As part of Delta’s efforts to reduce crowding in Sky Clubs, they no longer allow employees to use clubs while non-revving, even if they’re club members. In fact Delta tried to convince employees to take their premium American Express card which comes with club access just last year, promoting the benefits of using their club.
The airline allowed employees to receive pro-rated refunds for club memberships and for card fees, but any friends and family who non-rev and took the card are stuck with the annual fee but no lounge access. Delta employees who heeded the airline’s call to volunteer cleaning the clubs can no longer even use their memberships to these clubs.
9,000 people signed a petition asking Delta Air Lines to reconsider. Delta did not respond to the petition.
Now the AFA-CWA union, which is trying to organize Delta flight attendants, is using that to drum up anger at the airline that might help their cause.
- The petition was created by a union organizer
- Who acknowledges that only a portion of people signing it were actually employees
- And they came out bashing the airline for not responding after just one week
This is the simple reality for us as Delta Flight Attendants: without a union and a contract, management is not accountable to us in any way.
I became active in our Delta AFA campaign because I don’t want my job to change whenever Ed Bastian feels like changing things.
Of course there’s no actual suggestion that a union would be able to maintain lounge access for non-revving employees unless this was negotiated into a contract and doing so would mean giving up something else. The union doesn’t tell that to employees.
Delta proactively offers significant pay increases and makes industry-leading moves like paying flight attendants for time spent boarding and offers far more profit sharing than more unionized competitors.
After Spirit Airlines negotiations, where AFA-CWA didn’t get boarding pay, they told their members that this didn’t actually matter much. Meanwhile AFA-CWA reports that the flight attendants they represent at United are almost universally unhappy.
Delta is able to make more money now, and pay flight attendants more now, under the current arrangement. Union work rules would hamper productivity and thus pay, and Delta crew would send a portion of their pay to the union for the privilege of making less than they otherwise would. It’s clear that for Delta’s flight attendants (a lesson that is not universally applicable) unionization is far better as a stalking horse than reality.
good summary, Gary
A 20 year original Delta flight attendant has voted against unionization (or were the result of multiple votes that ended w/ rejection of unionization attempts) more times than probably any other worker in American industry.
Delta employees have repeatedly voted against being represented by unions other than pilots – and the pilots feel shorted because they think they negotiate for the rest of the company since DL non-pilot employees always get what DL is willing to give other employees – such as the percentage of profit-sharing.
Unions have failed America and will continue to do what is in their interests and not in the interests of employees; DL employees are just smart enough to see that reality.
And union members at other airlines PAY for their unions to repeatedly try unsuccessfully to unionize DL flight attendants.
OK I thought this article was going to be about them not being able to use the sky lounge not about UNION! I think that if an employee purchased the card and pays for the use of the lounge through the credit card that they should be entitled to use it just like everybody else as long as they’re not in uniform, etc.
I don’t understand what this has to do with trying to be unionized.
@KW -it is AFA-CWA that is trying to make it about a unionization drive
@ Tim Dunn
You very conveniently totally ignore the issue at hand – the airline has unilaterally enforced a position on its employees.
The whole point about collective representation is that it presents a counterbalance to such in an unequal relationship (one employee versus employing company). The right wing seeks to shift the power entirely in favour of the employer. It is just one reason why the right wing is fundamentally derelict in its ethical position and disrespects the rights of individuals in society that it falsely claims to champion.
Now I know you don’t like non Americans commenting on US politics, but you’re going to have to suck it up, Tim.
We are watching the parlous state of your nation wherein you excuse over one million COVID dead in the name of freedom, where you excuse another group of school kids gunned down in their schools (just this morning) in the name of dumb gun rights and we shake our heads at your right wing fake news and dog whistle racist and discriminatory politics, whilst being appalled at your lack of universal healthcare and the scores of homeless people on the street corners of your cities. The overall state of your aviation industry and airports are also testament to the abject failures in the way you conduct your affairs in some deluded notions of capitalism whilst sniping at other countries where it’s simply done better.
Stick to your excellent commentary on the industry – your politics are childish and asinine. It’s disgusting that your Republicans denigrate the race of members of my family that live in the US. It’s appalling that your Republicans sought to undermine the integrity of the medics and scientists during COVID. It’s vile that your Republican trash FL governor incites hatred for personal political gain. What an uncivilised rabble the US right wing has become.
.
@ KW
It’s just Gary being Gary. He’ll seize any opportunity to denigrate unions and wantonly use his twisted logic and misinformation to do such.
Wow. Just wow.
I wrote a piece about the union who wants to organize Delta flight attendants using the club issue as part of their organizing drive, and get criticized for writing about… the union. And platy backs that up, while going off on… Republicans and Covid? “That’s just @platy being @platy” I guess.
platy,
you are categorically and factually wrong.
US labor law allows employees to choose to be represented by unions if they wish. Multiple unions have tried multiple times to try to organize Delta flight attendants as well as other employee groups less frequently and the result has been a resounding and repeated rejection of union representation.
Nobody has forced anything on Delta employees any more than JBLU ramp workers also just rejected union representation.
You simply either do not understand US airline labor laws or you think you can spout off and sound convincing. You couldn’t be more wrong.
Gary’s article is on point. The union is trying to change a narrative at which they won’t succeed. But since they haven’t succeeded so far, of course they will try whatever they think might work
If you’re reading platy’s comments searching for a refutation of Tim’s post…good luck! It would appear he latched on to his comments about Delta flight attendants choice to reject unionization, as a segue into his unhinged tirade about Covid, guns, politics, and capitalism. It might not have been so bad if he actually got something right. Unfortunately, as usual, his comments are laced with half-truths, hyperbole and obvious bias.
@ Gary
But buddy, you don’t just report that the union wants to organise flight attendants at DL, you add your personal interpretation:
“Of course there’s no actual suggestion that a union would be able to maintain lounge access for non-revving employees unless this was negotiated into a contract and doing so would mean giving up something else. The union doesn’t tell that to employees…”
Your article thereby becomes an opinion piece extolling your personal bias (your website – your choice). Hours later you publish…what…wait for it…another anti union article…;)
My remarks on Republicans were directed at Tim Dunn (not you directly) as a counterpoint to his comments, in particular the statement “Unions have failed America and will continue to do what is in their interests and not in the interests of employees” but also directed at his history of comments on matters political and his dislike for non Americans commenting on US politics. I’m sure he is more than capable of defending his own position without you stepping into the fray!
You love it!
@platy – “I do wrote Of course there’s no actual suggestion that a union would be able to maintain lounge access for non-revving employees unless this was negotiated into a contract and doing so would mean giving up something else. ” This is pretty irrefutable. Calling it opinion as a justification for offering opinions on unrelated matters is interesting I guess. As for those comments being a refutation of @Tim Dunn I am glad you at least acknowledge you’re attempting to refute things he hasn’t actually said in *this thread* and that at a minimum they are very much off-topic…
I am not a Delta employee, but have access to Delta Lounge through my Amex Platinum (am also on the bubble every year Diamond) – when I am non-rev I do not have access to Delta (e.g. flying American). So yes, it sucks if you used to have access but don’t now, but the problem is too many people in lounges (mostly due to credit card deals he says ironically). Same in Amex Centurion. “Can I bring a friend in” keeps changing…
@ Gary Leff
“This is pretty irrefutable.”
Certainly in your mind / world view. But to me it’s conjecture, not fact, and thereby potentially refutable.
As you point out in the article, staff are being disadvantaged with regards to the supply of a “product / service” they have procured through credit card subscription and club membership fees (rather than a benefit enshrined in a contract of employment). Is that (and thereby the article) correct or not?
Given that, on the one hand you could argue in your favour (it’s a consumer issue rather than a workplace contract issue and offers no substantive leverage for the union who wants into DL) on the other hand you could refute your statement (a group of consumers is being discriminated against because they are employees and the union doesn’t need to bargain to give up another workplace contract benefit if the real issue is non supply of a procured product / service).
“Calling it opinion as a justification for offering opinions on unrelated matters is interesting I guess.”
The opinion I offered in referring to your article was that it is (per form) anti union.
For balance, what alternative and positive actions do you propose for DL staff to address the denial of access and supply?
“As for those comments being a refutation of @Tim Dunn I am glad you at least acknowledge you’re attempting to refute things he hasn’t actually said in *this thread* and that at a minimum they are very much off-topic…”
Yes, absolutely correct. I responded to Tim Dunn’s comment which is generic (unions in America are blah blah blah) and thereby off topic. A generic rant against unions begets the mirror of a generic rant against right wing apologists who seek to trash unions indiscriminately on the other. Perhaps germane on a day when another school shooting hits the news. Delete if OT?
FWIW I love Tim’s on topic comments! They are packed full of facts and substantiated opinions…;)
Be well.
@ Tim Dunn
“US labor law allows employees to choose to be represented by unions if they wish…union representation”
I have stated nothing to the contrary, Tim.
“Nobody has forced anything on Delta employees”
According to the article the airline is denying Delta employees access to the lounges that they have paid for per credit card subscriptions and membership fees – yes or no?
“You simply either do not understand US airline labor laws or you think you can spout off and sound convincing. You couldn’t be more wrong.”
You haven’t proven any statement in my posts as incorrect. You have presumably completely misunderstood the content.
“Gary’s article is on point”
Of course it will be in the eyes of an anti union right wing apologist.
Being a flight attendant, I can tell you that alot of you are wrong. And yes, Gary, you do seize on any opportunity to paint unions with a certain brush.
Solidarity!
Gary doesn’t like weekends or the 40 hour work-week, we get it. What a load of baloney.
@ James N
“It would appear he latched on to his comments about Delta flight attendants choice to reject unionization”
Not at all. I responded to Tim extrapolating his political bias from the Delta case to all unions in the whole of the USA as a consequence of his right wing bias. That’s my statement of intent – my words, my intent, for clarity. Your incorrect perceptions cannot nullify such. You add zero content, insight or experience on any topic on any thread. One wonders if you even get on an aircraft or collect any loyalty miles / points.
“unhinged tirade ”
And yet a completely accurate statement about the appalling reality of modern America.
“Unfortunately, as usual, his comments are laced with half-truths, hyperbole and obvious bias.”
And yet another mass shooting – two assault rifles involved – six dead including two 9 year olds and an 8 year old and three hero adults. Grow up, James. Meanwhile, (@platy being @platy) I lost a family member today, a friend cremated his mother, I bought my wife a new car and booked flights and hotels at my expense for my nephew’s honeymoon. Oh and 6 people were murdered in another preventable mass shooting in the good old US of A. Travel safe, bro.
First off the lounge thing isn’t permanent. It would be back way before a union would even get a vote let alone a contract.
Afa is just trying to find a way to come up with something else to fire fas up about. We don’t want a union and I’m saying that from not being right wing. This isn’t political no matter how much AFA tried to make it that. The article even dismissed the union at the end and giving half truths and playing on emotion and not facts.
Preventable? Maybe you should contact the appropriate authorities and provide them with your solution. I’m confident your ideas will be brilliant.
@ Platy
“It’s disgusting that your Republicans denigrate the race of members of my family that live in the US”
You live in the most racist country on earth.
@ James N
“Preventable? Maybe you should contact the appropriate authorities and provide them with your solution. I’m confident your ideas will be brilliant”
It’s not hard James. It’s called gun control. It works in other countries. We don’t have the utterly uncivilised issues that the USA in my country or the country of my birth.
It’s you and your right wing twats who protect the right to kill school kids. People like you have the blood of those children on you hands.
It doesn’t happen in my country. My friends still own guns and go hunting. They just don’t need multiple assault rifles to do so. Their children don’t need to own a gun.
When I try too rationalise how a great country like the USA can end up in such an awful mess I think of people like you. And then it makes sense. Idiots. Conspiracy theorists. Arrogant twats. Admittedly you have an excuse. Your posts reveal you to be pig butt ignorant, but there are others on this blog who are smart and professionally accomplished. They have no excuse.
@ Jack the Lad
“You live in the most racist country on earth.”
Oh Jack. Your US right wing has called on the most base and disgusting side of humanity to extol its case – discrimination and racism and dog whistle politics in its most odious form. Evidently you support that hatred. Shame on you.
Update from Australia – the right wing racist scum have been voted out at the national level in the recent national election. They have also been voted out in every state in mainland Australia Over the last couple of years. The “republicans’ have been decimated in every recent election at both national and state level. Just Saturday the right wing scum were slaughtered in the state election of New South Wales.
if you have anything insightful and intelligent to say about Australian politics post it – I’ll applaud your insights if valid and deconstruct your idiocy if warranted. But it will be done with fact and reason, not conspiracy triggered BS.
@ Stay tuned for the facts
“First off the lounge thing isn’t permanent. It would be back way before a union would even get a vote let alone a contract.”
Problem – Delta messed up! Demand greater than supply. Folk like Tim Dunn can make up excuses, but Delta messed up and want to discriminate against their staff. We have no idea of the damage that has done to their brand and credibility. Time will tell. And meanwhile Tim Dunn will spin the narrative.
“We don’t want a union and I’m saying that from not being right wing”
Who is “we”. Are you claiming to represent the employees of Delta in your post?
“This isn’t political no matter how much AFA tried to make it that”
The semblance of politicisation of the situation arose because of Tm Dunn”s comments and the bias in the original article.
“The article even dismissed the union at the end and giving half truths and playing on emotion and not facts.”
It would – that’s Gary being Gary. His anti-union bias is self evident on repeated posts referring to unions. He even called for the public beheading of an elected union chief. Vile stuff – if you think that social media mass character assassination should usurp democratic process of a non publicly elected official.
Think about it carefully my friend and please travel safe.
@ Tim Dunn
“you are categorically and factually wrong”
Tim, I have clarified in a post above why your criticism is incorrect. You are predictably silent when caught out. Absent an apology perhaps you can buy the first beer when our paths finally cross….;)
Be well and travel safe.
“It’s called gun control.”
Why am I not surprised he offers one of the most, vague, simplistic “solutions” that is constantly recited by any number of “experts”. Note, they never explain what this obvious solution looks like. They actually believe that laws can be created that criminals will adhere to.
Shame on me for thinking he was going to offer something novel or revolutionary.
@ James N
“Shame on me for thinking he was going to offer something novel or revolutionary”
No, shame on you for having the blood of innocent children on your hands. Shame on you for offering nothing of value in any of your posts.
Change will come if your right wing politicians took a leadership position against guns (because it’s the right wing that stands against change).
That is exactly what happened in Australia. The right wing “Republican” national government made an agreement with the state governments to put in place stronger gun control legislation. There is an attendant piece of legislation in every state – you can read the statutes online. That was backed up with a buy back scheme (cash paid as an incentive) for unlicensed and prohibited categories of weapons. Vast numbers of guns were removed from the community. Again all of the background is available to you.
It is not novel. It’s been done. It’s been proven to be successful. All you do is offer excuses.
Is it revolutionary? Perhaps, yes, in the good old USA where the Republican politicians and their supporters refuse to act. Where the right wing scoops up the cash in the ten of millions from the NRA. Until they change, you will remain an uncivilised country. And the blood of every victim will stain the hands of all DWRAs.
Now I have travel plans to make and I need to cook dinner for the wife. Be well my friend. Travel safe.
Ok I think that’s enough on… gun control… we’re far enough afield from the topic. Thanks!
I can tell you first hand in California employees are treated unfair/poorly, really low staffing on a regular(not due to covid), employees over worked, favoritism is really bad, prejudice is highly high, days off denied, lunch breaks missed due to short staffing or poor planning, poor health benefits.
Equipment isn’t cleaned, managers sit and watch cameras all night not to assist when personal is short or to correct an issue but to find something you’re doing wrong so they can write you up and make it difficult to promote.
Employees should want a union as a buffer to hold management accountable so the unfair & selective treatment, doing whatever they want whenever they want, stop fly by night/next day rules not in favor of the employee but to benefit management bonuses by using the back of employees then throw them out to the wolfs/sharks.