What Needs To Happen For People To Travel Safely Again

The head of London’s Heathrow airport is crying foul over lack of screening procedures for arrivals and departures at his airport. He wants the U.K. government to impose “mass screenings at airports..which could include temperature checks, antibody tests and a requirement that all passengers carry health passports proving they are medically fit.”

The U.K. has a major outbreak of coronavirus. It’s already in the country. Heathrow’s boss is concerned with incremental cases coming in, while the country’s health service is concerned about the geometric growth of cases from people already there. There are no COVID-related bans on travel to the U.K., though the government asks arrivals to self-quarantine for 14 days.

Heathrow Chief Executive John Holland-Kaye says his concern is that airports are coming under criticism for lack of action. He wants internationally-agreed upon standards to follow. Then no one can criticize him. Earlier in the month he described his call to action as being “a little bit like the liquids ban” at airport security which should tell you something about the effectiveness of proposed measures.

In fact the major approaches to ensuring arriving passengers are safe and are not infected all have limitations – so severe that they may not provide much protection at all.

  • Taking temperatures will only make a small difference. It does nothing to catch someone that’s asymptomatic and that’s now believed to be a major factor in spread.

  • Testing at the border isn’t foolproof either. First, someone may have caught the virus but doesn’t yet shed enough of it to show up in tests. Second, testing error rates are high. Many tests currently in use in the U.S. have error rates up to 30%.

  • Immunity passports aren’t foolproof either. You may have had the virus, and demonstrate antibodies to it, but we do not know yet what level of antibodies are needed for immunity, how long immunity lasts, or whether it’ll prevent infection against any variant strains of the novel coronavirus.

That’s why arriving passengers are asked to self-quarantine for fourteen days. The assumption is that anyone coming into an area might have the virus no matter their current medical condition, so they should stay away from everyone until the time they would be presumed well if they haven’t developed symptoms.

Even that may not be enough – someone may be asymptomatic but still test positive for the virus after weeks as China has learned. Others may see a resurgence in the virus up to 35 days after being cleared. These are outlier cases. One infected person entering a country may cause zero problems, with the virus dying out, or could infect several people who go on to infect several others.

The world can’t sit around in stasis until a vaccine is developed. There are a number of promising candidates, but in a best case scenario it’s unlikely one will be widely available within two years. Even if one is developed in 12 months, having a vaccine is different than manufacturing and distributing enough of it (or for that matter having enough needles to administer it, if that’s the mechanism used).

On the other hand let’s not forget the purpose of lockdowns from the outset, “flattening the curve.” We aren’t going to extinguish the virus and in many places we may not even reduce the total number of people who get it. Instead we’ve needed to keep health care systems from becoming overwhelmed, and buy time so that,

  • We can scale up health care capacity, from ICU beds, to ventilators (which don’t seem to help much), to personal protective equipment.
  • Develop better treatments (and treatments should come sooner than a vaccine) in order to improve patient outcomes and reduce time in hospital, further reducing the strain on capacity.
  • We’re able to scale up the ability to test, isolate, and trace contacts to contain the virus once it’s under control.

In other words the point of lockdowns was to make the global pandemic more manageable so that when it spreads it doesn’t do as much damage.

There are still places in the world that will be very vulnerable even once treatments arrive. Different countries will do better – and less well – scaling up preparedness.

There will be a return to life, and even a return to travel. It won’t look like what it did before, both in terms of level of activity or the actual experience.

We probably won’t see blocked middle seats after some initial period. The real estate on an aircraft is valuable, and removing as much as one-third of seats for sale will make travel more expensive. And we probably won’t see novel seats with built-in plastic shields installed on planes. Airlines are strapped for financing as it is, major capital projects to retrofit planes with newly acquired seats seem unlikely.

However we’ll need to find ways to distance. It isn’t just on board the aircraft but in the gate areas, and the jetway. Queuing needs to be rethought. So does airport security where passengers shouldn’t be standing body to body, shouldn’t be placing their belongings on poorly sanitized equipment or walking barefoot through screening devices. And so too does immigration where queuing will be problematic as well.

Security will have to stop requiring that you hand over your ID, so that they can touch it. This should be automated. (Get CLEAR and use their iris scan, not finger prints.) TSA, airport and airline employees will need to go through the same layers of screening that passengers are put through. And government is going to need to focus on air flow and air quality in the cabin – talking about HEPA filters isn’t enough, the more we learn about how air circulation carries the virus. That work needs to start now but my sense is that it isn’t happening.

People will need to wear masks and carry hand sanitizer. And wash their hands regularly. TSA excluding hand sanitizer from 3 ounce liquid limits needs to be made permanent.

And those at the greatest risk will need to avoid gatherings. It’s not possible to completely isolate the elderly who have significant confounding conditions, after all there are people who need to care for them who may themselves get sick and spread the virus. But for most people there will be a decision about acceptable risk combined with measures that reduce spread of the virus and imperfect measures that may amount to theater (to make citizens feel their government is ‘doing something’) as much as to prevent the virus from traveling.

About Gary Leff

Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary »

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  1. Wasn’t some guy arrested for wearing a hazmat suit on a plane last month? At the time, everyone thought he was crazy. Well not so much anymore!!! Funny how much can change in a matter of weeks.

  2. I’m afraid it could take years for all of that to happen.
    Fully automating passport control everywhere at all airports in all countries while making sure illegal visitors get caught properly sounds almost impossible.

  3. Gary, you hit upon a point that all of us know but few choose to verbalise–this virus is going to hit all of us, in one way or another. It’s just a matter of when. Sure, we can hole up in our bubbles and wait for a vaccine for 2, 3 years–but really, how many of us can live that way? And what of so many of us that think we may have had it, but aren’t quite (meaning, 95%) certain? If only we had an accurate antibody test!

    In the meantime, the best thing we can do is take precautions, many of which you listed. There is something else we can do that you haven’t mentioned–stay healthy. For many of us, myself included, that means losing weight, and reducing my blood pressure, BMI, and blood sugar (or pre-diabetes) levels. Do deep breathing exercises to strengthen my lungs and improve O2 levels. Get more rest. Take vitamin supplements if needed–I have homes in Florida and Mexico, I am out in the sunshine, but nevertheless, I am ALWAYS vitamin D deficient. My skin just doesn’t convert sunshine to vitamin D, no matter what. Bottom line: take better care of our health, which for so long many of us have taken for granted.

    I think we will all have to come to terms with this virus, our vulnerability, and increase our levels of acceptance.

  4. So what about connecting through a Heathrow, its not feasible to quarantine those people. My goodness a weekend trip with a connecting flight could take almost 3 weeks if thats the case.

    People need to use their brain here before panicking anymore.

  5. I’m continually amazed that the airlines and business-in-general aren’t pressuring the White House and other political leaders for comprehensive, large-scale testing and tracing.

    It’s the only way to get consumers and the economy back to anything resembling normal

  6. Gary-
    Or we can just wait for there to be SOME type of treatment, and not travel until then. I can’t see trade shows starting before a vaccine, or a VERY good treatment. No one is going to go to Disney or to a large festival or event…I know its ‘your brand’ to talk about how travel will recover, but honestly, its not going to for at least a full year. Its it optimal? No…but its realistic.

  7. @Jaymar01 they are a bit (check the ‘economic task force’ members, like Mark Cuban…but many don’t want to piss off dear leader, since he seems to think everyone is tested before they do anything, and refuses to understand that we are SEVERELY lacking in testing.

  8. The question was “What needs to happen for people to travel safely again.” The answer involves more than airports and airplanes. Its the same as the economy vs public health question. Travel will comeback when people think the virus is controlled. If people don’t think the virus is controlled, travel and the economy will continue to suffer. Knowing the prevalence of infection in the population requires testing on a mass scale.

    B/t/w if health insurers are not convinced Covid-19 is under control and won’t resurface in a material way next year, look for much bigger than normal big increases in insurance premiums. Self insurance seems like a very bad idea these days. And just wait for the inevitable tax increases to pay for all of the bailouts. TANSTAAFL.

  9. Having moved to Malta for retirement a year ago, we have a slightly different perspective. First of all, Malta has one of the highest testing rates in the world. Second, they shut down the airport and ferries at an early stage. Mandatory lockdown was in place early on. Anyone out that was in quarantine was fined E3,000 for each time out (one French person was fined E9,000). So, Malta was blessed with only 4 deaths. And now, the reinfection rate is .54%. Germany is also at a low status. And so, for that matter is Finland, where my wife is from.

    It is quite logical that planes can fly from Malta to Germany, with onward connection to Finland. No reason to allow flights to UK, US, Italy or Spain. That is one way to bring back flying.

  10. KimmieA – It’s interesting you brought up Vitamin D. It’s been recommended lately as potentially beneficial in strengthening our systems against flu and the CV19 virus.

    Vitamin D deficiency also been mentioned as a potential link between the outsized occurrence of the virus’ infection and death rates among black Americans relative to their demographic share. Blacks are D deficient much more commonly than whites.

  11. Are you talking to industry experts about this?

    Soon, travel will be much more restricted. Daily life will be more restricted. It is common sense that ordinary business cannot be conducted until there is a vaccine or drug therapy to reduce the severity of the disease. Airlines can’t operate at 50% capacity and almost no other businesses can. Most businesses operate on thin margins at normal capacity. How can people not see this?

    You and others with voices are in for Stark realizations. There are only two paths forward without a vaccine or therapy. One is continuing to send people into the community and at increased rates. That means exponentially more deaths and that won’t be tolerated. The other is what will happen and that’s nationalized economies worldwide with people forced to stay home.

    Travel? I will be surprised if personal travel is still allowed at all in a few months time.

    This is wartime. Think of people volunteering and being drafted to fight axis powers. Think of great depression era government programs. This hasn’t dawned on you yet and not for most people but it’s coming.

    I don’t see a tolerance for 10,000 people dying every week in America which is what will happen if we open up to anything approaching normal capacity. Again it is common sense. Proximity to other people means transmission.

    Sure, some stupid leaders will try “reopening.”. You’ll see what happens.

    Testing? Contact tracing? Short of a draft and conscription and necessary cultural buy-in, no chance that works.

    This talk of flying or leisure travel anytime soon is fantasy talk.

    You’re also likely wrong about the vaccine timeline. Recent reports suggest widespread deployment available within 12-18 months. See Oxford and Moderna candidates. Also see Gates and other reports of vaccine manufacturing to begin before trials are over. Cost benefit already baked in. If the science works, which we’ll know in three months, they’ll get the doses out.

  12. Wyatt’s response is possible the stupidest thing on the internet today.
    Congrats Wyatt!!

    I’m on a Delta plane now, it’s 60% full actually. These aren’t all doctors and ‘first responders’ (whatever that phrase means in the context of a viral infection?)

    Lots of people sitting next to each other.
    Me, I was on a long weekend for fun in the Midwest.

    And you know what? I’m flying again on Tuesday for a 6 day road trip.
    And after that? I’m flying again a few days later.

    Nothing has changed that much about it. No one asks for immunity cards, no one is checking temperatures – and it’s the same herd mentality of get on, sit down, shut up and fly in the air.

    See, I’m doing it *every* week. Traveling around, staying in hotels, restaurants, whatever. Aside from there being a lot less people, as soon as restaurants open again – it will be pretty much normal.

    Nothing will change long term – why *should* it??
    Because of some virus Wyatt is scared of, but normal people realize is utterly not at all scary or ‘pandemic’ worthy?

    So, good work Wyatt – enjoy your tinfoil hat and crackpot theories.
    Over 100,000 people a day are flying in the US. And imagine that will grow exponentially over the summer.

    I’d personally guess in 3-4 months, no one will remember this.
    There will be some other crisis that we have to be ‘very very very worried’ about. Like always.

  13. @Howard its because of people like you that we WILL be stuck inside for a year. Your ignorance is threatening all of us, much less the people who are most likely to die from this virus. There is a reason why airlines have been saying there is almost a NEGATIVE demand in travel, and its NOT because everyone is like you, thankfully. Please go inject yourself with Clorox as that is what is recommended by your leader to solve all of this.

  14. Each year close to 500,000 people a year die in the U.S. due to smoking, and 40,000 due to second hand smoke. I don’t smoke. Some choose to and we allow it.

    I think that if I wear a mask when others are around and particularly if near someone especially vulnerable, and follow the sensible cleanliness guidelines, I can significantly reduce the risk of coronavirus to me and those I come near.

    We are going to be living with this threat for a while, but we’ll need to accept getting back to work and life with less than a perfect assurance of safety, just as we do with many other choices we make..

    We need to make sure the health care system isn’t overwhelmed, so the restrictions that have been in place were needed, and will be for a little while longer, but there’s a limit to how long we can be expected to be totally governed by the virus.

  15. @daves That’s a ridiculous argument. There is no way for you to exponentially infect people with smoking, as unhealthy as it is. People will always die, but we are over 200000 people dead from this IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS. Those are people who would have been alive if it wasn’t for this virus. You could be infected, and not know it…you can’t really smoke without knowing it.

  16. The reality is probably somewhere in between Wyatt and his Howard. People are going to take more precautions than Wyatt; we’re all going to be wearing masks everywhere. But Howard, people are tired of being inside. They just are. They aren’t going to cower in place for two years, and they aren’t going to stand for governments telling them to do so. To bend the curve? Sure. But effectively everywhere in the US, there isn’t a medical emergency now. There are sufficient beds, ICU beds and ventilators. Most people aren’t getting really ill when they get it. Some are, and it’s tragic. But the cure is getting worse than the disease. People not getting medical care they need for other ailments. Millions unemployed and at risk in the midterm for losing their houses. Suicide skyrocketing. It’s unsustainable, and even in blue states the governors know it. That’s why everyone is talking about reopening plans. Even in states where the governors don’t want to open up anytime soon, they know they have to at least talk about it and give people hope. Will some places open up too much too soon. Almost certainly. It’s what’s great about federalism. We have 50 states, and they can all learn from each other as they try different things. We’ll all figure it out. America is a great place, with different people in Cali than Texas, in Georgia and Michigan. Heck, in Dallas and Houston and Austin all in Texas. God Bless It.

  17. Social distancing at big airports, aboard aircraft, at immigration lines is almost futile. One sneeze, cough and the aerosol droplets are floating about. HEPA filters ain’t gonna help. Leaving the middle seat open isn’t going to help. Deep cleaning surface areas isn’t going to stem the droplets in the air. On and on. It is what it is with regards to how the virus transmits.

    The bottom line is that individually people will have to keep tabs on the progress of this virus and determine their own risk factor when it comes to air travel, use of public transport, taking vacations, etc. To each their own.

    You are your own free person and can make free decisions. If you don’t think so, then you are enslaved. Decide for yourself how to live your own life. Too many are brainwashed, weak and indoctrinated and allow others and institutions, of whom they do not know and whose motives are not for your well being, to decide the course of their lives.

    There is indeed a pandemic, virulent, deadly with too many unknowns as to the long-term health impacts upon the infected. Ergo the name ‘novel’ (i.e. new) coronavirus.

  18. @gonzo There is a HUGE difference between allowing people to have VERY limited contact by shopping and mass travel and events. I am not saying we will all be locked in our homes for 2 years, however I think the days of business travel and tourism is pretty much dead for the next year or so until we have some form of treatment/cure. Even Disney is preparing to not open this year.

  19. @joelfreak I didn’t fully develop my argument because a comment box is not a good place for a long form essay.

    My point was that we allow people to smoke despite the hundreds of thousands of deaths each year. We do have some sensible restrictions. When we flatten the curve on COVID19, which is close, we need to accept there will still be some deaths and the risks of living life will not be zero.

    I believe that we can have sensible expectations for cleanliness and mask wearing in respect to travel and other normal life activities so that a person can limit (not eliminate totally) risks to themselves and others without giving up so many things that make us humans.

  20. Joel – I don’t disagree that concerts/sporting events and the like are non-starters for now, but business travel will start back up, even at a reduced level. People aren’t going to stay home. But you’re right, they aren’t going to Disney, Vegas in any significant numbers or to big sporting events. The NCAA is prepping to play football in the spring, which should tell you all you need to know about this fall.

  21. Excellent post Gary, and while the reality may indeed be a ‘compromise’, it is possible that those with the ‘cavalier’ attitude about this virus will be like those that celebrated in San Francisco or Philly over a hundred years ago; only to see mortality leap thereafter. It’s also why, despite calling the bottom for the S&P last month; I’ve concerned now; and believe the projected rally is nearly exhausted. There are selected small-caps involved in security (or a couple novel treatments FDA is allowing) that I might (at ingerletter.com my advisory service) continue suggesting tiny speculative positions in; otherwise not getting overly excited now. I’m loyal Delta Elite for years; and cancelled 2 speeches so far this year and know I can’t go to IFA (Berlin) as I usually do; or even risk CES next January; or so it appears for now. Keep up the good coverage!

  22. So many posters here — and in the public at large — are completely missing the emerging science regarding COVID-19. This is largely due to the current woeful state of our media, but still. Reality check: COVID-19 is both highly contagious and not very lethal (at least if you’re not in the narrow high-risk group). We can “slow the spread,” but no amount of testing, lock-up, or practical human intervention is going to stop this spread. And that’s OK. Everyone is going to get this virus, or it’s going to fizzle out (possibly due to herd immunity). I mean, just look at this latest prison data: everyone gets the virus, and basically nobody dies. That’s been the pattern in every contained facility, starting with the Diamond Princess. Running a zillion tests isn’t going to change this outcome.

  23. Gonzo is right about the pragmatic middle ground

    Masks sufficient to get on with things

    My favorite is people with masks standing in line because a big box store has to limit the number of patrons

    With a mask required what is the need for arbitrary distancing?

  24. Gary is asking us what needs to happen for people to travel safely again? How about a PLAN from the POTUS as to how we get out of this mess. It doesn’t take an investigation to know drinking Lysol isn’t the answer. Our President needs to stop watching TV and present a science-based PLAN to the American people.

  25. This is the greatest challenge to the travel industry and pales in comparison to 9/11. On top of the health issues, many economic issues remain. I see trade shows all wiped out this year, with significant concern for next year as well. Gonzo made some good points.

  26. What people are not understanding, and this conversation is an excellent example, is the required sacrifice. You are looking at it from a naive perspective. During world war 1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam we asked you to serve (rather, we forced you). People on this thread think this virus is going to let up after a few months. And they think if we reopen the economy and send people back to work, only a few more will die. More than a few will die. And is it going to be you that goes back into an unsafe workplace? You’re volunteering?

    Public health experts will have the government force you to stay home, just as they are now. That’s your sacrifice and we’re not asking. Stay home. That will protect you and your neighbors.

    In the meantime while saving a hundred thousand lives or more, we will endure economic pain the current generations have never known. Thankfully the government has learned from the great depression and the great recession. We can print money and inject cash.

    But what you need to understand are both the circumstances here and the required sacrifice. Most here evidently don’t.

    I’ve been in the points game for many years and I’m as heartbroken as anyone here about being grounded. The points game was pre pandemic. We are at war. We need everyone to buy in. Please stop selfishly asking to reopen without scientific evidence and stop complaining that you are tired of staying home as if you’re being asked to fire a rifle in a combat zone.

  27. Nice post Howard. It’s fascinating that almost everyone on this thread have bought this ruse, hook, line and sinker.

  28. I will also point out that the behavior one poster here described is at the most basic level criminal in most states right now. In my state he would be subject to a citation and if repeatedly cited, potentially arrested.

    It’s not a joke.

    At a minimum folks, please obey the law. If your state government has ordered you to stay home and you are leaving for a reason not exempted, you are breaking the law.

    Again I suspect law enforcement will be more aggressive with this in the coming months.

  29. @Wyatt said: “Public health experts will have the government force you to stay home, just as they are now. That’s your sacrifice and we’re not asking.” How is the arrogant “we”.

    (1) Sure, I remember electing health experts to run the country. While the health experts are ordering us around, they should pay attention to:

    (2) Amendment One, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” Worship, assembly, and protest are “ok”.

    (3) Amendment Four “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.” No, you cannot force everything home prison without cause. Nor is it “OK” to put everyone in a database and track all movement.

    In any case, to take such tyrannical tactics, would require an Act of Congress approved by the President. And the courts would still have to review such an act for constitutionality.

  30. I think Howard and James N are the same person…assuming Faux News is your “source” of news?

  31. @Wyatt: “In my state he would be subject to a citation and if repeatedly cited, potentially arrested.” Seriously. I have read all the posts. None even come close to being criminal. Which state do you live in? Does your state know it also has to abide by the Bill of Rights. Unbelievable.

  32. As other just saying says, lots of people are going to get it. The crazy models about 3 million ppl dying hasn’t borne out, and people are TIRED of being at home. We had a town open up against the TX governor’s directives, and every restaurant in town had an hour wait (the stare shut it down after a night). Even my liberal ‘the president is an idiot and the scientists say we should all stay home for two years’ are ready to get it, get over it, and get on with their lives. They said, don’t be idiots ppl.

  33. @OJS, You are correct we didn’t elect health experts to run the country. We elected a President. But the President is missing in action along with the rest of the administration like OSHA and FDA. He said we are in a war. Okay, wars are won with minimal casualties when there is a well-thought-out strategy, i.e., a PLAN. Trump. Plan. Ha ha.

    Where’s the Trump plan to defeat coronavirus? Where’s the leadership domestically and internationally? Using household cleaners on humans, now that’s a stable genius (in his own mind) for you.

    Coronavirus is a global problem requiring a global response. What’s the plan for a vaccine? You would think the US would be leading the effort. Trump has no credibility with our friends on the world stage. They are leery of working with him because they know he will turn on them at the drop of a hat.

    In the face of coronavirus Trump is feckless. He can’t bully it. He can’t flatter it. He can’t insult it. He can’t bribe it or fire it. As the virus ravages the country he can only lie and rely on his tactic of last resort – accept no responsibility, blame others. How long are you going to keep making excuses for this pathetic human being.

  34. @John. No, I do not think WHO could solve the crisis either. Trump never told anyone to drink Lysol, either. That was the mainstream media distortion of what he said. Like I have said before, you are smart, except for watching CNN all day.

  35. Every single one of us is fully aware of the mainstream media’s analysis of Trump Administration’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Christopher DeMuth in the 4/17/2020 WSJ, interesting commentary “Trump Rewrites the Book on Emergencies”. He writes: “Throughout history, national emergencies have led to a more powerful and centralized federal government and to the transfer of federal power from Congress to the executive branch.” Examples are: from Bush 2 Department of Homeland Security, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and from Obama, the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010. By comparison, “This time, the federal response rests largely on state and local government and private enterprise, with a wave of deregulation clearing the way. The Trump administration has seized no new powers, and Congress has stayed energetically in the game.”

    This commentary is behind the WSJ paywall, but Hudson Institute has also published a copy which is not behind a paywall. If you want to read an alternative view, it makes an interesting read.

  36. @OJS, Somebody needs to solve the blank crisis. It doesn’t have to be WHO. Our leaders need to figure it the blank out. This administration is too busy protecting the President from himself rather than protecting Americans.

    This is what the President of the United States said on TV to the American people.

    “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.”

    Trump also talked about using light to treat people who are infected. He said a “very powerful light could be used to hit the body or be brought inside the body through the skin or some other way.”

    When Bill Bryan from DHS’ science and technology section was asked if household cleaners should be injected into humans, Trump interrupted to say “It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. But it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”

    When he was criticized for irresponsibly spreading harmful information, Trump lied to us with a straight face and claimed he was being sarcastic – just joking. Are you gullible enough to believe that? Do Trump supporters even care?

    You are smart except for watching Fox News and listening to Trump who both claimed coronavirus was a hoax and then told us it was under control.

    My question stands. How long will you keep making excuses? People are dying. The economy is a disaster. Rome is burning. The Emperor fiddles.

  37. And yet the MD gov, a Republican, reported getting hundreds of calls about people asking if disinfectants are safe to ingest. Why? Because the temporary occupant of the WH suggested it on national TV.

    And no, it wasn’t “sarcasm” as he later claimed. Not even Fox can defend him these days. He is a true national embarrassment.

  38. @ojs What chump said to Dr. Birx is “can we inject disinfectants in our body or maybe ultra violate light?” I suggest chump be the first recipient of his suggestion and also take a hydro chloroquine pill at the same time while watching Fox fake news. Ojs I suggest you do the same thing while sticking a light bulb up your ass. Do you and chump some good and might give you some brains.

  39. @John. I repeat, I do not think you are a nitwit like UA-NYC. But when you lie that Trump said that people should drink Lysol and that he said “coronavirus was a hoax”, it makes you look like an idiot. When you righteously go on for half a page trying to prove he did, you priorities are mixed up. I saw the original presentation which stretched several hours, most likely he misspoke; however, I believe he feels that having mainstream media go on about it for days or weeks, will help him in the end.

  40. @Rog. “Ojs I suggest you do the same thing while sticking a light bulb up your ass.” Classic example of enlightened liberals. They want conservatives to die, because conservatives disagree with them. Liberals like Rog have a tyrannical mindset, if you don’t think like them, you are clearly an enemy of the people. And they call you every name in the book.

  41. At the current rate of slightly less than 1,900 deaths a day by the end of the year the US will have 500,000 deaths confirmed to COVID-19.

    And many more incremental deaths that are unconfirmed but that wouldn’t have taken place had hospitals not been overwhelmed. Yes, COVID-19 is just like the flu and we need to “reopen” the economy — because while people are dying all around, consumers will be going out to restaurants, concerts and otherwise spend like normal!!!

    Irony apart, the virus is like a cancer: you either pay a small amount to treat it early (surgery, whatever) or you wait until it metastasizes and you’re screwed. Being screwed seems to be what the mainstream media (Fox News, which has the largest audience) advocates, and following the mainstream media is how the US got to be in this sorry state when South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, and Singapore are all doing far far better (in both number of deaths and economically) even though they got magnitude more travelers from China than the US ever did.

  42. We all saw Trump “misspeaking” (no, it was no such thing).

    If the CEO of Lysol had asked his advisors during a press conference to look into disinfectant “by injection inside or almost a cleaning”, he would have been fired within hours by the board. No excuses, no pass the buck to others that weren’t even involved in the comment (the media!), no ability to go in front of the cameras again. Sent home with a box of belongings.

    It was as deplorable as it looked.

  43. @OJS, I quoted Trump. Do you deny the quote? Making excuses for Trump’s ridiculous lies and statements makes you look like an idiot. Why lower yourself for him?

  44. @John. I watched the briefing. So he was rambling on about light, disinfectant, and sunlight. He turned to the Doctors and asked them to look into it. Yea, he should have engaged his brain before rambling on, but not a biggie. No way you could interpret his comments as suggesting to people ignore all the poison labels, and inject themselves with Lysol or bleach. The press manufactured that story by going to experts and asking them if they recommended injecting their product.

    No moving on to his comments. I have a violife toothbrush sanitizer, which is supposed to use UV light. Never used it, but it seemed cool at the time. I also have an ultraviolet water sanitizer. I bought it when I traveled to a place where the water was toxic and there was supposed to be a shortage of bottled water. Actually, there was bottled water everywhere, so I never used it. Ultraviolet light would probably be good, but I have never test it with real life bacteria or virus.

    Beyond that, modern medicine often works through toxic drugs. Chemotherapy is toxic to humans. Hopefully, it kills the cancer before the human dies. One treatment for hookworms is to give the patient a drug similar to nerve poison. It causes the hookworm to slow down, and the body covers the hookworms with calcium and that is a cure. In fact, most drugs they inject into people, is toxic at too high a dosage. Nobody should be injecting themselves with anything, unless under doctors orders. Common sense.

    Now, John, I know you have a brain and you do not actually think Trump was recommending that random people inject themselves with bleach or Lysol. If you are going to watch the media narrative, try to be at least a little little little bit skeptical. Remember, every day, every newsman wakes up, with the goal of taking out Trump today. It is their dream, their passion, and it is obvious by their demeanor.

  45. Guys, unfortunately you can’t deprogram a cult via blog posts. If Trump said the sky was green, these guys would fight to the death that it was. The problem is, they endanger all of us, and all the people who WON’T be able to survive this if they get infected. Here in NY we are counting the dead daily by the HUNDREDS. Its not a joke.

  46. Right. But the rest of the country, other than LA County, Louisiana and maybe one other (NJ?) aren’t. We have 50 states, and they’ll each go their own way in trying (or not) to get people back to work.

    In terms of actually ‘solving’ a crisis, none of the last three presidents were very effective, and that’s by design (Trump=Corona, Obama=Economy and Infrastructure, GWB=Terrorism).OU rFederalist system is made to give states most emergency powers, not the federal government. The Feds are there to throw shared funds at a problem and to manage the currency/markets in a situation like this, not tell people in Spokane, Sarasota and Des Moines that they all have to approach a challenge the same way.

    We’re still fighting terrorism, we still haven’t finished all those ‘shovel ready projects’ and, however you feel about him Trump (or Pelosi, or Schumer or McConnell) isn’t going to solve the COVID case. Stop asking him (her/him/him) to do so.

    On another note, and I’m now guilty too, this was about travel originally, not politics. I know they are kinda wound up together, but this is probably a better convo for the NYT, WaPo or whatever site is equivalent on the right (I’m pretty dead center, and don’t subscribe to either NYT or WaPo either).

    How do I get off the ‘follow up comments’ email? Geez…

  47. @Gonzo: said “How do I get off the ‘follow up comments’ email? Geez…” I once clicked follow emails and I was getting follow-ups for well over a year. Never did that again.

  48. Trump is a national shame and embarrassment in so many ways. That Trump is both the wrong kind of person to lead the greatest country on earth and a sleazy charlatan is not new. But what is new is that: (a) this virus situation has made Trump’s life more difficult too; and (b) Trump’s typical ways no longer inspire the same level of public confidence even amongst as many of his followers as used to be the case before this major, inescapable crisis landed on his “watch”. This is a crisis where his use of smoke and mirrors rhetoric and scapegoating makes things worse in a way that is increasingly difficult for even his followers to escape.

    Trump’s supporters are not all deranged, but Trump’s deranged supporters are his most vocal and “creative” supporters and would fit in well with infamous government propagandists from the World War 2 era and before.

    I wonder how many of America’s November 2016 voters have voter’s remorse for not voting in favor of Hillary Clinton as President in that race against Trump.

    @Gary Leff, do you yet regret that Hillary Clinton lost the election in November 2016 and didn’t have your support in that election? We all make mistakes at times, but I am glad that was not one of my mistakes. But unfortunately too many US citizens made that mistake and now the country and the world are paying the price for that mistake.

    Make America great again: vote out Trump in November 2020.

  49. @GuWonder. Did you forget, in response to one of your rants, Gary Leff said he voted for Hillary Clinton, because Gary was worried that Trump might find the button to the atomic bond.

    Personally, I would say that nobody had remorse for voting for Trump over crooked Anti-Semitic Hillary. The game for the democrats is to manufacture more votes. Hmm, makes me wonder, GuWonder, are you in the game? How many times did you vote in the last Presidential election? How many illegals did you get to vote? How many absentee ballets from mentally in-firmed did you gather? How many dead people did you register? GuWonder, you have to do your part for the democrat party? Just find some former Acorn members and they will tell you what to do.

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