Sunday’s United Airlines flight 90 from Newark to Tel Aviv returned to the U.S. several hours into the flight – making a nearly six hour flight to nowhere – after a passenger decided to sit in crew jump seats while waiting for the lavatory. A flight attendant wound up in an argument with the passenger, and things escalated.
The man was told that if he didn’t return to his seat, the aircraft would have to return to New York. The man… didn’t return to his seat. The plane did turn back. And law enforcement met the aircraft on arrival. Passengers initially learned they were turning around from the moving map, rather than an announcement from the cockpit. The flight was rescheduled to Monday.
In video from on board the aircraft, the disruptive passenger can be seen being taken off the plane once it returned to Newark. And in additional video, the man – who was not placed under arrest – could be seen inside the airport “pleading his case” that,
- He hadn’t ever gotten physical with the crewmember
- And they’d overreacted
Thanks, bro. pic.twitter.com/kmXMXDAooA
— Jeff Hunt (@jeffhunt) April 23, 2023
Guy who disrupted a flight to Tel Aviv and forced a return to Newark not even arrested. Just wondering the airport pleading his case. Unbelievable. pic.twitter.com/fCsNifE0g5
— Jeff Hunt (@jeffhunt) April 23, 2023
Apparently the man was hanging around the airport voluntarily rather than heading home.
“He just kind of hung around everybody, which was bizarre and bold,” [a passenger said] “If I was escorted off an airplane I would have hung my head in shame and disappeared, but he spent four hours talking to people.”
On the whole I think that United Airlines flight attendants do a good job of de-escalation. They may have overreacted in turning the aircraft around, although if a passenger isn’t following crewmember instructions and there’s no easy diversion that’s a judgment call for the captain. There’s little question, though, the a flight attendant is in their rights to ask a passenger to vacate crew seats – just as a passenger might ask another to get up if they found someone sitting in their seat after going to the lavatory.
We are clearly at the point where we need to install a holding cage on flights a la Con Air or the jail and judge in the basement of old Veterans Stadium in Philly. Get the MFs out of their seat and throw them in a locked holding cage with a jump seat that turns into a toilet and get everyone else to where they’re going. I’m tired of these stories when the entire plane has to suffer because some insane/drunk/mentally ill a-hole. Also we now need two “air marshals” on every flight.
Another Kettle that thinks it’s special. Start restraining them into their seats.
This passenger did not cause the suffering of the plane. That’s gaslighting. The airline made the decision to turn around. There is no law of physics that states that when a passenger sits in the jumpseat, the plane must turn around.
Passengers have reason to be upset with the airline’s decision, but not with the passenger. Traveling on mass transit (which commercial airlines provide) involves sharing the cabin with all kinds of different personalities.
As to Dan’s comment above, we absolutely do not need two air marshals onboard. One is bad enough. Air marshals have never stopped a threat, but have left loaded guns in lavatories and caused all sorts of other trouble, which has been documented extensively on this very blog.
I also lose sympathy for any passenger who makes a public statement of the form, “If I did XYZ, I would hang my head in shame.” This is performative arrogance meant to show others how morally superior one is. It’s worse than meaningless, it’s frustrating, as are all displays of arrogance.
If he was told he couldn’t sit in the jump seat and refused to obey those orders, then he should be put on a no fly list for a period of time, banned from flying, and ordered to pay a fine. He inconvenienced the passengers, the crew, the airline, and the schedule.
lavanderialarry has it right. While the man was a disgusting jerk, he didn’t really pose any threat from what I see. Have him taken into custody on landing and let everyone else get to their destination.
Seems like there should be more to this story. Why would UAL waste the fuel and incur passenger ire to make a point that could have been made after-the-fact with a lifetime ban? If that threat doesn’t get the guy out of the jump seat, then maybe there’s no talking sense to him. But at least the other passengers don’t have to pay the price.
@Flight Attendants Have Low IQs – the plane did not turn itself around for no reason. The man disobeyed crewmember instructions. Especially with a flight to Tel Aviv, what else is this guy going to refuse to follow? Keep on with a flight represents another risk.
And really, the passenger already sat for 3 hours. Do they really need to sit down while waiting for the lavatory?
Reasonable crewmember instructions must be followed, and the instruction not to sit in a jump seat is reasonable, so the passenger was wrong to disobey them. The passenger’s behavior was improper, as far as we can tell. There might be mitigating factors. In any case, the passenger obviously did not issue the command to turn the flight around.
The steps taken by the airline do appear to be an overreaction based on the facts that have come out so far, namely, that law enforcement did not arrest the passenger.
The current facts suggest that the only threat the passenger posed was to the crewmembers’ ego. Crew do not make the decision to turn a plane around. The captain does. The captain has no visibility into the cabin and must rely on the crew to describe accurately and dispassionately any situation in the cabin. My suspicion is the crew embellished the problem, which caused the captain to believe there was a greater threat than there actually was.
OMG, sitting in a jump seat while waiting. The humanity.
A bit of overreaction?
I’ve had to stand around, especially on long international flights while the FAs moved around us. Never once have I been asked to return to my seat to wait. Sitting in the seat was probably less intrusive.
May have been older and less able to stand around long periods of time.
To me, this falls into the much ado about nothing from the FAs.
No explanation why sitting there was such a big freaking deal.
@Patti, your comment is the perfect example why people that aren’t flight attendants or pilots have absolutely no clue on why the rules are made. Sit down and think about a few things that you’ve said and maybe it will dawn on you. Oh and if you’ve actually been on an international flight you know that turbulence is more prevalent. Where do I sit when it hits? You think I’m going to ruin a 40+ year career with an injury because of some yayhoos sitting in My FAA only seat with My FAA seatbelt? Think!!!
I hate to make generalizations – I have Israeli citizenship, I lived there for a decade and my partner is Israeli – but, having flown that route more times than I can count I have witnessed and heard from flight crews many stories about this route. Most Israelis are amazing people, but there’s a reason they are called Sabra’s (Google it). And there are some who are really entitled, opinionated and arrogant. Part of that is the military service, commanding people in life and death situations will give you a level of self-confidence. Another part is just the nature of a society where if you give an inch you will get trampled (and I’m not even talking about the neighbors). Either way, I’m fairly confident that this guys didn’t just “refuse to move.” He was likely being extremely arrogant and dismissive. And it’s also likely that if this crew fly the route often, they’ve had enough of that. And if you are wondering, in the video they are clearly speaking Hebrew, so he’s an Israeli. And before you call this Jew an anti-Semite or anti-Israeli, read this article from Israel’s biggest newspaper please: https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/skyk0xxgs
I’m usually w guy who comes downon the side of the passenger in most disputes but come on.
Some here are dumbfounded as to why the plane turned around. Um, how about a passenger refusing to comply with crew orders?!? How would it look if this was only the first of multiple issues with the passenger on the flight? And instead of being 2 or 3 hours into the flight, they were 6 or 7 with a noncompliant passenger raising havoc on board. The crew would be wishing that they had turned back instead of just letting this very special person decide what rules he was going to follow and which ones he was going to ignore.
In one of the videos, as this guy is being taken of the plane, a passenger can be heard saying “What did he do?? He looks harmless.” Hmmmm, I wonder if she would’ve said the same thing if, instead of being an old white dude, it was a young man from the Middle East… or an African American?
Certainly it was poor judgment to sit in the flight attendant’s seat while waiting for the lavatory to become available. And once asked to vacate the seat, the request should have been immediately honored.
Turing the flight around 3 hours after in the air because someone is passive aggressive over something such as a seat MAY SEEM to be a severe overreaction to the situation. However, the passenger’s refusal to follow a very simple request is tantamount to clear disobedience. Therefore, upon reflection, I can understand the decision to abort the flight.
We will never have all the details, so it’s impossible to assess if the flight attendant’s request was courteous or perhaps overly obnoxious. Either way, it doesn’t matter, a passenger MUST obey the flight attendant in these situations.
I think there’s more to this story. How was this passenger acting before the jumpseat incident? Was this just the final straw? We don’t know from what’s presented.
Given the flight was going to TLV, I can understand UA being a bit hairtrigger with a disruptive passenger. Maybe flex cuffs and arrest on arrival at TLV would have been a better solution. None of us knows.
Don’t inconvenience others due to one POS.
Restrain said POS for safety reasons.
Have POS arrested and fined at original destination.
There United, provided that consultation free of charge.
Wouldn’t it be easier to drop him in an Algeria jail and then continue? I’m sure they’ll make sure he gets his day in court in a few years or 5?
Most likely this is a case of a flight attendant abusing his or her power and the Captain being a rubber stamp for the flight attendant’s dimwittedness. We don’t know what actually happened. Flight attendants routinely lie and exaggerate situations. It’s a shame passengers suffered for the unreasonableness of the flight attendant.
Flight attendants in the U.S. are rated the worst in the world. It is wise to assume the flight attendant is in the wrong. We should stop blindly supporting flight attendants just like we should stop blindly supporting cops. Flight attendants often nitpick over non issues, make up rules that don’t exist to enforce, and use their power to abuse passengers who didn’t smile enough at them.
As usual I’m betting it’s an overreaction from a geriatric union FA
Let him pee and get on with it. United clearly over reacted – like they do about everything else.
Flyer1
I started flying internationally in 1962 and been doing it ever since.
You?
If turbulence happens, everyone will be scrambling for a seat whether waiting for the toilet, IN the toilet or in the galley.
Seen no FAs frantically rush for their jump seat when turbulence hits. Heck, been in line for the bathroom when it’s hit. Unless extreme, nobody rushes around. Gasp, people even DO get up and use the bathroom when the seatbelt sign is on if the turbulence isn’t severe.
Unless more comes out, another officious overreach.
John, Chad, Some Dude, do any of you have any evidence to back your statement?
Otherwise, you’re just trolling. Speculation is irresponsible.
Let the flaming begin.
CREW MEMBERS MAY NOT ARBITRARILY MAKE ORDERS AND DEMAND CUSTOMERS COMPLY. IF THE SEATBELT SIGN WAS NOT ON, THE CUSTOMER HAS THE RIGHT TO WALK AROUND THE CABIN, ESPECIALLY IF OTHER CUSTOMERS ARE OUT OF THEIR SEATS. UNITED HAS TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT.
There is no FAR regulation prohibiting a customer sitting n a jump seat enroute.
121.317 Passenger information requirements, smoking prohibitions, and additional seat belt requirements.
(k) Each passenger shall comply with instructions given him or her by a crewmember regarding compliance with paragraphs (f), (g), (h), and (l) of this section.
f) Each passenger required by § 121.311(b) to occupy a seat or berth shall fasten his or her safety belt about him or her and keep it fastened while the “Fasten Seat Belt” sign is lighted.
(g) No person may smoke while a “No Smoking” sign is lighted or while “No Smoking” placards are posted, except as follows:
(h) No person may smoke in any airplane lavatory.
l) A certificate holder may operate a nontransport category airplane type certificated after December 31, 1964, that is manufactured before December 20, 1997, if it is equipped with at least one placard that is legible to each person seated in the cabin that states “Fasten Seat Belt,” and if, during any movement on the surface, for each takeoff, for each landing, and at any other time considered necessary by the pilot in command, a crewmember orally instructs the passengers to fasten their seat belts.
Nice try. How about this one? It’s from a legal website, BTW.
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/interfering-with-a-flight-attendant-or-crewmember.htm#:~:text=Any%20time%20you%20disobey%20a,a%20way%20that%20is%20dangerous.
“Any time you disobey a crewmember’s instructions, you run the risk of violating federal law. But civil penalties and criminal prosecutions usually result only when passengers repeatedly ignore, argue with, or disobey flight attendants; or when they act out in a way that is dangerous.”
See § 125.328 Prohibition on crew interference.
No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft being operated under this part.
[Doc. No. FAA-1998-4954, 64 FR 1080, Jan. 7, 1999]
He was interfering with the flight attendant’s duties. The passenger’s opinion of the situation is moot. When a flight crewmember tells you to do or not do something, accept it and argue it out on the ground. Maybe try to talk to the flight attendant in charge. Flat refusal and sing with a flight crewmember can end VERY badly for you. There are destination countries where being turned over to the local authorities on arrival would be your worst nightmare.
@flyer1 If there is turbulence, the seat belt sign is turned on and everyone returns to their seat (thus the FA seat is open). There was no mention of turbulence with the United flight and a seat belt announcement is made as a PA to everyone. I think you want the seat to eat the leftover FC food, gossip with other Fa’s and read trash magazines.
Gasp, the FA’s usually do NOT get bucked in the jump seat when the seatbelt sign is turned on. They think it’s only for the customers.
Most FAs do not fly intl until 20-30 years of flying. If you stared in 1962, that would be over 61 years of service. You’re most likely retired, bored, and running your mouth. The Guinness record of flying (60 years) was made last year by Bette Nash.
@LilyH
I started flying internationally in 1962, not Flyer1.
I think you got us mixed up. And I’m not an FA either
@flyer1 wrote… You think I’m going to ruin a 40+ year career with an injury because of some yayhoos sitting in My FAA only seat with My FAA seatbelt? Think!!!
How often do you think a FA is next to their jump seat they sat in for takeoff? Like never..how often have you seen the FAs return to their jump seat when the seat belt sign in turned on..like never. (Not talking sitting in their seats longer after takeoff)
Per FAR 91.107, customers are only required in their seats with belts fasten during taxi, takeoff, and landing.
3) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a basket or gondola or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987) must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.
Sure, maybe right now the passenger is “just” refusing to get out of the jump seat. But now that the crew knows this passenger won’t follow their instructions, what other instructions might the passenger then refuse to follow? Or other undesirable behavior might they exhibit?
Once a passenger repeatedly refuses to follow instructions, no matter how unimportant those particular instructions may seem to be, the crew has to turn around. Far better to turn around over an inconsequential refusal than continue the flight and potentially have to deal with a passenger who is bothering other passengers, otherwise interfering with the flight crew, wants to camp out by the flight deck door, etc. The crew simply doesn’t want to change the small problem passenger becoming a big problem passenger.
That said, all the comments about “because turbulence” are hilarious. A passenger waiting for the lavatory in a jumpseat isn’t any more risk during turbulence that almost certainly isn’t going to happen anyway than a passenger waiting for the lavatory standing in the galley.
@Lily H, what are you talking about? I work right next to my jumpseat almost the entire flight across the ocean and when turbulence hits, even light chop, I buckle up. I have a beautiful family to return home to and an elderly parent that relies on me. One more tidbit of info, Bette has been flying for over 65 years and she is not retired. I am not retired and certainly not bored. Give it a rest. Go back to your life. I love mine and just because all these trolls like @Dogass, chad, etc hate theirs doesn’t mean we all do.
How long would you need to perch on a uncomfortable crew jumpseat waiting for one of several lavatories to become free? A chunk of this story is missing.
The story as presented is ridiculous. Prime fodder for VFTW though.
Sometimes events like this ate more complicated than they first seem. If the passenger in question had both difficulty standing and an enlarged prostate, he may have had little choice. If he returned to his own seat, someone else might have grabbed the restroom as soon as it was vacated and a man with an enlarged prostate cannot “hold it” for all that long. He may have literally needed to find a seat close to the restroom in order to avoid soiling himself.
The other passengers should be allowed to beat the crap out of these people. Seriously.
@flyer1 No one said Bette was retired. Her record is for 65 years, not 60.
From your comments, you must work for AA. Most FAs do not take a seat when the sign is turned on. I see you did not dispute the FAs congregating in the FC galley (behind the curtain to eat the leftover FC food and talking with coworkers when it should be quiet for the FC customers) . The passenger on the United flight cannot be ordered to go sit down like a good little boy unless the seat belt sign was on and ALL passengers were told to take their seat. For intl flights, it is common for passengers to sit briefly on the FA seat while waiting for the lavatory. He was not arrested, so it’s obvious he did not violate any FAA regs. The plane should not of turned around for some power hungry FAs.
Violating FAA regs doesn’t lead to arrest because they aren’t criminal violations.
United’s FAs seem to miss the days when passengers sat in masked silence and risked prison for daring to even hesitate following an “order” from the crew. “Don’t you dare question my authority peasant!”
But unless this guy was threatening, and so far all the evidence suggests he wasn’t, turning the flight around hours into it is the very definition of overreacting.
With every passing day it just becomes so clear what a toilet airline United has become.
Delighted I don’t have to fly it anymore…
The big question is…did the crew time out?
Maybe he was really in pain waiting for his Passover meals to pass?
@lily don’t use FC for first class esp when talking about “Flight Crew”… Just call it J. F is long dead in the US, as are the pax who belong in F…
So wait did he use the Lavatory? Or did he remain in the crew jump seat?
All we can do is speculate over what happened. What we know, at minimum, is that he sat in a jump seat and didn’t vacate.
@Lily H, your statement that it is common for passengers to sit on a jumpseat reveals quite a bit. You should book a fun vacation out of the country once in awhile and get up to speed on how many times you see passengers sitting on the F/A jumpseat. As far as Bette, I do not know her personally but she is a legend within the entire aviation community. It just amazes me all the years I’ve been flying and all the wonderful people I’ve met and worked with side by side (definitely some bad apples in the group as in all professions) and all the passengers I’ve chatted with and then I come to the comment sections on these blogs and see how hateful people are. It’s hard not to feel sorry for all the ones in here that just hate their jobs, life and family and find joy in pushing down on others to make themselves feel better. How fortunate I am to have the great family, life and job that I do. Have a wonderful day.
@ Lily H
“The plane should not of turned around for some power hungry FAs.”
Small problem, Lily, with your rant. It’s not FAs’ decision to turn around the aircraft (so, maybe your are asking the wrong question).
You (and others herein) apparently are making judgments on a limited set of information.
Some of the comments herein about FAs are absolutely vile in their presumption, prejudice, and hatred.
IME, as a customer, FA issues are less than a 1 in 100 event.
Someone named “Flight Attendants Have Low IQs” unironically says all displays of arrogance are meaningless and frustrating.
@greggb157 wrote Any time you disobey a crewmember’s instructions, you run the risk of violating federal law. But civil penalties and criminal prosecutions usually result only when passengers repeatedly ignore, argue with, or disobey flight attendants; or when they act out in a way that is dangerous.”
The crew members instructions should only be related to FARs regarding seatbelts, smoking etc.. A FA has no right to issue a order to a customer if it is not in your manual or a law/regulation.
You also wrote..Prohibition on crew interference.
No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft being operated under this part.
A FA’s duty is safety and service. The guy was sitting on a jump seat was waiting for a lap. It happens all the time. It is not a safety issue. If the seatbelt sign is on, then everyone should be seated and buckled in, including the FA’s. The guy did not interfere with the food/beverage service and a if the seat belt sign was not on they have NO right to order him to his seat.
@flyer1 wrote..and all the passengers I’ve chatted with and then I come to the comment sections on these blogs and see how hateful people are. It’s hard not to feel sorry for all the ones in here that just hate their jobs, life and family
Are you not coming to this blog also? If your life is so wonderful as you claim many times) why are you commenting here? Other people reading and commenting has nothing to do with hating, job and life quality. You are the one profiling others and sound hateful telling others who they are while professing what a great person you are.
Others besides you do travel domestic and international and the area around the lavs are busy after the first meal service (pax’s try to find a place to sit briefly after standing and waiting a long time) Some customers have mobility issues and cannot stand for long periods of time.
As others have said, the FAA should require a mental and physical check every 6 months for all FA’s.
You also wrote…You should book a fun vacation out of the country once in awhile and get up to speed on how many times you see passengers sitting on the F/A jumpseat
Answer-many times. You need a mental check.
@platy I agree the plane should not be turned around for power hungry FAs.
Under normal times, a FA cannot tell a pilot to turn the plane around but once they profile a customer as a “threat” and tell the pilots, action has to be taken.
Comments and actions made by FAs are vile, hatred, and factual.
Violating FAA regs doesn’t lead to arrest because they aren’t criminal violations.
Not true. https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/former-northwest-airlines-pilot-talks-flying-drunk/
Total over reaction to escalate in this manner. Once spent about three hours on daytime cape town to london on BA 747 at the back of economy where there wasn’t a galley. Multiple crew never raised an issue. Why ask the guy to move unless the crew need the seat, he is getting in the way of service, but waiting for the toilet please? Lack of common sense and very costly for the airline
@Lily H, yes I do come to this blog and read the articles, as well as others that concern the aviation industry because I have an interest in the industry that I work in. My mistake, as you pointed out, is to read the comment section and even comment myself. I guess I just feel fortunate that I was raised by parents that taught me not to live my life pushing down on others to make myself feel better. There are so many of these people on here with the hateful statements that are made. I understand that they think being a flight attendant is just the absolute worst job ever and wouldn’t want to do it themselves. I think there are many jobs that I wouldn’t want to do but I don’t go around being unkind and saying vicious things about those professions. I do feel fortunate in so many ways and one of them is what I’ve been able to do to earn a living all these years. For me, it has been a perfect fit because I take pride in what I do and am complimented on that by people trip after trip. It has also provided many opportunities to see the World. I hope you have a nice day, truly.
@flyer1 You wrote I guess I just feel fortunate that I was raised by parents that taught me not to live my life pushing down on others to make myself feel better.
In another post you wrote.. Flyer1 says:
April 23, 2023 at 6:34 pm
I’m not sure many of you have ever flown in a plane. Unless the F/A threw herself on the floor in front of the lav door or put a cart in front of it, the door can easily be opened from the inside. Nutty story. I’m so glad all my flights are drama free and I actually get nice passengers to engage with across the oceans. A lot of you sound like 15 year old idiots in here that need to grow up.
@Fred, we get it. You hate flight attendants, your job, your life, your family. I’m glad you get to feel good every time you post something hateful. It must be so tiring being you. I’m exhausted just thinking about it. Hope you have a really nice day. There are a lot of kind people out here. If you’d just slow your roll you might notice a
You sound unstable and ostentatious.
Please stop the comments for this story. It’s painful to read.