unenviable task of keeping law and order Sometimes police over reach – of course they do. Just as sometimes demonstrators intimidate bystanders and smash stuff up (did your right-wing US media outlets show you both sides of the story? Probably not).
That doesn’t make the health policy wrong and it doesn’t necessarily mean that there is systemic problem with the law enforcement agencies. Any right-wing media outlet can spin a story for the uncritical and gullible.
You clearly simply won’t accept it when I report to you from QLD, first hand, that we have lived a near normal life with few restrictions for most of the pandemic. Well, it’s your choice to live in denial of inconvenient information.
In terms of your insane attachment to the theory of global mass delusion, strangely enough, the USA doesn’t run the planet. Thankfully, many countries have not followed the US example and its one million dead. They have been smarter. They have watched and learned from the fatal errors made and watched on in disbelief at the selfish behaviors of some in the US community.
And curiously enough, Pfizer isn’t the only available vaccine. Your conspiratorial obsessions now have to be extended to negate the whole pharmaceutical industry, the university research departments, the peer reviewers and publishers of academic and medical journals, the government and international bodies advising health policy, governments recommending or mandating vaccination and the front-line doctors, pharmacists and hospitals administering the vaccinations.
In any case, why do you expect the system to be perfect? Hint – it never is. So, having demonised everything and everyone on whatever excuses you’ve been fed, what are you left with? Presumably, a sweet nothing. You have nothing to offer. No solution. One million US dead.
Political leaders and health departments don’t have the luxury of doing nothing when faced with a pandemic. They have to make choices. Accept the system with its flaws and make decisions. Lock down or not, vaccinate or not. But some policy has to be implemented and done now. Otherwise, one million dead, or more.
Why do you presume that people who don’t see the world through your paranoid eyes are naïve and gullible? Maybe they have already noted the strengths and weaknesses in a situation or system and made a call. They haven’t gone into hiding or assumed the role of fatalistic evangelist. They’ve looked for a way to make the best of an imperfect world. They are way ahead of you.
You really need to read the medical literature and resist the temptation to be brainwashed by your right-wing media. If you think that Ivermectin is going to stop you getting severe COVID, think again, go and do the reading for yourself.
Well, I guess that argument will go nowhere anyway since you’ll deny the facts that are inconvenient to you and attach to delusions that meet your world view. What will it be this time – the researchers are biased or in the pockets of big pharma, or some such excuse?
Therein lies the trap for you – one of utter hypocrisy. You accept one treatment and deny another, although they both come from the same system, that is so flawed, in your opinion, that apparently you have no trust in it whatsoever. Do you have a problem with Novovax (a different technology to Pfizer and subject to animal trials? Or do you find some excuse to deny its efficacy?
Look, being cautious and critical can be a good thing. Identifying the flaws in a system can be enlightening. But the grown-ups have to take the next step and make a practical decision, accepting the flaws in the system and based upon the currently available data and the best models that can be mustered. Denying a role for vaccines because you think that can find some flaw in the process is dumb.
You characterise me as an uncritical proponent of the establishment who fakes their intelligence. I really don’t care what you think of me. But you make a very sad and telling error to miscast somebody in a pathetic attempt to shore up your hollow position.
Of course, I have done the due diligence before taking any vaccines. Luckily, I have extensive scientific training and relevant experience to draw upon. I have made those choices being aware of the flaws in the system. Along the way I’ve moved medical provider having clashed with my wife’s doctor about the safety of one of the vaccines. I’ve also studied closely the original data and research and models used to inform government and written to my local member of parliament where concerns about the integrity of the dataset and limitations of the underlying assumptions warranted. I’ve called him out for misrepresenting the data.
It’s not a perfect world, but decisions have to be made. Be critical by all means, see what you can find, but then be wise enough to work out how you can use that information for a positive outcome. When decision makers get it wrong, they end up with one million dead.
Here in Australia, we never had that problem. Whatever your misguided viewpoint, we are celebrating our success. The datasets prove that vaccines have played their part, whether you choose to deny the fact of the matter or not. Spending all of your time picking holes in everything and everybody is ultimately a fool’s errand. It’s not smart. It’s not scientific. It leads to snowballing deluded and paranoid positions, which you have amply demonstrated.
Yes it’s extended
@Platy — I will reply to your post some time this weekend, as it is tax filing time, over here, and I need to do some work on that first … so stay tuned! 🙂
@ StrictlyFacts
Don’t worry, mate, I’m busy too – been trying to book a last minute trip to SIN for next week and work out how to get COVID tested in the timeframe (our local testing centres are closed on a weekend) and then found out that I need to file entry documents at least 3 days in advance, so would miss my midweek meetings anyway! Grrrrr! Be well! First beer’s on me when I get to the USA, or on you when you get to Oz…be safe!
@platy —
I see … my corporate tax filings finally got completed by my corporate accountants yesterday (Saturday), but I do need to work on my family tax filings, next, so perhaps we should put a pause on our stimulating exchanges, as you’ve suggested. To tell you the truth, I haven’t even had a chance to review your latest post, yet, so I don’t even know, yet, about what to respond!
So, this being the case, I wish you the best with your pursuits to get prepared for travels to USA and elsewhere … have a great time and stay safe and healthy throughout!
It will be great fun to meet up someday and have beer (and / or wine) in person! 🙂