Which Is The Best Transferable Points Program? Comparing Amex, Chase, Citi And More

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Updates:

  • November 14, 2021: Citi adds Wyndham Rewards as hotel transfer partner
  • January 2, 2022: Capital One adds Choice Privileges as hotel transfer partner
  • March 1, 2022: Capital One adds Virgin Red as transfer partner, I’ve added this under Virgin Atlantic
  • March 16, 2022: Bilt adds United MileagePlus and Cathay Pacific Asia Miles as airline transfer partners
  • August 25, 2022: Bilt adds British Airways, Iberia and Aer Lingus as airline transfer partners, with BA live now and the latter two launching in September
  • May 15, 2023: Citi adds Accor as a hotel transfer partner.
  • July 26, 2023: American Express adds Qatar Airways as a transfer partner
  • October 26, 2023: Citi adds Leading Hotels Of The World as a transfer partner.
  • November 8, 2023: Bilt adds Marriott as a transfer partner
  • December 15, 2023: Bilt adds Avianca LifeMiles as a transfer partner

What’s the credit card points program? Just like not every airline program is created equal, not every credit card points program is either. I’m going to look at Chase, American Express, Citibank, Capital One, and Bilt. Several factors go into which credit card points program is best, for instance:

  • How much each point is worth, based on what you can do with the points (transfers to airlines and hotels, redemption directly for travel, etc)
  • How quickly you can earn points in the program
  • Trust, the program’s track record and reliability with customers, not devaluing its points and giving members notice of changes

“Which is the best credit card points program” can be a bit like “who was the better ballplayer, Ted Williams or Mickey Mantle?” We may not settle it definitively, but we can get pretty close I think and the thinking process can help you figure out which program is the right one for you.

Who Are The Transfer Partners?

The most leverage for transferable points is… transfers to other airline and hotel loyalty programs. That’s because the points can be used very strategically,

  • when an award ticket offers the best value, and is available for the travel you want
  • to top off an account, rather than booking entirely with transferable points
  • put in the right account, in the right amount, at the right time – it’s better to be able to accumulate points where you can choose where they go later, rather than committing up front to a single airline or hotel program

Naturally, not all transfer programs are created equal. They all have different partners based on strategy, relationship, and cost (and in some cases contractual limits). So it makes sense to start with, who are the partners of each program? Here’s a handy chart:

Chase Amex Citi Cap One Bilt
Star Alliance
Air Canada X X X X
All Nippon X
Avianca X X X X
EVA X X
Singapore Airlines X X X X
TAP X
THAI X
Turkish Airlines X X X
United Airlines X X
oneworld
American X
British Airways X X X X
Cathay Pacific X X X X
Finnair X
Iberia X X X
Malaysia Airlines X
Qantas X X X
Qatar X X
SkyTeam
Aeromexico X X X
Air France X X X X X
Delta X
Virgin Atlantic X X X X X
Non-alliance
Aer Lingus X X X
Emirates X X X X X
Etihad X X X
Hawaiian X X
InterMiles X
JetBlue X X X
Southwest Airlines X
Hotels
Accor X X
Choice X X X
Hilton X
Hyatt X X
IHG X X
Leading Hotels Of The World X
Marriott X X X
Wyndham X X

Who Has The Best Airline Transfer Partners?

The best SkyTeam transfer partner is easy. That’s Air France KLM’s Flying Blue, and all of the transfer currencies partner with them. It’s tough for them to make money on credit cards in Europe with regulated interchange, so liberal points transfers are how they get a piece of the more lucrative U.S. credit card market. It’s odd that Bank of America issues the Air France KLM credit card in the U.S. and doesn’t have exclusivity.

Aeromexico is next to useless as a partner. Sure, they have attractive published rates for round the world tickets but I don’t know of anyone that’s ever successfully booked and flown one of those using Aeromexico. Their award pricing is mostly quite high, but most of all they are just insufferably difficult to deal with – even for patient Spanish speakers.

Delta is usually going to give you only a bit over a penny per point in value most of the time. Occasionally you’ll do better, but not with the sort of leverage Flying Blue still offers. I’d rather have Air France as a transfer partner than Delta, though most American Express customers will transfer to Delta because that’s what they know and it seems simple.

The best oneworld transfer partner is American AAdvantage, which is a Bilt transfer partner. Citibank temporarily had them in 2021, so hopefully that returns and it’ll make a big difference for the program.

After AAdvantage, Qatar Airways is very attractive for actually flying on Qatar’s QSuites product – reasonable redemption prices and no fuel surcharges. They’re exclusive to Citi. British Airways can be ok for short-haul flying. Iberia is good for transatlantic flights on their own aircraft. (And British Airways, Iberia, and Aer Lingus points all transfer back and forth provided the accounts are considered active.) Cathay Pacific’s program is… ok. While outside of some edge cases, such as unique Pacific parnters and when they have inventory offered only their own members, Qantas Frequent Flyer won’t be used often. Finnair and Malaysia Airlines are next to useless.

The best value transfer partner in Star Alliance is ANA, though they can be a bit tricky (redemptions restricted to family members, transfers aren’t instant, roundtrips are required though there are workarounds). After that I’d say Aeroplan is marginally better than United. Turkish offers some unique value. Avianca has an award chart similar to United’s and a few hacks to lower redemption costs but miserable customer service.

EVA Air’s Infinity MileageLands is an underrated program. Singapore Airlines is useful for redeeming awards in premium cabins on Singapore itself, since for long haul flights those aren’t generally offered to partners. The win here goes to American Express Membership Rewards by a nose, followed I think by Bilt which is the only program that transfers to 2 of the 3 major U.S. airlines and then Chase simply because of the ease and familiarity of United if not overall value.

Among non-alliance partners, Emirates is a transfer partner of everyone, and offers (unique) value for Emirates first class redemptions. Aer Lingus offers almost zero incremental value, and is duplicative in any case since British Airways and Iberia points can be moved into the program.

Hawaiian has limited value – access to extra inventory for Hawaiian’s own flights, and especially for upgrades on Hawaiian itself. Etihad can be useful for their own flights (though AAdvantage gets you Etihad redemptions at lower cost generally) and for a hodge podge of partners. InterMiles has been useless since the demise of Jet Airways.

JetBlue offers little value (a single JetBlue point isn’t worth a lot, and redemptions are roughly revenue-based) but lets a program claim a U.S. airline partner. Southwest points don’t buy enough in airfare to make sense transferring except as a pure top-off play.

Virgin Atlantic points are generally low value, but there are some very high value rewards like ANA premium cabin redemptions. They let you put an award on hold pending transfer. Don’t ever be tempted by a transfer bonus or to proactively move points to Virgin, since the best value awards could go away at any time (and that’s happened with Virgin in the past).

Who Has The Best Hotel Transfer Partners?

The only hotel program with transferring to is Hyatt, and that’s a win for Chase and for Bilt. The problem is that each hotel point in other programs is too low value to make the transfer ratios make sense. Neither Hilton, IHG, nor Marriott points are worth even $0.006 apiece in my view, so even at 1:2 you’re getting at best about 1.2 cents per credit card point after transferring.

Who Has The Best Non-Transfer Redemption Options?

Points can often be spent at a penny apiece towards travel, and perhaps at a lower rate against options like gift cards or statement credits. However one program stands apart in the non-transfer redemption category and that is Chase.

Chase Sapphire Reserve® cardholders can use their points at 1.5 cents apiece through the bank’s travel portal, or against charges on their account in rotating ‘Pay Yourself Back’ categories.

Meanwhile holders of other cards in the Ultimate Rewards family that transfer points, like Chase Sapphire Preferred® Card, can generally redeem those points at 1.25 cents apiece against travel portal expenses or Pay Yourself Back categories.

To be sure Chase isn’t the only currency that can be redeemed at greater than a penny apiece outside of transfers. Bilt Rewards allows redemptions at 1.5 cents apiece towards mortgages, but that’s less appealing than Sapphire Reserve’s 1.5 cent offerings which are more immediate, can be redeemed in smaller quantities, and the savings of course from those redemptions can be used towards a mortgage or anything else.

Whose Points Are Easiest To Earn?

When pooling points from different cards within a transferable points family it’s easy to earn quickly for spend across a wide variety of categories, such as using the Platinum Card® from American Express for airfare purchased from an airline, an American Express® Gold Card on dining, etc. Or using a Chase Sapphire Preferred® Card for 3 points per dollar on dining, an Ink Business Cash® Credit Card for its bonus categories, and then a Chase Freedom Unlimited® to earn 1.5 points per dollar on everything that doesn’t earn a bigger bonus somewhere else.

Citi offers similar opportunities with the Citi Premier® Card and other cards like Citi® Double Cash Card (which when paid off effectively earns 2 points per dollar on everything, not bad for a no annual fee card).

Capital One Venture and Venture X both earn 2 miles per dollar spent on all purchases, representing the strongest earn for unbonused spend from a card whose earnings are uncapped and transfer to miles directly (without pooling of some kind).

Bilt offers something unique, earning up to 100,000 points per year on rent with no additional fee. Its bonus categories are the same as the Chase Sapphire Preferred card. However Bilt doesn’t offer an initial bonus, while Sapphire Preferred does.

Think about this another way, there are different reasons to get a card – the up front bonus, benefits of being a cardmember (companion tickets, lounge access, etc), and return for your ongoing spend. In the ‘return on spend’ category Bilt gets you what Sapphire Preferred gets you plus points for rent.

Still, if you were only going to get one card, it’ll take awhile paying rent to ‘catch up’ with what Chase gives you because of that up front bonus. However Bilt also is unique in earning in non-spend ways, such as signing leases with big high rises in major cities. You can catch up to that bonus if you’re a renter in that demographic.

Places You Can Park All Your Points

One facet of these transferable points programs is that they share some transfer partners in common. That means you can earn in all of the programs and then pool your points in a single airline frequent flyer program to book rewards. That’s great because it means initial card bonuses can all go to the same place, if that makes sense. It also means you can pick and choose which card you want to use based on which earns the most points for a given type of spending.

It doesn’t always make sense to do this. For instance you may be able to pool points from several programs into British Airways, but they may charge too much for an award. And you might already have points in a United MilaegePlus account and be looking to top that account off for an award, in which case supplementing with Chase makes more sense.

However ‘transfer partners in common’ is a very useful feature to be thinking about.

The most ubiquitous partners are Air France KLM and Emirates which are partners of all 6 programs. Singapore Airlines is a partner of 5 programs (all but Bilt). Air Canada is a very useful partner, and works with 4 programs (all but Citi and Brex). Somewhat less useful are Cathay Pacific, Virgin Atlantic and Qantas which are partners of four programs. Utterly useless is Aeromexico which partners with 4 as well.

Whose Transfer Options Are Best?

American Express has the most transfer partners. They have historically also had the most transfer bonuses. They have ANA, with its low mileage cost redemptions, and it’s unique to them. They’re really only behind one program in one category, Bilt with AAdvantage for oneworld. So I believe they’re first by a nose.

Now let’s look at Chase versus Bilt because I think it may be surprising how close the two programs are with transfer partners.

  • They both have Air Canada, which is the best all-around Star transfer partner in my view (though ANA can offer more value and partners with Amex). Chase has United, which many will be comfortable with, and they have Singapore, while Bilt has Turkish (which offers the cheapest domestic United redemptions and cheap long haul as well).

  • Bilt beats Chase with oneworld hands down because AAdvantage is better than British Airways, Cathay Pacific, and Iberia – generally lower award pricing for most routes and only imposes fuel charges on British Airways (and minor ducats on Iberia metal).

  • They’re identical for SkyTeam

  • Among non-alliance carriers we weigh JetBlue and Southwest (Chase) versus Hawaiian (Bilt)

On the basis of transfer partners along I’d say they’re pretty indistinguishable, and have to wonder if Turkish and American (Bilt) versus United and Singapore (Chase) makes them a bit of a draw with maybe the tiniest edge to Bilt on the basis of transfer partners alone?

Considering Citibank vs. Capital One, I focus on valuable partners the other one lacks. Citi has Qatar and Virgin, while Capital One has Air Canada and British Airways. I’d say this is a close call, the two currencies aren’t separated by a lot here, but I’d probably go with Capital One by a hair.

There’s absolutely no question that Brex is the laggard here with the weakest partners.

Which Is The Best Credit Card Points Program Overall?

So what’s the best credit card points program? All of these program’s – except Brex – are great. Is it too Leninist to just ask ‘who (partners with) whom?’ Undergrad poli sci notwithstanding, we need to look beyond just transfer partners to determine which program is best. There’s how easy is it to earn points? And even determining how much those points are worth requires us to look at non-transfer redemption options as well as risk.

The two programs where I might flag small risk elements are with Citibank and Bilt.

  • Citi has devalued in the past for use of points to buy airfare. They’ve dropped premium insurance offerings on most cards. They’ve done cost-cutting in ways that affected the value of their points and cards. Citi in some ways hinges on its ability to bring American AAdvantage back as a transfer partner beyond its limited-time run.

  • Bilt is simply too new to have a track record to judge. I don’t doubt their staying power at this point considering the amount of money they’ve raised and the deals they’ve struck, but I can’t give them the bonus points I might apply to Chase – which has kept the value of its program in the face of unexpected nine-figure costs, and the many decades-long reputation Membership Rewards has built.

Ultimately I’d say that American Express, with the largest stable of transfer partners and easy to earn points, may have the most valuable program by a hair.

Then when I consider Chase, I have to think that there’s really a couple of different programs. Sapphire Reserve points can be redeemed at 1.5 cents apiece towards travel through their portal or through ‘Pay Yourself Back’ while other Chase transferable points cards give you 1.25 cents apiece here and are a tiny bit less valuable as a result.

Meanwhile Bilt’s only premium redemption at 1.5 cents comes when spending points for a mortgage, something you don’t do often and some won’t do at all. I have to discount this for time value assuming that the redemption comes far in the future, meanwhile someone could redeem Sapphire Reserve points against expenses now and still pocket the savings for a future mortgage if they wished.

What this means, I think, is that Chase points in a Sapphire Reserve account are marginally better than Bilt points while Chase points in a Sapphire Preferred account are roughly equivalent to a Bilt point. Although with the addition of United and Cathay Pacific as Bilt transfer partners you could easily argue the opposite.

How I Actually Play This Game

In the end I’m not sure the marginal differences in which is the best credit card points program matters a lot. These points programs are an embarrassment of riches. I love having all of these options, and all of these points, and the differences mostly come down to personal preferences for how you’ll use the points. Indeed, they’re all useful and there are even options where you can take points from several bank programs and transfer into the same place. Play in all of these bank programs, and combine towards an award.

Indeed, I’m at a place where I want to spread out my points-earning. While bank programs themselves are a hedge against the devaluation of a single airline or hotel currency you might have focused your earning on, I am working with seven figure balances in Chase and American Express and try to diversify my transferable currencies too.

I’m also not going to turn down a big offer – I’ve got approximately 210,000 Brex points from a 110,000 account signup offer and then 100,000 more points from a related Paypal offer which cost me nothing to do. Brex points may be worth less but they are anything but worthless

If I were a renter I’d be all over the Bilt Rewards Mastercard, which lets you earn up to 100,000 points per year paying rent on the card (no need to pay Plastiq 2.5% for the privilege!), but I’m a homeowner. I may still apply for the card just to experience the program first hand and be able to report on it here.

As a general rule what I do is earn the most points I can in any of the transferable points programs based on what I’m spending my money on. I am doing airfare (5x) these days with my Platinum Card® from American Express. I do restaurants with the American Express® Gold Card. Hotels should go on Chase Sapphire Reserve® or Citi Premier® Card if you don’t have Reserve (3x), except that Hyatt spend should go on The World Of Hyatt Credit Card and Hilton spend on the premium Hilton card. A American Express® Gold Card for groceries (4x up to $25k/ calendar yr, then 1x)

Office Supplies, telephone, cable and internet go on my Ink Business Cash® Credit Card (where they earn me 5x). Gas should go on a Citi Premier® Card (3x) while fitness and gym memberships are uniquely bonued by The World Of Hyatt Credit Card.

I’m looking forward to putting otherwise-unbonused spend on the Capital One Venture X.

For rates and fees of the American Express® Gold Card, click here.
For rates and fees of The Platinum Card® from American Express, click here.
Information about American Express Gold and Platinum cards were produced independently and neither reviewed nor approved by its issuer.

About Gary Leff

Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary »

More articles by Gary Leff »

Editorial note: any opinions, analyses, reviews or recommendations expressed in this article are those of the author’s alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any card issuer. Comments made in response to this post are not provided or commissioned nor have they been reviewed, approved, or otherwise endorsed by any bank. It is not the responsibility of advertisers Citibank, Chase, American Express, Barclays, Capital One or any other advertiser to ensure that questions are answered, either. Terms and limitations apply to all offers.

Pingbacks

  1. […] That’s shocking because there’s a basic rule of Singapore Airlines availability. Singapore only lets their own members book long haul business and first class awards There was a brief exception to this rule where partner programs had full access to Singapore Airlines premium cabin award space but it was a full decade ago. That’s why it’s useful that Chase, Amex, Capital One and Citi points transfer to Singapore’s miles […]

Comments

  1. I think a big part of the story on which cards are the best to hold transferrable points is the bonuses on transfers. Amex regularly has transfer bonuses of up at least 20% and up to 40%. Citi, Chase, CapitalOne have dabbled in bonuses but they are not common and never at 40%

  2. Gary, thanks for your review — I appreciate the effort that goes into producing that type of output and it provides an easy to survey overview that answers a lot of questions.

    Cheers from Houston

  3. Do you know how loose Bilt’s definition of “rent” is? mom’s assisted living place is currently paid monthly from a checking account via recurring bill-pay. It never occurred to me…

    Rent would be paid via bilt; bilt would be paid via auto-pay from the checking account?

  4. The best card program is Capital One for value of 2 points per $ spent and transferable points
    The best program for stable partners – Amex and with easy accruals of 5X airfare 4X groceries
    The best for United and SW and Hyatt – Chase with 5X at office stores and 3X groceries etc
    etc – I think based on your specific needs, the best program may vary
    Bilt is nowhere near – earn rate is much lower than Chase, Amex or Capital One

    But when you look at true transferability, Capital One wins by a mile
    Citi has devalued and has too many restrictions on transfers – points expire at 90 days
    Amex – one can not transfer points to another (unless Authorized user on a card)
    Chase can only transfer to a household member or business partner

  5. Thanks for the review, however after purchasing a short-flight Frontier ticket using points through Chase Ultimate Rewards I’m pretty likely to ever do it again. There were many problems after the purchase:

    1. My Frontier rewards number was not connected to the flight – though my spouses was – and Frontier could not add it after the fact.
    2. I received exactly zero flight notifications, text or email, about check-in, etc.
    3. I was able to pull up my flight in the Frontier app but since I couldn’t connect it to my Frontier account, I had to search for it every time, which became important because the flight was eventually cancelled and we got last minutes seats on SW instead.

    It was such a pain to deal with that I would most likely never consider it again despite the purchase bonus.

  6. Chase effectively transfers to Qatar via BA and the Avios can also move both directions between the accounts.

    I think your table should reflect this. I see it as a huge value improvement for Avios.

  7. The comparison between Bilt and Chase is incomplete as Bilt does have Hyatt and United as transfer partners.
    Considering that Bilt has no annual fee and AA as unique transfer partner, I think Bilt is superior to the Chase Sapphire Preferred.

  8. I will add that a forgotten but valuable hotel transfer partner is Citi to Choice at 1:2 (and 1:4 to Radisson hotels Americas right now). Choice typically has low redemption rates so you can get good value on transfer. Of course choice doesn’t have the appeal of Hyatt and other brands with higher end hotels, but for budget travelers it is a great option. Also choice limits how far out you can redeem.

    Also of note is that you can get basically 1.54 cpp when redeeming Amex points for business or first class fares on any airline or economy on your selected airline if you have the business platinum card. This creates a nice minimum value for their points.

  9. When you recycle a post, once in a while you have to see if the earth has shifted
    Virgin is now part of Skyteam – please update

  10. For me personally there’s a huge boost in value for a currency that can redeem for last seat or close to last seat availability for a reasonable premium over the saver price. Turkish and Qatar stand out in that department so Citi points are the most valuable for me.

  11. The only hotel program with transferring to is Hyatt, and that’s a win for Chase and for Bilt. The problem is that each hotel point in other programs is too low value to make the transfer ratios make sense. Neither Hilton, IHG, nor Marriott points are worth even $0.006 apiece in my view, so even at 1:2 you’re getting at best about 1.2 cents per credit card point after transferring.

    — Gary Leff

    Variant #3 of that same claim won’t change the facts or the math: There is no universe in which a Hyatt point has more or higher value than any other hotel points currency, therefore, the favorable transferability of UR points to WoH points has got absolutely nothing to do with the purported ‘higher value’ of a Hyatt point.

    In fact, there is no upside for Hyatt’s bottom line to have WoH members earn points on Chase or Bilt cards without ever setting foot in Hyatt hotels, and then transferring those points to WoH points to redeem free stays at Hyatt hotels, for which the hotels must reimbursed in hard currency by the loyalty program. (Hint: SPG is no more!). That is why Hilton, IHG and Marriott purposely make the transfer of bank points to their respective points currencies highly unfavorable by requiring numerically huge numbers of points for award stays. You want to earn enough points to redeem a free stay at any of the three chains’ hotels? You’ve got to spend real money on revenue stays at their hotels, which benefits their bottom line.

    So, I will repeat:
    — the favorable transferability of UR points to WoH points has got absolutely nothing to do with the purported ‘higher value’ of Hyatt points relative to other points currencies, and
    — there is no upside at all for Hyatt’s bottom line to have WoH members earn points on Chase or Bilt cards without ever setting foot in Hyatt hotels and then transferring those points to WoH points to redeem free stays at Hyatt hotels…

    G’day.

  12. @DCS Your logic is hard to follow. I don’t think Gary is saying that, UR points lend value to Hyatt. But the high relative value of 1 Hyatt = 1 UR point comparatively to 1 Hilton/Marriott/IHG point lends value to 1 UR point. It is widely accepted (and the math generally holds) that Hyatt points are much worth more on median than the other hotel program points.

    In reality we really don’t know how much $$ Chase pays Hyatt every year, so we don’t know what type of revenue/margin (upside as you say) Hyatt is enjoying from the relationship. Hyatt owns/directly leases a much larger percentage of its rooms than Hilton or Marriott and/or perhaps their reimbursement costs are less expensive than the other chains. Maybe they have a sweetheart deal with Chase for the sale of those points, or cheaper access to capital since owning more rooms means their business is more capital intensive than the other chains. Point programs are very very profitable for all the chains. Hilton only owns 2%, and Marriott 1% of their branded rooms. People staying in their hotels makes $$ for the franchisees, not much for brand (just the ~2-10% of room rate that the brand collects)

    Since Hyatt sells those points to Chase via the branded credit cards and via UR transfers, there is most likely a very solid benefit to Hyatt’s bottom line. The economics of these programs work for Hyatt and the hotel owners since a huge majority of the award rooms would go unoccupied and the marginal/opportunity cost of the room being occupied is very low. In any case, Hyatt’s net profit margin is up 162% YoY, so I guess it’s working for them.

  13. @ehs- DCS’s logic is always hard to follow- don’t feed the troll!

    OK, can’t resist- I just got a free night on my 4 night IHG stay with the credit card- clearly superior benefit!

  14. @DCS Your logic is hard to follow. I don’t think Gary is saying that, UR points lend value to Hyatt. But the high relative value of 1 Hyatt = 1 UR point comparatively to 1 Hilton/Marriott/IHG point lends value to 1 UR point. It is widely accepted (and the math generally holds) that Hyatt points are much worth more on median than the other hotel program points.

    I perfectly understood Gary’s claim because it’s his third iteration trying to make the very same bogus point. The reason you find my logic “hard to follow” is that, like virtually everyone else, you are clueless about the relative values of hotel loyalty points currencies, which are all worth exactly the same.

    Substantiate, either mathematically or conceptually, why [I]t is widely accepted (and the math generally holds) that Hyatt points are much worth more on median than the other hotel program points, and I will, yet again, show why you are misguided. Short of that, I doubt that you are equipped to understand my logic…or math, which is actually kindergarten-level.

    The rest of your comment about deals between hotels and banks changes nothing. All hotels earn lots of money by selling their points to banks, which has nothing to do with anything in my comment.

  15. @George — Truly clueless.The benefit of getting 1 night free in 4 (a 25% discount) or 1 in 5 (a 20% discount) or 1 in 10 (a 10% discount) is exactly the same: one free night or its points or monetary equivalent.

  16. @ ehs183

    “@DCS Your logic is hard to follow”

    Absolutely correct, but only if you’re indoctrinated by the Gary Leff (and other expert frequent traveller blog-meister) insanity that ‘s been misinforming the uncritical readership for years. so bear with us, mate, and put your critical faculties into gear.

    Ok, it took me a moment, even being naturally academically brilliant and all (but hey, I’m only a scholar of the UK’s number one university / global number two and only been a player on this loyalty game for over 36 years, sadly a lot less (no, make that significantly more) than Gary Leff and other self styled experts – so, yeah, but, hey, hint – intellectually DCS nails it and always does with evidence and not mythological BS despite the inevitable personal insults).

    “It is widely accepted (and the math generally holds) that Hyatt points are much worth more on median than the other hotel program points.”

    The math don’t say that, dude – not on the median, nor the mode, and the nor the mean, even if you know the ufcking difference between such basic statistical terms.

    Problem, dude – are you sure that you’re not talking about redemption value (hint – Gary isn’t, except when he is and then maybe he isn’t and then without factoring in the fifth night free, or maybe he is, but then maybe he isn’t, because every time I ask him he evades the question, thus not a transparent valuation, but hey, probably has no idea himself what his point valuations actually capture).

    Clue – earnings (points per buck) and redemption value (buck per point) determine overall net return. Such math is exact and repeatable even the real world input data. Gary won’t tell you that (he’s selling credit cards).

    And Gary messes that right up by quoting net returns (when he occasionally condescends to do so) on the basis of his (fake) point valuations. WTF he and his fellow blogsters have absolutely no absolutely fcking idea. But hey, pointing that mathematical reality has got me banned on more than one travel blog with incomes depending upon credit card commissions.

    Oh yeah – such fake valuations can really mess you up – 67% failure rate for reasons I’ll not reveal herein. Crucially, way outside Gary Leff’s comprehension, even with laudable CFO credentials.

    Now talk to us about math generally holding. If you earn at the same rate and then the comparison across redemption rates may hold true.

    But even if that the case, why would you settle for a credit card that had a shite earning rate if your target was a certain loyalty program accrual. NFI.

    Regarding your subsequent analysis – do you really believe that Hyatt can magically gift three times more net return than Hilton (or any other hotel loyalty program) and extraordinarily come up with such a profit?!

    Clue – they don’t….;)

    In reality we really don’t know how much $$ Chase pays Hyatt every year, so we don’t know what type of revenue/margin (upside as you say) Hyatt is enjoying from the relationship. Hyatt owns/directly leases a much larger percentage of its rooms than Hilton or Marriott and/or perhaps their reimbursement costs are less expensive than the other chains. Maybe they have a sweetheart deal with Chase for the sale of those points, or cheaper access to capital since owning more rooms means their business is more capital intensive than the other chains. Point programs are very very profitable for all the chains. Hilton only owns 2%, and Marriott 1% of their branded rooms. People staying in their hotels makes $$ for the franchisees, not much for brand (just the ~2-10% of room rate that the brand collects)

    Since Hyatt sells those points to Chase via the branded credit cards and via UR transfers, there is most likely a very solid benefit to Hyatt’s bottom line. The economics of these programs work for Hyatt and the hotel owners since a huge majority of the award rooms would go unoccupied and the marginal/opportunity cost of the room being occupied is very low. In any case, Hyatt’s net profit margin is up 162% YoY, so I guess it’s working for them.

  17. @ George

    “DCS’s logic is always hard to follow- don’t feed the troll!”

    Hey, George, how about showing some ufcking respect to somebody who is evidently far smarter and better educated than idiots like your good self?!

    @DCS is highly experienced in the loyalty game and has taken the time and trouble to pump the math in ways that Gary Leff and other blogsters never had the curiosity, imagination, or talent to do likewise.

    And, also, unlike Gary Leff and other blogsters, @DCS has been willing to share his knowledge without any payment.

    Stop. Think. Do the math, you blithering idiot. It’s embarrassingly basic. We’ve covered this ground countless times before on this blog.

    IHG and Hilton offer the SAME relative benefit (given 4th night vs 5th night free) for stays of 1,2,3,5,6,7,10,11 nights.

    Hyatt has neither benefit.

    Gary Leff doesn’t factor such benefit into his point valuations / net return estimates (or, if he does, he avoids revealing the fact when repeatedly asked – typical Gary Leff obfuscation).

    That puts Hyatt below Hilton on Gary Leff’s own valuations / net return estimates – go figure.

    @ DCS is entirely correct and Leff is a fake – but suck it up, dude, Leff’s the expert and @ DCS the gaslighting troll, and according to to Gary Leff, I’m the liar, right?!

    Clue – @ nether DCS nor myself have any skin in this game – nothing to gain by espousing an evidence counterpoint to Gary Leff and the other simpering idiots herein.

    You have fallen for the fakery of focusing only on selective definitions of redemption value (not the overall nets returns correctly calculated), adjusted to suit the individual blogster and their personal prejudices.

    Now watch this post go missing (like other posts exposing Leff’s fakery)….;)

    I’m sick and tied of fcukwits on this websites bullying the smart kid in the classroom, especially when they have NOTHING to offer in terms of any rational debate and ZERO evidence to back they pathetic and misdirected attacks. I have yet to see anybody herein provide any evidence to demonstrate that @ DCS is wrong on any position he’s put forward.

    The troll is….@ George, in this case. Ironic, that, especially given his zero contribution to the debate.

    OK, can’t resist- I just got a free night on my 4 night IHG stay with the credit card- clearly superior benefit!

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