News and notes from around the interweb:
- The COO of Southwest Airlines has a failed Alaska Airlines plan on his office wall
Southwest’s COO said that he has memorialized, on his wall next to his desk, Alaska Airlines predicting they would take over California with the Virgin America merger. Of all the airlines Southwest has feuds with I would not expect Alaska to hold that coveted spot, since it is also an admission that Alaska ran Southwest mostly out of the Pacific Northwest. Perhaps it is inspiration for future expansion back into Alaska territory? Of course now it gets a lot more complicated with the Hawaiian merger.
- Alaska Airlines launched a Lyft partnership a year ago. I’m increasingly high on Mileage Plan and that’s where I’d been crediting my Lyft rides until Bilt Rewards came along and started awarding two points per dollar with Lyft.
Through January 14, the Alaska partnership earns 2 Mileage Plan miles per dollar spent with Lyft. I still prefer 2 Bilt Rewards points, but Alaska is a close second. Either way be sure you’re triple or quadruple dipping on your Lyft rides.
- Starting in 2028 Mastercard won’t permit issuers to produce cards from first use PVC plastic
- Inflation in Argentina, what paying in cash looks like.
Here's how it looks to pay for a group dinner (and not a particularly expensive one, at that!)
Paying the bill is a whole event! First the guest counts out the bills into piles of 10,000 pesos, then the waiter recounts to make sure it's right pic.twitter.com/9g2RFWNj5M
— Devon ☀️ (@devonzuegel) December 28, 2023
- Lil Duval should just get to the airport and fly it. Sad that seven figure SkyMiles balance though.
- Minute Suites is raising prices, but this does not affect Priority Pass (how most of y’all access them).
[W]e are increasing our rates, effective January 1st, 2024. We will be raising all “standard” hourly rates by $7. Therefore, stays 2 hours and less will increase to $55/hr. (currently $48) and the price per hour for all hours after 2 hours will be $45/hr (currently $38).
…This change will NOT affect Priority Pass rates, Crew, Military, 1st Responder, Overnight, or shower rates.
@ Gary — A 7-figure SM balance is not something to pity. It has a much greater floor value than 7-figure UA MP balance.
Considering that WN’s expansion into Hawaii is part of the reason HA is in the financial shape it is in that led to its merger proposal with AS, I don’t think Watterson is through messing w/ AS.
Mergers are messy but WN has had a few failures.
And given that WN has settled at a flight level at ATL that is half of what FL had, the FL merger was not exactly a rousing success.
Add in that DL got WN to pay for refurbs of FL’s 717s and still flies them into WN hubs (with the FL registrations still on them) and DL apparently likes to have fun with Watterson too.
Found Tim Dunn’s burner.
@ Tim — That sounds like a data-driven bunch of nonsense.
@ Gene, @ Dan – if you can’t contribute to the conversation, go away. Per T. D. Rule Sec. 1.1.
Bitterness is not a good emotion.
Acquisitions are tough with airlines. Southwest lost most of its Morris Air Transport SLC hub, including SLC-SEA flights. AirTran wasn’t so hot. Neither was Muse Air.
Southwest Seattle flight schedule is a bit weak.
@ Tim — I’ve been a reader and commenter here for about 20 years, way before you started posting your Delta nonsense. I’m not going anywhere. Yeah, I can be an opinionated jerk, but at least I have some serious travel experience on which to base my remarks and don’t make obscene comments towards others, including the author of this blog.
derek has the common sense that others don’t.
WN’s track record of mergers is actually one of the poorest in the industry- specifically because WN has such a strong culture and business plan and it is impossible to find another airline that has duplicated the same thing.
Watterson came from HA, IIRC. WN’s decision to enter both the mainland-Hawaii and intra-HA market was not a mistake
If AA, DL or UA did it, they would have been hauled before the Feds.
WN actually does have pretty poor track record of competing w/ airlines bigger than itself.
Gene,
You are a fixture.
And the “Delta nonsense” I post is factual. If you think it is wrong, you should be able to post the corrections based on facts – and that is true for everyone else.
Some people are intoxicated w/ their own beliefs to the point they can’t consider any other reality, esp. when actual facts are presented.
Gary is a good guy. I disagree w/ him on some points but I respect him
And I respect you but don’t agree w/ near as much w/ you as I do w/ others
here’s to a great 2024 for you, Gary and this forum!
@TISD – if you can’t put in 2 fawning remarks about Delta plus 3 meaningless data points, don’t post. Per T.D. Rule Sec 1.01423
@Tim Dunn – “WN’s track record of mergers is actually one of the poorest in the industry”
That’s quite a statement. Canadian’s acquisition of Wardair? Pan Am’s acquisition of National? Any deal American Airlines was ever involved in, e.g. Reno Air and TWA and then finally being taken over by US Airways?
Let’s look at:
Muse Air – that was just to stop the bleeding caused by founding President Lamar Muse and his son, pushed out of WN by Rollin King
Morris Air – probably a success that gave them expansion into the West and Pacific Northwest, and the corporate cultures were pretty compatible.
They didn’t actually buy ATA, just assets, and that worked out pretty well improving its position at Chicago Midway.
Then AirTran Airways. As a business move it didn’t work out nearly as well, since they walked away from many of the assets (though did inherit slot portfolios and gates that remain in use at congested airports).
Southwest never had a ‘blockbuster’ in scale like DL/UA/AA, but I’m not sure your characterization is fair.
Tim is correct about SWA in Hawaii. Now the alliance with the AS/HA likely has SWA even more concerned. SWA drove down fares and as TimD said contributed to HA’s current weakened financial position. Since 2019, SWA, Covid, the slow return of Japan traffic , Maui fire and the Runway 8L debacle all combined for a perfect storm to change HA from a solidly profitable run of years to 900 million of debt. That said, HA is still the dominate inter island carrier with twice the flights, a 40% higher load factor and they average a 30% higher yield on the tickets they sell (that was from Peter Ingram on a local business interview) SWA is seen here in Hawaii as the outsider who came to try and beat up the locals. There is a good amount of resentment towards them for their perceived role in weakening the airline that is so much a part of Hawaii.
Alaska and Hawaiian both have great reputations in the market and the combination provides too many synergies to list here, but it will be substantial and if done right, the merger could be a strong one.
Gary, while you are on the subject of mergers…..a little trivia for you. The Alllegheny/Mohawk merger was considered by ALPA the gold seal of how two pilot groups should merge, seemless as possible. That was 1972, fast forward 30+ years and USAir/ America West has to be a front runner for nomination to a list of the worst handled mergers…..
@JohnW – yes and no on US/HP! They couldn’t actually merge operations, never managing to merge pilot seniority lists, but I’m not entirely sure Team Tempe minded because it also held down wages. Those legacy HP pilots even paid a monthly fee to access their schedule system until the three airline merger of AA-US-HP.
Why exactly would AA/DL/UA have been hauled before the Feds for entering either the mainland-HA market or the intra-HA market?
“WN’s decision to enter both the mainland-Hawaii and intra-HA market was not a mistake
If AA, DL or UA did it, they would have been hauled before the Feds.”
WN needs to look at more AS regional destinations for expansion. AS continues to lose passenger traffic to regional BUSING companies taking people to SEA/GEG/PDX, mainly due to wonky schedules, but also absurd pricing. Many of the regional routes force customers to overnight in SEA coming and going, as AS seems to have a problem refusing to overnight flight crews in these regional destinations.
Oct,
the big 3 are all much larger than HA so if they started flying intra-Hawaii routes, it would clearly be seen as predatory.
WN did the same thing under the guise of bringing lower fares so was able to get by with it even though their intra-Hawaii revenues are far below cost.
John W
of course other things contributed to HA’s demise but WN didn’t let up when all of that stuff added to WN’s “incursion” in the intra-Hawaii market.
And WN will not let up.
Holding a grudge is a dangerous thing but WN will do what it can go by with.
The state of Alaska is supposedly on WN’s 2024 road map.
Gary,
WN has a poor track record of gaining from mergers what anyone else did.
If you want assets but by a company instead, you do poorly at the merger.
The COO of SW calling out AS is like the pot calling the kettle black. In light of all the recent SW meltdowns you might want to put your own house in order before criticizing others lol!
Tim – it’s not necessarily “clearly” predatory. Your view of antitrust law is wrong. If anyone one them, WN included, were purposely selling seats at a loss to drive HA *out of business*, that would be predatory. Just being larger and entering a market is not per se predatory. Do you know for a fact that WN is purposely selling seats are far below cost – or is it a new entrant in a market trying to gain market share? The latter is not predatory.
Oct,
WN’s average fares on intra-Hawaii routes is known to the DOT and they are lower than what HA charged before WN’s entrance and are lower than WN’s costs.
The DOJ has never succeeded at figuring out what the threshold for predatory pricing is but WN has undercut multiple HA market fares for years. and unlike the network airlines, the costs are easy to allocate just to the local intra-Hawaii market.
If the DOJ wanted to go after WN, they would have no problem doing so.
If one of the big 3 did it, they would be in a world of hurt.
But before you argue any longer, just sign in with your real name and tell us your credentials.
Fake user names simply give you no freedom to tell other people what you know.
Didn’t work in 2023 and won’t work this year either.
Tim- you always talk about facts. But you are wrong on antitrust law. It is your opinion that DOJ would go after DL/AA/UA. Prove it – use facts. Prove it. Just say it is your opinion and leave it be.
I try to debate you civilly, and you always act like an @$$. And just about everyone on here uses a screen name. You choose not to. But I’m not going to because I don’t want to run the risk of being accused of giving legal advice on a blog. My credentials are what they are – I have more experience with antitrust law than you do. More experience with BofDs than you do. I use my real name in my email address to login. Gary can ban me if he thinks I am making sh!t up. You are flat out wrong on antitrust law. I’m not being a dick – just saying i n my opinion that you are wrong. As someone who has actual antitrust experience, unlike your blog-taught knowledge.
So because people on here use screen names we aren’t allowed to challenge you? BS. You don’t set the rules. You are dangerous because you think you know more than you actually do. But you probably stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Why is it that you can post whatever you want – but others aren’t allowed to argue with you? Your *opinion* is that DOJ would go after DL/AA/UA if they entered the HA market. My experience and knowledge of FACTS is that they would not. My opinion is just as valid as yours, and unlike yours is based on experience.
“Fake user names simply give you no freedom to tell other people what you know.”
So people that call you should be banned then? Why don’t you demand that of Gary?
My suer name does not give me the freedom to tell other people what I know. But my knowledge and ability to construct an argument do.
Your statement about DOJ being able to go after WN if it wanted to is also false. You don’t know if DOJ has done an analysis or not. Again, selling at below cost is not per se predatory. You think that DOJ would go after AA/DL/UA but you don’t KNOW that. Why is that so hard for you to admit?
I recall hearing an interesting take on the WN+Muse=TranStar years ago. Bottom line: WN didn’t have enough equipment that could operate coast to coast without several stops vs. Muse/TStars MDs that could handle Florida-Cali with one stop in TX easily. WN was also suffering from a premium pricing lid due to lack of buy up opportunities (NK & F9 anyone?). The theory was that operating a separate brand with more upscale aka upsell opportunities could allow them to penitrate markets WN wouldn’t dare to touch at the time like Florida. Also allowed biz people flying from say AUS to LAX a faster one stop connection over HOU by flying usual WN metal on the first segment and buying up to a premium product to LAX; without 3 stops to boot!
Of course in hindsight the one company, two brands failed and they decided to build out MDW and eventually an underutilized BWI organically. Ironically, Lamar Muse was dismissed by WNs BOD over his rabid support for killing Midway Airlines off in its crib and turning MDW into a fortress.
Hmmmmmmm…..
nobody said anything about banning anyone.
I’m sorry but if you use a made up user name, you don’t have credibility to tell other people what is true or not.
Gary doesn’t fact check comments because what is posted is opinion including his own.
There are plenty of lawyers and investment analysts that make statements which they caveat as not being legal advice.
You simply want to post anonymously and that is fine – just don’t act like you get to play the role of expert while being anonymous.
Of course it is my opinion that the DOJ COULD go after WN and that they WOULD do so if it was one of the big 3 – because the DOJ hasn’t done anything!
and just because the DOJ hasn’t filed a suit against WN doesn’t mean the DOJ hasn’t done an analysis and doesn’t mean that HA hasn’t asked them to do so.
Whether you want to believe it or not, WN has been the most predatory US airline ever as they have offered “introductory” fares that are far below what the market had before and below WN’s costs. No other airline has done what WN has done on as large of a scale or been able to get by with it.
None of which changes that WN will do it again to AS including eventually entering the state of Alaska which could be announced in 2024.
Tim,
I started by asking a civil question. And you start off by stating that I have no credibility to tell people what is true or not. But neither do you – just because you use your real name does not mean you have credibility.
Again, I asked a legit question. And your response was basically more mumbo-jumbo, not fact.
You distort things and come back with non-sequitors like “Whether you want to believe it or not, WN has been the most predatory US airline ever as they have offered “introductory” fares that are far below what the market had before and below WN’s costs.” You can’t cope whenever someone asks a legit question. I wasn’t posting to attack you. You just think so. You always respond to people with “whether you want to believe it or not” – I don’t know what to believe. DOJ doesn’t share its deliberations. So back it up with facts…. Tell me that DOJ issued an opinion. If it did.
I never said anything about WN one way or another. I asked why you are so sure that DOJ would go after AA/DL/UA if they did the same. That is what you said. Correct? And I pointed out that we don’t know that. You don’t know – neither do I – what DOJ has done or not done in terms of internal deliberations. We don’t know. And you go upset because I raised the question.
Again, I never said that WN was predatory or was not – never. Read above. Simply asked you why you thought AA/UA/DL would “be in a world of hurt”. And the fact is that no one knows if they would. You think so. I don’t. I try to be civil, but you act like a spoiled brat when people ask you prove something. You always accuse others (Max, myself, etc.) of cherry-picking facts. I’m asking you to state what facts you have /know that prove DOJ would go after the big 3. There aren’t any because DOJ keeps deliberations internal – we only know when they file suit. So why is that so hard for you to admit?
And of course every comment on here, Gary’s included, is opinion. So why do you act like you are the only arbiter of fact? Seriously? I’m trying to have an honest debate, but nothing you have replied with supports the proposition that DL/UA/AA would be in a world of hurt – or not. There is no data to back it up.
Tim isn’t capable of honest debate—unless one defines honesty as “whatever Tim says is correct”.
He’s all hat. And definitely no cattle.
Oct,
for someone that claims to be as smart and educated as you are, you get wrapped up about the smallest things.
Again, if you want to post anonymously, you don’t get to tout your professional credentials. THEY SIMPLY DON’T MATTER when you post anonymously.
It isn’t really a difficult concept to understand.
And, no you haven’t just asked a simple question.
You have TOLD ME multiple times that I don’t understand antitrust law.
That is as combative of a conversation as one could have.
Do you also realize that the DOJ is the enforcer of antitrust law in the US and it renders, wait, wait, OPINIONS, and they often get taken to court and the DOJ’s track record of late for winning major antitrust cases is actually pretty low?
They won the case against AA and B6 for the NEA because it was pretty clear cut – even dumb me can figure out that the US has never given antitrust immunity to two US airlines in the domestic marketplace other than the very short term case which Gary has noted – in Hawaii.
The DOJ may well lose the B6/NK merger case.
The comments section here and elsewhere IS ALL ABOUT OPINIONS except when clear facts are noted.
You are free to disagree about someone’s opinions but you aren’t free to argue about facts.
There are all kinds of people that can’t stand the facts of the airline industry that I present and then resort to name-calling and mocking when they can’t dispute those facts
If you can’t figure out the difference between opinions and facts and data, then it is not a surprise why you get all wound up.
None of which changes that HA has been forced into AS’ hand IN PART due to WN’s expansion into the intra-Hawaii domestic market which, IN MY OPINION, none of the big 3 could have done.
And, IN MY OPINION, WN is not through messing with AS and that will become apparent when AS starts service to the state of Alaska.
Holding a grudge isn’t a good thing to do but Watterson is capable of messing around w/ smaller airlines and succeeding at it.
tim, you suffer from industrial disease
anonymous opinions don’t matter ONLY TO YOU
it’s pretty easy to determine who has game and who is full of defecation, regardless of their alias or cognomen
you are lucky gary doesn’t configure the wordpress setting that allows you to keep posting but hides your posts from the world without you knowing that you are braying only to yourself
that scares you doesn’t it?
hagbard,
NOBODY that posts anonymously should have any expectations of touting their professional credentials.
It is simply a basic part of the way internet conversations work.
We all get our opinion. We don’t get to tell other people’s OPINIONS are wrong. And I don’t. I tell them their opinions are THEIR opinions but don’t mean anything more than what THEY THINK.
I have no idea what you do but lawyers are generally trained to debate. It isn’t hard to see that the sheer nature of the construct of OCT’s arguments don’t hold water.
Your fantasies don’t bother me as much as you fantasize about them.
Opinions on the internet don’t matter! Unless they’re my opinions! Which are never wrong and cannot be contradicted!
I am very smart.
I’ll bite, tim
Are you saying Tim Dunn is the name on your drivers license?
I’ve seen you say it’s your real name before and also seen you eventually admit that it isn’t many many times. You seem to forget what you say in the past in some of your more rage-infused posts.
You resort to making a weird deal about usernames when you don’t know how to intelligently respond to other posters with more knowledge than you then sheepishly admit that Tim Dunn is your pen name too… or have in the past…
You seem to forget your time at a.net (with your fake username) was well known to many people here along with many delta folks who knew you at the time…
I’m not sure where this newfound rage about usernames on blog comments is from when you’ve always used a pen name even if just at a.net…?
I certainly don’t claim that MaxPower is my name a la McLovin 🙂
Hope you found some good New Year’s resolutions like another hobby 😉
Happy new year, worldtraveller 🙂
to no surprise, Max, the ULTIMATE of fake news, had to weigh in.
Nobody cares about what user names anyone uses OTHER THAN when they try to establish professional credibility.
Of course the concept goes over your head since you can’t establish credibility ANY TIME you jump into a discussion with me.
Ironically, you can and have contributed to discussions when you quit focusing on me – but you are so consumed with your need to find fault with me that you resort to making up all kinds of falsehoods – as you just did here – and then pass it off as gospel because you THINK it is fact.
Let other people stand up for themselves. You aren’t anyone’s hero and offer nothing that anyone can’t do better.
Make your resolution to discuss issues instead of other users.
None of which changes that WN loves to pick on airlines smaller than itself and isn’t finished messing w/ AS; the fact that AS wants to take over HA which has been WN’s favorite punching bag over the last five years should scare anyone with a living brain cell.
I find it a bit ironic the WN COO boasts about the attack on HA!!
Where was this COO during the 2022 winter melt down which cost WN close to one Billion USD$ with a corresponding federal fine?? I guess he/she/it was completely distracted by calculating the strike point of stock options during the storm.
As for Hawaii service, ETOP completely changed the landscape for the islands. On a visit many years ago, HA has an almost exclusive franchise on the islands via HNL. Now, non-stop West Coast service via DL, UA, AA, & AS is available to several of the islands completeley bypassing Oahu. Southwest only added another boggy on the radar scope for HA.
In the long run, the WN COO has made HA a stronger competitor via AS.
Be careful on what you ask for, you just might get it!
Well said Paper Boarding Pass. The AS/HA match up will be a far superior operation than SWA’s.
in many ways….as you said, be careful what you wish for. In the their OAK ops SWA had a large ceramic shark painted up in SWA colors chasing after two small fish….one in AS colors and one in HA colors. Looks like it didn’t work out the way they envisioned.
They came to Hawaii with a very arrogant attitude. They are the airline equivalent of someone moving to Hawaii and start speaking pidgin and disrespecting local traditions. It’s not appreciated here. AS/HA will always be the local airline while SWA will always be the rude outsider in the minds of many.
Tim
Thanks for clarifying that Tim Dunn isn’t your name. Perhaps don’t try to ridicule others for using a pen name when you use one yourself and always have for decades now…
Your non answer speaks volumes as usual. You went off on OCT for mentioning his expertise yet expect everyone to blindly believe your own expertise which, while often is based in a source, is rarely based in pure fact but rather incredibly slanted passport plum glasses.
But thanks for clarifying your hypocrisy.
As per your usual attacks on me when you get called out… yawn. You do amuse