Back in September I revealed that JetBlue was planning to move to Amazon’s new satellite wifi service that was promising to compete with – and even exceed the performance of – Starlink. But it was going to take awhile for the system to be commercially operational. JetBlue announced this plan shortly afterward.
Now it appears that American Airlines is talking with Amazon about new wifi service as well.
- American, for a long time, had the best-performing wifi in the U.S. airline industry. But they charged a premium for it.
- Other carriers like Delta caught up, moving over to ViaSat service.
- And Delta joined JetBlue in pricing wifi at $0. Southwest wifi is now free. So American is moving to free next month.
- But Alaska and United are moving to Starlink, which vastly outperforms ViaSat. And when wifi is free usage spikes, and ViaSat really drags.
American today outperforms Delta wifi, for a fee, but performance will degrade when wifi becomes free. American needs to stay competitive with United, which will offer free Starlink. That service isn’t just fast – there’s effectively no latency. It is the same or better than connecting online from the ground. So they’re in talks with Amazon about replacing ViaSat with something better.
“While there’s Starlink, there are other low-Earth-orbit satellite opportunities that we can look at,” [CEO Robert Isom] said.
American has talked with Amazon, Isom added, but he declined to comment on the status of any discussions.
“We’re making sure that American is going to have what our customers need,” he said.
Amazon renamed ‘Project Kuiper’ to Amazon Leo last month. With their next launch on December 15, they expect to have 180 satellites in orbit. Their FCC authorization requires them to launch and operate 50% of their authorized satellites by July 30, 2026, and the remainder by July 30, 2029.
- They are authorized for 3,236 satellites
- 50% by July is 1,618 satellites
- They’d need to launch more than 6 satellites per day to hit that milestone.
- However Jeff Bezos has become friendlier with the Trump administration so presumably this could be renegotiated, but that just pushes out when the service is viable in commrecial use.
JetBlue is targeting the first inalls in 2027. It’s unclear whether American would do a full retrofit, or when they’d target for Amazon’s service. But we could see a limited trial in 2027 at the earliest. That would suggest we don’t see anything at meaningful scale until 2028 or 2029.
Still, it’s exciting because Starlink is several orders of magnitude better than anything else in service today. And Amazon Leo is a low earth orbit system like Starlink’s. It’s important that American is thinking about what’s next, even if it’s far off. They’re not settling for the product they have today, which will match Delta (but not United, Alaska).
However, Starlink is a product that works today, is certified and isn’t still theoretical. So I’d rather see a Starlink deal happen and aggressive rollout there.
(HT: @crucker)
So, basically, deal with Elon or Bezos. Pick your poison.
1990: Chillax. They’re not poison.
Whats wrong with ViaSat? GET RID OF DIAL UP PANASONIC WIFI. That service is absolutely atrocious.
@Common Sense — Yeah, probably worse. Bah!
People in real life don’t do speed tests.
They know whether they can do what they want and need to do. DL has had Viasat for years and it works just fine.
Is LEO internet faster? sure.
AA waited too long to buy satellite capacity from Viasat and now they apparently can’t get it.
btw, DL’s RJs and the 717s – if they proceed with the WiFi installations – are powered by Hughes LEO satellite service.
So, it is inaccurate to say that DL’s service now or in the future will be with high earth Viasat.
and Viasat is working on even faster and higher capacity satellites.
the game is far from over but challenges constantly- which is no different from every other form of technology.
@Tim Dunn – sorry, but perfect Delta’s inflight wifi performance across their domestic mainline fleet is dogshit compared to what Starlink delivers. It crawls underneath the bandwidth demands of passengers who want free. Is it better than the Gogo installs were? Sure. Is it incredible that we can get wifi like that in the air? Sure, if it’s 2011. But American’s ViaSat today is far better because so few people are using it…
So a Texas airline is spurning a Texas satellite service provider.
Sorry but $28 a flight on AA Viasat is too expensive and horrible bandwidth. Not even mentioning Panasonic widebodies which are unusable.
@Tim Dunn: Virtually everyone runs speed tests. Those who don’t regurgitate the results of those that do.
@1990:
“Marko Jukic
@mmjukic
·
Oct 20
For whoever is keeping score, @ElonMusk has cofounded the 1st, 2nd, and 5th-most valuable private companies in the world right now, as well as the 10th-most valuable public company in the world. I genuinely don’t understand why anyone feels courageous enough to bet against him. x.com/unusual_whales…”
no, L3, real people do not care about speed tests.
They know whether they can do what they want or not, not whether it is “shit” or not.
I have never failed to be able to do what I need on DL internet.
Is it as good as my home internet? no. But I don’t expect it to be.
And, AA doesn’t use ViaSat on their wide bodies, except the new 789Ps. So, no free wifi on those planes. For me it is no issue at all. As long as an airline allows me free wifi access to their website or app, I’m OK with that. But, of course, I have no work needs.
AA should sign a short term deal with Starlink, until amazons constellation gets operating. It’s going to be like 2028 before they actually get fully operational.
One of the reasons I avoid AA on intercontinental travel is because of the poor wifi service (and the seemingly constant delays/cancellations).
United is going to crush it when it comes to business travel… if people actually need to work while flying.
@L3 — “So, you’re telling me there’s a chance…” For real, wish he’d stick to rockets, satellites, electric cars, and batteries, and less so, controlling social media and *subtly* promoting white supremacy, but, modern-day Henry Ford’s gonna Henry Ford, I guess…
@Tim Dunn: “He is richest who is content with the least” — Socrates.
@1990
I guess reality is white supremacy then.
@1990: We are observers of the greatest inventor of the century. And a self-proclaimed free speech absolutist.
@Walter Barry — No. But, please do tell us what you really think. Don’t hold back. Details. Go.
Gary Leff, “sorry, but perfect Delta’s inflight wifi performance across their domestic mainline fleet is dogshit compared to what Starlink delivers. It crawls underneath the bandwidth demands of passengers who want free.”
UA’s former IT Chief, Linda Jojo said onboard wifi was by far the biggest problem on her plate. She said Starlink solves all of the myriad of problems with ViaSat & other high (geo) orbit systems. As with aircraft orders there is a huge first mover advantage.
The first mover advantage then goes to B6 and then to DL.
There is no doubt that low earth satellites changed satellite internet but it doesn’t make high earth orbit satellite communications obsolete or no longer workable.
As with so many things, UA fan brats think that whatever they come up w/ leapfrogs them across every other airline.
The reality is that AA and DL have Viasat installations in place which are delivering high speed internet – free on DL for the past 5 years or so – and free on AA starting next year. DL already offers free high speed internet on most of its global route network.
Viasat understands the competition which is why they are working on increasing speed and capacity and reducing latency w/ their systems; that is simply the nature of technology. Anyone that doesn’t understand that it is precisely competition that keeps improving technology for everyone has been asleep at the wheel for about 50 years.
And DL is using a combination of high earth and low earth satellite solutions including via Hughes.
If DL doesn’t install the Hughes system on their 717s, they have clearly purchased the satellite capacity and will redeploy those antennae to other aircraft in their fleet.
and the reason why AA is undoubtedly searching for alternatives is because they were late to the party and cannot get the bandwidth from viasat to equip all of their fleet.
Competition is good. The notion that anyone’s position is fixed going into the future is nonsense.
DL has proven it has a strong first mover advantage among the big 4
L3, “Virtually everyone runs speed tests. Those who don’t regurgitate the results of those that do.”
TD, “high speed internet”
What speed is ‘high speed internet’?
@Tim Dunn — I mean, if they’re still up there, redundancy can be an asset, not a liability. At the end of the day, the passengers and users want reliable, consistent, high-speed connectivity, and do not have any sense of ‘brand’ loyalty to these providers. As for the 717s, yeah, if they’re gonna keep ’em for another 5 years, please, just add the antennae. Problem (nearly) solved. (Maybe seats with IFE, too, but, if BYOD is all we get, feels a bit like most-AA narrowbodies, just sayin’, at least WiFi, please.)
1990,
we are on the same page.
People want reliable internet and since you can’t do zoom calls on a plane, people want to be able to stream audio and/or video and access email and the internet.
Technology continually improves. DL will upgrade its service over time as technology becomes available. New competitors including Amazon will enter the space.
and I expect that the future of the 717s at DL will become public in the next few months if not weeks. Boeing would love to quit supporting the aircraft which would be possible if DL decides to retire them earlier than the earlier 2030 target.
and, yes, even with WiFi, the 717s will be the only mainline aircraft that would not have seatback AVOD which DL fully realizes.
I am betting that Boeing will increase and accelerate some 737 deliveries as part of a 787 order to allow DL to park the 717s in the next couple years.
nothing is set in stone and certainly in the airline business.
Every airline (at least in the US) has to play to win everyday.
@Tim Dunn — And, with the 717 it’s mostly ATL, DTW, and MSP to smaller airports in those regions, as I’m sure you’re well-aware. Most frequent, ATL-CLT/GSO/AVL/JAN/DAL, EWR-MPS/DTW. But, also, ATL to BHM, CLT, DAY, GSP, HSV, LEX, LIT, MCO, MOB, MYR, OKA, SAV, TLH, TUL; DTW to BWI, BUF, CLT, DCA, FWA, MEM, MKE, ORD, PHL, RDU, STL, VPS; MSP to CLT, MCI, MKE, ORD, STL, sometimes as well. Those are the folks affected. As I’ve taken a few of those NYC-MSP/DTW routes over the years, I can attest, I try to avoid the 717; ironically, there are ample alternatives, usually a220 is my preference (yet, others have caught on, and those tickets are more expensive, wonder why… the ‘2’ of the 2-3 in Comfort, even in back, is nice for couples, in case upgrades to First don’t clear), then a321/20/19 and 738/9, then CRJ9 and 717, last, because WiFi and IFE is limited (or not available). Sometimes, there’s an exciting 757 or a330, but, that’s a rare repositioning, it seems. It’s wild how much ‘diversity’ in aircraft type there can be here…
Timmy,
“The reality is that AA and DL have Viasat installations in place which are delivering high speed internet ”
to be clear on this. AA does. Delta does not on their mainline fleet or operating globally — due to their own choices with wifi provider and the 717. Stop making stuff up.
@MaxPower — Yeah, I’ll keep bashing DL’s 717, but I’m not letting UA off the hook for their atrocious 772 with 2-4-2 rear-facing ‘coffin’ seats up-front. Yikes.
Max simply is incapable of admitting that DL IS delivering free high speed internet to more customers worldwide than any other airline and has been doing it for years.
DL’s system works well; I use it regularly.
Did Starlink up the game? Yes. that is what technology does.
Competition on the internet service supplier side and on the airline side means that what exists today will lead to far greater levels of service in the future from more airlines and more suppliers.
Why some people think that “their airline” has reached the pinnacle of success with anything is beyond comprehension.
Agree with you guys. I flew on a DL 717 the other day, ATL-MEM. Uneventful but it was ~1 hr in flight time so lack of IFE and Wi-Fi was largely unnoticed, took a nice nap. (Somewhat unrelated, I recall Tim mentioning how Delta invests in their non-focus city SkyClubs and I must say my experiences in the formerly Northwest Memphis lounge, now DL SkyClub was pleasantly surprising vs my expectations).
I also agree that at some point speed is overkill. I’ve experienced United Starlink a couple times and was mightily impressed, but the DL Wi-Fi on my other recent flights were more than fine. If VFTW loads in 5 seconds vs 2 seconds at 35,000 feet, I’m okay with that, ha. Youtube played without buffering in either case. I guess if you’re doing something really intense it might make a difference but for my purposes any functioning Wi-Fi is a nice bonus.
In general I’m glad with the way the industry is heading with free Wi-Fi, very nice!