Three Orthodox Jewish passengers were kicked off of the JetBlue New Year’s Eve redeye from Palm Springs to New York JFK after changing seats on board.
One of the men moved to an open seat in order to avoid sitting next to a female passenger (that wasn’t a relative) who had the assignment next to him.
A flight attendant told him he couldn’t do that, so he tried another seat and was scolded again. The Orthodox women traveling with him tried to explain his religious concerns. A man who overheard offered up his seat, and the two switched.
- That’s when the group of passengers was kicked off, because crew were “not comfortable” with them.
- The two women who hadn’t tried to switch seats objected to having to leave, but were removed also.
- A JetBlue employee claimed that “changing seats is a violation when it comes to weight imbalance.”
The pilot can be heard saying “My inflight crew tells me they do not want to have you on their plane,” and that “I have to support them.” One of the passengers interjected that this was “antisemitism.”
According to a passenger on board (whose boyfriend gave up his seat to accommodate the man), everything was peaceful.
Yes and also why isn’t there protocol for this, a circumstance that is not unusual? What *was* unusual here – this was resolved pretty easily (my boyfriend gladly switched seats once he realized what the need was) and everyone was seated & waiting . Then they were kicked off.
— Rachel Sklar (she/her) (@rachelsklar) January 2, 2024
49 USC § 44902 provides broad latitude, within certain bounds laid out by the FAA, for the captain of an aircraft to refuse transportation to a passenger if they feel that passenger might be “inimical to safety.”
A pilot’s decision cannot be arbitrary or capricious – but that’s not the same as saying it has to be reasonable. It’s generally presumed that the actions of the pilot are reasonable, and judged based on facts the pilot was aware of at the time and the time constraints they’re under.
- If they’re given only one side of the story, and it’s incomplete
- And they make a decision based on that information
- And they’re in a rush to get the plane out
- That’s probably going to be fine under the law
So if the captain felt that a passenger could be a safety risk solely because they weren’t listening to a flight attendant, even if it involves an issue where they’re not obligated to follow instructions, they’re probably within their rights to kick you off the plane. It probably wasn’t fair here, but that doesn’t mean the pilot was wrong under 49 USC § 44902.
At the same time, cabin crew probably should have handled things better so that it didn’t get to this point. We don’t know exactly why the flight attendant had an issue with this man changing into an open seat – whether it was how he looked (what he looked like), or how he responded to her. Many miscommunications happen, exacerbated when people are having bad days.
Naturally I want to know ‘what happened before the recording’ but we do have passengers who don’t seem to think the man had done anything improper. And it’s not just that man being kicked off – it’s his Orthodox traveling companions as well.
A year and a half ago Lufthansa engaged in collective punishment against Jews on a flight, refusing connecting transport to anyone believed to be Jewish after some Jewish passengers got in a row over masks (“it’s Jews coming from JFK. …Jewish people who were the mess, who made the problems”).
As for the man concerned with having an unrelated female sitting next to him, the best approach here is to purchase an extra empty seat in the first place.
So many questions. If truly as represented Jet Blue should compensate them, fire or educate the FA and move along. Also, if the man was traveling with 2 women why couldn’t he book an aisle seat, put one of the women in the middle and problem solved. Hate to go down the stereotype path but was he “too cheap” to pay for a seat that would allow the problem to be resolved?
While this may be extreme (and could speak to an antisemite view by the FA (or a bias toward Palestine given the current situation) it frankly is no different from the many stories of parent or couples that seem to always expect a seat change to address whatever issue they may have. Bottom line, do your research and PAY FOR the seats you want in advance to avoid any potential drama on the plane.
If Orthodox/Ultra Orthodox men don’t want to next to a woman on a flight, the best bet is to buy the seat next to them, as the passengers and the airline aren’t obligated in any way to accommodate them. If a switch works for those involved AND the flight attendants, great, but a passenger should NEVER expect anyone to make a change for them ON the flight.
Orthodox men wanting to change seats to avoid sitting by a woman is not uncommon. It is obnoxious and offensive IMO to book a flight, cheap not pay for the seating you want, and then expect to move away from a woman just because she is a woman, or expect the woman to be moved away from you. I can’t think of any other class of person who has these expectations. It is insulting to women in general and I am second guessing that is why the FA was not going along with it.
I personally abhor the continued subjugation of everyone’s freedom’s by a minority claiming “religious freedom” along with the corresponding destruction of the separation of church and state, but…
…this is a really easy case of “reasonable accommodation”, and after the first “scolding” when the passenger said he wasn’t comfortable sitting next to an unrelated woman, he should have been accommodated (as much for the woman as him!)
Really, “I would prefer to not sit next to this person” should be accommodated in pretty much any case that an alternate seat is available in the same cabin.
The article reads “The pilot can be heard saying “My inflight crew tells me they do not want to have you on their plane,” and that “I have to support them.”
This is why a national no-fly list based on an FA complaint is very problematic. Some FA completely lack professionalism and/or ethics.
An FA should not be fired. The FA should be forever banned from any service related occupation or work and put on a national sex offender’s list.
Sorry, one booking a flight must expect that a woman COULD be seated next to an Orthodox/Ultra Orthodox man. It is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE to expect ANYONE would change a seat while already boarded on a flight, and it is in my opinion wrong to ask a woman to move because same passenger won’t sit next to a woman. That is an unacceptable ask.
@derek
First of all, there is no national/federal sex offender registry. It simply does not exist, the FBI website is just an amalgamation of all the individual state registries.
And in either case, what exactly did the FA do here that would be cause to place them on it?
@Tizzette, I also find it offensive that he does not want to sit next to an unrelated woman, but I still think they should have been allowed to switch since there was a willing volunteer.
If the passenger had demanded to be accomodated (when there were no seats in the same service class available), or if the FA had made someone switch seats or give up their seat in order to accomodate, that would have been COMPLETELY different.
In this case, there was a volunteer and a very reasonable way of settling the matter that was acceptable to all the passengers involved. From the details given, there wasn’t a need to kick them off and it does seem like it was anti-semitism.
I opened this post expecting to hear the usual fiasco of outlandish demands for accommodation. However that does not appear to be the case. Instead it seems to have been fairly reasonable and a solution was found amongst the passengers without anyone losing their mind……until the power hungry FA decided to flex.
Complete over-reaction by the FA, and the pilot probably felt obliged to support a fellow employee in the interests of an easy life.
I really can’t stand all the seat trading, switching and what-not that sometimes happen on some flights. What if I’m uncomfortable seating next to a fat person? A frat boy? A Democrat/Republican? A gay? An ethnic person? This has no end. As a matter of principle people should never agree to these requests. Either you buy the right seat to accomodate your preferences, buy two seats, or fly private. End of story
The man should have bought an extra seat for comfort (I have done that before on JetBlue) and made it so no one was seated next to him. He doesn’t get to rearrange seating. Maybe the flight attendant was reacting to his sexist behavior.
I am sick and tired of everyone trying to accommodate every stupid wish by religious nutcases.
If any other passenger would have been allowed to move to an empty seat, then so should the Orthodox man. People want all the time to move to a different seat and, unless they have been split up from their 3 year old or something, the reason shouldn’t matter whether an FA allows it. I think people ought to stay in their assigned seats and it is the luck of the draw what you get if you don’t pay for the seat you want. I hate it when I have paid for seat selection, chosen an empty seat beside me, and then somebody moves and reseats themselves into it. But that is neither here nor there. Think what comes next if FAs are supposed to move people simply because they don’t want to sit next to their seatmate for personal prejudice reasons, and what kind of hateful personal prejudices those might be.
Another story trying to glorify stupid people.
1- Religious extremism does not have to be accommodated ever.
2- If they refuse to accept the common travel standard then they have to charter their own plane or drive or just stay home!
No sympathy here, JetBlue & the Captain are 100% right.
as usual, religion is the focus of half of the responses even though there is a MINORITY of the population in MOST of the accommodation DEMANDS that other people have – including sexual preference, mental issues or any of a million other things that some people think makes them special.
Why can’t we just leave it that no one should expect to be accommodated for anything other than a documented physical issue?
And while companies should do what is POSSIBLE, they also should have employees that can tactfully say no.
Let’s keep in mind this took place on a New York City based airline.
Could the irony be any more apparent?
Pretty easy lawsuit. So you can accommodate a 900 lb ogre demanding an entire row due to their own poor life choices, but not orthodox Jews that were trading with willing passengers?
So just to be clear where I stand. I support religious freedom. The bakers who were sued for refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple that violated their beliefs? I’m 100% on the baker’s side. Same with the website designers who refused to make a gay wedding registry, or the religious school wrestler that forfeited, rather than wrestle a girl. Not decisions I would make, but that’s your religion, and you are free to exercise it.
However, when you refuse to sit next to a female on a plane, you aren’t exercising religious freedom. You are FORCING your religious beliefs onto other people. In a way, it’s similar to the above cases I mentioned, where secular people attempted to force their values onto religious people. If you can’t fly next to a woman, then either remove yourself from the flight, or book an empty seat. This nonsense where religious people expect everyone else to accommodate them is bullshit. It’s also getting a bit old.
It looks like the problem had already been resolved to the satisfaction of all passengers when the two men switched. Whatever the guy should have done in terms of booking seats, a helpful passenger ended the problem. Until the FA decided to go on a power trip.
expecting to be able to shift passengers around because you don’t want to sit next to a woman (or a Black person, or an old person, or a MAGA hat person, or a Palestinian person) is off market and a bad precedent for the airline to accept, even if it could have be reasonably easily done in this instance. This passenger could have bought 2 seats, or bought an F class seat on another airline — that is the better overall solution for the airline to offer/encourage, vs. setting any expectation that passengers can rearrange seating on the basis of what is essentially prejudice.
Didn’t an orthodox woman jump off a ski lift into injury rather than be stuck sitting next to Larry David?
Sound like the man should have jumped off the plane rather than annoy everyone else
One may wonder whether the male passengers, presumably wearing Orthodox garb, just made the FAs uncomfortable. Perhaps they didn’t recognize their dress–maybe they even thought they were some sort of Muslims. This seems unlikely, but it’s possible. That would raise issues of ignorance and stereotyping, but at least people can be educated to do better and be forced (whether they really want to or not) to show more tolerance towards other customs. As someone who grew up in a nominally Jewish household, and became religion free a long time ago (rejected a bar mitzvah) I think I can see both sides of this issue, and it just seems like some sort of compromise could have been worked out. Perhaps if the passenger had quietly and calmly discussed his concern before moving the outcome might have been different, and I can respect his beliefs while not understanding them. But as others have said he shouldn’t have put himself in that potential position to begin with. When you enter the wider world you can’t expect it to bend to you either.
The issue was resolved. Peacefully. If the report is correct, the FA the chose to escalet — no create — a conflict.
Delta flies premium flights both into and out of JFK.
Doubtless some will screach ‘anti-semitism’ despite the fact that it is totally clear that anyone uncomfortable sitting next to certain passengers should pay for an extra seat
“I am sick and tired of everyone trying to accommodate every stupid wish by religious nutcases.”
I totally agree. If your belief system is that extreme then stay home or go by your own transportation (car, private plane, boat, whatever). The world should not have to cater to everyone’s needs.
Matt,
Delta also connects the two largest Jewish populations – at least when there isn’t war – just like AA and UA.
Maybe JetBlue should schedule a few TLV flights on their A321NEOs.
This was a case of pure religious stereotyping and it is mind-numbing to believe that a FA for an airline that has a major presence in NYC hadn’t seen it.
It is equally mind-numbing that a captain says that he has to just believe whatever the FAs say. In other words, he doesn’t control anything beyond the cockpit door because the FAs do. Ask the FAA their thoughts on that.
I don’t understand why three orthodox men didn’t just reserve seats together to begin with, or had them assigned together at the airport. As yet another possibility they could have pleasantly approached the gate agents to see that they weren’t seated next to females. The FA seemingly mishandled this but the passengers have an awful lot of blame to themselves, having multiple opportunities before boarding to follow the dictates of their religion without causing issues for other people.
It is funny, the passenger kicked off the flight claims discrimination for being Jewish. But he has no problem discriminating a woman for sitting next to him. Glad he was kicked off the flight, he deserved it.
More trash to make us all stupider. Gary posts so much trash on here and this is no different. I am Jewish and have to 100% say its getting RIDICULOUS that everyone wants the world to bow to their every need. Posting this article is really just bad for all involved but that is the lame trash media stuff that Boarding Area is filled with.
JD–I agree.. 100% agree. so sick f this crap being posted on the internet to make mountains out of mole hills. The guy was discriminating and moving seats when told no to…. ADIOS !! FA’s have enough to deal
Honestly, looks like just another case of FA’s run amok. Doubt it has something linked to antisemitism, but not sure. Will wait for a full detailed report on @Dansdeals – he usually comes up with the full story a few days after an incident involving jewish orthodox community.
To note though:
1. The passenger who’s boyfriend swapped seats all was fine and peaceful – so what the heck got the FA’s so so riled up? Nasty
2. To think Jetblue is concerned about departing on time – LOL. Yeah, they’re doing a bang up job being last place in all US carriers with on time performance for 2023.
JetBlue will probably end up paying up on this one. It is the air carrier, not the pilot in a personal capacity, who is going to be in the hot seat for an discrimination lawsuit. I sure wouldn’t want to try this case to a jury as JetBlue’s lawyer — the FAs look like they were on a real power trip here, and without a legitimate reason the risk of the jury finding that the power trip was motivated by religious hostility is too high. Cf. the McDonell-Douglas test for discrimination, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_burden-shifting . The FA’s actions were such an overreaction that there’s a good chance, in my opinion, that the passengers can show pretext at the final step even if JetBlue can meet its burden at step two.
@Mangar:
Refusing to sit next to a woman on a plane isn’t forcing your religious views on anyone. Asking the airline to move the woman so you don’t have to sit next to her would be.
I have a certain set of morals/beliefs that I don’t HAPPEN to couch in the guise of religion. Many other people have their own set of morals/beliefs, and many of them declare them RELIGIOUS beliefs to get special treatment.
Unfortunately we seem to have decided that declared RELIGOUS beliefs DO get special treatment. And once we’ve crossed that bridge, we don’t get to pick and choose whose beliefs are valid absent actual harm to others.
There is no harm caused by a person moving to a seat not next to a woman.
In a free society, we don’t need to be policing other people’s beliefs based on our own. That practice (should) protect me from not prescribing to popular religious beliefs, but fair is fair, people who declare their beliefs religious get to have their beliefs too.
@Christian: If you’re not booking far enough in advance, 3 seats together is probably not an option.
@Christopher Raehl – Agreed that that could be a possibility. That’s why I laid out three separate sets of times that this could have been addressed before boarding. Surely the gate agents could have looked at a seat map and at least tried to figure something out when approached.
@drrichard: Or if the FA’s just straight objected to the sexism.
Or if a person who is uncomfortable sitting next to a woman just treats women poorly in general.
There are many flavors of ultra-orthodox Jews, some quite accommodating and conscious of their beliefs and they act accordingly – they plan ahead for foreseeable situations, which this one perfectly was. They can purchase an empty seat or they can call the airline and explain the situation – I’m quite sure JetBlue would have been able to quietly accommodate him, it’s not that uncommon a request.
Then there are the ultra-orthodox who are a royal pain to everyone, including their fellow Jews, who expect the world to bend to them. (This is not only a Jewish trait, the world is full of such people, but the Jewish community collectively rolls their eyes at them, as they’re an embarrassment – you want to know where ugly Jewish stereotypes come from, it’s people who act like this. And this type of ultra-Orthodox doesn’t treat his fellow Jews any better than the goyim, and often worse, because he views them as inferior.) This guy is the one who doesn’t plan and thinks he can demand the world bend to him – it’s a power trip. Run into an FA who has the same attitude, and the FA is going to win.
@Christian: If you’re booking late enough that you can’t get 3 seats together, you may be booking late enough that accommodating 3 seats together would almost certainly require moving someone from an aisle/window to a middle seat.
Or maybe the passenger just looked at the seat map, saw empty seats, and figured they’d move if necessary?
I’m at a million+ BIS miles; I’ve never had any FA object to me switching seats within the same cabin outside of regional gets where weight and balance matters. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a passenger to think they can just board the plane and switch to an empty seat or switch with another accommodating passenger.
I’m also not sure GAs should be disclosing the gender of passengers at the gate, and they certainly shouldn’t be reseating people based on gender.
Seems like yet another power trip from another flight attendant(s). Most
likely junior FAs who always have to be in control . I’ve noticed that
these junior FAs are hired to be responsible and diligent yet this is their first ‘real ‘ job from previous jobs like Starbucks, Target , Wal Mart , etc…
The problem is all airlines are hiring the wrong people for this position to fill the quota until the next hiring frenzy . Just my opinion as a frequent traveler .
Airlines are given far too much freedom to trample the rights of their customers. The bar to eject a passenger should be high and the consequences for improperly removing a passenger should be significant.
To all those who comment about orthodox Jews expecting others to change seats, I am curious where in the story you get that from. The guy in question did not necessarily expect anything or ask anyone to switch seats because of him, he just tried to switch from his own seat to an empty one.
As for the FA performance, even if sitting on the empty seat really was a balance issue, since someone suggested to switch seats with him the problem should’ve been solved. The fact that she kept escalating the situation even after it was resolved – and with no real misdeed on the passenger’s end – is highly unprofessional at best, and outright antisemitic at worst.
The weight imbalance caused by their removal from the plane was certainly greater than the minor differences between the individuals.
Pilots should not be given authority for anything other than piloting the plane. There should be video cameras with microphones on-board, and if an FA wants to throw someone off, they should call it in to a remote “expert” on rules and regulations who then views the video and makes a rational/contextual decision.
Power-tripping cabin crew members + FA-kiss-up cockpit crew = this kind of situation too often.
Voluntary same-cabin seat swaps among cabin passengers shouldn’t be a problem unless it involves a problem with the emergency row requirements or a medical/wheelchair/lapchild situation.
Not sure that antisemitism motivated the offloading but nothing surprises me with racist and other bigoted motivations in play publicly at airports and on airplanes.
Is there a misogynistic element involved in demanding a seat change? Arguably, maybe. But if passengers are willing to exchange seats in line with what I covered above, whose business is it really. A lot of people have opinions and demands with which I disagree, but offloading people from planes like this isn’t improving anything in a way as to make me welcome airline actions that involve unnecessary power-tripping and hostility toward passengers.
I do not understand why changing seats on this plane could cause weight and balance issues, yet Southwest has open seating where people can pick wherever they sit, without any restrictions for moving to a new open seat. How does this work on Southwest but not on Jet Blue?
I came across this but I have to tell you, that sitting on the bus or a train or a plane for several hours next to anyone that you are not related to is super icky. In Israel, people just sit that way. No one tells you to and generally no one asks a woman to move. I think that I once had a guy sit within a foot of me on a bus and he APOLOGIZED for intruding on my personal space. In general, we Orthodox do try to seat ourselves accordingly. Sometimes you are told beforehand (maybe by a travel agent or the desk clerk) that the flight isn’t full and you can move after everyone sits down. The real thing is that you have to be respectful and if someone in “charge” tells you to lump it, then you have to do it and try to ask pleasantly. We weren’t there and have no idea what happened. The last time I flew, I had some woman (and I am a woman!) who did not want to sit next to me. In “cattle”, people are touching each other like on a bus and if someone wants to move to an empty seat, why do you care? It is NOT sexism for a man to not want to sit next to a woman. It is respect for woman and that is how I see it as a woman. We are to be respected and HANDS OFF!
I have no idea what happened but I hate when Captains delegate THEIR duty to control their plane to Cabin Crew. Pilots should not and do not have to defer to Cabin Crew, who aren’t trained to make these sorts of decisions and are simply not at the same professional level as pilots. You are the Captain of the ship for a reason. And this is particularly true on JetBlue as while I have usually had good experiences on JetBlue, I’ve also encountered some of the very worst Cabin Crew flying on JetBlue and my sense is that some of them have very little experience and are particularly ill suited for the job.
With that said, while there is deference to airline crew decisions under 49 USC § 44902, it is a Federal Civil Rights violation to discriminate against passengers based on the real or perceived religion or national origin of a passenger. If the Cabin Crew would not have ejected passengers voluntarily switching seats normally – that is certainly my experience in many years of flying – but ejected this bunch based even partially upon religious preference or practice, that would certainly be a prima facie case of a civil rights violation.
Given the surge in overt antisemitism we’ve seen expressed throughout the USA (and Europe) recently, and the need for zero tolerance for it, I certainly hope that this is reported to the US Attorney for the Eastern District of New York’s Civil Rights Bureau so that they can investigate.
The FAs “ reason” for changing seats – balance – was ridiculous.
My son is a pilot for a legacy airline. I’ve already been on a flight where ½,was empty and people were invited by the FAs to sit wherever they wish. This FA’s behavior was clearly antisemitic. Especially when someone quietly offered to switch. Should go back for some re-training.
I have been on mainline flights where passengers have been asked to ask the FAs before moving because of weight and balance.
On A320 or B737 family aircraft, the issue is generally a fairly light load and a high percentage of passengers at the front or back of the plane – usually the front – with not enough weight at the back.
It is very rare for a side to side imbalance be an issue and most people wouldn’t choose to sit all on one side of a plane.
Some seats are preferred and I have been on many airlines that say that you can’t move to a preferred seat “just because”
There still should either be the ability of an FA to offer even a higher paid seat complimentary or to accommodate a situation w/o making such a production.
and the issue is that the situation was calmly resolved among passengers and there was no evidence that a “higher paid” seat move was involved but the FAs went on a power trip and the captain just bent over for the FAs.
NYC is a high cost place to live and it is likely that many B6 crews never reach high enough standards of living compared to other airlines.
Even AA, DL and UA NYC based crews have the opportunity to fly much more longhaul flights out of NYC – which allows more commuting – and all of those airlines also have bases in other parts of the country. While B6 has crew bases in Florida, a smaller percentage of their FAs see those bases than in other lower cost bases for the big 3.
Jake-1, I see what you mean, but someone has to be in charge. Federal Aviation Regulations 91.3 lays this out, “The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.” And that includes everything on board.