There are four major hotel loyalty programs, at least for Americans: Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott and IHG. Hyatt has the smallest footprint but the best benefits for frequent guests. Marriott is great on paper but most inconsistent at the property-level delivering promised benefits. IHG never had much in the way of benefits at all until last year when everything changed. And Hilton stands alone, promising almost nothing.
Loyalty Lobby points out that Hilton Honors is the worst major chain for late check-out benefits. But I’d go farther. It’s the worst major chain for elite benefits across the board.
Suite upgrades:
- Hyatt: upgrades at check-in up to standard suites, subject to availability. Members who stay at least 50 nights per year receive confirmed suite upgrades where members can book a standard room and convert their reservation to a suite any time a standard suite is available for sale at time of booking or any time prior to check-in.
Suite Living Room, Park Hyatt New York - IHG: upgrades at check-in subject to availability, and now offers confirmed upgrades within 14 days of arrival on paid stays (excludes award stays and prepaid stays). These confirmed upgrades are choice benefits which are available after staying only 20 nights.
Intercontinental Singapore - Marriott: upgrades at check-in up to standard suites, subject to availability. Members who stay at least 50 nights per year can select Suite Night Awards as a choice benefit which offer upgrade priority on selected stays, confirming selected room types including suites starting 5 days prior to check-in.
St. Regis Bangkok - Hilton: hotels are allowed to upgrade to suites, but are under no obligation to do so. Refusing to upgrade a Diamond member to an available standard suite is not a violation of program terms in any way.
Conrad New York
Late checkout:
- Hyatt: top tier elites are guaranteed 4 p.m. late check-out (2 p.m. for other elites) except at resort and casino properties (and Destination Residence timeshares) where it’s subject to availability.
- Marriott: Platinums and above are guaranteed 4 p.m. late check-out (2 p.m. for other elites) except at resort and convention hotels and Design Hotels where it’s subject to availability, and except at excluded properties and non-participating brands.
- IHG: 2 p.m. late check-out is subject to availability for all members, with priority for elites. In other words late check-out is never guaranteed.
- Hilton: does not guarantee late check-out. Hotels that do not provide it are not violating Honors program terms in any way.
Breakfast:
- Hyatt: Not only are top elites guaranteed breakfast, and not even as a choice benefit (where they have to give up some other benefit) but breakfast is specifically defined to prevent hotels from playing games with the benefit: it includes an entrée, juice and coffee, and includes tax/tip/service charges. Many hotels go above and beyond this, especially hotels with small restaurants which may offer complimentary room service.
When staying at a participating hotel or resort that has a Club lounge, Globalists will receive access to the Club lounge. When staying at a participating hotel or resort that does not have a Club lounge (or if Club lounge is closed), Globalists will receive daily complimentary full breakfast (which includes one entrée or standard breakfast buffet, juice, and coffee, as well as tax, gratuity and service charges) for each registered guest in the room, up to a maximum of two (2) adults and two (2) children.
Park Hyatt Vendome Room Service Breakfast - Marriott: you need a Ph.D. in the T&Cs to decipher the specific breakfast benefit which varies by brand and region, but in general Platinum elites and above receive at least an option for breakfast of some kind – either a continental breakfast, or a small food and beverage dollar credit.
St. Regis Bali Caviar
St. Regis Bali Seared foie gras with eggs
St. Regis Bali Lobster - IHG: Last year IHG introduced hot breakfast for Diamond members for the first time. In theory this should be the second best breakfast benefit. But note that hotels are now allowed to restrict some menu items from inclusion in the benefit, which we’re seeing happen.
Club lounge chef at the Intercontinental Kuala Lumpur - Hilton: Breakfast used to be the sine qua non of the Honors program, offering it even to mid-tier elites. However elites now receive breakfast or a food and beverage credit depending on where the hotel is located. The food and beverage credit, which covers U.S. hotels, doesn’t usually cover the cost of breakfast. If this were actually about guest choice, rather than a cutback, the could have let elites choose breakfast or a food and beverage credit like my college dorm meal plan used to.
Room Service at the Conrad Bangkok
Hyatt’s footprint is smaller. They have to offer the richest benefits to keep customers loyal. Marriott’s program, since merging with Starwood, has been next-richest in theory but there’s been little enforcement of actual on-property execution. IHG last year revamped its program and now offers competitive benefits.
Meanwhile Hilton has been a laggard for years. They keep hinting at finally getting on the benefits train, for instance seven years ago they considered a new top tier above Diamond and four and a half years ago they were testing confirmed suite upgrades. They never actually do it. Even their earn and burn proposition is less generous.
The only thing the Honors program really has going for it is that even ostensibly top tier Diamond is a giveaway level with their premium co-brand credit card, and the earn rates for Hilton stays with that card are good. But sadly the benefits of top tier more or less match that of a giveaway level.
Two things.
First, Wyndham and Choice are arguably major programs in North America. I would even add Best Western. Maybe not for business travelers but certainly average Americans.
Second, your summary of Marriott’s suite upgrade policy is not correct. Certain Marriott elites are entitled to the best available room or suite — not just a standard suite.
@FNT Delta Diamond – regarding Marriott suite upgrades, that is not what Marriott tells hotels even if terms have ambiguity.
Shamelessly baiting DCS
Hilton went from being my first choice to my last in the past 12-18 months or so. The cheap breakfast credit, relatively high requirements for annual and lifetime status, and ever decreasing (especially recently- I constantly see highly inflated redemption rates in comparison to cash rates) points value– combined with improvements in the other programs– makes me not consider them worth my loyalty any more.
And yet – there is zero indication this weaker loyalty program has led to Hilton losing market share.
I only stay in Hilton properties a few times a year but appreciate the ease of earning points, the credit cards, and the quality of many of the individual properties.
@Anthony – you don’t note their elite benefits as a selling point and they win your business only a few times per year!
There is no question Hyatt outperforms due to the stength of its program. Marriott ties together its brands without big marketing spend on the back of its loyalty offering.
Hilton would not be *losing* market share from its program because it has been consistently at the bottom for years, this is not a *change*.
I have had much better Bonvoy Platinum/Titanium treatment in UK, Japan and most recently Korea – than domestic. Full breakfast spread, well-done concierge happy hours, etc.
Domestically, I value late checkout the most – useful at midscale – and generally don’t have an issue until Fairfield Chattanooga in March balked – eventually gave me 1pm after negotiation (noon standard). Vacated at 12:15pm.to find a surly housekeeper standing outside the.door, demanding that I get out of her way (I paused, was checking out online on my phone).
So spot on about Bonvoy benefits on paper. Sometimes really good, sometimes not.so much (at.least at midscale). However, consistent at Marriott/Sheraton/Westin for breakfast.
Properties in Asia treat elites better across the board – including at Hiltons where they go above and beyond what the program requires.
You can’t make this stuff up!
No, actually, I agree
@ Gary — Looks like DCS didn’t take the bait.
I personally don’t get the obsession with suite upgrades. I’ve seen points bloggers and others on discussion boards basically self-immolate over not getting a suite for some one room stay where they aren’t even in the room 10 hours. But that’s just me I guess.
I have been loyal to Hilton for 20 years. The breadth of properties especially in smaller markets is better. I get upgrades to better rooms fairly consistently. I like the $$ credit versus breakfast because I usually spend it within five minutes of checkin at the pantry/shop. I Can expense breakfast traveling for work and for pleasure I can do much better 95% of the time outside of the hotel for a meal. I just want my two bottles of water and a room ready when I arrive.
Problem for IHG in the US is that their portfolio stills runs limited service heavy- in many markets where other chains have multiple higher end choices, IHG is limited to a Holiday Inn or a (frequently dumpy) Crowne Plaza.
Gary. The “what the rules say” is NOT a great criteria. What the hotels do is a much better criteria. And why the focus on getting a suite unless one will actually use it? I find i get well treated at Hilton. They get business accordingly as do IHG, Hyaty, and Marriott. I choose the property and the booked room not the “what are they supposed to upgrade me to.” The adult thing is to pick by the knowns and be pleased by the upgrades
Children pick by the hope of the uncertain, convert hope into expectation, and lash out when what is delivered defies that fantasy expectation. Grow up.
@Gary – while not necessarily “major” for USA, would love to see your analysis of Accor ALL . Accor ALL has a big network in Europe and Asia and many brands ranging from budget to luxury . That being said , the program seems to offer very few “guaranteed” benefits even at its highest level of Diamond . No guaranteed early check in or late check out . Breakfast only on weekends except for Asia . Suite upgrades earned upon Platinum qualification (2 earned good for one night each ) . Further suite upgrades for 1 night each at certain thresholds . Lounge access at Platinum and above but not valid for Fairmont Gold access . Like I said , take a look at ALL and consider reviewing it . Seemingly paltry benefits for even the highest level .
@Gary, didn’t you just post a few days ago about IHG confirmed suite upgrades being available on award stays?
“IHG: upgrades at check-in subject to availability, and now offers confirmed upgrades within 14 days of arrival on paid stays (excludes award stays and prepaid stays)”
Someone once wrote: “There’s really very little value in Hyatt status below Globalist, other than for 2 p.m. late check-out and perhaps avoiding ‘the bad rooms’ at a hotel.”
Only 4 programs for Americans? How about Choice Privileges? ha ha ha
Honestly, I’m done with hotel loyalty programs. Find better treatment booking through AMEX FHR and VISA Infiniti.
@Gary – It’s great that even DCS agrees with you.
I’ve been a lifetime Diamond Honors member for 6 years. I can count on 2 hands how much I’ve stayed at any Hilton property since then.
The main reason is elite benefits/recognition followed by hotel quality. I moved to Marriott a long time ago and have been an Ambassador for 5 years and lifetime Titanium member. Higher quality of hotels in better locations plus my elite benefits at full service hotels is decent.
Hilton lost its way a long time ago along with losing me
Lmao!
DCS posted that he’s traveling today – I think to Toronto? so he may be too busy to check this blog as often as he usually does. Then Gary schedules this post.
MASTER LEVEL SHADE THROWING / TROLLING BY GARY
And super-master level: APPROVES A COMMENT BY A DCS IMPOSTOR!
There is a 0% chance DCS even if in agreement with this post would have used the verbiage and succinct style of his impostor.
I used to be an extremely loyal Hilton person but when I realized they don’t have any lifetime status after obtaining 1.2 million points, I switched to Marriott and have one more year to get Titanium for life. I am a very loyal Marriott person now and even got their credit card. Hilton lost my business.
I see that there is already a DCS wanna-be out there, but the real one (I know HTML and know about the exchange yesterday I describe below) is ROTFMAO! (I)
Based on the title, this is a clear and ridiculous attempt at a polemic try to recover from getting beaten like a drum yesterday when he was unable to provide a source for his claim that Hilton Honors is the only program that doesn’t require hotels to offer suite upgrades, suggesting that there is a program out there that does. Well, there is no such program, so he was gaslighting as usual because that’s the site’s specialty.
Bottom line: I am enjoying my double upgrade as an IHG Diamond Ambassador at InterContinental Toronto, with Lake Ontario and CN Tower view, so, i am not going to offer you the opportunity to recover. You lost. Live with it and, importantly, stop gaslightiing for a change !!!
I have not and won’t read the post because it is all made-up stuff, as usual. Anyone who wants to know what this blog post about should find the post on IHG allowing confirmable suite upgrades on award stays published yesterday, and read the comments section.
G’day.
I see that there is already a DCS wanna-be out there, but the real one (I know HTML and know about the exchange yesterday I describe below) is ROTFMAO! l.
Based on the title, this is a clear and ridiculous attempt at a polemic to try to recover from getting beaten like a drum yesterday when he was unable to provide a source for his claim that Hilton Honors is the only program that doesn’t require hotels to offer suite upgrades, suggesting that there is a program out there that does. Well, there is no such program, so he was gaslighting as usual because that’s the site’s specialty.
Bottom line: I am enjoying my double upgrade as an IHG Diamond Ambassador at InterContinental Toronto, with Lake Ontario and CN Tower view, so, i am not going to offer you the opportunity to recover. You lost. Live with it and, importantly, stop gaslightiing for a change !!!
I have not and won’t read the post because it is all made-up stuff, as usual. Anyone who wants to know what this blog post is about should find the post on IHG allowing confirmable suite upgrades on award stays published yesterday, and read the comments section.
G’day.
Just for fun…..(and all true)….;)
The (US based) property at which I made my most recent Hilton Honors redemption totally failed to honor the T&Cs cited above. Now I’m really annoyed.
They upgraded me from a king room to a one bedroom suite for the full 5 nights of my stay despite being fully booked for the Saturday night and into a suite situated on the more attractive and quiet side of the property. The room was way too big and comfortable for my basic needs.
That upgrade was made soon after booking and not at check in and thereby not subject to availability at check in. They denied me the excitement of the lottery of whether I’d get upgraded at check in or not.
They provided me with a USD50 food and beverage credit. They thereby shamelessly created the temptation to use that credit for wine and dinner instead of breakfast.
They let me check in 5 hours early. They thereby denied me the exercise benefit of walking the streets for those hours waiting for my suite to be ready.
They costed the redemption at 1.6 cents per HH point. They denied me the satisfaction of spending the lowest valued hotel loyalty currency at its true value of 0.4 cents per HH point and destroyed my legitimately enjoinment of the chorus of worst hotel currency of this and other travel blogs.
They effectively offered a net return of 24% (using Gary’s math) on the earn / burn. This has caused me great anxiety over the ethics of feeling self satisfaction from scoring such a return when others are stuck at 6-8%.
They didn’t charge a resort fee. They made me feel so bad about accessing the pool towels, free coffee and lemonade and other resort perks for free.
I haven’t felt so guilty on a hotel redemption since my pre pandemic 5-night stay at the Conrad Bora Bora, which drifted even further from the obligatory T&Cs.
Yes – it’s definitely time to ditch Hilton Honors – the worst program for failing to honor its loyal members according to the T&Cs.
I
@Youngblood – Right on the money detecting this blog post for what it is! 😉
Toronto beckons, so…
…byebye!
@ DCS — Beaten like a drum. Who, you?
…oh, about the post yesterday, I forgot that @platy came in and drove the final nail in the coffin…
Yes, I’m having a great time in Toronto in my upgrade to the 1 King Premium Lake Ontario View room, truly living like a king (ha!) In my special room. By myself. Checking a travel blog comment section repeatedly.
I actually won this trip in a contest. 1st prize was a 1 week vacation in Toronto. 2nd prize was a 2 week trip to Toronto.
Cahn’t make this stuff up!
@Gary ostensibly wrote this post to “even the score” with “DCS”, but look at what it’s turned into…a charade! He’s got every DCS wanna-now be posting, and he’s probably not able to tell the impostors for the real thing so he’s letting them all post!!! 🙂 The more the merrier!
To say that things have backfired spectacularly would be an understatement…
@Gene – Name the last time DCS admitted being wrong about anything when he wasn’t attempting to be snarky. Even though it’s factually pointed out and every unbiased observer (I include myself here as I actually like Hilton but I see their shortcomings without rose colored glasses) can ascertain that Hilton doesn’t cut it in heavy traffic. He’ll try to pretend differently but ultimately will attempt all kinds of verbal contortions to simply concede the point that he’s wrong.
@ Gene
Your posts are erudite. I encourage some further consideration on the article above and recently posted. Let us know what you think.
Firstly, a smarter approach would be to focus on the “strengths” of each hotel loyalty program and aim to play to those strengths. You can get Diamond status in IHG (not top tier) and Diamond in Hilton Honors (nominally top tier out of LTD) so ridiculously easily you can can nail those status levels and stay flexible in your approach. Whether it is worth chasing down Globalist in Hyatt beyond that is a moot point.
The key take out is why not pitch at and focus on the strengths of each rather than be so obsessed with an absolute ranking. The approach in the article is so dumb. It presumes that such a ranking has practical validity in the real world, when we know that it doesn’t.
Secondly, the underlying concept of value on this and other travel blogs is fundamentally derelict. Redemption values vary widely with a substantial spread. Having an above the bar / below the bar boundary may admittedly stop fools from bad redemption choices, but beyond that, setting valuations fo loyalty currencies is potentially misleading and misdirecting generations of readers on this and other travel blogs.
Consider the claim on this website that HH point are worth 0.4 cents. I have personally redeemed at 4 and 5 times higher redemption values, including in the last couple of weeks after the last round of “devaluations”. The reality of such spreads is not evident with a one value fits all valuation.
Thirdly, the true value of loyalty currencies needs to be seen in the context of the earn rate to get the full picture. If the earn rate is the same, then yes, Hyatt points become more valuable than Hilton points comparing similarly cash valued room redemptions. But if you earn Hilton points at a greater rate (say 3x more per buck) the net benefit to you evens out if you need to use 3 x more for the redemption – savvy?! You end up with the same net return for your loyal expenditure.
Thirdly, we can presume that the various loyalty programs trend towards similar average net rates of return, because they are similar business models. If the accessible earn rate and available redemptions are surveyed we might well expect similar net value on the average. This puts into doubt Gary’s claim that Hyatt has to offer more to offset its tiny footprint as does the relatively huge effort to attain to status compared with than other programs. Nice idea – perhaps logically suspect. Jumping to superficial sounds nice logic may or may not represent reality – Gary rarely backs up such statements with evidence. He may be right and have insight, but we can’t be certain.
Fourthly, if we knew that typical net value we might be pleasantly surprised of get a nasty shock. If net value is in the range of 6-9% as Gary claims (which may or may not reflect real life), then our efforts are arguably entirely misplaced. We’re better off chasing cheaper hotel rooms and getting cash back on our credit cards. That conundrum arguably needs to be addressed rather than dumb rankings of programs. My bet returns playing with Hilton Honors are in the ballpark of 300-400%, which is why I find it so amusing (read insanely dumb) that these travel blogs obsess about rankings and fixed currency valuations.
Fifthly, loyalty programs are examples of seduction marketing. Our choices are based on ego and our responses to our personal sense of status anxiety (social status). This argues for an even clearer objective approach. Oh look, I got a suite upgrade, I’m so fcuuking special. We can’t help ourselves. But the math can. The one person who has done the math is @ DCS, which is why all readers would be respectively advised to try to understand what is being proposed in his posts for an alternative viewpoint to Gary and other travel bloggers.
Sixthly, yes, we should be aware of the T&Cs of these loyalty programs and make informed comparisons. But the T&Cs alone do not define what we actually experience as loyalty members in real life. For the article above to have practical resonance, Gary needs to take the next step and consider how properties over deliver and under deliver. Maybe he will.
Basically, the article is rehashing the same staid and traditional dogma. It’s safe and appears to satisfy some of the punters with just enough edge to keep the troll factor engaged.
Do your own travel plans justify chasing down Hyatt Globalist? Matt’s footprint was insufficient to satisfy my own travel needs on my two most recent back to back RTW trips.
I’m now planning a trip to the eastern Mediterranean. The Grand Hyatt Athens looks fantastic. I may stay there. But the suites are approximately USD100 more expensive than the base rooms. If I chased down Hyatt Globalist those 60 qualifying nights would only offset USD1.67 per qualifying night on each night of stay assuming a suite upgrade. No thanks – not worth the effort.
In Tel Aviv there are no actual Hyatt properties (or anywhere else in Israel for that matter), so the Intercontinental may win out there. To be fair, I can could access The Norman (SLH) but it doesn’t seem to be bookable on the Hyatt website. There is also the American Colony Hotel which looks lovely – but again I’m not going to chase down 60 nights in Hyatt to save now about USD200 per night on the suite upgrade. Now the relative math will differ from person to person, but I assume you get my drift. In Istanbul the pro case for Hyatt becomes more compelling because there is Park Hyatt. In Cyprus, Hyatt bombs out completely (pending a possible new property in Limassol yet to be opened).
Trip number 3 and still no compelling case for Hyatt globalist…..;)
What’s going on here? Some IMPOSTER again! You CAHNT make this stuff up! This is the “real” DCS out at the best (drag) club in Toronto having a great time.
It’s called WINNING!
Too bad nobody gives a s$$&t about the comments section and the silliness that happens here.
G’day, sirs!
@ Christian — you will never find such a time because I, the real DCS, do not make claims that I cannot support factually. If you can prove as wrong anything I stated in this space, then take shot at proving it as such. That would be more interesting to address than whatever the forum host attempted to accomplish here.
@ Christian says:
“Even though it’s factually pointed out and every unbiased observer”
Please evidence which “facts” have been misrepresented.
If you are yourself a Hyatt Globalist please do share just how much actual return you have enjoyed for the effort of securing that status tier.
@Gene – Point, match, and set.
ROTFLMAO. “Point, match, and set” against which “DCS”?!
See how ridiculous and stupid?
It’s late here. Gotta go…
I seriously laugh at people chasing Hilton status. It’s a joke. Worst program hands down. Stay away. Don’t do it. Hyatt globalist and Marriott titanium here.
Talk about a brand that has lost its luster. 30 to 40 years ago, staying at the Hilton meant you were staying at a nice hotel and somewhat luxurious. I don’t think I’ve been in any Hilton property in the last 20 years that was memorable or had any ounce of luxury.
What a joke of a brand.
@Maxie
I see Accor as the Southwest of hotel programs- other than playing a little bit of currency arbitrage since award redemptions are pegged to Euros, it’s fixed rate redemptions. But the strength of the program is ‘no blackout dates, no limits on the number of award rooms a property has to offer- apply points to offset room costs for any qualifying room rate, and room, and any time’ which can be very useful for last minute trips or trips during times and places when there’s high demand. I threw a bunch of Accor points at a Novotel last year in a Tour de France stage finish line town and it’s the kind of scenario when pretty much no other award program would have let me cover almost all of the bill booking a special event time frame about three months out when only suites were left. (The ASO had snapped up the standard rooms for teams and race officials months before that.)
@ Gary Leff
“There is no question Hyatt outperforms due to the stength of its program.”
Do the math, Gary.
My current Hilton Honors Diamond qualification took a one night stay, an “investment” of about USD150 in my local Hilton which came with an upgrade to executive room, access to the lounge for evening drinks and a restaurant or lounge breakfast and personal contact from the GM.
Let alone the potential redemption value of the points earned on that stay (since redeemed at 1.6 cents per point paying back the majority of cash expended on the room), the pay back from spending cash to secure that status tier is already in the thousands of bucks of upgrades etc within one 5 night award redemption stay at a high end property. The net return is off the charts, in the order of 3000%.
Those accessing Hilton Diamond per their Aspire credit card can apply the same mathematical approach to derive their person net return from their expenditure in chasing status.
Now with Hyatt, you need 60 nights or 100,000 qualifying points, yes? That’s gonna cost you USD20,000 at 5 point per buck base earn (or less if you can spend your 60 nights in hotels costing less than about USD335 per night) or the points redemption equivalent. To break even on your investment chasing Globalist status you now need to enjoy benefits worth in excess of that USD20,000 – taking the lead from your fixation on suite upgrades, that equates to 200 nights at properties where the room / suite price difference is about USD100 (aka Athens) or 40 nights where the room / suite price difference is USD500, 20 nights where the price differential is USD1000 (higher end and aspirational properties).
That’s just the break even point. Factor the math if you want an actual positive return. To get a 100% return you need to double the examples cited. Of course, if someone else is paying you might not give a fcccuuk about the math and take the whole lark as one big freebie.
Now you can alter the math model in any way you want, but the inescapable reality is that it is a trivial matter (relatively ow cost) to secure status on certain hotel loyalty programs. If you ignore such, you are fooling yourself and your readers by failing to consider the input side of the loyalty deal.
Now explain to me how you get 3000% net pay back with respect to the effort inputted to secure status as a Hyatt Globalist?
Now, I ain’t seeing anybody except @ DCS on this blog actually attempting to do the end-to-end math as it applies to real world experiences of loyalty members, so some herein could contribute to a rational and objective debate if they have the interest and competency to do so. The rest is just subjective personal opinion (which is fine as personal opinion, perception, etc).
@Brian – It’s the only chain where I’ve seen a toilet cleaned so badly there was something brown crusted on the seat. Not even at Motel 6 have I encountered anything so disgusting.
As for the dueling DCSs they all seem fake unless he’s mellowed in his old age.
@Chancer — Oh, the real DCS is posting. You just did not know them as well as you thought you did. But here’s the thing: even you would have been smart enough not to be baited into engaging “MASTER LEVEL SHADE THROWING / TROLLING BY GARY“.
Based on the site’s past demonstrably bogus and repeatedly debunked claims, which I am sure this post that I have not read and won’t read must be full of, what we have here is a textbook definition of gaslighting and not worth addressing. That is not “mellowing with old age”. It is called being smart… 😉
G’day.
Hilton gives you 2 bottles of water and usually a clean room. Upgrades – rarely, Late checkout – NOT.
But I can brag about being Diamond. Oh, guess everyone else is as well.
@DCS—You said you were leaving twice now. Can’t you stick to your word?
At Marriott, none of the supposedly guaranteed elite benefits are truly guaranteed because tucked inside of Marriott’s terms and conditions is a clause that nobody ever talks about:
§ 4.1.c.ii “Local policy may prevail over Loyalty Program standards at Participating Properties, and some Elite membership benefits may not be available at some locations.”
That allows any bad operator to cite “local policy” in denying benefits.
I agree with the comment about IHG. But I wouldn’t limit it to just domestically. Even in Europe, IHG lacks a sufficient number of full-service upscale hotels.
The reality is there are lots of markets where Marriott has Sheratons, Westins, or Marriotts in a given market and Hilton has a Hilton but IHG is only represented by an older Holiday Inn or a newer Holiday Inn Express. And in my experience, in a smaller market with both a Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express, the Holiday Inn Express is almost always nicer and newer.
IHG is only ever my first choice when I’m in small towns. Basically, flyover country where the only other chain option is a Choice, Wyndham or Best Western.
With that said, some of the Holiday Inn Expresses in Europe have a bar and even a restaurant. In my opinion, IHG should have mandated a bar like Hyatt Place or Courtyard when Holiday Inn Express was refreshed as a brand a few years ago.
@Dan — I did leave…yesterday. Then I came back this morning, but please just leave the gaslighting to the forum host. You won’t dictate to me when to come or go.
@DCS – Nice try, fellas. The real DCS, or at least the original one, would have thrown in an emphatic “you’re stupid” and maybe peppered in a “go to hell” by now.
Also, the posts are way too short. If you don’t need to scroll endlessly to skip past a DCS post, it’s not a DCS post.
@ DCS — You really should drop the platy nonsense. I guess you have multiple-personality disorder? I’m surprised Gary tolerates this two names charade.
LOL — This is truly fun. I killed the forum host’s gaslighting attempt by refusing to participate and the troglodytes are confused and howling at the moon.
@Gene — platy and DCS live worlds apart, but I appreciate your confusion given that he too is an evidence-based commenter. @Gary will tell you that platy, whose almost every comment he has been holding moderation, and I are different folks. There is no charade at all.
Why is Hilton the worst. Easy answer,it is Chinese owned
platy makes several good points.
The thing is – when I can redeem at Waldorf Astoria Beverly Hills, DC, Maldives, Maui at 1, 1.5, 2 cents per Hilton point fairly easily, get $50 per day for meals, and get a nominal upgrade, most of Gary’s complains don’t matter. When I can easily find a Hampton or Hilton Garden Inn basically anywhere in the country and earn points, and where’s stuff like suite upgrades are irrelevant, most of Gary’s complaints don’t matter. Hilton hotels are full, just like Marriott, just like Hyatt. Stay where you want and earn points along the way. It’s really that simple.
Usually use chain hotels for business travel. Was diamond with Hilton for almost 10 years. Two $0.25 water bottles is not an elite benefit. No housekeeping and run down properties have me using IHG…most are upgraded and good service and cheaper with okay breakfast. Forget Marriot, it’s not worth the money because it’s not a premium product.
@DCS – What’s truly funny is thinking that Gary Leff or anyone else for that matter would bother trolling a rando on the internet.
If whoever’s posting here as “DCS” is the same DCS who’s been running his mouth all these years, the short posts are somewhat concerning. Is he suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome?
As Hyatt expands, I really hope they keep all of their current benefits for elites. They’re the best IMO
I gave up on hotel programs a long time ago. The squeeze ain’t worth the juice.
@ Gene
” You really should drop the platy nonsense. I guess you have multiple-personality disorder? I’m surprised Gary tolerates this two names charade.”
FWIW Gary prescreens / moderates every single one of my posts on this site – depending on what IP data he can see, he could confirm that the majority of my posts are from Australia…;)
On my recent posting history over the last month he may even be able to confirm my claim of a recent RTW trip to Brisbane, Singapore, London, Madrid, Lisbon, Estoril, Santa Monica, Sydney.
Any similarity is easily attributed to a common background in bioscience / math. That’s the whole point about the scientific method – when competently applied multiple researchers can reproduce the same result. We are trained to apply a critical analyses and back that up with collection, collection, analysis of relevant datasets to a level of statistical rigour, acceptable for peer reviewed publication.
Similarly, you might presume that two different CFOs would come up with similar sets of accounts for the same company, two lawyers derive similar lines of legal argument and reference case precedents, two hotel loyalty program CEOs similar business models, etc.
Now a well trained / experienced bioscience looks at a loyalty program and identifies the key variables of relevance to its members. They then look at the relationships between those variables and seek to model the system. This provides a top down approach anathema to the medium of travel blogging, which steers towards a reductionist approach snippets of information / opinion. Both approaches have their strengths, but lead to differential perceptions.
How about addressing even one of the 7 points I made above rather than defer to petty and easily disprovable accusations?
@platy – I have never checked the IP but have no reason to question the veracity of your being a unique commenter, versus an alter ego.
Your comments do go into a moderation queue, it seems, and perhaps frequent length has something to do with it.
@ chancer
“If whoever’s posting here as “DCS” is the same DCS who’s been running his mouth all these years, the short posts are somewhat concerning. Is he suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome?”
Have you anything to say on the topic at hand? How about actually trying to think about the content of article?
Lets’ make this as simple as it gets. The article ignores two fundamental aspects of the T&Cs of these hotel loyalty programs. And that is an irrefutable and factual statement. Consider the omissions include:
1. Pathway to status tier
2. Fourth / fifth night free benefits
Gary’s number one ranked Hyatt is actually at the bottom for both of these factors. They are both ignored in his summary. The analysis is incomplete in a manner that favours Hyatt.
@ Gary Leff
Thanks for the clarification. Be well. Be brilliant.
@platy – “The article ignores two fundamental aspects of the T&Cs of these hotel loyalty programs. And that is an irrefutable and factual statement. Consider the omissions include:
1. Pathway to status tier
2. Fourth / fifth night free benefits”
Fourth / fifth night free benefits are only a part of Hilton’s elite status. Hilton *restricting this* to elite members is hardly a point in its favor. Marriott offers it to everyone. IHG offers it to co-brand cardmembers. This seems more part of the earn and burn proposition of the program (where Hilton is still worse than Hyatt, though Hyatt is uniquely ungenerous with elite bonuses and not offering 5th night free).
Regarding “Pathway to status tier” this is indeed a separate and important issue. This post is about the benefits once you have status, not about how easy it is to earn that status. Hilton is easy to get status, but that status doesn’t get you much. Sign up for a U.S. credit card, get top tier. That and the paid cost of a suite will get you a suite.
Hyatt offers benefits every 10 nights, including confirmed suite upgrades 10 nights before achieving their top published tier. They offer a dedicated Concierge at 60 nights, while Marriott does it at 100 + $23k in spend. I don’t think Hyatt is relatively tough on pathway to status. However they do have fewer hotels! Which means that the program does not work for everyone, and not everyone is in a position to earn that status (credit card spend for status is only a thing in the U.S. for instance).
Lordie…
@Chancer — you are not a very clever fellow. You think of me as some ignoramus or troll who should have taken @Gary’s blatantly obvious bait and given you the spectacle that the “DCS” in your imagination would have. Well, you are wrong about the real DCS, who this is (see my trademark blockquote above…until the imposters figure out how to use it?).
My comments are almost invariably as serious as comments in this form can be. I post very little that I cannot support factually because that is my formal training and what I been doing for a living for over 4 decades. It is why I am in Toronto this week, staying at the InterContinental Toronto, which is right next to the Toronto Convention Center : I am attending the 2023 Annual Meeting of the International Society for Magnetic Resonance in Medicine (ISMRM 2023), of which I am a Fellow, as a full Professor of Physics in Radiology with dual appointment at the medical schools of two Ivy League universities.
The DCS that you are expecting won’t show because he exists only in your head. The real one saw a clear bait by the forum host and will not bite and be a participant in his gaslighting. Got it now? You are expecting something that you will not get from the real DCS.
G’day.
@ Josh
“I seriously laugh at people chasing Hilton status. It’s a joke. Worst program hands down. Stay away. Don’t do it. Hyatt globalist and Marriott titanium here.”
If people are actually “chasing down” Hilton status rather than obtaining one credit card that delivers Diamond status, it would indeed be a joke.
Out of (genuine) interest, what’s you own route to Hyatt Globalist and Marriott Titanium? Do you use spend on one of the World of Hyatt or Marriott Bonvoy credits card to offset the night qualification?
How much actual value have you enjoyed for your top tier status in these programs? How did that value compare with the effort you expended to attain such status?
…So was SPG [R.I.P], we were told…
A tribe in Mali is well-known for practicing livestock fattening as a strategy to ensure that their animals would fetch much higher prices at the open market.
I mention that because I get the sense that World of Hyatt does not seem to be a significant factor in Hyatt’s recent single-minded drive to grow the company very quickly by mergers and acquisition. It is almost like Hyatt is about to sell the company but wants to “fattening” first it so that it would fetch much higher prices … 😉
@ Gary Leff
Excellent response, mate.
“Fourth / fifth night free benefits are only a part of Hilton’s elite status”
Yes, of course, but according to your good self you are offering an analysis: “about the benefits once you have status”.
“This seems more part of the earn and burn proposition of the program”
May I ask whether or not you have factored in these 4th / 5th benefits in your redemption valuations (Hilton 0.4 cents etc)?
.
“Regarding “Pathway to status tier” this is indeed a separate and important issue. This post is about the benefits once you have status, not about how easy it is to earn that status.”
Hopefully, the debate will be extended in future posts for a well rounded analysis (?). Value derived for expended effort is surely a topic of potential interest.
“Hilton is easy to get status, but that status doesn’t get you much”
My personal experience is entirely at odds with this assertion. The redemptions I have made have delivered big net returns, albeit at high end properties such as the Conrad Bora Bora and Ocdeana LXR . The benefit set (upgrades, lounge access, restaurant or lounge breakfast) has served me well in (non US) properties. As proposed in my earlier post, perhaps we all need to refocus on program strengths and real life experiences to help each other derive the most value out of these various programs (?).
“Hyatt offers benefits every 10 nights, including confirmed suite upgrades 10 nights before achieving their top published tier. They offer a dedicated Concierge at 60 nights, while Marriott does it at 100 + $23k in spend.”
Nice, if you are a road warrior on an employer’s dime.
“I don’t think Hyatt is relatively tough on pathway to status.”
Obviously, that’s your personal opinion. The actual real life value I have derived for effort expended from HH is exceptional.
“However they do have fewer hotels!”
I can understand the attraction to Hyatt. I have stayed in the Park Hyatt in Sydney and Milan and they were exceptional properties. But, yes, the footprint has to fit the individuals’ travel pattern and goals. In my personal case, sadly, it doesn’t. Onboarding new brands by Hyatt is to be welcomed.
“credit card spend for status is only a thing in the U.S. for instance”
Yes, indeed. Absent such, and after a couple of decades on the status hamster wheel, I will turn my attention to boutique hotels offering better value per buck than chain hotels and lean on IC Ambassador and Amex FHR plus other VIP hotel schemes such as Virtuoso. Just enjoyed a triple upgrade and free breakfast and late check out at the excellent Casa del Mar, Santa Monica on FHR…;)
“If someone is intentionally distorting reality to make it seem like what you know for sure to be real isn’t real, you area victim of gaslighting.”
Alright then: “Hyatt’s much touted free breakfast is offered only to WoH Globalists. Hyatt *restricting it* only to Globalists is “hardly a point in its favor” because Explorists, Discoverists, and regulat members do not get it.”
You have been gaslighted.
Off to my meeting’s opening ceremony…
Do you seriously think Gary reviews all comments before they are posted? If he did, he would have little time to do much else.
@ Gene
“Do you seriously think Gary reviews all comments before they are posted?”
As I have stated above, ALL of my comments go to moderation before being published, long or short. I don’t know whether Gary reads them or not. His website, his choice.
I can’t talk for the experience of others or for what Gary does or does not do. Why not ask him, if you are concerned about misinformation?
@platy — Nothing @Gary claims is ever rooted in facts. They are only assertions that he has conditioned his flock to accept as facts because he is the “thought leader in travel ” and whatever he says must factually true.
He asserts again and again, after I debunked it several different ways using kindergarten-level math, that Hilton’s earn and burn proposition is worse than Haytt’s. The only problem is that even the most rabid WoH fans do not believe the claim since no math is needed and one must stipulate that points earned from CCs that he constantly peddles do not count. Also, all one needs to do is to compare the frequency and quality of promos to know he is gaslighting…again…
Great evening with a nice cool breeze In Toronto…
I personally like Hilton and especially enjoy the Conrad properties. Just finished a 3 night stay at the Conrad Hilton. Was upgraded to a junior suite and given executive club access. Wonderful buffet breakfast every morning, appetizers and drinks in the evening and high tea service with sweets at 2 pm. All comped due to my Dimond status. I got similar service and benefits during a 7 night Conrad stay in Manila and a 7 night stay in Costa Rica. Seems like the OP favors and always has been a Hyatt enthusiast. They’re footprint is clearly lacking overseas and they’re rates are higher to comparable Hilton properties.
@platy – Welcome to travel blogs! You must be new since you’re buying into the DCS spiel hand over fist.
@DCS – No need for me to create a fantasy DCS. I’m sure your old comments are still floating around these blogs, so people can see for themselves if they care to.
I’m not sure what’s sadder… trying to prove your bona fides once again by rattling off irrelevant qualifications or still mooching off the fame of bloggers instead of starting your own travel blog? Scratch that.. there’s not much point in writing a blog if no one would want to read it.
@Chancer — Like I said, you are not a very shart fellow. You are presuming that I should be ashamed of my comments around the web. Well, I am not because they are among some of the most erudite comments you will find on any subject…but it’s not like any of them would make any sense to you or any other Kool-aid drinker.
Second, I am not trying to prove my bona fides because they are, well, bone fide! They are what they are and @Gary has known about them from day one and might even have seen them on LinkedIn since I have seen his name pop up there on a couple of occasions.
Lastly, I do have my own travel blog, which I started to escape censorship. It’s named TravelRealityCheck by DCS: Quantitative Travel Blogging.” It is where I intend to publish what will show just how little the “thought leader” knows about stuff that he’s been writing about daily for 2 decades. He’s learned nothing because he’s more interested in spinning than in telling it like it is, and that’s the paradox of propaganda: he’s ended up brainwashing himself…
Why do people engage with fools? If DCS thinks Hilton is the best program then it is for him. I’m happy he enjoys it so much. It makes it less likely I’ll bump into him at my Hyatt and Marriott stays.
Anyone who spends so much effort trying to convince others the superiority of a hotel program has a screw loose.
This stuff is really in your wheelhouse, Gary. (I also dig the economic/political stuff, though sometimes differ with you). The best program will surely reflect the type of travel one does — except Hilton is clearly the in the crapper for everyone. For my type of travel — I don’t need a suite and can stay four or more days on most occasions and a room with enough space to work — IHG has been okay and is now fantastic. With the fourth night free, I routinely get far better value than the cost of points. I’ll buy IHG points at 0.5 cents any chance I get. I typically get 0.8 to 1 cent in value compared to the cash price — even after the 15% from being a Diamond and using an IHG card. Fourth night free. And Holiday Inns and Indigos in Europe and Asia are more than decent — I’ve never had an issue with the Diamond breakfast benefit. The breakfast spreads in Asia (Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, Korea) have been awesome as have those in Finland and Poland. You’re my rabbi on stuff like this.
Yeah, I don’t understand the comments section either. I’m not sure there is a “real” DCS anyway; nobody I know who is an actual full professor would use this much cognitive bandwidth on scouring travel blogs in this way.
@ chancer
“@platy – Welcome to travel blogs! You must be new since you’re buying into the DCS spiel hand over fist.”
Thanks, mate!
FWIW I enjoyed my first award seat 36 years ago and have posted on various frequent travel bulletin boards and blogs for decades in the course of earning / buying and redeeming millions of miles / points in a number of hotel and airline loyalty programs.
Now you be careful uncritically buying into the traditional spiel hand over fist. Do you really believe that HH doesn’t deliver suite upgrades? Do you really believe that a HH point is worth 0.4 cent? Do you really believe that a Hyatt point is worth more than a HH point? Do you really believe that HH fails to deliver exceptional value to those who play the system? Etc, etc.
The orthodox position that many cling to herein is laden with presumption, misperception and prejudice, easily exposed by a modicum of critical analysis, fact, and real life experience.
Not you, or any other commentator herein has addressed the points that I have raised to counter the core thesis of the OP’s article. The OP has graciously responded with reasons for side stepping the omissions in analysis which favour Hyatt in the number one spot and not answered other queries such as whether the 4th / 5th night benefits have been factored into his valuations of hotel loyalty currencies.
Not you, or any other commentator herein has offered any value-based / numerical analysis to counter the value models I have put forward in my posts above.
You have avoided answering my basic questions on how much effort you have put into securing status tiers in Hyatt and Marriott and value thereby enjoyed favouring snide personal attacks. Probably, you never even thought about it that way.
“I’m not sure what’s sadder… trying to prove your bona fides once again by rattling off irrelevant qualifications or still mooching off the fame of bloggers instead of starting your own travel blog?”
Arguably, top tier qualifications and experience in bio/med science attest to high levels of intelligence and competency at critical analysis and an evidence based approach.
As somebody who has also had the good fortune to be educated at and worked for the world’s most elite universities, I can sadly report that I am all to used to the vile prejudice doled out by some when challenged by the intellectually gifted and highly educated. Folks often make personal attacks when exposed as fools. Accusations by some herein that DCS and I are the same person are a simple example.
I don’t know what’s sadder, that you seek to denigrate rather than learn from others, or that you are seemingly unaware that you are dealing with correspondents evidently operating at a much higher level of intellect and insight.
“mooching off the fame of bloggers”
For that to hold there would need to be benefit for the person you are accusing of such – whereas the benefit actually flows to the owner of the blog – the more posts and controversy, the more engaging the content, savvy?
@Farthis — The general perception, which is erroneous, seems to be that I try to convince everyone that Hilton Honors is the best program. Far from it.
Closer to the truth is that I try to show that Hilton Honors is not the awful, terrible program that travel bloggers, especially this site that purports to be qualified to call winners and losers, claim it to be. Exhibit A is this post, which I am sure contains the canonical list of Hilton Honors’ shortcomings. The only problem, as I just showed above without even having read the post, is that it is all bogus, the ultimate in gaslighting, worse than Josef Goebbels.
I do not care who patronizes Hilton Honors. I care about programs being fairly presented.
Ask @Gary the last time he stayed at Hilton property. Well, this year, I stayed at Park Hyatt Saigon, Park Hyatt Siem Reap, InterContinental Chicago Magnificent Mile, InterContinental Toronto, voco by IHG Singapore,meaning that I am not the monolith that people think I am simply because I am passionate about defending HH since I know more about the program than even most Hilton employees!!!
Gotta go…
@ Fathiss
“Why do people engage with fools?”
Perhaps in the hope that misguided folk (like yourself) can be facilitated towards a more enlightened position.
“If DCS thinks Hilton is the best program then it is for him…Anyone who spends so much effort trying to convince others the superiority of a hotel program has a screw loose.”
Except that if you actually bother to read and try to comprehend the content of his posts, he is not proposing that Hilton Honors is the “best” program.
DCS is challenging misconceptions and oft repeated mistruths about the HH program (one simple example from the OP’s post above: “status doesn’t get you much” – a demonstrably untrue statement).
DCS in various previous posts is saying that hotel loyalty programs are geared to deliver SIMILAR net returns (the cash value you get back for the cash spend you put in) to their members when you factor in both the earn rate and redemption rate. Neither HH nor Hyatt is “best” in that essential regard.
Now what exactly has DCS posted that you personally regard to be non factual or non evidenced? Please give me one example and back your position. Nobody has done that, you and others preferring the pathetic cyber bullying route.
In the meantime, stop and think. It “cost” me a one night USD150 stay to secure my annual HH Diamond – how can I possibly lose, given that starting position? Are you going to pump USD140,000 through a Hyatt credit card to leapfrog to Hyatt Globalist in one hit?
Open your mind, dude!
@ Birny
“Except Hilton is clearly the in the crapper for everyone.”
Except that it’s not, if you read the posts above which include several folk who see value in that program….;)
IHG certainly has its strengths – recently enjoyed stays at Indigo Rome, IC Madrid, IC Estoril on points and SIN Changi on Amex travel vouchers.
@DCS – Who suggested you were ashamed of anything? Quite obviously, you aren’t.
I only said that the DCS claiming to be the DCS who’s been haunting these blogs all these years doesn’t quite seem like himself. Anyone who”s been reading travel blogs for the last decade must sense that the current iteration of DCS doesn’t appear nearly as combative or insulting as the DCS of old. Thankfully, somewhat less verbose as well.
Btw when I mentioned writing your own travel blog, I didn’t mean creating a portfolio for a junior data science job.
And LMAO @ “shart fellow”… I think you’ve landed your nickname.
@Gene – This way someone will agree with him. Same thing with AC/Retired Gambler. It’s pretty pathetic but when it’s the only game you’ve got you play it.
No wonder they’ve accused him being my alter ago.The quote above is so spot on and stated with such clarity, that I should use it as a footer in every single one of my comments to dispel the notion that I am just a Hilton “fanboy” out to “convince” the world of Hilton’s “superiority”. Au contraire!
Anyone who’s read my comments must have seen my mathematically supported statement that “all loyalty points currencies are ‘worth’ exactly the same”, while travel sites, this one especially, have claimed for years, first that the starpoint [R.I.P] and then the WoH point was the “single most valuable hotel points currency”. If I were out to the prove HH’s “superiority” would I not have countered by claiming that the HH point was “worth” more than any other ?!
They claim that HH offers no suite upgrades. When I counter by providing evidence (photos) of my suite upgrades galore every single year, they accuse me of claiming HH’s superiority. etc. etc. etc
Bottom line: They accuse me precisely of their very own offense, which is that their preferred program (put the flavor du jour here) is the “best” out there, and that HH does not measure up. When shown that the claim is bogus because it is full of holes, they turn around and call you a HH “fanboy”, never paying attention to the shortcomings pointed about their program (status expensive to earn and/or maintain, no 4th or 5th award night free perk, etc).
@Chancer — You are troll. You’ve gotten your 15 min of attention. Now, have a nice life.
PARTING SHOT
Gary, Gary, Gary !!!
Rather than the constant gaslighting, you ought to get informed and do more critical thinking if you are to call yourself “thought leader” in anything.
Buried in his own biases, the “thought leader” accuses Hilton of having been a “laggard” in implementing changes and providing benefits that the program has actually delivered on in very big and exciting ways!
“seven years ago they considered a new top tier above Diamond”: What do you think the program’s suddenly highly visible Lifetime Diamond status is?! Some “honorary” status like Hyatt’s LT Globalist? Think again! HH LTD is the program’s new bona fide above Diamond elite status that they promised! Rather than creating another elite status above Diamond, they simply made LT Diamond the promised “greater than Diamond” status, which they have been trying to populate very fast by counting for 3 years now all bonus points earned with any AMEX HH card as base points!
four and a half years ago they were testing confirmed suite upgrades: What do you think the program’s new and highly innovative global automated upgrades are?!
Whether you really did not realize that Hilton had already delivered on its promises or you are simply in denial is not important. I am here to tell you that LT Diamond is definitely the promised elite level above Diamond and it is no accident that the new global automated upgrades were rolled out at about the same as the elevation of the LTD status: it was because the upgrades were going to be prioritized according to elite status, and the clear differentiation ensured that LTDs would get highest priority (think of US GS level of status recognition)…and that has been the case for this LTD.
Will be happy to provide the hard evidence but much of it I already provided in various contexts.
Good bye.
P.S. Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond is now the program’s bona fide “greater than Diamond” elite status and they are not even subtle about it. The visual evidence at the link below is so powerful, it will protect anyone who sees it from ever being gaslighted on the subject:
https://bit.ly/3QYwpWL>/b>
@ DCS
“When shown that the claim is bogus because it is full of holes, they turn around and call you a HH “fanboy””
Actually, they do far worse – they make accusations of gaslighting and lapse into cyber-bullying, whilst offering zero evidence to counter the points raised.
Now, just for fun, and using Gary’s subjective data points:
Here are Gary’s top elite value returns (VFTW 27 November 2021):
Hilton 8%
Marriott 10%
Hyatt 9%
IHG 10%
I have asked him whether he has factored in the 4th (IHG) and 5th night (HH and Marriott) and received no response. If he hasn’t, and I presume that to be the case, the math shifts thus:
Hilton (x1.2): 9.6%
Marriott (x1.2): 12%
Hyatt (x1.0): 9%
IHG (x1.25): 12.5%
Hyatt is at the bottom of the ranking. Whoops! Not only is Hyatt at the bottom, but according to these figures as a Hyatt member we would be 40% worse better off than as an IHG member who can access the 4th night free benefit.
Of course, I do not accept Gary’s point valuations, so the above is just an exercise to illustrate the hypocrisy in the article’s premise. To be fair on Gary, other travel blogs are equally at sea with this stuff, he’s just advocating the orthodox position.
Moving forwards, once we accept that these major hotel loyalty programs are geared to deliver similar typical net returns (which we both know is mathematically provable), we can leave the whole nonsense about rankings behind us.
The real question becomes how to find the outlier returns relative to the baseline typical return – outsize value in aspirational and other properties defined either through personal preference or sigmas, if you prefer . Each program will differ in what’s on offer in that regard, hence my advocation to focus on the strengths of each, rather than try to rank them.
There are three fundamental ways that value is delivered:
1) reward for cash spent in the loyalty program
2) value in the benefits derived from cash spent to achieve status
3) accessing availability of redemption goal
Realisation of that value depends on reward availability, because value is only released upon redemption, which is uncertain for future rewards, especially in properties offering high redemption values, but can be estimated per extant data.
Differential program strengths and uncertainty about availability both argue for a mixed portfolio.
The problem is that chasing status can distract us from a mixed portfolio. Ironically, HH Diamond can be secured with minimal effort. Not only does that release the benefit set, increase our point earn, it also enables the mixed portfolio. Being able to get mid tier from IHG easily (pay for IC Ambassador) puts that program into play, albeit not at top tier.
Hyatt ranks badly in creating a mixed strategy because it takes relatively huge effort to attain Globalist! OK, go flash USD140,000 on that credit card, but be honest about the return for that effort (point (2)).
The bottom line is that we should be looking at how to evolve our strategy to combine our engagement in all of these programs to get the most return for our effort. Ranking programs steers us in the opposite direction. Being a fanboy of Hyatt is as unhelpful as being a fanboy of Hilton.
Like I said, be patient, my friend, the revolution is coming, pitch for the few with open ears and minds and maybe ignore the trolls entirely henceforth…..;)
Bad link fixed
P.S. Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond is now the program’s bona fide “greater than Diamond” elite status and they are not even subtle about it. The visual evidence at the link below is so powerful, it will protect anyone who sees it from ever being gaslighted on the subject:
https://bit.ly/3QYwpWL
@platy
The R, aka, ‘rebates’ or ‘returns on the dollar’, in VFTW 27 November 2021 were calculated as
R = point value * base earn rate
which is fine as a general equation, but problematic in actual implementation because the result, ‘R’, will depend on which ‘point values’ and ‘base earn rates’ are used.
@Gary uses his own point values, which are not very good and he excludes CC bonus points from base earn rates, which makes no sense. Therefore, the values of ‘R’ that he gets reflect his own biases
— he sets the value of Hilton point at 0.4cpp. That is lower than the value that Hilton assigns its point, which is 0.5cpp because it’s the cost of its points when it sells them with a 100% bonus.
— he uses 20x as the base earn rate when a HH Diamond with the AMEX Surpass earns 32x and one with the Aspire earns 34x, the highest of any elite (which is precisely why he excludes them).
Both of those biases and much more can be shown graphically by making two simple plots and running simple regressions in Excel :
1. VFTW’s ‘point values’ vs. ‘base earn rates’ w/o CC bonus points
2. VFTW’s ‘point values’ vs. ‘base earn rates’ w/ CC bonus points
I have already disclosed more of my methodology than I intended, but stay tuned for the granular details!
Regarding the 4th or 5th award night free, that is really easy to grasp
— HH, Bonvoy: 1 night in 5 is a 20% saving
— IHG: 1 night in 4 is a 25% saving
The two are the same because 20% on 5 nights is exactly the same as 25 on 4 nights, and both get one night free worth up to the highest standard award cost (e.g., 150K for HH)
— WoH: 0% saving & 0 free night on 4- or 5-night award stay.
Gary
You forget to mention that Hilton Diamond can be obtained with a credit card. So it is the easiest program of all to get status. And outside USA usually get nice upgrades and excellent full breakfast. and i almost always get 4pm checkout when request it.
With iHG or Hyatt need to stay 60 nights without any benefits at all. In my humble opinion deifinitley not worth it as breakfast alone for 2 for 60 nights might easily cost $ 4k!!!!
Also IHG Diamond provides very few tangible benefits as usually NO UPGRADE. and 2 pm checkout. a bummer .
MARRIOTT ALSO EASY TO GET WITH USA cards and is my favorite again outside usa.
@josh – I didn’t forget! 🙂 “the only thing the Honors program really has going for it is that even ostensibly top tier Diamond is a giveaway level with their premium co-brand credit card”
Hilton is absolutely THE WORST! I was (reiterate WAS) a diamond member for 5 years and never got one upgrade to a suite. I even called the diamond hotline and asked how could this happen. Their response was (I kid you not): “Well it’s because all of our suites are full.” I then asked why their parking lots were empty. No response. So, I tore up my diamond card, used all of my 600,000 points to book rooms for free until the points were all gone and then cut up my Hilton credit card. I’ve been treated 100 times better with the Marriott brand. As a titanium member, I never had to ask for an upgrade, it was always offered at check-in. I’ve built-up over 1.5 million point with Marriott since I switched. Hilton doesn’t give a crap about losing loyal customers.