After flying between Dallas – Fort Worth and Detroit, a woman took to twitter to share her experience trying to use the first class lavatory as a passenger sitting at the front of the coach cabin. She’s not a frequent flyer, asked a flight attendant where the restroom was, and she says she was told to use the restroom in front.
However when she got there she felt scolded and was sent back to use the coach lavatory. And while she’s black, she reports that white passengers were allowed to use that lavatory without a scolding.
On Saturday July 23, 2022 My husband and I flew on @AmericanAir Flight AAL2753 it was our the first time using them. And we had the worst experience with customer service on the plan with rasial discrimination towards me.The flight attendance Ron P treated me as I was animal 😭😡
— Tina Talbert (@TinaTalbert2) July 26, 2022
So should she have been permitted to use the first class lavatory?
- I suspect race wasn’t a factor. While it’s not clear from her tweets whether the white passengers were seated in first class and used the first class lavatory or seated in coach, it seems they may have just used it while she actually asked where the lavatory was. In asking the question, she got an answer.
- But by American Airlines policy she should have been permitted to use the first class lavatory.
- I believe the correct answer, policy aside, is to use the lavatory in your ticketed cabin if possible; that first class passengers should have priority for the forward lav; that during drink service on a single aisle aircraft passengers blocked from walking back to the lavatory should be able to use the closest lav; and finally that in an emergency you do what you have to do.
American Airlines does not have a policy against coach passengers using the first class lavatory for domestic flights, or for flights departing the U.S. of course in the moment ignoring crewmember instructions not to leave your ticketed cabin isn’t likely to end well even when that order is contrary to company policy.
For instance United relaxed its ‘ticketed cabin only’ lavatory policy during the pandemic to promote social distancing and yet its social media team cited outdated policy to back up crew when a customer complained last year.
If you’re going to ask permission to use the first class lavatory as a coach passenger, don’t be surprised if you’re told to use the lavs in back. It’s often better to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission!
And this is just like the question of whether to use the lavatory while the seat belt sign is still on – a flight attendant will tell you the seat belt sign is on, many will interpret that as a no, when in fact it just means the crewmember can’t tell you that it is ok but generally isn’t going to stop you.
You know 1st class has two ply, whereas the lower class has one ply
/s
As part of American Airlines flight crew training, employees receive information on diversity, equity, and inclusion. Most flight attendants know that the color of passenger poop is similar and is not determined by passenger skin color. Accordingly, it should not matter to American Airlines flight crews if their valued passengers take a dump utilizing the first-class or the coach-class toilet as the lavatories connect to the same aircraft fecal waste discharge plumbing.
Farmers growing crops know that passenger poop is valuable. However, the vexing issue of crapping in the wrong cabin class on an American Airlines flight may be solved using the American Airlines AAdvantage program. For example, to help prevent cross-cabin-class crappers, passenger poop can be incentivized and monetized with an award of 1,000 bonus AAdvantage miles per flush if a passenger poops in their ticketed cabin. AAdvantage miles can be added to passenger accounts by scanning your boarding pass on the lavatory door reader before entering the aircraft lavatory. This American Airlines AAdvantage passenger poop program is void where prohibited and subject to working inflight toilets.
[removed]
Too much is unknown or unclear to comment much on this situation. (It appears that the lady asked an attendant in coach and was told to use the FC lav.) I’m a regular flyer on AA and other airlines and often hear announcements on AA domestic and international flights about using the lav in your cabin. On AA it doesn’t make much difference because there aren’t any amenities in business class lavs on domestic or international flights.
Since racists usually don’t wear a sign identifying themselves (many racists don’t even realize it), the motive behind people’s actions must be inferred form the circumstances. There could be legitimate reasons for actions that are unknown.
When I’m in coach, I usually use that lav unless there are carts in the aisle. Going to the back of the plane is a longer walk which I like.
I don’t know how you allow people like Amy Fischer to post. It degrades this site and is very sad.
As for the stories like this, people should ask what they want and ask for the official policy is in order to resolve these issues otherwise, these tweet(s)? kind of don’t make any sense.
On domestic flights – all lavs are open to all no matter their cabin class especially if they are backed up.
I used the J lav on domestic UAL flight while ticketed in Y two weeks ago. Rear lavs were occupied and (I believe if I remember correctly?) cart was in the aisle and J lav was free, so I used it. After I sat back down FA asked me to please use the one in coach. I asked for forgiveness and there was that. Obviously we were near the end of the flight so not an issue, but if I had to use it again I would have complied with the instruction.
If you cant spell racial – you cant play the race card.
Play your rase card somewhere else.
Duh, on every flight it’s is clearly announced that you are required to use the lav in your section. So this wasn’t a racist move on the FA’s part, it was discrimination aimed at the deaf or those unable to understand English. This sounds like discrimination towards the stupid. Or stubborn. Move on, lady … and next time pay attention.
1. Refuse to check in your bags.
2. Deny you ever had any checked bags.
I can never take seriously those people who rage about the injustices done upon them when their grammar and spelling show ignorance (at best) and stupidity (at worst).
Oops, my earlier comment was meant for the AA checked bags article.
Amy, Why don’t you got back to your home Country racist . And get in the kitchen and zip it
@ Amy — Yes, people like you, in the bottom 13th percentile of intelligence, do seem to cause 90% of all problems.
Shameful white privilege across the board in the comments above me.
White people have not experienced discrimination and don’t know what it feels like. Then, they go on to dismiss a complaint of discrimination from a person of color who experiences discrimination every day. This is appalling lack of empathy. White people, please do better.
Gary Leff absolute SHAME on you for your first claim where you suspect race is not a factor. Your white privilege is NAKED. I suspect race WAS a factor. Why, because even though I am white, I know plenty of people of color who share with me these appalling experiences of prejudice day in day out. The passenger’s story is completely credible given the facts, so to suspect otherwise is demeaning and appalling.
Absolute shame on you Gary Leff, your CFO position clearly didn’t do you much good in absolving you of any of your white privilege. And to allow Amy Fischer to keep commenting here when we damn know you erase and ban commenters for things that are not bigoted but simply unappealing to you…
Gary Leff, let me ask you point blank. Are you a racist?
@Olaf U. Fokker-Sergei
do you expect people to take you seriously with your name, a stupid attempt at being funny….
and no, this was not about race, this is about someone with a chip on their shoulder looking for 15 seconds of fame
now GFYOURSELF
While I’m no longer shocked by the racist comments posted here, I am still thoroughly disgusted. People like Amy Fischer and Joanie Adams should crawl back under the rocks from which they slithered. What disgusting (sub)humans. F*cking a$$holes.
Also to all those commenting on Tina’s illiteracy, I say first that she has the same rights as anyone else, and her illiteracy is a product of this country’s abysmal education system.
Done preaching (for now).
Amy Fischer is idealizing genocide.
If you allow her this forum for her psycho dribble Gary, you are complicit in evil.
It appears that the lady’s critics in the comments above didn’t actually read the post and just jumped to the conclusion that race couldn’t possibly be a factor. The woman said a FA in coach told her that she could use the FC lav, and Gary says that she should have been allowed to use the FC lav by AA policy. While that is not conclusive proof that racism was involved, it raises questions that we lack sufficient information to answer.
People like Amy, Kimmie, Bob and Joanie might a swell wear a sign. I doubt they talk like that at work and pretend to be unbiased. Is it any wonder why the vast majority of Blacks don’t support Trump and wacked-out MAGA world?
If AA policy is that passengers are not restricted to using the lavs in their cabin, it is puzzling that some AA flights have announcements to the contrary.
Agree, why should people be shamed or blocked from using any restroom in the plane if this is within the airline’s policy?
@Olaf U. Fokker-Sergei – Completely untrue. White people also face discrimination, as do minorities – just look at the Democrats.
There are two issues. The first is clear. There is often an announcement to use the lav in compartment where you are seated. It has been this way for the 50+ years I have been flying. Often there is a curtain that is pulled to separate the two areas to reinforce this. However, there are circumstances when economy passengers use the first class lav – and I have not witnessed staff saying anything when there was a reason. (Back lavs full, cart in the aisle. etc.)
The second issue is more nuanced. On one of my first flights (I was a student), I walked to the nearest lav from my economy seat – which was in first/business class. The flight attendant informed me that I should use the lav in the rear of the aircraft, because I had a seat in economy. I did NOT think that the comment was made to humiliate me because I was a very young student, or because the flight attendant was racist and was made because of my race, or because of my gender, or any other reason other than because I had a seat in economy, and I was trying to use the lav in in the first-class section of the aircraft. This is precisely what the flight attendant told me. I did not write down the flight attendant’s name or write a letter of complaint. I also did not open a brand-new twitter account and post to it 4 times. Public shaming did not exist back then. I agree with Gary.
This is what a oppression delusion looks like.
@Olaf U. Fokker-Sergei
You suffer from a persecution complex. People who claim “white privelge” use that as an excuse for their failures and suffer from success envy. You’re not oppressed you’re just an a-hole.
@john your victim complex is showing again.
Nobody cares what you think about anything.
Everything is racist!!
Copied from Forbes:
So, why do flight attendants, even if using their own discretion, enforce lavatory class restrictions? For one, there are security concerns, such as a congregation of passengers forming near the cockpit door, which is especially problematic if a pilot wishes to exit. Second, the policy encourages passengers to use the mid or rear lavatories to prevent interruption to food and beverage service, which often starts at the forward area of the aircraft and is ongoing during the flight for the first-class cabin. Third, there’s also a concern for the convenience of first-class passengers, who are generally airline loyalists or paid a premium for their seats, and thus are extra important to the airline’s bottom line. But while there are valid reasons for class restrictions, their fairness is questioned when coach lavatories are unavailable.
Regardless of official stated policy, coach pax using first/business lavs is discouraged because the perks of paying more includes sharing the lav with fewer people.
Maybe this is because I wear my headphones too much or tune out the announcements in the expectation that the speaker will be once again hawking unwanted credit cards to me, but despite flying American hundreds of times from & to DFW, where I’m based, I do not recall an announcement telling PAX they are to use the lavatory in the cabin where they are seated. Is that really a thing ?
@Tizzette – I fly first more than coach, and I personally have never felt that exclusive use of the forward lav is something I’m buying with my first class fare. Separately, though, there is the safety concern that we’ve all lived with since 9-11 with respect to passengers awaiting use of the forward lav gathering by the cabin door. On many occasions I have seen or heard flight attendants ask folks standing around the forward lav or making their way up there to return to their seats on that basis.
@ Gary
Buddy, one last plea for decency and common sense.
We now know specifically to which racial “stereotype” that @ Amy Fisher directs her ignorance hatred. It’s black people. Her racism is utterly and plainly exposed by her comment. Shame on her.
How can you possibly justify providing a platform for such incitement of hatred – what possible excuse to let such commentary pass unfiltered?
If you are uncertain how to determine non discriminatory guidelines to manage and moderate your blog, you might refer to the Non Discrimination Policy of George Mason University (University Policy Number 1201) for direction on such matters. To note that if you are or have been an employee at such institution you would have received mandatory training.
It’s not hard to recognise vile comments.
It surely can’t take more than few minutes to identify them and weed them out (people will soon get the message and move on).
If you are spread too thin to find the time for basic moderation, then maybe you need to re-assess your priorities.
I do not infer that you are yourself racist, Gary, but I note that at least one poster is starting to doubt your credentials in that regard. Maybe it’s time for action. Several comments herein indicate readers are increasingly uncomfortable on the matter.
That aside, the decision to publish this particular article, given its topic, could be viewed as further shite stirring – a play to the basest cohort within your audience.
Your blog – your choice.
@platy – the comment was posted while I was in meetings, what makes you think I saw and approved it? When I returned to the comments I removed it.
@ Amy Fischer
“Imagine how beautiful things could be without this cancerous group’
Strangely enough my family has set up a fund for a girl from “this cancerous group”, to ensure she gets the same access to educational opportunities as anybody else.
The family originally comes from Kenya. The reason they have any connection to a “western” country is as a result of colonial rule (in this case the British) over the last 250 years or so aimed at financial self interest, strategic protection of the Empire’s interests in India and Egypt, and levying of tax. Kenya became a republic in 1964.
The British helped themselves to an estimated 3.4 million Africans and enslaved them.
A little more history for you to ponder (quoting a BBC article):
“…The British government spent £20 million, a staggering 40% of its budget in 1833, to buy freedom for slaves. That’s equivalent to approximately £20bn today, making it one of the biggest ever government bailouts. The cost was so high, the vast loans the government took out to fund it were only just paid off in 2015… the money didn’t go to the slaves, but to their owners…the British taxpayer, until five years ago, was paying off debts that the government racked up in order to compensate British slave owners for their loss of ‘property’. Records show that …Prime Minister William Gladstone…helped his father claim for £106,769. That’s a payment of around £83 million in today’s money, to just a single family.”
And estimated 10 to 12 million slaves in total were taken from African nations across the Atlantic.
So that’s the back drop – countries subjected to colonial rule, an extensive slave trade and an extraction of wealth from the colonised country to the mother country.
Those in the US can fill in that side of the story to Amy’s wanton ignorance.
When I visit the sponsors girls’ mother during my trips back to the UK, I’ll take her out in London so we can talk about her daughter’s process and needs. I can sense the bristling of the racist scum at the sight of her when we walk into a restaurant together. But they don’t know what I know – this person is decent, loving, caring , intelligent and articulate. She is prominent figure in an International charity supporting women with AIDS. She cares passionately about her daughter. she lives ne the constant shadow of HIV herself thanks to an abusive partner. I am proud to call her a friend. I am proud of my father for providing a scholarship fund for her daughter.
But people like you, Amy Fisher, are the very opposite. Where she is decent you are vile, where she is loving you are filled with hatred, where she is caring you are selfish, where she is intelligent you are ignorant, where she is articulate you are abusive. You represent the worst of your country and humanity.
@ Gary
Well done, Gary! (FWIW I’m not claiming that you “saw and approved it”).
(Please do feel free to delete my subsequent response to that post, if you deem it out of context).
Does anyone think that maybe Amy made such vile comments just to incite everyone?
I suggest that email verification and no handles allowed. That would help.
I like my handle.
The Race Card
Don’t leave home without it
Just like that chick in Russia
“I’m innocent” “I’m innocent”
Oops, no I’m not.
hummmm…..her Twitter account was just created July 2022?
@Kroggeri, I’m glad you like my victim complex. I’ve been working on it. One day I hope to be as big a victim as cry baby Trump and his MAGA maniacs.
That racism exists on the ground would be followed by racism not existing in the sky would be best classified as stupid thinking.
I’ve seen situations where European-American males and females in economy class were allowed to use the forward lavatory, but immediately thereafter “brown” and “black” males, sometimes with a child in tow, were told to go in the back by the very same FAs. To rule out all such situations from being racist is akin to ruling out that the earth rotates around the sun.
When a kid has to ask a parent why multiple people behind them were allowed without issue to use the forward lavatory on an AA or UA flight while the non-European or mixed-European child and/or child’s non-European parent is actively turned away from doing the same thing, what would the corporate apologist and racist apologists tell the child if asked “why?”?
“Life isn’t fair, love the discrimination.”?
There are racist people, and some airline FAs behave in more racist ways than they may even consciously recognize in their own actions.
@GUWonder
I know this is nit picky but the Earth REVOLVES around the Sun. It ROTATES around its axis.
Black women are the most entitled people on the planet and subscribe a special kind of persecution complex.
@Koggerj
= a unit powered by an “incel” chip, with very low processing power, very little memory, and buggy software.
Common sense aside (seems to be in short supply) it only makes sense that one would use the lavatory in your ticketed cabin unless it is an emergency. Often times I have observed busy body types transiting up and down the aisle to be noticed (as if they are somebody) or just being curious about “What makes First Class so special and worth the extra money”. I have even seen fellow FC pax get annoyed with FAs when they tell a FC passenger they have to remain seated when one of the Flight Deck Crew need to use the lavatory as if it is a real inconvenience. Rules are in place for a reason and some people are inclined to challenge any/all rules if given the slightest leeway. Summation, Stay in Your Lane….If You Purchase a Coach seat, use the Coach Cabin. Period.
In her tweet she said it was her first time flying AA, so she probably has no idea about the rules or customs to use the lavaratory in the class where you’re sitting. Since she was sitting in the front of economy class, the forward lavratories were obviously much closer, plus a flight attendant said she could use them. The passenger story is credible, and she did nothing wrong.