Hotel loyalty programs like Marriott Bonvoy promise upgrades to their frequent guests, if rooms are available at check-in, but getting those upgrades can be tough. There are too many elites – anyone with their premium credit card is a Platinum – but hotels play games also.
I recently walked through how some hotel general managers refuse to upgrade guests for business reasons.
- They’d rather leave a suite empty than a regular room, because larger rooms are more expensive to clean – they want to save on housekeepers.
- And late check-out benefits are tough to manage with suites. There are fewer suites, and a guest checking out at 4 p.m. means that room won’t be available to the next customer by 4 p.m. for check-in.
So I walked through one tactic that hotels use to avoid offering upgrades, when they want to both save money on housekeeping and remain compliant with program rules (some hotels don’t worry about following the rules, but those that do can use this dirty trick). They don’t clean the suites until they’re booked. A suite is only considered ‘available’ for a guest upgrade if it isn’t booked for the entire length of the stay, and it is ready (including being cleaned and inspected) at the time of check-in.
A housekeeping manager describes the tactic of not cleaning rooms until and unless they’re booked by paying guests.
I’m a housekeeping manager in NYC. Right now we are under 50% occupancy. A lot of our housekeepers are on layoff. We clean as many rooms are we can with the Room attendant we have. Being under 50% we don’t have to rush to clean the whole hotel and we just bring enough RA to clean what we need to cover arrivals and a bit more. Whatever dirty rooms are left are rolled over to the following day. Front desk always let’s us know if there specific suites/rooms needed so we can assign to have clean.
Suites that haven’t been booked by paying guests get skipped for cleaning, thus are not ‘available’ at check-in for upgrades. If a paying guest books a suite, then “[f]ront desk would let us know they need the suites and we have them cleaned.”
And this is why suites are available for paid bookings, but not available for upgrade, even though they’re standard suites that aren’t occupied by other guests and thus supposed to be part of the upgrade pool.
A Hyatt guest shares,
This just happened to me last month at Grand Hyatt Washington DC. Claimed no upgrades available while still selling the suites online. Front desk manager finally admitted it wasn’t available because it was not cleaned yet. I was checking in after 6pm.
I frequently check if I can make a paid booking for a suite right as I’m about to check into a hotel. That way I know if a suite is ‘available’. And it’s usually worked for me, to push back when the front desk inevitably tells me that no suites are available.
However, technically the hotel is correct that they can sell a room (it isn’t occupied) but also that the same room is not available for upgrade (it hasn’t been marked as inspected clean at the time I’m checking in). Some hotels have figured this out as a strategy to avoid offering upgrades, while some hotels just don’t clean the rooms – and as a consequence they aren’t available for upgrade – in order to cut down on housekeeping costs.
Some hotels already have had the suites cleaned but hold off on having the suites marked as having been inspected as clean because they want to reserve the suites for direct sale later or other more selective assignment.
@ Gary — If you can find such a rate, have a friend book a paid suite that can be cancelled right up to check-in,
Then, have them cancel right before you arrive at the hotel. Problem possibly solved.
Is it just me or does Marriott always seem to be mentioned in these anti-guest trickery stories. Lately though, Hyatt has been sneaking in too.
And who’s mentioned in this post?
I rest my case.
As it turns out, the quoted line can be said about every single hotel loyalty program out there, whose T&C all state something like World of Hyatt’s, which is that “the best room available [for elite upgrade] will be determined by the applicable hotel or resort in its sole discretion. In simpler English, it means that the T&C of every program give individual hotels in every chain (not just Marriott, which has been targeted of late) the exclusive right to “play games”, including those mentioned here!
One hopes that every self-anointed “travel guru” or “thought leader in travel” would, at long last, understand that very simple reality and spare us these recurrent posts that are nothing more than masturbatory exercises that won’t change a thing other than to raise false expectations among their sycophants.
DCS mention “masturbatory exercises” which is literally every post he/her/it makes. Douche
Easy solution: don’t stay at hotels that play games like that.
Bottom line is that you can’t expect anything from hotel status anymore except the bare minimum: free breakfast, late checkout, waived resort fees, etc…unless you are a frequent guest at that particular hotel.
@Brodie — I doubt that you have the intellectual capacity to understand what the phrase even means, so get lost.
The elite status illusion is alive and well
This is why I will never understand people chasing elite status.
REAL upgrades are rare for most. More often than not you have to fight for your benefits.
Just not worth it.
Marriott has taken status to a new low.
Hotels across various brands are playing this kind of customer-unfriendly game.
And given how some hotel owners/operators have hotels across multiple major hotel brands, the ideas spread from brand to brand and region to region as management share approaches with other hotel management in the region and other hotel management across regions where they either have properties or know company and industry colleagues. “Profitable” ways to stiff elite status customers unfortunately is only growing in popularity in the industry.
I have long suspected often the sweet is actually cleaned but they intentionally don’t change the status on the property management system.
Hotels, like airlines, are seeking more ways to make money. It would appear that their best tactic is go stingy on FF/travelers.
So, who screams the loudest? Quite obviously, it’s the travelers whose rooms and tickets are paid by their corporate bosses. Next up, the bosses get to choose which airlines you fly and which hotel’s pillow you get to cry on.
No matter what you holler, you are not entitled.
The Courtyard Tulsa also used housekeeping hours as an excuse to deny late checkout: “all of
Our housekeepers go home at 3 so the latest we will ever extend checkout is 2pm.” I don’t recall housekeeping hours in the Ts&Cs. This was in a Sunday when they clearly had very low occupancy.
The Ritz FLL also looked they had a lot of suites this weekend based on occupancy (and a quick check for available suites during our stay confirmed this.). The desk agent did some perfunctory typing on the keyboard and apologized they were all committed. Sometimes I just want to go to my room and not argue about this kind of thing when I’m on vacation.
This is NOT exclusive to Marriott.
100 nights in Hyatt. Spent probably close to 45K USD last year
Went to all inclusive property and was basically told my Globalist status didn’t mean much and when I quoted Hyatt policy on upgrades was told we don’t do it that way here . I could do paid upgrade or take room I purchased.
I opened a case and hotel continued to lie about what was and was not available despite me having screen captures at time of checkin and than just stopped responding
IAD_flyer, you are correct in your suspicion. It’s most noticeable at hotels where the housekeepers are all gone by or even well before 6pm, at 8pm there is supposedly no cleaned suite for an upgrade, but then at 9pm the last suite is booked and occupied.
I’ve heard that kind of housekeeping excuse used too that Michael experienced.
The interesting thing is that it’s often cheaper/easier for hotels to get housekeepers to work Sunday late afternoon/evening and Monday morning than to get the work done Saturday evening, Sunday morning and early Sunday afternoon. But even otherwise, the hotels like to deny late checkout so they can squeeze as many room cleanings in as they can without paying for extra housekeeping hours. The hotels willing to sacrifice the loyalty program elite status customers on the late checkout benefit do so because they want to go cheap on housekeeping costs.
Paying for what you want specifically is usually best, but even then it’s not guaranteed. I’ve paid for specific rooms with particular views only to show up for check-in and learn that either that room isn’t available or I’ve been ‘upgraded’ to an inferior or different room that I did not want. There are games being played on us and it’s really challenging to win against these big companies.
@Gene
That’s what we call an unethical life-pro tip. Perfectly ‘legal’ just like how the hotels ‘unethically’ do not upgrade you even though a better room is available but they don’t ‘technically’ have to.
@Mantis
The problem with your theory is that we, the consumers, do not have readily available access to that information (whether the hotel is dishonorable with upgrades), unless someone like Gary posts about it, and even then, it’s only anecdotally accurate, not objective or consistent.
@ Mets Fan NC, I’ve heard pretty consistently the AI offerings by Hyatt barely give two shits about status. As much as AI offerings is a focus of Hyatt HQ, they seem not to realize (or perhaps care) that these places simply don’t give a shit about the Hyatt brand outside of the increased revenue it offers. Given the nature of AI properties, the only real elite perk they have to offer is a better room, and even that seems like something they’re loathe to do.
Metfainnyc@ name and shame
@dcs how is hilton better in it’s terms?
My experiece is that this has been a lot more of an issue in the US than in other countries. I have had a lot better experience with upgrades in Europe and Australia. Has anyone else found this? I am curious if this is generally the case that in other countries, chain hotels treat their customers better.
@ DCS — Games with suites is why Hyatt Gloablist and InterContinental Royal Ambassador are both VASTLY superior to Hilton Diamond. These are my family’s programs, and we ALWAYS stay in a suite that is guaranteed through either a Suite Upgrade (Hyatt) or booking the proper mid-level room category (InterContinental). We also ALWAYS have restaurant (and/or Club Lounge) breakfast and 4 PM checkout. In comparison, Hilton and Marriott are a joke.
First, contrary to the prevalent misconception, I have never claimed Hilton to be “better” or “best”. That is what we are constantly told Hyatt or World of Hyatt is supposed to be.
Second, just a little bit of English comprehension will go a long way toward preventing stupid questions like @Issac’s above. Let me just cut and paste from my earlier comment and see if it will sink in this time around:
Should I also explain what every single hotel loyalty program out there or every program means?
G’day.
@Gene — Please spare me the same old discredited and mindlessly repeated drivel….
G’day.
@ DCS — My personal experience is not discredited drivel, but facts. You’re just too stubborn to listen to anyone else.
Like I said, spare me the mindless regurgitation of drivel that you’ve pick up from around the web, but especially from this site. You wouldn’t know ‘facts’ if they hit you in the face.
guflyer is on the mark. The greater the distance away from the big credit card elite status homeland (of the US), the better the hotels generally treat the loyalty program elite status customers. And it shows with suite upgrades too. But the upgrades also get worse as and where the China market elite status players become big and become more relevant to a destination.
Hyatt and IHG are indeed much better about suite upgrades than Hilton.
I was an IC RA for a couple of years back in the day. The limited footprint of IC branded properties, and the ambiguousness of requal requirements, sent me to HH, LT Diamond now. Never looked back, with the exception of the Le Grand in Paris- but where i havent been for at least 12 years.
That is the standard Pavlovian response to years of fact-free, conditioned brain-washing by this site. I know this because you would not be able to provide any objective evidence supporting the stupid assertion.
BTW, I am a Hilton Honors LT Diamond and an IHG Diamond Ambassador, meaning that I can factually compare at least these two programs, and guess what? You are dead wrong.
Goodbye.
@ DCS — You are NOT an InterContinental Royal Ambassador or a Hyatt Globailst, so you have no clue what you are talking about. Believe it or not, it is actually possible to stay in 4 and 5 star InterContinentals and Park Hyatts around the world and ALWAYS stay in a suite via upgrade. Too bad you can’t say the same for your beloved Hilton.
@Gene — I am not a Globalist, but you are not a LT Diamond, of which there are even fewer out there, either. I spend more nights in suite upgrades than any Globalist or IC RA. Guaranteed. You have no proof for any of the claims that you or this site have made for years. So, please take your drivel elsewhere to someone who cares.
@ DCS — Of course you do since apparently you stay in a Hilton suite 365 days per year. That’s what people with no life do.
I am a Hyatt Globalist and was IHG Diamond Ambassador until a couple of days ago. I also travel with Hilton Diamond. Hilton’s the worst of the lot with comp upgrades to suites when they are available for sale at check-in. Hilton is also the worst of the lot with regard to late check-out. On top of that, Hilton is worse for breakfast benefit than Hyatt and IHG for published top tier elite status members.
Nah, I have a life as a gainfully employed as a full professor the medical school of Ivy League Medical university in Mahattan, living in a great apartment with an incredible view of the famous Manhattan skyline where I spend my nights when not on the road. What I will do, instead, is to address your earlier comment below because it is a way to get you to shut up and go away for good:
You laid down an objective metric of success. The terms are yours, so, therefore, the following should get you to can it once and for all and go away forever. Pay attention.
Between December 3, 2024 and January 5, 2025 — i.e, a mere 4-week time span — I stayed at the following five 5-star Hilton hotels, where I was proactively upgraded to a suite each time, 1-3 day before check-in date:
— WA Chicago
— Conrad Singapore Orchard
— Conrad Shanghai
— WA Bangkok
— Conrad Hong Kong
How do you verify the claim? Simple: I shared the hard, incontrovertible evidence a few days ago with none other than @Gary Leff. Ask him privately to deny or confirm it. It’s up to him.
Whatever happens, it’s checkmate.
@GUWonder — The preceding message is for you as well. Just go away and please don’t forget to take the old, mindless, and fact-free drivel with you.
Who knows what rates you are booking, but most of my stays are 1 night stays booked on the day of check-in at the cheapest price available for any room at the properties at the time of booking on the hotel apps. With Hilton last year, never a comp upgrade to a suite. With IHG, a comp upgrade to a suite about 1/3 of the time. With Hyatt, about 1/4 of the time.
Parting Shot
For comparison and some perspective, during the same 4-week span as above, I also stayed at InterContinental Pattaya City and voco Orchard Singapore. At both IHG hotels, I was told that as an IHG One Diamond member, I had been “upgraded” to better rooms. However, the “better” rooms looked and felt just like the standard rooms that I’d booked!
At the voco Singapore, where I’d stayed countless times when the hotel was Hilton Singapore and I had automatic Exec Lounge access and had gotten upgraded many time “executive suites” as HH Diamond, I got no access to the Exec Lounge as an IHG Diamond, and was told point blank when I inquired that suite upgrades for IHG Diamonds are possible only at ICs !!! The only bright spot was that at both the IC Pattaya City and the voco Singapore, I got free full restaurant breakfast as my Diamond “welcome amenity.” 😉
Like I said, there is no comparison between IHG Diamond vs. HH Diamond, much less vs. LT Diamond…
So far, I haven’t had an issue getting a suite upgrade at check-in if I can show it’s for sale online.
Sometimes they tell me that a late checkout is not possible for the suite because it is booked the next day, and I can choose the suite or the late checkout. I feel like this is fair.
I should also note that I tend to travel to the same areas and have hotels I know don’t play games with upgrades so they get my bookings by default, so win-win.
Ridiculous comment, but when you are against the ropes, you’ll try anything. Well, there is no wiggle room here. I provided the info to Gary Leff as well, but here it is.
— WA Chicago ( 1 night: 95K points using my Aspire free night cert).
— Conrad Singapore Orchard (5 nights on points, 5th night free)
— Conrad Shanghai (5 nights, cash rate because redemption yielded less than 0.5cpp)
— WA Bangkok (3 nights on points)
— Conrad Hong Kong (5 nights on points)
Check the points rates yourself but all were at 70K/night. Hyatt does not give you the 4th or 5th night free, so the above redemptions would have cost you a bundle.
I gave you my recent experience with Hilton and told you how you can independently verify it. Do it! I am not interested yours unless you can verify it, especially since you clearly have an axe to grind. IHG fared badly in my experience.
Give it a rest, especially when your back is against the ropes!
“Check the points rates yourself but all were at least 70K/night.”
@ DCS — Whatever happens, you are an apatment dweller. I would never be home either.
@Gene — Beaten like a drum at your own game and still spewing drivel. At the very least, you could have the decency and common sense to apologize for getting it so wrong all these years, and leave.
Anyway, I am outta here. I will just leave you with the details of the costs of the 5-stay trip with proactive suite upgrades that did you in. Relatively long stays, most on points: not exactly a favorable formula for getting suite upgrades, but I did, every single time:
— WA Chicago ( 1 night costing 95K points paid with my Aspire free night cert).
— Conrad Singapore Orchard (5 nights costing 276K points in total, 5th night free)
— Conrad Shanghai (5 nights, paid cash because redemption yielded less than 0.5cpp)
— WA Bangkok (3 nights costing 280K points in total)
— Conrad Hong Kong (5 nights costing 240K points in total, 5th night free)
Total Cost in HH points with two 5th award nights free: 891,000.
Would have cost 1,047,000 HH points in total without the two 5th award nights free.
In terms of Hyatt points, the 4 reward stays would have
1,047,000 HH points * (10.5 WoH points/32 HH points) = ~343,000 WoH points in total,
which I doubt many WoH members can still manage to earn these days 😉
Have a nice life!
The arrogance and rudeness of @DCS is supreme. I pity his students. As for Marriott, supposed bellwether of the hotel industry, their contempt for hospitality, ethics, compliance, and human rights puts them top of the league for corporate chicanery
Oops! Switched these two:
— WA Bangkok ( 3 nights costing 240K points in total)
— Conrad Hong Kong (5 nights costing 280K points in total, 5th night free)
Bye-bye!
@ I apologize for you having to live in an apartment.
Dear John: You are clearly very stupid and confused if you think that I am “arrogant and rude” and that my students ought to be pitied because I exposed and debunked bogus claims that you too believed to be gospel truth. In the real world, that’s called being a winner…
I have no time to engage yet another ignoramus. Get lost.
@ DCS — The only ignoramus posting on this thread is YOU. Why can’t you simply accept the fact that Hilton is inferior and move along?
The man is a glutton for punishment!
@Gene — You are insane because that is exactly where you started. Are you now wanting a do-over to get me to just accept what you already specularly failed to prove? Even for you that is really stupid. It is right up there with gems like below — evidence of a massive whiplash for realizing just how wrong and stupid you exposed yourself to be:
Can anyone be so dense that they do not even know that of the 1.6 million or so people who live in Manhattan the wide majority (more than 75% to be more precise) rent an apartment? Furthermore, that anyone would think that renting an apartment in a major world city is something to apologize for is evidence of a severe gray matter deficit.
If I were you, @Gene, I would hide under a rock, never to come out again. In fact, I will do you a favor. I will just stop humiliating you since you clearly cannot stop yourself from continuing to do it to yourself, and are now truly pathetic.
@ DCS — You are only humiliating yourself. Yes, I am well aware that the wide majority of people living in Manhattan can’t afford to buy an apartment in Manhattan. That’s just one reason it is a horrible place to live. If I had to live in such a place, I too, would spend all of my days in a Hilton hotel suite. I think it is fantastic that you have found an escape from your hell!
Site host: Please close this thread to stop a commenter from continuing to self-abuse and self-denigrate!
Hey DCS, Manhattan apartments don’t have a view of the Manhattan skyline.
The Ivy League is a sports association with no bearing on the quality of research produced by faculty in any particular department of any particular member college or university.
G’day!
[portions of comment removed – gary]
@Eileen — Assuming that is where I live, Roosevelt Island is part of Manhattan (including area code 212). All else is just trash talk. Good luck.
@DCS you have serious issues my dear
@John — Ok, you got me. I am now on the couch. Go ahead and tell me about my so-called “issues”, which, I am sure, will end up laying bare your own, just as it did of those tried the same thing before you upthread. I guarantee it. Go on. Let’s here about my ‘issues’.
There are Manhattan apartments which do have a view of a lot of the Manhattan Skyline. For example, there are apartments in the LES of Manhattan where some of the higher floor apartments and the rooftops have great views of the Manhattan skyline. And a lot of other apartments elsewhere in Manhattan have a view of a part of the Manhattan skyline too.
Roosevelt Island is a separate island from Manhattan. Merely being lumped together with the Manhattan borough doesn’t make Roosevelt the same island as Manhattan.
Roosevelt Island is part of Manhattan. Period. Its inhabitants have one of the most breathtaking views of the Manhattan skyline. The Island is also one of the official viewing sites of most Macy’s July 4th fireworks. You can hyperventilate all you want, as usual. It won’t change those facts.
G’day.
The defense by DCS of Roosevelt Island is emblematic of his biggest issue: lack of pragmatism.
Manhattan subsumes Roosevelt Island in administrative terms only. As noted by GUWonder, Roosevelt Island is physically, geographically separate. Ask an unbiased New Yorker about Manhattan and they will think of midtown and below (no coincidence this defines the new congestion pricing zone) as well as the UES and UWS up to ~100th St. Exact thresholds vary but far north neighborhoods like Washington Heights are even moreso part of Manhattan than Roosevelt Island–because Washington Heights is physically within the island boundaries of Manhattan–but so far uptown as to not be walkable to anything of interest with respect to the arts, culture, entertainment, retail, dining, high finance and professional services that made Manhattan what it is.
Along the same pragmatic lines, Hilton hotel points are as valuable as any other in only the uncommon case of a consumer who earns points strictly within a hotel program. Every hotel chain’s points scheme amounts to a ~15% rebate. But the reason everybody but DCS says Hilton points are worth less is that an overwhelming majority of points earned by consumers are through credit card programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards, AMEX Membership Rewards, BILT Rewards. Points from card programs transfer 1-to-1 to all hotels. To illustrate, 50,000 BILT points transfer to either 50,000 Hilton points or 50,000 Hyatt points. The former equals one night at a standard full service Hilton. The latter equals four nights at a standard full service Hyatt (e.g. Regency). Hyatt points are the most valuable. It is laughable to suggest any different.
The most incredulous issue with DCS is his unabashed, shameful level of arrogance. He fancies himself an Ivy League professor. No respectable Ivy League professor would describe themselves that way in an academic context, let alone on an anonymous travel blog where credentials mean nothing because a comment ought to stand alone. But shall we have a look at the scholarly (peer reviewed publication) record of DCS over the last several years? Let’s count the number of publications on which he was lead author, by year.
Number of first-author pubs in 2024: 0
Number of first-author pubs in 2023: 0
Number of first-author pubs in 2022: 0
Number of first-author pubs in 2021: 1
Now let’s count the number of citations which those pubs have received to date.
Total number of scholarly citations to the above publications, to date: 0
Whoever you are you do not deserve to be in this medium. Whatever you think you know about scholarly work is clearly flawed.
I call upon the site host to enforce the most basic standard of discussion boards, which is respect for privacy.
Goodbye, Eileen, or whoever you are. Forever. The soapbox is yours. Knock yourself out.
@DCS. For starters, I would suggest you have anger and self-awareness issues with potential NPD disorder. Such is your clear contempt for other people, one wonders what your mission on here is…
@John — Read the thread. You will see that I tried to avoid being drawn into the mindless debate that finally took place, with commenter(s) ending up exposed themselves as clueless.
You are baking up the wrong tree.
@John — Read the thread. You will see that I tried to avoid being drawn into the mindless debate that finally took place, with the two commenter(s) ending up exposing themselves as clueless.
You are baking up the wrong tree.
Transferring BILT points 1:1 to Hyatt points vs. 1:1 to Hilton points, what’s wrong with that? Simple: It’s apples vs. oranges because it ignores the cost of acquiring 50K Hilton points vs. that of acquiring 50K Hyatt points?
We could use just credit cards earnings, but it is actually not true that everyone earns their hotel points through credit cards. That is true only for World of Hyatt, which runs almost no global promos, and has the lowest % bonus on purchased points, making these the most expensive to purchase.
50K WoH points will cost you : 50K WoH points/(10.5WoH points/$) = $4,762
50K HH points will cost you : 50K HH points/(32HHpoints/$) = $1,563
See the problem with the highly simplistic comparison of 50K WoH points vs. 50K HH points? One is comparing WoH points that would cost 3X more ( $4,762) to acquire than HH points ( $1,563) !!! Apples vs. Oranges, which is why the “return on the dollar” or RoD is the correct metric to use to compare various points currencies. !!! Things can be even worse depending on how much it cost to acquire the 50K BILT points that are transferred 1:1.
Q.E.D
That is how truly clueless you are, “Eileen” .
Had to post multiple small pieces because entire comment won’t post as one piece.
Gary — please toss this impostor out of here, for the integrity of your site.
G’day
@ DCS — I guess you finally realized that your “all hotel points are equal” nonsense was incorrect after all. Make up your mind. Which is it today?
Someone here with a better memory or search skills than I please point to the numerous comments where DCS insistsed that “all hotel points are equal”!
For your edification, the comment affirms it, but, of course, you would know nothing about that, and clearly never will.
Final Parting Shot
“Eileen”, darlin’, I wanted to see just how much more rope you would give me to hang you with, but I guess I will have to do with what you already provided, which is plenty.
If you knew the first thing about scholarly research, you would be aware that first-authorship on publications is reserved for postdoctoral fellows and junior professors who are still trying to make a name for themselves, rather than for senior/full professors who are running labs as mentors.
Show me a full professor who is first author on many papers from his or her lab, and I will show you someone who is a lousy mentor because (s)he is taking advantage of junior investigators to promote him/herself, when it should be the other way around.
That is how truly clueless you are, “Eileen” . One can only hope that the only reason you have not shown up is that you’ve been tossed out of here.
DCS needs to be thanked for being an example. An example of how digging one’s self into a deeper and deeper hole distracts from the points made earlier and undermines the arguments used on behalf of a company providing services to frequent travelers.
?????? (☉_ ☉) ??????
No more back-and-forth? I find it fun to listen to pathetic posters who imagine their credentials are impressive. It’s kind of like Andy on The Office thinking his constant reference to Cornell is impressive. Or, DJT and 2 Broke Girls and Wharton.