You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
The norms have changed but passengers don’t always know this in advance, which makes for a stark clash of expectations. One United passenger was shocked to learn that nobody would be permitted to spread out into wide open seats on a recent flight … unless they had their “payment method handy.”
@united insisting people either pay for upgrades or stay packed in like sardines on flights with plenty of open seats is poor customer service. pic.twitter.com/MoRW9PD5US
— Ben Houg (@benhoug) November 25, 2024
They made an announcement saying “if you wanted to move seats, have your payment method handy.”
— Ben Houg (@benhoug) November 25, 2024
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating, for a little while longer! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative. Their plane, their rules, and they can change the rules even after many decades of forming passenger expectations.
Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for. It is against the airline rules, not theft, but it is still not allowed if a flight attendant decides not to allow it.
“Extra legroom seats” nowadays generally come with service benefits, like free alcoholic drinks or enhanced snacks (Gary makes this same post every few months, but always ignores this key point – which I strange, because we all know he is aware of it). So while it is not the same as switching to an empty first class seat, the fact is that these seats do cost a premium, and airlines aren’t going to just give them away for free.
As someone who has to pay $100’s of dollars out of my own pocket to upgrade to more legroom every time I fly as my company does not pay for or reimburse for premium seats; I appreciate that the airline is enforcing this policy.
Can’t see this argument because you stated at the top that it is reasonable that people can’t just self-upgrade to biz class. Yes, the upgrade between regular economy and extra legroom economy is a pretty minor upgrade compared to the difference in upgrading to biz, but there _is_ a difference, and the argument that “The airline loses nothing once the plane takes off” could just as easily apply to a self-upgrade to biz. Particularly on a mostly empty biz cabin. Now, as it turns out, UA never has empty biz because of every Premier getting a free upgrade, but other airlines do.
However, if you do support “grab any extra legroom seat that’s free” it perhaps should only apply to truly empty rows. If I paid to sit up there and have an empty row, with the nice perk of looking out the window but also having aisle access, I’m not wanting somebody who didn’t pay to sit up there taking that away. And obviously you would not suggest that, if there’s an empty middle up front, that anybody can take that since it’s better than their packed middle in the back but seriously impinges on the comfort of the people who had that empty middle. (Some airlines sell empty middle rights, but UA does not.)
So it all gets pretty complex and I can see airlines wanting to increase the value of a set in the extra legroom section, and not wanting to deal with the hassles of people moving. (It also can require aircraft rebalancing if people move many rows.)
What about sitting in premium coach on AA international flight.
I had one seat next to 3 empty seats. I planned to take a nap. But some economy guy showed up and took the aisle seat.
Economy plus is not just another seat, it’s a separate class. You don’t get economy plus from ‘luck of the draw’. An upgrade because of status is also not free. You have to spend a lot of money to attain status. Status is not free.
@Gary, you’ve argued this before and are still wrong:
“. . . claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.”
Taking a seat next to me, in front of me (and reclining), or behind me (and pushing your knees in my back) makes my flight worse. Yes, my premium area might be at capacity and I’d have those neighbors anyway. But, to me, part of the deal is if the only middle seat in a 2-3-2 PE (or Y+ on 767) section next to me was unsold, why should someone who paid for a Y middle seat be able to reduce my comfort (and the other person in that “3” section) just because it’s empty.? If a person assigned to that seat sat there and told me they upgraded to at check-in for $5, I’d congratulate them on snagging a bargain. By your logic, should the premium club (D1, Flagship, Polaris) let those only entitled to the “regular” in when the premium club is slow?
If they allowed people to move up to economy plus for free on a given flight, wouldn’t that deter those people from potentially upgrading to economy plus on a future flight (via actually paying for it)? There’s an opportunity cost that would be lost, because these people might buy regular economy again in the future, in “hopes” to just be able to make another mad dash at an open extra-legroom seat. I can definitely see why United doesn’t allow people to move for free. It could eat into future flight revenue. And besides, it gives the people who actually paid for economy plus a bad impression. If I knew I could get the seat for free onboard, I would feel pretty silly for paying full price before the flight…. It’s about protecting the value of the service that the actual paying passengers paid for.
You often say that people in the better seats “aren’t harmed” by someone who hasn’t paid grabbing a free upgrade. This is simply untrue.
When I pay that extra money, there is a greater chance that I will be adjacent to an empty seat, since fewer people are willing to pay for the upgrade. This is a huge benefit. Most of us love it when the seat next door is empty.
However, if airlines do not enforce policies against seat switching, then I will ALWAYS have someone next to me, since someone will always grab the free upgrade. So I go from maybe having an empty seat to never having one.
So because it is a “victimless” crime, or even better it’s passive resistance to the Evil Corporation you chose to engage with; therefore it’s okay to take something not belonging to you?
When I was in college some friends and I would sneak onto the local country club golf course to play for free. We figured nobody knows all the members anyway; we only chose times the course was uncrowded; we were polite to anyone we came into contact with; and didn’t put the members to any expense or deprive them of any income. All was fine until one day a member called the sheriff.
Clickbait
He mean Yugo but he ain’t know it
This is United we’re talking about. It’s more like paying for a 6th-owner Nissan Altima, and driving off with a 6th-owner Nissan Altima with clip-on Autozone spinners.
Just another reason flying is no longer enjoyable. Too many self entitled passengers trying to game the system.
Just sit in the seat you paid for, or stay home!
If some seat shifter is allowed to move into an empty seat by me, I do lose something. My comfort. I bothered to select my seat in advance and maybe paid extra for it. The seat shifter most likely bought the lowest class of fare possible that does not come with seat selection and that is why they are sitting in a middle seat in back. They deserve what they paid for. I have known people to move out of their own group’s row of three into some other row’s empty middle just to give his companions more comfort. Sit in your own assigned seat.
I usually pay for an upgrade to Economy Plus but I also reserve a window seat where at the time of reservation/seat selection, the other 2 seats beside me are empty. This gives me room to spread out and sometime even try to sleep laying down. If the strictly Economy passengers were freely allowed to switch seat after take-off then for sure some fat middle seat dude would come grab the aisle seat in my row or worse yet he and him screaming kid would take both seats for the extra legroom. I pay extra and select specific a specific seat and a free for after after the door closes is unfair to those of us who pay more and plan ahead.
It’s amazing, but certain people still can’t grasp the argument. Gary is absolutely correct, there’s no loss to the airline or to those people who may have paid for the comparable seat taken by those moving to an empty spot.
@mike P,
Exactly. I encourage people to read the contract of carriage and see what buying a seat does and does not guarantee you. Smh
Just another symptom of America going down the toliet.
Everything is nickel and dime, everything is bare minimum, and unless you’re a member of the Elite you’re going to be treated like cattle or worse.
Seriously the first country to have a bill of rights like America but with more enforcement of those rights along with a right to basic dignity will be the World’s next Superpower.
Although granted Euro carriers are going down that path too.
The whole ‘economy plus’ thing is stupid. First there were two classes (First class and coach). Thn there were three (First, Business, and Coach). Now we have First, Business, Economy+, and Economy. What’s next? No seat at all, sit on the floor? Airlines made money in the days when there was just first class and coach, and people weren’t packed in like sardines. They should be able to figure out how to do the same today.
The whole ‘economy plus’ thing is stupid. First there were two classes (First class and coach). Thn there were three (First, Business, and Coach). Now we have First, Business, Economy+, and Economy. What’s next? No seat at all, sit on the floor? Airlines made money in the days when there was just first class and coach, and people weren’t packed in like sardines. They should be able to figure out how to do the same today.
No. Letting people move to paid seats does take away from those who actually paid and may enjoy having an open seat next to them. They also shouldn’t receive the free alcohol or other perks that come with it. If they don’t pay they need to stay in their assigned seats. Also, flight attendants have enough to deal with and shouldn’t have to be seat police or seat brokers.
The majority of those who comment disagree with Gary. I agree with them. I am challenged to sympathize with those who want to game the system for a personal advantage that is not equitably distributed among all who could benefit. As example, boarding group jumpers. In the case of moving up to a costlier open seat after rake off, what determines who gets that seat? The fastest, strongest or meanest person? Maybe have a wrestle off in the aisle? At a MLB game you can be sure that you will not be allowed to move from the bleachers to an open box seat. Same at the theater. You get what you pay for.
LMAO. Nobody has provided any good arguments against Gary, every single one boils down to “it would hurt my feelings!!! >:(“
I don’t see anything wrong with what the airlines are doing. If people are allowed to move as soon as the flight door is closed people will be ready to take the comfort seats. I see this argument is for the sake of discussion. If I buy a NBA ticket at 400 level they would let me go sit at 100 level just because it is empty.
Trains in Portugal have open seating. When crossing over to Spain, they have assigned seating. A Portuguese passenger and I were the only ones in the entire car yet had to sit 14 rows apart. Spain also has assigned seats in theaters. If you try to move, they will remove you. Each company/country believes it is logical and fair.
Yet another reason I drive instead of fly anywhere i can.
The answer is less seats and more leg room for everyone treat people better instead of sardines
I’m sorry author but your attitude is very entitled. If you want the legroom pay for the legroom. If you want a cheaper fare your derrière should sit in the rear. Empty seats in economy plus or not. You sit in the seat you paid for.
funny stuff,,,,,, a person in 1st class that was going to steal the use of the extra seat is upset that someone else beats them to it , that shows you don’t need class to sit in 1st class…. lol
View from the Wing seems to have gotten much more snarky recently. The writer(s) seem to be increasingly anti-airline. It isn’t what I read these articles for. I’m looking for tips on frequent flier mile upgrades, perks on one airline versus another, and other tips to make flying more enjoyable. I don’t think this site will get anywhere bad-mouthing airlines. The comments on this article mostly support the airline and refute the author’s assertion. Economy passengers (and all other ticket class passengers) know what they paid for. Whining about empty seats isn’t going to change that. Pictures could have been during early boarding rather than in-flight.
If a person pays for extra leg room and has an empty seat next to them they should be able to enjoy that empty seat rather than have a person who chose not to pay and is unhappy with not having an extra seat next to them. If the latter had an empty seat next to them they probably would not move
Totally agree with United… unclear why the author thinks anyone should be able to move to a different class of seats… from economy to economy plus. When at Yankee stadium I cannot go from my upper deck seats to field level just because there are empty seats. Am I missing something with his arguments?
So I guess what Gary is ok with Hunger Games breaking out when the door closes. What does the airline do when the mob all scrambles for the good seats? Only the strongest survive? By announcing and charging for the seats, you prevent that mess from breaking out.
United Airlines has a policy to protect passengers who have paid for their upgrade. If they don’t draw a line and enforce it, how is that fair for those who have paid? I’m certain that some of the people who can afford to pay and upgrade now weren’t always in that position to do so, but over time and a lot of miles, they were able to reach that level. United is not a city bus, intercity bus, or no-frills low-cost air carrier. United Is a great airline with very nice aircraft interiors and highly qualified flight attendants who are safety professionals.
Gary, your argument doesn’t hold water. By your reasoning, if a customer walks into a grocery store to buy a 16 oz. steak and notices that a 32 oz. steak for a higher price has the same sell by date, and it happens to be that date and the store is closing; they cannot purchase the 16 oz. steak and walk out with the 32 oz. steak instead just because the store will have to throw it away — even though the store can no longer sell it. It just doesn’t work that way.
Beat the Economy Class passengers back to the tail of the plane! Charge them to use the restrooms! Make them pay for water!
United Airlines has a policy to protect passengers who have paid for their seat/upgrade. If they don’t draw a line and enforce it, It’s not fair to their customers who have paid. I’m certain that some of the people who can afford to pay/upgrade weren’t always in that position to do so, but over time and a lot of ticket purchases = air miles, they were able to reach that level. United Is a great airline with very nice aircraft interiors and highly qualified flight attendants who are safety professionals.
It’s the 3rd inning, I’m seated in the nose bleed section of a MLB game,…
I guess it would be okay for me to move down and take an open seat behind home plate. As some of you say,…no loss to stadium revenue, no loss to those who paid to sit behind home plate.
Same thing for an NBA game, … 2nd qtr, I’ll just relocate to an open courtside seat.
Oh!…the movie started 15 minutes ago,…the theatre should just open its doors to anyone who would like to sit an open seat and watch the movie for free!….. I don’t F’ing think so.
This behavior is nothing more than “Entitlement Bullshit!”
You want something,…pay for it!
This post smells like ….. Oh yes, entitlement. Would you like some cheese with your whine, Sir ?
Wow, glad I don’t have to travel for business anymore, the “friendly skies” are long gone.
So many comments focused on the “corporate greed” of the situation.
Absolutely no consideration for their fellow passengers, however.
When I booked my flight, I thought ahead and booked an aisle seat, preferably in an exit row, and I payed a little extra.
If you don’t do that and expect to be able to move to wherever you feel like, then you don’t deserve to move. Sit in the seat you booked, and shut up
Flight Attendants don’t “decide “ whether or not to enforce company policy. They inform passengers of the rules the company (United Airlines) makes. Don’t make our jobs more difficult.
Gary is wrong and United is right on this one, for a myriad of reasons stated by many other commenters.
Also, there is a safety/security argument for why people should be in their assigned seat – and my understanding is that Southwest’s switch to assigned seating is partly for this reason. Both the airline and the TSA want passengers in the seats assigned to them so that in the event of an accident or incident, they know who is or was in each seat. I think that’s another good reason for discouraging self-help seat changes.
To Mark, yes we do. it’s call the passenger manifest and we use it all the time to find our ” special” passerngers. Which Btw I’m going to use this forum to do a PSA.
If you order a special meal or service, DON’T switch seats without telling the flight attendants. More than a few times someone will say ” yes , its mine” and the person who really ordered it gets nothing. Very selfish!.
Given the deterioration of passenger behavior over the last 6 years, letting people self-upgrade in a free-for-all fashion is just asking for chaos.
Unbelievable! I say it all the time, most people don’t understand how to debate. There are many posts on this thread where people commit the straw man fallacy or, if you prefer they’re offering a red herring. Gary is arguing the economic issue, not the moral issue. It’s clear that the airline isn’t suffering any economic loss. They aren’t going to sell the seat at this point. Now, if you want to take the position that it’s immoral for some to improve their seating arrangement, we can have that debate.
Finally, the argument that someone who loses the “comfort” of an empty seat has a valid position, well, that’s nonsense. They never paid for anything beyond their own seat. No payment, no loss.
“Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything”.. So why stop spreading out in economy? Why not just take any open seat in business class or first class? The airline would be losing nothing (except maybe alcoholic beverages consumed). Make it a free for all. Pay for the seat you want, or stay in the sea you get. No one is entitled to anything else.
OMG, all these “I don’t want anyone to take the empty seat next to me” commenters don’t see the irony in the fact that they did not pay for those empty seats either, and as such, should not feel entitled to that extra room.
I don’t think there is any argument here at all and this goes for anything that you are suppose to pay for. If you don’t pay for it, you don’t get it. Full stop, no discussion on who is harmed, or anything. You don’t pay, you don’t get. Period.