An Amtrak passenger heading from Seattle to Los Angeles was kicked off the train for cussing. They had purchased a premium seat (“roomette”) because she thought it would get her help with baggage based on the rail carrier’s website.
A dedicated First Class attendant will provide turndown service, assist with meals and help with luggage. All customers in private rooms receive complimentary lounge access at major stations, priority boarding and complimentary meals onboard.
She doesn’t visibly appear disabled, so she wasn’t surprised that when she asked for help, “The attendant himself was rolling his eyes and huffing and puffing.”
She was forced to carry her own bags and put them down each of the three times her ticket was checked, picking them back up, and winding up breathless. She muttered her frustration under her breath.
when I asked for help with my bags, I was confused as I paid the $1,200 for that luxury as I knew I needed it. So I ended up carrying most of my luggage and my ticket was checked 3 different times which is no issue but bending down and picking my bags back up multiple times is very difficult for me.
As the conductor (quite rudely) told me to pull my ticket out again I struggled getting all my bags down and quietly to myself said “fucking hell” in an exasperated manner kind of like when you stub your toe or lift a heavy weight or run up stairs and you say “holy shit that was tough” not at all directed towards her and I didn’t even think she could hear me as I could barely breathe.
The Amtrak employee immediately responded, “youre not boarding my train. I don’t allow curse words on my train.” Then the staffer “had a sheriff come and take down my ID.” According to the passenger, 10 others “tried to reason with her but she had the worst attitude” and she wouldn’t let the woman explain herself.
The woman swears (see what I did there?) that she wasn’t directing her frustration at the employee, or cursing at the employee. She says she ‘admitted she was wrong’ and she never put up a fight or suggested she’d continue cursing.
Since Amtrak doesn’t run a lot of frequencies Seattle to Los Angeles, she moved her trip to a different day – but was stuck without accommodations while she waited.
My first thought here is to request the police report before doing anything else. But this ejection makes me uncomfortable.
On the one hand, Amtrak can – and routinely does – try to bar riders for “obscene” or “profane” language. Amtrak’s Service Standards list “obscene language” as a reason to refuse carriage or eject a customer. However,
- Amtrak is government rail. And the Supreme Court held in Lebron v. National Railroad Passenger Corp. 513 US 374 (1995) that Amtrak is a government actor for First Amendment purposes. Speech that is merely offensive (e.g. “fuck” in Cohen v. California shouldn’t be actionable.
- Trains and platforms are non-public forums, so Amtrak can impose reasonable, viewpoint-neutral limits tied to passenger safety, order, or comfort – but can’t scrub speech it doesn’t like.
- Amtrak says conductors can refuse or remove passengers for “obscene language.” I’m not sure that holds up to a viewpoint-neutral rule in theory or as-applied here since profanity is not “obscenity” in any case.
The Supreme Court in Cohen protected a “Fuck the Draft” jacket because it was neither legally obscene (under Miller v. California) nor “fighting words.” A pure profanity ban targets content, and—seems irrationally broad (and likely selectively enforced).
If the passenger were shouting profanity at staff, or were harassing or threatening them, that would be a different matter. A passenger couldn’t be kicked off, though, for profanity on a shirt. I’m not sure a mere utterance is different. I’m not a lawyer, let alone one specializing in free speech law, but this seems to me an improper ejection off of government rail because an employee didn’t like the content of the passenger’s speech.
I’d be curious to here takes from readers more familiar with this area of law than I am.
(HT: @1x_PointsOnRent)
If she purchased a first class ticket, baggage assistance should have been provided regardless of her disability. The fault lies with Amtrak not providing the service that was paid for. Expect this to get progressively worse as watchdog agencies are being dismantled leaving consumers with no recourse.
Power trip by unaccountable steward working for a quasi govt agency.
Your “Supreme Court” ruling means nothing now that is controlled by the rightwing fascists. Now “law” is irrelevant, they rule to please the criminal acting as president.
OH enough of this political garbage Ray!
Instead of getting huffy, I would have expressed that “I thought my roomette was first class AND help with bags”. It’s okay to ask questions if you don’t understand.
The verbage is not clear on the website. First class does come with bag assistance, but the next sentence doesn’t say if her Roomette is considered first class.
With that being said, couldn’t Amtrak offer assistance to folks that need it for a cash tip?
This Amtrak employee was probably formerly employed by either Spirit or Frontier. Sounds like some of the trash they would hire.
@ Ray — Ignore Claire. Thank you.
Amslack has many a rough around the edges team member. Certainly not all
There have been a small percentage of nice helpful team members through the years too
I avoid them as much as I possibly can.
Most of their train stations are ghetto/dated sad condition not cleaned bird droppings & litter everywhere run down trains graffiti etc. Their signage appalling and confusing in select stations where some trains aren’t even listed or shown.Station Phones for assistance inoperative even in an emergency and elevators sometimes out of order or in offensive condition.
One will find housing challenged folks living and bathing in their station restrooms and it smells really bad..
Some of Amtraks employees can be rude and threatening as they generally come from severely underprivileged families that lack kindness empathy and basic common sense.
They didn’t have good influences or role models in their lives
That perception is from having experienced their station at Newark Airport and others
Downtown LA is bad but not nearly as bad as Newark.
When I travel with them ever which is rare I think of some of them as former released prisoners’ now working in society and try to be as nice as I can so I don’t have any problems in my interaction’s and walk on eggshells around them. The slightest anything may set them off. Again this is not all their team members but unfortunately far too many that are lazy or on power trips. Them against us mentality
Our country could do much better than what we have. Sad situation especially for any physically challenged disabled persons who depend on assistance.
“You are not boarding MY train. I do not allow curse words on MY train”. What an attitude and what a power trip. Two little words of frustration by a passenger who would not have looked like a threat and was not refusing to comply. Totally different than a passenger cussing you out and being disruptive. The F word has gotten so common, it means no more than heck or darn to many people.