There’s a group associated with a law firm challenging vaccine mandates at airlines, US Freedom Flyers and this is their new video featuring a pilot making a rather dramatic case.
@cellsaucenutrition I never thought in my life I would have to make this video. ###fightback ##freedom ##airlines
I’d make five observations about this video,
- The complaints about mask mandates are odd since pilots don’t have to wear masks in the cockpit. They take their masks off, while passengers have to wear them. The discussion of how masks impinge on freedom distracts from the argument about bodily autonomy.
- Like many pilots, he has a side job. (The most common side business seems to be insurance.) So it’s odd to suggest that a vaccine mandate forces him to make a choice about whether to feed his family. He could fly for another airline (regionals do not at this point have the same vaccine requirements, though he’d lose seniority and earn less) or go all-in on his business.
- He suggests American’s once had the freedom not to be vaccinated. That’s true. There didn’t used to be vaccines. But the imagery of American’s founding is odd since George Washington required Continental Army soldiers to be exposed to small pox to build up their immunity and avoid outbreaks at crucial moments in the war. (Contra popular mythology, he didn’t merely require ‘vaccination’ since the small pox vaccine had not yet been developed, he actually required variolation.)
- It seems reasonable to me for a company to require vaccination for its employees. Sick employees wreak havoc on a schedule, and outbreaks among large groups of employees is a real risk. American’s pilots are threatening to leave rather than be vaccinated, undermining the nation’s holiday travel plans. But not getting vaccinated could have the same result.
- American Airlines and every airline that’s not O.G. United is requiring vaccination only because the Executive Branch has told them they have to or lose out on government subsidies. They aren’t making the decision so they can offer a reliable operation, they’re making it so they can continue picking taxpayer pockets as a government contractor. I don’t think these airlines really has the moral high ground here. And no U.S. airline is requiring vaccines for passengers, this isn’t about passenger health.
Last week American Airlines employees were protesting at company headquarters over the requirement that they show proof of vaccination by November 24 or start the process of termination. There will be a medical and religious exemption process as well. One pastor sells exemption letters.
While the video is compelling it’s a classic slippery slope argument. The same arguments could be made against every single regulation: seat belts, driver’s license requirements, requiring a medical license, or even requiring a pilot’s license. In some way they all chip away at an individual’s freedom. Are they proposing anarchy?
So let me get this straight.
A first officer of 18 years (either no ambition, or worse, no skills to be a captain) has put himself on an anti-vax pedestal.
Give me a break.
Losers will be losers…
A key story to watch has to be Southwest Airline (LUV’s) cancellations which very much appears to be the result of employee resistance to vaccine mandates. LUV cancelled 1/4 of its flights yesterday and is already past that level today and says it is due to weather and air traffic control. The problem w/ LUV’s explanation is all airlines use the same ATC space and no one else is having anywhere near the same problem.
There have been US legislators that have been warning for weeks that vaccine mandates would result in employees leaving the workforce and that is very likely going to be the case, whether temporarily or permanently. Given the high profile nature of the airline industry, it isn’t a surprise that a Texas-based airline with a purportedly low vaccination rate would be one of the first large-scale casualties of vaccine mandates.
@Tim Dunn,
An excellent observation!
These same airlines do not allow “revealing” dress. You have to wear pants, you have to wear a seat belt, but the constitution allows for different rights with a mask?
Let ‘em leave. I’ll take 6-12 months of erratic schedule performance and they can go find another career. Some UA employees howled but in the end, only 1% said they’d give up their jobs. Tall hat, no cattle.
And it’s not like AA is running a tight ship right now anyway.
On the way out, I hope the door doesn’t hit them where the good Lord split them. Good riddance, as a passenger why would I want to put up with the havoc of unforeseeable cancellations because these jackasses couldn’t be bothered to get vaccinated.
If a pilot can’t follow basic science, I’m not sure I trust them flying a plane. We’ve tolerated anti-vaxxers for years because they could do so because the vast majority of people made the right choice. The pandemic has shown us what happens when vaccines don’t exist or aren’t widely adopted. Enough with people deciding they’re smarter than science.
Stephen,
first of all many pilots choose to not upgrade to captain or fly a larger airplane specifically so they can get better schedules – quality of life – and they might make more money by being better able to get voluntary overtime.
And when one service after another in the US gets more erratic, you and others might not be quite as quick to dismiss the power of people to say “no.” Supply chain problems exist all over the US. Do you think truckers are all vaccinated? how about nurses and other hospital staff? We can’t afford to have people walk off the job to avoid taking the jab.
And the bigger point is that vaccines help YOU not get ill. If you believe in vaccines, then what other people do doesn’t hurt you. If you are that frightened of the unvaccinated, you don’t really believe in the vaccines.
signed,
a rational vaccinated person.
He is a hero for standing up to tyranny. What in the world has the USA become where people no longer have bodily autonomy?!
Tim Dunn, you did it again! Your alleged “facts” and misinformation strike again. Let alone your own personal stupidity. First of all, this guy flies for a regional company, which means, pay is already pretty depressed anyways. For 18 years now!! AKA a loser!! By all standards. Second of all, unvaccinated assholes who don’t get the jab are the new Petri dish for different virus iterations. That means, that new virus mutations keep festering amongst this group. After time, vaccines don’t offer the levels of protection to stop these new variants. It’s a scientific fact. Just ask DrFauci and the staff at the NIH. Please stop floating your disinformation and BS since you KNOW it’s not true.
Tim Dunn,
Unfortunately, you really have absolutely zero idea what you’re talking about regarding vaccines. Rather than waste time explaining, do your own homework and find out how vaxes work. Please don’t say you did, you’d be lying.
United recently held a job fair and they were inundated with applications. The reason, as cited by a number of applicants, was their mandate. So while there may be a short-term glitch for low level employees choosing to self-terminate, I suspect the pilot issue will be short-lived. Few people “choose” not to be promoted, and even those who do would lose seniority if they decided to take their skills elsewhere…. Not something you want to do as a pilot.
So goo riddance to the morons who are too stupid to get vaxed. They obviously lack knowledge, the same as you, and leaves one wondering….. Do I really want them flying my plane anyway?
I do understand quite well.
the only people that are disconnected from reality are those that are worried about what the unvaccinated do. They are not a threat to you but to themselves.
It doesn’t matter where the guy works or what seat he flies. There are a large number of unvaccinated Americans that are willing to stand up – and the issue isn’t just in the US.
Vaccine mandates don’t make the world safer; it stops severe disease among the unvaccinated. As the economy falls apart and products become every harder to get, some people will finally realize that pushing people to do something they don’t want to do is a bad idea
signed,
a rational vaccinated perosn
Love that people are waking up to fake science!
These aren’t vaccines.,
They don’t prevent the disease.
They don’t stop people from spreading it.
They reduce the risk of obese and old people dying from it.
That’s it.
You all are so polarized and invested in ‘team force people to do what YOU say, you are blinded to reality l’
Sad. And extremely anti science.
Tim Dunn,
Again, your response makes it quite clear you have zero idea how vaccines work. I don’t mean little, I mean “zero”. You’re profoundlly ignorant. Before responding anymore, please go do some significant reading as you simply sound foolish(see- reddit thread “confidentlyincorrect”).
It isn’t the mandate that works, it’s the people who get vaxed, even if it’s only because they’re forced. The unvaxed are a threat to you, tome and to the world at large. Again… read up on vaccines…Can’t stress this enough.
It’s absolutely going on worldwide. That shows nothing more than the world is filled with plenty of stupid people(see- people freebasing horsey juice & jello bleach shots).
The problems with the economy and labor aren’t the result of the unvaxed protesting, it’s the result(in part, as it goes deeper) of industries losing people to Covid(see chip shortage-not potato), for one.
Don,
You left your tin foil hat at my local Tractor Supply. Oh…and they have your horsey juice ready for you….and a feed bag.
What a bubble head
The poor pilot is equating freedom with public health. In order to enjoy freedom you must be alive and this pilot shouldn’t decide who does and doesn’t get to live. Get vaccinated!
If the vaccine works, then why does everybody need to be vaccinated, wear masks, and follow social distancing. If they don’t work, then why would everybody mandated to get it? Control and distraction.
This post is about the USA. Prior to the Biden Authoritarian Regime, Americans had the right to decide things about their body. Not even North Korea would do something like this.
I am vaccinated and encourage people to get vaccinated. however, I feel it insane to fine business 700k for each unvaccinated worker and cause people to lose their livelihoods. There aren’t provisions for people who have natural immunity (which is more effective than vaccines – follow the science).
There is now such hatred against non-vaccinated people to distract from what’s really happening in this country.
I do agree with Gary that the vaccine mandates from the airlines have nothing to do with the passengers’ health but are pure and simple political decisions. Our current politicians masterfully divided Americans into vaccinated and unvaccinated and got one group both scared and angry of another. As far as the “science” argument, I encourage you to google and read “The Peril of Politicizing Science – ACS Publications:”. That opinion article has nothing to do with vaccine mandates but rather sheds some light on a rapidly growing politicization of science.
Mrs W,
You, like Tim Dunn, are showing you, quite literally, know absolutely about vaccines or how they work. So thanks for making this easy.
First- ALL vaccines….not some, not most but ALL vaccines are less than 100% effective. If I remember correctly, the measles vaccine was the most effective ever(at 97%). That resulted in measles being declared eradicated in or around1999….Until dopes, like you, decided they knew more than the people who actually know what they’re talking about, and decided their kids didn’t need to be vaxed…. Duh—–measles coming back. Luckily, not with a vengeance as most people aren’t that stupid.
To make this easy for people like you…..Look on youtube( where you get most of your sciency info- the rest from QAnon) and lookup Penn and Teller on vaccines. You won’t do this as you’d actually learn something….designed for people like you to comprehend.
BTW- Biden doesn’t have a mandate in effect(yet) for businesses. Businesses decided, on their own, when he announced he was planning on that, to move forward with them. They were essentially looking for cover to do what they wanted to do anyway.
There’s a reason more educated people run the overwhelming majority of large businesses in this country, they understand stuff like this. It isn’t important for stupid people to understand, in the end, but sometimes they need to be protected from themselves….and others need to be protected from them too.
So we do that.
And it’s comical when you say….Not even N Korea would do that. They’ll shoot you for trying to escape the country, they’ll let their people starve to death rather than take outside help but MY GOD!!! they won’t make them get vaxed. Thanks for proving my point on intellect.
@W, I got sent to the hospital on the exact same day I was to be vaccinated. Natural immunity or whatever you choose to call it is not better than the vaccine. For the simple reason that the risk in contracting the disease is enormously bigger than getting vaccinated. Thus it is better for all of society to be vaccinated than to get ill. Breakthrough infections are the demonstration, people with this kind of infection get mild symptoms, no sequelae, and mostly 1 in several thousand, don’t get to be hospitalized or die. This in turn makes for a healthier population and better medical attention for those who do get sick. So get vaccinated and avoid the evolution of new variants. It’s your best protection
A few thoughts:
The vaccines on the market today were developed for a different strain of covid than is currently circulating. These therapeutics do help lessen the severity of the covid infection and lessen the likelihood you will be hospitalized or die from Covid. The body’s immunity (based on individual physiology) against covid coming from these therapeutics wanes over time (several months) hence the booster push. We haven’t been told whether this is due to the vaccines not being developed to cover the delta variant or because the vaccine just stimulates the development of the spike protein portion of the covid virus. The thought is that the spike protein will be a common feature of any future variant. But who knows?
Natural immunity develops due to getting the virus and reacting to the total virus. This has been shown to be more effective against covid 19. This immunity has been shown to be longer lasting also probably because it stimulates immunity to various portions of the virus.
Who knows if natural immunity will protect against delta or other new variants? But so far, it has been shown to be effective in preventing illness.
Natural immunity has not been discussed enough, although Gotleib and others are starting to speak out for at least considering whether or not a person with natural immunity should be required to get the vaccine.
People who have not been vaccinated can become ill or not depending on their own physiological health and viral load at the time of infection. They can also spread the virus asymptotically. But so can vaccinated people.
Vaccination does not stop the spread of covid 19 so let’s take that off the table.
Hospitalizations are more common among the unvaccinated. So if you are in a high risk group, it’s in your self interest to lessen your chances of severe consequences by getting one of these vaccines or a booster shot if your immune response is waning.
Should the entire country be split down the middle and our economy wrecked because of the unknown and unknowable? As confident as people seem to be, there are few answers. And some of the most strident opinions out there have proven to be false. So don’t be in too big a hurry to condemn people for hesitating.
Everyone is getting off-point.
“[Fill in the blank] is a requirement of ongoing employment with our company”.
To those responding to Tim Dunn, you are wasting your time. He is the person to whom Seneca and Adam Smith referred. That is, a person bound to his position. His is also the person about whom Bonjovi sang. That is, “You live for the fight when the fight is all you got.”
Soon immigration and abortion policy will come into the mix.
He will be fired now anyway for violating the Company media policy … CIAO !
It’s interesting to me that Americans have lapped up the virus vax BS like it’s some sort of miracle. Let’s see … it was rushed to market under incredible political pressure, it’s long-term effects are completely unknown … sure, let’s all get some. I got vaccinated because I didn’t want to wear a mask at my volunteer job out in the open air. But if my ears turn green in a couple of years I won’t be surprised … and I’m old enough not to care.
I don’t want him to be my pilot under any circumstances. Total failure of reasoning ability. Gaslighted. This is a once in a century rare massive pandemic affecting the entire planet. Very unusual circumstances (unless you were alive in 1918 for that Flu). We’ve heading towards 800,000 Americans dead who would otherwise be alive. Humanity needs to fight this virus and all its variants. It has nothing to do with “muh, oh my freedom”. The vaccines are extremely effective. Guess what the healthcare costs are to these airlines and companies when an employee is hospitalized for days, weeks, months, and in an ICU and on a ventilator? AND potentially their family members who are also on the employee’s health insurance plan? Delta Airlines said average cost is $40,000. You likely will die if you are intubated and placed on a ventilator. Not many come off of that. Or have severely damaged organs (lungs, etc.) if you survive. You know who are filling the hospitals now? Primarily the unvaccinated. Like over 95%. The vaccinated breakthru cases are still avoiding the worst outcomes, with rare exceptions (having comorbidities). People like this pilot are too ignorant to get vaccinated and protect themselves, their families, their coworkers, and neighbors. And strangers too. Why risk harm to others who did not harm you? As someone else said, good luck as the door slams behind you. I hope you have fun selling insurance. Moron.
Howdy Judy time,
Thank you for making it clear, like some above, that you have no idea how this or any other vaccine works.
Looks like you bought the BS from….QAnon, Faxe News, Newsmin and OANythingbutthetruth.
1) Rushed- Vax trials can go as fast as science allows them. If a disease and widespread, it can move very quickly. Covid is very contagious and ironically, the orange dude we just kicked out of office screwed up everything in mitigating it so by last summer it was incredibly widespread…. that twist allowed data to pour in quickly.
2) A virus infected, literally, the entire world has an incredible amount of resources poured into it. Both for health and profit, to be sure.
3) long term effects. If you knew anything about vaxes you’d know there has never been a vax shown to have long-term effects. There’s sciency stuff behind it but for you…. they don’t work that way. What IS showing long-term effects……is Covid. Almost every week now scientists are releasing info about symptoms/conditions that are effecting people many months after they’ve had the virus.
4) The most major long-term effect from Covid? Dying. I’d tell you to ask the 700k people in the US alone who did just that but, as it turns out, they’re unavailable for questions….
Maybe hold a seance?
There has always been a small core of Airline Pilots that parrot socio- political right wing extremists from their favorite conservative talk radio show. Not surprising as they work in a fairly insular environment and can fall into the trap of thinking that it’s all about them. What they lack in critical thinking skills they make up for with pontification. The fact that this 18 year FO thinks wearing a mask while he is in a crowded terminal and gets to take it off when in the cockpit is infringing on his “rights” indicates he’s likely one of the nutcakes. If the vaccine mandate flushes out some of his kind from the profession the industry will be well served. This guy is the polar opposite of the thoughtful pragmatic professional that is the ideal Airline Pilot.
I feel much safer on planes because of the mask mandate. It’s foolish to rely on ventilation and air filtration when you can have everyone wear a poorly-fitted cloth mask that doesn’t help with aerosols and that is removed periodically to facilitate eating and drinking. (After all, eminent scientists like Penn and Teller will explain to you that the COVID virus will honor the truce during your brief refreshment break.)
So let me get this straight. Veterans served and died so that people could struggle to breath on ventilators when there is a proven vaccine that could save their lives. Idiot.
First, most of them will not quit their well paid jobs. Good riddance to the few who do. I want to defeat this pandemic tragedy and at this point it is these anti-science fanatics who are preventing it by insisting on their “right” to spread disease at will.
Honestly I don’t feel comfortable with an anti-vaxxer flying the plane I am on. Would be perfectly ok with this guy seeking employment elsewhere.
Jacobson v Massachusetts
@Patricia I think you are missing some key information in your comments. First, Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Vaccines provide significant protection for at least six months. Also in one study 36% of the people who had covid didn’t develop natural antibodies. Not to mention the risk of long term covid complications for those who are infected. In addition, studies have shown that vaccinated people if they have a breakthrough infection are less contagious than unvaccinated infected people and not only do vaccinated people avoid serious complications and death at a much higher rate but they on average will recover rom covid 50% faster than unvaccinated people. The idea that gets pushed by the anti-vaxxers that natural immunity is more effective than vaccines is a myth. Just one more piece of disinformation that gets put out there because people don’t understand that some of the studies they are pointing to were flawed in their methodology.
Loungeabuser – the regular references to Jacobson v Massachusetts is often inapposite when discussing federal and employee vaccine mandates. Remember that Jacobson upheld a state’s use of its general police powers to enforce such a mandate, while the federal government has no such powers.
It wasn’t too long into the covid crisis that it became apparent some were going to use it to control and profit from other people, others would live in fear of the disease unlike anything they have ever had of any other disease, and others would simply do what they medically can to limit their risks, understand the limits of medicine, and move on with life.
This forum shows clearly that principle is alive and well and few are willing to change their positions.
It will be most interesting to see who is better off and who has figured out how to thrive a couple years from now.
This has nothing to do with “muh freedoms”. It’s a public health crisis. PERIOD. The fact that morons like this would willingly throw away a lucrative pilot career to make a ridiculous political statement says it all about where we are as a country. Good riddance to all these losers!
Gravelly point guy’s comments show his true ignorance and aren’t even worth rebutting. Thanks Tim Dunn for a rational reply / observation unlike most of the sheep on this site.
I too am a rational 3x vaccinated individual.
Roman Scott you are a fool plain and simple! Did you even read Tim’ s comments or did you just start spouting that dribble upon seeing his name?
Kudos to Mr W. for his thoughtful take on this matter. Nice to hear a rational view point !
As a physician I feel saddened by these conversations. We have worked so hard to eliminate polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough) and the mumps. And thanks to vaccines – we have done a good job of that.
My greatest wish is that instead of focusing on selfishness – in other words – your right to do what you want with your body during a pandemic – how about focusing on what you can do to prevent your neighbors and fellow humans from getting sick and dying – and ending this terrible situation?
Unfortunately that is not the perspective that folks take – it’s all about “you can’t tell me what to do.” That’s why public health measures were put into place – to make sure we are all safe just because people are known to be selfish in their thinking.
Now here’s the kicker – I actually don’t want to have to make rules to tell people to get vaccinated – it can be a slippery slope (like telling me I cannot have an abortion and taking control of my body away from me). I feel people should WANT to get vaccinated for the good of all. But I guess I’m a dreamer to think people would make a choice to get a vaccine even if they don’t want it – just to help protect their fellow man. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.
The bottom line: None of these conversations will change anyone’s mind because everyone is set in their ways and cannot hear anyone else. And THAT is the most unfortunate aspect of all. There is no discussion, no desire to find truth or understand truth, no desire to find a middle road. Just anger and hate for whoever has a different opinion or point of view. So sad….
Anyway – this is a good article on how these vaccines work if you are interested.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/how-covid-19-vaccines-work.html
The guy in the video is a moron.
I will never fly on a carrier that does not have a full vaccination mandate for ALL staff – and likewise a vaccination mandate for ALL passengers.
If it takes me longer or costs me more to fly with a vaccinated crew then so be it – I’ll pay more.
The stupidity of the non-vaccinated simply beggars belief.
I don’t trust him to fly my plane. Fire him. Now.
Here’s a fact:
“And while daily Covid-19 deaths have declined in recent weeks, an average of more than 1,600 Americans are dying from Covid-19 DAILY according to data this past week from Johns Hopkins University.”
Also averaging 95,000 new cases DAILY, and that number is in spite of no real comprehensive testing program going on. The real number is much higher. Here’s another FACT: it ain’t the vaccinated people overflowing the hospitals in multiple States. It is the ignorant ones. Like this pilot. And some who are replying on this thread.
One last FACT: over 200 million in the U.S. have gotten a covid vaccine shot, over a 9 month period now. Many with two shots, some with three now. How many of those 200+ million have been adversely affected by the vaccines? It is an astonishingly small percentage that is lower than other common vaccines we’ve been getting for 60+ years. Like the ones your children have to get to attend schools. For the past 60 years. We are extremely fortunate to have these vaccines, especially the mRNA technology ones, and in record time. Otherwise we would have 1.5+ million dead in this country at this point in time instead of “just” 700,000+. But hey – more “muh freedom and no masks”. I’m also going to recommend that ALL surgeons and operating room staff not wear masks from now on since there’s solid proof that masks don’t protect and also impinge on their muh freedom constitutional rights in the operating room. Ditto for the medical staff in Africa who have to periodically fight deadly Ebola outbreaks. It would be best to have them treat Ebola patients while not wearing masks, and fly home to the US while not wearing masks too. Can’t be stomping on their constitutional rights, eh???
Dear Dr. Sheri,
you clearly are passionate about what you write but let me ask you a few questions.
1. You do realize there is a substantial difference between polio, smallpox, measles and covid (and other corona virus illnesses)?
2. Why were you and other doctors not so worked up about the flu and other respiratory diseases? The flu has killed far more people than covid has. Covid has not killed even one quarter of one percent of the US population and those counts include illegal immigrants that crossed the border and died in the US. I fully understand the magnitude of what is happening but given an 18 month pandemic and an average life span in the US of about 80 years, has covid not been blown way out of proportion to other causes of death and the levels of morbidity that are associated with the average American life span?
3. Why is it that you and others struggle to understand that there isn’t a single other vaccine or medical treatment that is required for ALL American adults – which is exactly where this covid vaccine issue is going? Children do what they are told but adults have long been given the freedom to make their own choice but even they can avoid vaccination if they are not educated in public schools.
I AM vaccinated, encourage those who can to do so, but I am sick and tired of hearing people tell other people that refuse to take a medicine they don’t want that they are an affront to society.
if you believe in the vaccines, then you took them to protect YOURSELF and if you think people should take it, they should be taking it to dramatically reduce the chance of THEIR OWN severe illness. The vaccines don’t promise anything else.
There IS an impact of the unvaccinated on the health care system – but when have you posted on the internet for people to lose weight and exercise in order to reduce the stress on the health care system?
Besides the gaping holes in the Southern border, surely you have read that one of the causative factors for covid is obesity and the associated diseases – which might explain why the US has struggled so much more than other countries.
And the biggest issue is that there are large numbers of Americans that aren’t going to be pushed around re: their health decisions and the economy and YOUR well-being will take a huge hit when you can’t get all kinds of products because huge groups of workers walk off the job.
And the sad thing is that there is no evidence that these 100% vaccinated workforces will be any safer than they are at 70% vaccinated (which was the White House national vaccination goal since taking office). The majority of people that will be forced to get the vaccine as part of workplace mandates are not the majority of the people that are getting sick and dying.
The logical hypocrisy in the vaccine mandate crowd is absolutely stunning on so many levels and they (perhaps you) cannot see it.
most sincerely,
a vaccinated legal resident of the US that wants this all to go away but also wants some common sense and rationality to return to the public discussion
@ Mr. Tim Dunn. It’s not only what people say but it’s how they say it. You write from a very logical viewpoint and your detractors generally argue with emotions and insults. That tells me a lot about those people. I am constantly amazed with how little the commenters on this site really don’t know how little they know. Off hand, I can’t think of any science that relies on emotions to be proven. However, can anyone explain why a congressman, their staff or pharmaceutical employees are exempt but an ordinary non government employee isn’t? What the rational behind that? Is it “let them eat cake”? If it is then “Let’s go Brandon.”
Hey Tim Dunn,
You are right, Covid is much different than polio… WAY more people have died from Covid, all in just a year and half. However, similar to covid, there were plenty of breakthrough infections and deaths with the polio vaccine for years UNTIL vaccine uptake was high enough to eradicate the disease in this country.
So fine people, don’t take the vaccine, but don’t complain when masks on airplanes become permanent. Also don’t complain when hospitals decide to erect makeshift outdoor tents to house unvaccinated covid patients so there is room for more responsible people to be treated inside.
Hi Tim,
Doctors ARE worked up about ALL these issues. It is shameful how unhealthy we are in this country. And for example, at least 10 other countries beat us out for healthy live births!
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries
But right now we are in the middle of a pandemic and our hospitals and staff are overwhelmed, tired, angry, and upset. This is not the case for the yearly flu. The flu has not affected the economy to this extent, the ability to travel, nor has it had the side effects that this virus has had. This is one NASTY virus.
Tim, I don’t post on the internet telling anyone what to do. I only share how I personally feel and my perspective. I don’t argue with people. Patients do what they want – they always have. I have watched some of my favorite patients die from totally avoidable situations. However, I am not in charge of people’s behavior. I have shared my perspective with patients, alternative treatment options if available – and that is the best I can do.
Proper masks work – we have been using them in surgery and in medicine for almost 100 years. They make a difference. It is absurd to not being wearing one even if you are vaccinated. For folks to refuse to wear them is what I posted about – selfishness. Same for the vaccines – selfishness.
For example in Bhutan, over 70% of the population is vaccinated and to get to those people you have to travel to remote places without roads. The reason they have such a high rate of vaccination is the philosophy of the people – they are Buddhists. It is important for them to care for others – a philosophy that is missing in the west where selfishness is the norm – “it’s all about ME.”
I am glad you are vaccinated (of course I am too) – however, perhaps you are missing the focus of my conversation. I don’t feel that people should be TOLD what to do – I feel that they should WANT to take action to keep themselves and others safe. I appreciate you sharing and your opinion.
Wow
I see a bunch of sheep on this site.
Like Gravelly Point guy or Roman the biggest sheep.
I wonder how many are Doctors or Scientist.
Maybe just one, the rest are a bunch of Youtubers.
The fact of the matter is This is the United States Of America, and last I heard is the land of the free.
Not the land of just one group or the other !!!
Remember sheep to carry your vaccine card with you at all times. That will be next my dear sheep.
You have a choice to get the vaccine and you took now you what to impose on your fellow Americans to do the same!! Tell me why Youtubers??? Roman and sheep Gravelly Point Guy?
This is a personal choice. And check your facts youtubers.
Airlines do fall under the Federal Vaccine mandate.
As well as Border Patrol Agents , US Postal Service Etc Etc Etc.
Proud to be part of this great Nation and what it stands for.
Even with nut job sheep!!!
And yes i am vaccinate and did so by choice not by following sheep, and all the nonsense you guys write. Mostly all nonsense. !!!!!!
Hi Sheri
I’m glad you responded and you clearly seem to be the level-headed, compassionate kind of person we need in healthcare; I am grateful for your service as well as my neighbors who are nurses and have served on the frontlines of the pandemic.
You are absolutely right that Americans are not as healthy as they could or should be and that predated the pandemic. There is no doubt that reality has translated into an excess of deaths.
But let’s also be clear that there were a number of things that were done in the country to not protect the most vulnerable; tens of thousands of senior contributed to the number of excess deaths based on a complete ignorance of basic health principles – people w/ contagious disease need to be isolated.
And, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, the poor control of the southern border IS a major contributor to covid in the US; even the Secý of Homeland Security was surprised at the number of covid cases in S. Texas. To no surprise, Texas has consistently posted the highest number of covid deaths for weeks – by a very wide margin – followed by Florida where large numbers of immigrants are going as soon as they are set free (if they were captured).
It is the hypocrisy and malfeasance by government officials even as normal Americans have done what they needed to do to protect themselves and those around them that is the issue now.
Vaccine mandates are not likely to move the needle now because covid cases are going down; without admitting they were wrong, the Biden Administration is quietly trying to restore some order at the border. Seniors are protected. And vaccine uptake is increasing.
But the people that are not vaccinated are very likely not in large part the people that will be subject to vaccination mandates.
And, I completely agree that health care professionals have successfully used masks – but the public does not largely have access to high quality surgical masks and cloth masks esp as they are worn by the public cannot possibly protect much. And yet, we have schools requiring children to wear masks all day after billions of dollars of ventilation upgrades at school and social distancing. People are fed up w/ how covid has been handled and do not see an end to the pandemic when Fauci et all keep talking about boosters and travel limitations.
And the whole basis of all of this is that covid disproportionately impacts certain populations while others are STATISTICALLY less likely to be impacted.
Just as when a doctor provides an 80% likelihood of treatment success, many Americans ARE making calculations of their own risk and are saying that the risk of dying from covid for their age and health status is high – and yet repeatedly we have one-size-fits all strategies for managing covid – and many people have had enough.
I get your message but I am telling you as a health care professional what so many people are feeling and why the messages are not working.
There are enormous political, economic and social issues at stake but we don’t have anywhere near close to a realization that the current strategies have not only hit a roadblock but are likely to result in severe collisions of worlds in the next few months that will look as bad or worse than we have seen during the pandemic.
I’m glad you replied and I wish you, yours and your patients the best
I’m still boycotting the airlines from the full body scanners put in 15 years. ago. Too bad I can’t double boycott for the airline’s stupid mask rules and forced vaccinations. As for the ‘slippery slope’ of seatbelts. What Anarchy! Coming from a big city, I get to watch news broadcasts where 7 time felons shoot clerks in the back. Are they punished…do they even get the death penalty? No. It’s catch and release for criminals while the rest of us are treated like prisoners.
Watch out if your employees don’t wear a mask. You’ll get fined out of business. This country has been ridiculous for decades and it’s just getting worse.
As for mask wearing. Innocent until proven guilty? Healthy until proven sick? I haven’t been sick for 2 years, haven’t seen any sign of this dreaded super-cold. Why should healthy people wear a mask? But I have an extended family member who died of blood clots after the Covid vaccine. If you expect someone to get an experimental vaccine so that you can feel better, maybe ask yourself where all your fear is coming from. My bet, you’re not living in reality, but watching too much television.
I just came in from the hospital, getting my 6-month CAT scan for the so called “cold”. All the techs and doctors said hi, the know me after an 45 day stay in the ICU. This is no cold, this is a full blown pneumonitis which kills well over 80% of those who go to the hospital. And being vaccinated (it’s no longer experimental) is a suitable defense. Would I get vaccinated? Yes! It’s much better than any alternative and I have been there and know the difference.