A surprising amount of attention is going to a 78 year old Qantas passenger who was bumped from business class to economy on a flight from Melbourne to Adelaide in Australia.
The reason is being called “bizarre” and the man is demanding “change” even refusing the 5,000 frequent flyer miles offered as compensation, but the reason follows the airline’s adhesion contract and its labor contracts. The seat was needed to transport a pilot, and under the airline’s pilot agreement they had to put the employee up front since they’d be operating a flight on arrival in Adelaide.
About an hour before seeing this story I corresponded with a reader who was downgraded from business class by Air France, and it seemed worth highlighting several reasons that you may be booked in business class – and still get stuck flying coach.
- An airline may oversell business class (though many airlines do not). If more people show up than expected, someone will need to be downgraded.
- An airline may downgauge a flight, replacing an aircraft with a larger business class cabin, substituting one with a small business class cabin. If there are more business passengers than seats on the new plane, someone will need to be downgraded.
- An airline may need to transport a pilot to the city you’re flying to, so that they can operate a flight on arrival. A change in pilot contracts at major U.S. airlines give pilots priority for ‘deadheaading’ trips up front even on domestic flights. Some airlines, though, will even bump a paying passenger to transport a pilot.
- Your flight may cancel, and there won’t be premium cabin seats available on alternate itineraries.
The reader booked on Air France was traveling on a paid transatlantic ticket, while his wife was traveling using points. The airline substituted a plane with a smaller business class cabin, and they found themselves with too few seats relative to booked passengers up front. The good news I took away from this though is Air France didn’t prioritize a paid passenger over one using points as is often the case.
Many airlines will prioritize their own elite frequent flyers to remain in a cabin, followed by those on the highest fares, with award trips at the bottom. But redemptions are supposed to be the reward for loyalty and in my view should probably have higher priority than revenue on a mere single trip (that reward represents revenue from numerous trips, or partner transactions).
Generally speaking involuntary denied boarding rules apply not just to when an airline cannot accommodate you on board, but also to when they cannot accommodate you in your ticketed class of service. You may wish to take a different flight rather than travel coach (even if it isn’t right away) or you might prefer to take your original flight and reach your destination faster. Either way, compensation is due.
Rules in the U.S. and Europe are both better than in Australia where consumers aren’t entitled to more than a partial refund.
Unfortunately someone is using your email to scam people. I keep receiving an email telling me I have postage due on a package I have ordered, this supposedly from you but have not opened it. Just letting you know.
I have had flight cancellations on AF TATL. When paid Affaires, they’ve been willing to move me to another Skyteam flight. On mileage awards, they’ve moved me to business class on other AF/KLM flights with connections. There have been plenty of alternatives to avoid downgrades in my cases.
You left one other out, they may add another pilot to the flight so that the crew has more total time available for the flight, then that would require a first class seat in planes that don’t have a dedicated crew rest facility, this would be because of Federal Aviation Regulations in the US.
Lufthansa tried to downgrade me from Business to Premium Economy because the monitor was not working. I told them I did not care about the monitor and asked for my seat back. After giving me some attitude and telling me ‘It is not up to you’ I had to fight to get it.
Eventually I switched with a nice gentleman who wanted to seat next to his wife and he did not mind about the monitor either.
That was on a Frankfurt-SF route.
I think it would be nice if you could also have a post about the individual airlines compensation for such downgrades. ie: Delta I think is $200 voucher plus fare difference? I know at one time when AA had their Y-up fares, it was no compensation because you “didn’t really buy First class, it was an upgrade”.
Happened to my wife and I on our American Airlines flight to Hawaii for our honeymoon. Got to Dallas and was told we were downgraded. Worst part about it, their “internal calculations” that nobody is privy to said the difference in fair from a lay flat first seat to economy was only $150 per ticket. They also gave us a $100 voucher as an apology. It was truly a horrible event and after many hours on the phone with tens of different people, they said they couldn’t do anything more. Until they are held to higher standards AND have tangible consequences, they will continue these practices.
We were returning to the States, however, if you thought we hadn’t had enough fun and excitement visiting family in Scotland, that we should have more on our return trip home. It had gotten so bad that we had begun to laugh about every new twist and turn…you just can’t make this stuff up.
What was supposed to be an eight hour flight home has turned into a magical/mystery tour of several additional countries extending us four days longer. On 24 May 2023 after visiting family in Scotland for a week, they now dropped us off at the Glasgow airport hotel. That night my cell phone buzzed around 11:30 PM with a text notification that our flight from Dublin to the States was cancelled. (Another plane coming in, seats were all changed.)
25 May – Thursday morning we had a light breakfast and walked over to Glasgow terminal checking in at the Aer Lingus counter for our flight to Dublin. As we got through security, we purchased duty free items and then discovered my wife is now missing her passport/boarding pass. We return to security and retrieve her passport/boarding pass at the security desk (a close call). At 8 AM we boarded our flight to Dublin, Ireland arriving an hour later. We then proceeded directly towards our gate where we cleared security, US immigration and customs. At 11:25 AM we are in line preparing to board the aircraft but now our United flight is delayed. An hour later the flight was cancelled and we were sent to a hotel for the night in Dublin.
26 May – Friday morning at 6 AM we took a cab from the hotel back to the airport and where we were told the second United plane was not operational and the flight was again cancelled. We were then checked in for a Lufthansa Flight that took us to Munich, Germany (flying the opposite direction we needed to get home). After arriving in Munich and waiting around, we finally boarded our flight to Dulles at 4:35 PM. On-time departure, wheels-up and soon after dinner was served around 7:20 PM there was an announcement from the cockpit advising of a sudden medical emergency onboard. The flight was quickly diverted to Dublin, Ireland (where we just came from). We are asked to finish eating whatever they had just served us and get ready to land. Crew members are in an emergency/panic/action/mode as flight descends. At 7:38 PM we landed in Dublin. Around 9:20 PM the Pilot announced that the passenger needing medical attention had died. The pilot, co-pilot and the crew have now reached their maximum flying time, so we are returning to Munich, Germany! At 10:20 PM we take off back to Munich for a two hour flight. As we are landing the pilot tells us over the PA system there will be Lufthansa personnel waiting for us with new boarding passes, hotel reservations, meal tickets, etc.
It’s now 27 May on Saturday morning 00:20 AM as we land back in Munich and then immediately deplane. At 00:45 am we reach the Lufthansa service desk, where there is no one around. The terminal is totally empty, everything is closed. It appears that Lufthansa personnel on the ground were not given the word what had happened. Interestingly enough, for almost the first half hour, it was an airport official (and not an Lufthansa employee) who met with the passengers of LH414 and tried to calm the worries of the anxious passengers, with what little information that he had. Finally a Lufthansa woman representative appeared and spoke with all us passengers, telling everyone to help ourselves to the snacks (four racks of candy bars, water, pretzels, peanuts, blankets and pillows, etc.) She stated that we could return home if we lived in Munich or we could find a place on the floor and bed down for the night until the Service Center opens at 5 AM. She began getting a little annoyed and became rude when some customers kept interrupting her with questions as she tried to explain the situation. I stepped up close to hear her as my hearing is impaired and she noticed my cell phone and asked if I were recording her. I said no, because I had been trying to access an App to rebook this flight. I then said I could not hear her so well as many others in the back could not hear her. She appeared to be not concerned in the least and was interested in only getting out her message…whether anyone in the back could hear her or not.
Oddly enough, I am wondering why this representative felt the need to have two heavily armed police officers very visible near her while she addressed the distraught passengers. Just after her speech, she and the officers disappeared to leave the entire airport to our disposal. There is no way to retrieve our luggage, there is no assistance to obtain a hotel and no outside transportation. This was a full 240-600 Airbus of people who were standing around with nowhere to go, elderly, middle aged and a few younger folks. Frankly, I was afraid there was going to be another “heart attack” from a few of these already stressed-out older passengers.
It is amazing that in the world today, there is little face-to-face communication with people. We tend to book our flights through computers/cell phones/apps, even order our food through computers, and the list goes on. The majority of passengers were older people on flight LH414 who are not so savvy with computers, were most in distress (even one young lady sat across from us crying as she didn’t know what to do). Other younger passengers were quick to rebook themselves and then wandered off to calmly await their receipt of luggage and further information. In addition, they were able to book earlier and more convenient flights unlike those older passengers who were waiting to speak with a “live person” from Lufthansa airlines in order to rebook come 5 AM. I consider myself somewhat tech savvy but I could not get the App on my cell phone to work, much less a good signal to communicate on the internet. I ended up having to pay $10 for internet service overseas to get online. Still this was not enough to get into the Lufthansa website and rebook my flight to the States. When I finally did get into the airlines App, unbeknownst to all of us, in the background, the Lufthansa computer system had been randomly rebooking everyone on different flights all over Europe.
It’s now 5 AM on Saturday morning and one Lufthansa ticketing agent arrived at the service desk. He seemed to be unaware and a bit shocked by the situation, seeing over a hundred people standing in line at this early hour and began calling for more representatives. By 6 AM it was as though the “A” team had arrived and now four agents began to issue new flights that had been randomly booked by the computers overnight. We finally got our rebooked tickets, but now it was for a flight on Lufthansa from Munich to Chicago and then after three hours on the ground we would fly to Washington, DC our final destination.
Later that same afternoon on Saturday 27 May, after being awake for over 40 hours, with little to no sleep, we were beginning to board our Lufthansa flight back home. The Lufthansa representative at this desk helped us upgrade with payment that was not possible when we tried earlier via an App and getting our new rebooked flight by ticketing representatives at 6 AM. He was able to move us to our original seats at a cost and even when boarding, he came to seek us out to board us along with the First Class passengers. (I have retained his name and plan to write a review as to how understanding and considerate he was during our travels. This one and only employee restored some of our faith in Lufthansa airlines and humanity.)
We are not really sure that was the light at the end of the tunnel, when we landed in Chicago we all stood up and grabbed our bags. Then after five minutes the captain said the “Jetway” wasn’t working and we should all return to our seats, which everyone did. Ten minutes later we were finally getting off the plane. Our United return flight home was unaffected by any more gremlins other than we had to take a cab to the hotel where our car was located since they could not afford a free shuttle after 11 PM. We pulled into our garage early morning at 2:15 AM on Sunday 28 May…four days later than we were supposed to arrive home.
I made a complaint to Lufthansa and asked for compensation in accordance with the rules of the Justice of the European Communities. Lufthansa came back two days later writing to me in “German” stating they were very sorry for all our inconveniences, however, due to bad weather they are not responsible for any compensation. The nerve of Lufthansa turning around and blaming the weather for all our misfortunes. In addition, I also wrote to United Airlines stating that they put us out for two days before we got jerked around by Lufthansa. United had immediately come back with two $200 vouchers for our next flight, and the following morning they sent another email stating they are refunding our Economy Plus upgrades that we had purchased each way and also provided us with a $1,000 voucher to be used towards our next flight within a year. I sent the above full version to the person who provided us with the compensation and she was so shocked, she sent us both another $300 voucher each. Now this is how an airline should respond to the above scenario we experienced!
Faithful to United Airlines,
Leo & Bonita
An award ticket does not represent “revenue from multiple trips”. At least in the case of FlyingBlue, It represents “reading blogs and transferring points from American Express, Chase and Bilt”. Airlines absolutely should cancel award tickets over paid revenue flights every single time. Much as any hotel should always walk anyone on a points booking first, followed by Expedia/booking.com reservations at rock bottom ADR
@Jake Bowers – that’s still *revenue from US banks* which Flying Blue is desperately after (in fact, they say they’ve made changes to their program in order to become more attractive to US customers transferring points)
Your comment that reward tickets should be highest priority because they are rewards for that airline’s loyalty don’t quite ring true in the US market – there’s a Butt load of flyers doing the credit card carousel to get reward tickets from their everyday shop – what does spending $5k in 4 months on Starbucks and Safeways and Shopping have to do with airline loyalty? There are youtubers who make their money actively promoting this form of redemption travel.
@leo and bonita
That was the longest waste of time on the entire internet. No wonder you got no compensation for your delay. The airlines should have charged you instead. Think. Do we really need to know your wife list her passport or that you shopped at duty free? Nom we don’t. Likewise we didn’t need to know so many other things!
Downgrades are just a part of travel these days. I’m a Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, so I always expect less. When it actually works out the way I hoped, like I got the upgrade my status grants me, I’m appreciative. If not, I was already expecting “Meh.”
This problem is bigger and more complicated than this article suggests. A foreign airline may downgrade you because it considers the likelihood of being sued for the fraud remote. Specifically, they do not maintain a US Agent, requiring suit to be served in their domicile country, even for a case to be tried in US Courts.
This problem is rarely mentioned as a reason to choose a domestic carrier, or a foreign carrier that has a US agent.
Dimitrios – the last time the monitor did not work for me on TATL LH business class, I kept the seat and they offered 200 euro compensation. Worth it to me as I was not planning to watch much anyway.
I’ve also been bumped from an aisle seat near the front of the plane, both in the US and internationally, to accommodate Federal Air Marshals and their foreign equivalents.
I was downgraded on UA in 2012 from paid business class to coach. It was right when UA was finishing merger of computer systems with Continental and every seat up front was double-booked. They told us to sit in coach or find another airline to get us to NY (from LAX). They gave me a $36 refund as “fare” difference – they said fare difference = cheapest business class – most expensive coach. Didn’t fly US again until Summer 2022. Bought Premium Economy. Got downgraded involuntarily due to equipment change. Told them UK 261 applies and wanted my $$ back that I was entitled to – and I got that. Sticking with AA or DL. But I know it is luck of the draw.
Air Canada (AC) on a down-gauge cancel the flight to avoid IDB. Canada’s APPR specifies $2,400 for IDB, and up to $1,000 for late arrival, which is difficult to prove cause. So what would the Canadian airline do in this case, since there is no ramifications.
My wife and I were booked on United DEN-EWR-DEL, with DEN-EWR 1st class. At the airport we were told that flight was cancelled due to mechanical issues. We had to be in India, so after sitting in the airport for an extra 3+ hours, we boarded the next DEN-EWR. My wife was put in economy in the middle of the middle 4 seats (3-4-3) and I was in Economy Plus.
United, after my pushing, gave us each vouchers for $200 and refused to compensate further for inconvenience, no special meals, (much) worse seats. I guess that’s the M.O. these days. Should we have complained to FAA or something?
“The good news I took away from this though is Air France didn’t prioritize a paid passenger over one using points as is often the case.”
And as shouldn’t be the case.
Your comment reeks of someone who generally travels on award tickets.
Adelaide to Melbourne isn’t very far by air probably just over one hour so he might well have taken the compensation offered and used it for future travel plus I very much doubt that on a short flight there’s that much difference between the two classes of travel.It would be quite a different matter if you were looking forward to Business from say Paris to Singapore and ended up in Economy.
I have severe Restless Leg Syndrome so I always fly first or business class on points when I can or on dollars, not only for the extra legroom, but for aisle access. Being stuck in a narrower seat with less legroom would be excruciating not only for me but for the passengers around me as well.
I would definitely be seeing an attorney about not only Bait and Switch, but for pain and suffering as well.
I was downgraded by Qantas on a domestic flight, as an aircraft swap meant no Business class on my flight. I was given the choice of taking the route booked in Economy (no compensation for downgrade) or waiting an extra three hours for the next service with Business class. As this was following on from a long international trip I couldn’t face the wait, but did at least manage to get lounge access.