I love the idea of comments to my posts. I love that you can criticize me, disagree with me, and ask questions. I love that some of you have insights to offer each other, too.
And I’ve always been loathe to moderate comments. I’ve really only removed extreme misogyny, graphic sexuality, and non-public information about individuals (like the full name and address of another commenter who uses a pseudonym).
Part of it is that I don’t think I’ve especially sagacious as a moderator. If I start moderating ‘hostile’ or ‘off-topic’ comments, it’s a pretty thin line to start seeing comments critical of me as either hostile or off-topic. Wouldn’t the comments be much nicer without their invective? Wouldn’t it be nicer without the commenter who says I’ve got no idea what I’m talking about?
My general approach is that ‘it’s the internet’ and that what someone writes reflects more on their own character than on anyone else. And I grew up online in the pre-internet era, I’m still a little bit naively optimistic from those times (even though I saw the cesspool that usenet became).
I’ve never once gotten an email from a member that I can recall thanking me for having such a light touch in the comments. I’ve gotten many emails questioning the value of the comments section that flows from such a light moderating touch.
And the truth is I don’t love reading my own comments section. When I wake up in the morning, after several hours off-line, there’s a lot to go through. It’s not the first thing I usually want to do. The truth is I do want people to be able to disagree, to offer their opinions, and most of all to offer comments that are useful and constructive.
So I’m going to be a bit more aggressive in trying to ‘clean up’ the comments section, as an experiment.
- Expect to see more trolls banned. There are people who come to the comments to try to rile up other commenters. They do it under several names, sometimes to make it look like their controversial (often racist) opinion is widespread. And they do it under pretty thinly-veiled pseudonyms if you stop and think about it. In the past I might have blocked their IP address, so they’d use another. There are other tools at my disposal and I will use them.
- More comments will need pre-approval before going live. This won’t be most comments! But if your response to a post about a points transfer bonus is to point out that award travel has gotten more expensive under the (Biden/Trump) administration, expect that to go into a queue for my review. And don’t expect to see it approved, either. There are plenty of things in travel that are inherently political, and it’s fine to react to those things. But an off-topic rant that has nothing to do with the post, and off-topic politics and racism? Nah, not so much.
That said, I do get emails from time to time saying “I can’t believe you support X, because I saw it in the comments!” It’s a funny sort of reaction. Just because a comment was posted to the site 30 minutes ago doesn’t mean I’ve seen it. I have meetings! I have dinner with my family! I do sleep (sometimes).
And this site is just me. I write the content. I manage links. I look over the comments. There are no employees. Sometimes I miss things. But you’re always welcome to email me if you have questions or concerns.
Excellent! Tired of the off-topic, stupid political nonsense.
Happy to read you’re doing this.
Excellent decision!
Agree with JD- Sometimes, the comments are mean, and I am here to learn and share ideas and knowledge. I wonder why some people even bother posting, except if they are angry and take pleasure in getting a reaction. If you don’t find it useful, move on. There is plenty of content in the world.
To be honest I haven’t noticed many problems with the comment section here. The comments seemed pretty on point — certainly compared to, say, the comment section of The NY Times or Wall Street Journal, where literally every article is filtered through the most partisan lens possible. I’m surprised that you find the comments problematic. Are there examples of comment sections on old posts that you think got out of hand and wouldn’t be allowed under the new regime?
Love your articles, Gary. Dislike some of the comments from those who just want to spew hatred. Glad you are going to become more attentive to those!
It’s your blog so you get to set the rules. I think comments should be related to the topic of the post. Like what FT mods do.
Excellent
I’ve followed you for years and I think you’ve handled your site and the comments section wonderfully that whole time, including when I and others have respectfully disagreed with you. I support however you want to change it to make it better and I’m sure most agree. It’s your site, after all! It’s easy to get bogged down in comments and forget that most people don’t engage that way and are just getting good info from reading the posts.
Very happy you’re doing this, but I’m intrigued by some of your goals:
“There are people who come to the comments to try to rile up other commenters.”
“…if your response to a post about a points transfer bonus is to point out that award travel has gotten more expensive under the (Biden/Trump) administration, expect that to go into a queue for my review. And don’t expect to see it approved, either.”
I’ve had to discipline myself to not read some of your more overtly political or provocative posts, as I’ve found myself reading the comments and getting drawn in by the negativity. I think it’s worth noting that these lightly travel related posts seem to get more engagement than others. Are you going to back away from enticing people to wade in by not posting this kind of content in the first place?
Excellent! I’m so tired of the political crap that’s thrown around, usually the first comment has nothing to do with the story, just random political hate. Don’t care what side you are on, it has not place in a travel blog. I was getting sick of it on VFTW, esp this week.
Your site you can do what you want. I do tend to agree that the political back and forth between certain posters is distracting at times.
@Darin as I say in the post there are some travel-related topics that are inherently political, and it’s fair to discuss the politics of those things in the comments! It’s off-topic political comments I’m seeking to limit. Maybe that’s the wrong approach and by the way it isn’t done “to get more engagement” for what it’s worth, comments don’t really benefit me other than learning from the discourse. I write about things I find interesting or amusing. And it’s fine to disagree and call me out whether on politics or not. I just want to extend the limit on off-topic comments.
@RF for what it’s worth I was one of the first FlyerTalk moderators 20 years ago, and the among the first two site-wide ‘supermoderators’, but I don’t have insight into how moderating is done there today.
Great to hear you’re doing this!
Thank you for not completely removing comments like TPG did. It renders most of their articles useless (not that TPG’s were great to begin with).
Comments help add additional context, experiences, and commentary to your writing. In the ever rapidly moving/changing points/miles world, the ability for all to share is extremely important.
The comments section at OMAAT saved me the disaster of transferring hundreds of thousands of miles to Aeroplan when Lucky jumped the gun a bit about Singapore flights suddenly being bookable.
John, you must not be paying attention. Any regular reader of Gary’s blog is aware of the issue. It is the single most unappealing aspect about his website.
Rather than burdening Gary to illustrate to you “why,” how about you go back and read Gary’s articles over the past (say) three years and the comments thereto. And, frankly, this is Gary’s website and Gary doesn’t have to explain jack (poop) to you or anyone else. Gary’s statements in this post are a public service announcement to his broad community that he’s going to do something about what (evidently) a number of people have mentioned to be a detractor.
Great idea Gary. So boring to read the political agendas commenters push. Thanks
Thank You
Thank goodness! Between the quarter-screen ads that pop up when I’m trying to read one of your articles and the inane “it’s all the Republicans/Democrats’ fault” I was about ready to give up on VFTW … and I’ve been reading you for YEARS. I love reading peoples’ comments, so the posts from people just expressing their own skewed view of life instead of their opinion about an article are really irritating. People who blame Trump for everything are just lame-brains who can’t think.
To everyone else, to Darin’s point, so many of us have strong beliefs that are contrary to person X’s comments and we feel compelled to say something. Don’t. Just ignore the person. But, if self-control is not in effect, then let’s not make personal attacks about another person.
We should all keep in mind that no issue in play on this or any other blog is going to be resolved in the comments section . . . whether it is political or about the long lines at Delta SkyClubs.
@Gary – Very glad to read this, and I’m looking forward to a comments section with significantly less racism, trolling, and “politics as sport” (“politics” is about governance and policy… I think calling the vitriol that so many engage in “politics” does a disservice to us all).
@Gary: I will complement you on your extant ‘hands off’ approach. You essentially embodied the classical liberal view of free speech. I.e. the censor is the recipient. Nobody has the authority to censor on another adult’s behalf except through agreement.
This new policy sounds like a step back, and a waste of your valuable time.
Watch out Gary, Elon Musk might try to come buy the blog.
excellent. thanks.
Nothing signals low intelligence more than a commenter on any site who stoops to stupid nicknames like Drumpf or Brandon, etc. Want to talk politics as part of a relevant comment? Use some respect- refer to them as Mr.Biden and Mr. Trump and I will listen to what you have to say as you have class and manners.
But wHat aBOut mUH RiGHts to frEe sPEech!!!!????? This little blog has gone woke. Thanks Bernie.
Oh contrare!
“Wouldn’t the comments be much nicer without their invective?”
Gary, you have self acclaimed yourself, as an “expert”. That to me, is ego, Notwithstanding, subjective to every reader.
With 56 years in the hospitality industry, working in “every” conceivable aspect, I, in no way, can not, in good conscience, call myself an exp. But that’s just me.
You on the other hand, not only call yourself an expert, but you started this blog, and take a position, by posting what you believe, think or feel. I learned a very long time ago, “it’s not what you believe; it’s not what you think, and, it’s not what you feel. The only thing that is real, is what you “DO”!
You are either a moderator, in which you never input yourself. Or a reporter, who is suppose to “report ” the news, not, “make” the news.
So, you “own” what you write, particularly, when you give us, your “expert” opinion. That’s very profound. Further, when travelers respond to your narrative, and your venue elicits responses, providing they are done without profanity, and reasonable verbiage, it’s lame, that you now, have decided to edit them, so whatever they have written, matches your criteria. I presume, that’s what experts do. Now, you “are” truly the expert, because “you”, control your narrative.
Redacting anything from what readers have taken time to write, puts Gary in control. It’s so Russian and Chinese.
Suggest you either stop, allowing individuals to post entirely, or man up, to your critics.
I guess I am not sure, the “why” you started this blog. And I am confident, others feel the same. But a real “expert”, would or should, have thick skin and accept his peers, who probably are not, experts.
Respectfully submitted.
Robert aka The 56 year hospitality Veteran, still learning!
GOOD
MOVE
Can’t figure out how to send you an email … are you aware of the latest from Elliott? He was supposedly skiing in the Alps, had a bad accident, and broke his pelvis with ‘multiple fractures’, plus other nasty injuries. Took and posted a selfie all doped up from the hospital, and was on crutches the next day. Left the hospital after 2 days. I find it amazing that someone with a broken pelvis can walk at all, much less the next day. I’m an ex-forum advocate (jsn55), so I have a special interest in his shenanigans. One of my colleagues opined that perhaps he has a fundraiser coming up. It’s kinda amusing to read about his activities these days.
THANK YOU
Count me in the group that applauds this new policy. I’ve learned a great deal from the comments here, particularly when they add context and additional information. Travel blogs that disable them have become nearly worthless credit card-pumping sites.
You may want to go a step further and create a page that lists the frequent comments we see so often but are entirely unhelpful. That might discourage people from posting…
1. “Bonvoyed again.”
2. “My favorite hotel chain is superior and anybody who disagrees is an imbecile. G’Day.”
3. “Your posts about lounge overcrowding are lies because I had no trouble getting into the Sky Club yesterday.”
Of course, it won’t discourage these posts. But a few of us can dream.
If anyone does not like Gary’s policy, leave. Please. It’s that simple.
In celebration of my spending a quatrillion dollars today I agree 100% with your decision Gary.
I’m very glad to see this as I was debating deleting VFTW as it seems far too many people brought politics into it – and the back and forth was something I found distasteful and frankly, it seemed to be increasing. There’s enough strife in the world and all around us. If people wanna argue their points, let them do it face-to-face with whoever and not on a public forum.
Gary, thank you for doing this as I enjoy the column. I’ve just not enjoyed reading the comments most of the time, especially lately. Hopefully these agitators will move on to other sites if political bashing is their intention.
Excellent decision! It is ridiculous that with certain commenters whether here or at OMAAT, their only contribution is totally unrelated political comments. I am looking forward to reading a hopefully much more constructive comments section focusing on what we come here for.
@huey judy – I had not seen that.
My email is gary -at- viewfromthewing.com
@Robert – “you have self acclaimed yourself, as an “expert”. That to me, is ego,”
Decide for yourself, not every gets the touch in cheek slogan (at least it began as a joke in a conference room in February 2015, someone said it and said “we’re going to put that on your site”) and I’ve not paid much attention to it since.
@L3 – “This new policy sounds like a step back, and a waste of your valuable time.”
I still plan to be fairly hands off – I don’t have a ton of time! – but I also don’t much enjoy reading the comments on my own site much of the time, which makes it harder to go through and be helpful, and I don’t feel like that’s ok.
Very happy to hear this. It’s the right move.
very glad to see this, Gary.
Best Christmas (or whatever season anyone gives gifts for) to us ALL.
Your blog will be stronger and some of us will make sure we do our part to help you build your brand.
Thank you for being committed to growing and delivering an even better product.
Gary.
Spoken like a true expert!
Gary.
My apologies. So it was not you. It was others, who brought it up, and they are the same people, who put it on your blog. And, you have no control over what verbiage is used on your site. Is that correct?
Obviously not, and you allow it to stay. Now I understand.
This text is ridiculous! It is personal, and doesn’t belong anywhere, except on personal emails.
I think this is a good thing.
I have seen many blocks of comments go off into the political weeds and this usually just makes me stop reading the comments, possibly missing an actual interesting comment or comments.
This is exactly how “free speech” is supposed to work.
People should have the right to assemble and speak.
However when it becomes obvious that some are here for their own nefarious motives and detract from the value of assembly, they can always be shown the door.
A “right” to free speech only applies when it has to do with the government.
If one is being an ass, and they are doing it here (or just being an ass in life) then they are just an annoying gnat and should be swatted. (flyswatter, not SWAT’ed, just ti be clear.)
Gary is not the government. Gary is (as it relates to this page) is a company. And can do anything the hell he wants… as long as he’s not breaking the law.
Thanks Gary, for reminding people what freedom really is… because freedom, without responsibility, is anarchy.
Gary, this is a good move. I admit to sometimes being political on this site, though my political comments are almost always in response to a troll.
I am here to learn from the expertise of others, so a bit of moderation is necessary and welcome.
Sounds great to me. The comments section has not been “high value” lately, I was also migrating away. Seems to have been getting worse and people using it to grind their axe about whatever and not stay on topic.; some people think that the louder they shout and repeat themselves, the more they “win.”
We can get rid of the name calling and disrespectful nonsense. It’s your blog, so you’re the boss- but I like this.
And I think just in this comments section alone, you have some leads on 2 or three commenters to drop already! No reason to keep on hostile meanies that only comment to criticize
I don’t care if an article is about the long lines at Delta SkyClubs, I demand that you respect my Constitutional right to comment on how those long lines are actually caused by people of a particular political party or people of an undesirable skin color.
What a ridiculous position. This website is Gary’s private property. If someone was in your home and was speaking in any manner unacceptable to you, your private property rights prevail and the person’s free speech rights have nothing to do with it. What nonsense.
If you don’t like Gary’s policy, leave.
Good move, Gary!
To avoid the problem with users posting under different names, require registration. Then everyone will have unique profile, and it will be possible to “get to know” different posters. As it is, I often wonder if the post is from the same nasty user masquerading as someone else.
I, like many others who have posted, appreciate the time you put into your blog, Gary. As a libertarian-type, my personal orientation is towards unedited comments. That said, as a libertarian, my personal orientation is also towards letting bloggers adopt whatever policy they want. Gary is not the government, so “free speech” doesn’t seem a particularly relevant basis for deciding here.
Ideally, people would just be mature and not go into the ENDLESS cycles of nasty and sometimes vulgar attacks on each other. But they do, so here we are….
One request. Please don’t block the posts that dump on various service providers (e.g., “Bonvoyed!”). Seriously, I think this can be cathartic for some people who have had to deal with headaches caused by these businesses. Trashing Marriott or Frontier is different from trashing you, me, or Billy-Bob Commenter….
Happy Holidays Gary and All,
Thing 1
Fully supportive – about half the time I dip into the comments I get depressed about society.
How about giving viewers the opportunity to ‘up-vote/down-vote’ comments? And then have them sort using that? Maybe needs a technology change.
Also, Gary, if you put a star on comments that you find interesting (whether you agree with them or not) and have those rise to the top, that would also be helpful.
Just my 2c.
Perfect, thank you Gary.
Thank you, Gary!
Thing 1 reads the article then tells us his political views in the second sentence of his comment.
Libertarians are included in political opinions we don’t care about.
Long overdue, thank you.
Gary I read a personal attack on you in the comments in the last week that was over the top. I can fully understand why you’re doing this. It’s unfortunate but fully understood.
Long overdue, thank you. We don’t need a comment that just goes into a political rant. All those should be banned.
Amen sir, appreciate your approach here.
Good plan. Some of the old comments did reflect badly on you via association.
My personal moderation opinion is “no assholes”. It brings the vibe down and discourages regular people from commenting. You can be entirely politically neutral while still removing any comments that cross a line, be it “you wouldnt talk that way in front of my grandmother” or whatever other standard you use
Thank you Gary. Please clean up the comments. I’m supportive of disagreements on whatever the blog posts discusses, but the amount of trolling and off-topic harassment has made the comments extremely toxic and unproductive. “I disagree with xxxx” or “I agree with xxxx” is vastly different than “Trump sucks/Biden sucks” non sequiturs that inevitably infect any mature discussion.
Thank you Gary. This is long overdue. Comments are very helpful (which is why I no longer read TPG–when they turned off comments I was through), but some of the comments recently having absolutely nothing to do with the articles on your blog are over the top and should be moderated. Great move from a loyal fan who reads your blog twice a day. The racist stuff, the Brandon stuff, the Trump stuff and lately the fat stuff don’t belong here and just slow me down when I am trying to quickly get the information I desire. And, by the way, if you weren’t an “expert”, people wouldn’t be reading your blog (including the ones who are shocked . . . shocked . . . that you call yourself one).
I think part of the issue is that some of the stuff you are interested in like policy and politics draws the crazies.
I’m glad you are giving this a try, Gary. I hope it works. I’m skeptical. Five years ago, I thought the comments were a strength of this blog. Now I avoid them, and, frankly, visit the site less because of them. Nothing you’ve done, specifically. Jut kind of the way it is. I hope this cleans things up a bit.
Thanks @Johnny ! I think you just made my point.
Mazl Tov! And Happy Hanukkah.
I’m honesty surprised nobody actually appreciated your old style approach to moderation, with no bs censorship masked as “community standards”. Thank you.
As for the moderation, the only thing that missing in current moderation are allowed ad hominem attacks. Remove them and they will be fun to read again
Thank you, Gary. I’ve been reading your blog for a long time, but I agree that lately reading the comments lately have been less than helpful. So, I appreciate this step you are taking.
Happy Holidays to you and your family!
I think this is great Gary. I’ll have to moderate my own propensity for sarcasm a little. 😉 Thanks for an enjoyable site, and happy holidays.
Thank you! Comments can add a lot of value to a post, but VFTW has been attracting some awful people for years. I won’t miss angry political takes on posts that have little to do with politics.
Kudos… thank you!
Very nice! Time to silence some of the unnecessary noise in the background.
Great idea.
I appreciate the sincerity of this post. I left VFTW for a few years because of the unrestrained, naked racism in the comments. It was never my feeling that you *should* remove them, or that you necessarily endorsed them. But, you gets to make your choice to let them exist, and I get to make mine to leave.
I don’t really buy the “it’s the internet” idea because, when you host a site, it’s *your* corner of the internet, just as if you own a bar in a city and are bartending every night and it’s filled with racist assholes, you may not be a racist asshole yourself, but your tacit acceptance of those patrons is going to reflect on you; you can’t just shrug and say “it’s the city, it’s got good and bad people, everyone can look out for themselves.” I mean, you can, but then decent people don’t want to be there and you’re left with a racist asshole bar.
I also think you can own which posts might require closer attention, which was my original objection when I left. I mean, a lot of people give you shit for it, but I *like* that VFTW posts edgy, salacious, exploitative stories. I find them entertaining. But it’s these stories that invite the trolls to be at their worst. If a story involves a non-white person, there’s a very high chance that someone’s going to write something really nasty about that race’s people as a whole, and so that story is going to require more vigilance, than, say, a change to a partner route or a mileage sale.
I think you’re asking the right questions, Gary; it sucks and is a tricky business having to content moderate, as any social media operator will agree, but when you open the door to your place, you’ve gotta be prepared to throw out the jerks if you don’t want it to be a hellhole. Thanks.
Gary, keep up the good work. I definitely appreciate all you do. Your site is the only one i read consistently.
We need a lot more “good” in this world! Thank you, Gary for advising us on great things we may not know about in the travel world. And thanks to all the commentators who share other info in your replies. I’m a corporate travel agent and you help make my job easier. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year to everyone here.
@Gary, I just noticed the “Like” button at the bottom of the post (arrived by e-mail). It looks like there’s now a possibility to “like” someone else’s post…is that new?
Thanks for all of the hard work you put into the column. I’ve been a moderator and it can really suck up time and energy. I’m all for your changes.
Sounds good Gary. Enjoy your column.
Thank you. I had just about decided to let this blog go because of the blatant sexism and racism in the comments. I’m glad to see this won’t continue and I’ll be able to focus on the interesting, travel related content.
This news is clearly hitting a very positive note but let me remind people that they need to comment on the stories that Gary posts.
I too fully support these new rules. Light touch is fine, but nobody needs trolls. Least of all you, Gary. Keep up the good work.
Hip-hip! Good choice
@ Gary — You have to admit that you’ve been kinda encouraging the bad dehavior, especially the last few weeks. I thought you had decided to go all-in Jerry Springer. I was personally considering stopping all commenting since it had turned so sour. Mark me very glad to see this change. I wont miss the racists.
There are simply thousands of other places on the Internet where people who like political pissing matches can get their kicks. Sure some topics are inherently political, but even those can and should be discussed thoughtfully. I appreciate the new policy immensely. I love informative comments that help me understand travel, points and miles. That’s what should be encouraged.
Disagreement, as long as it is civil, is a good thing. Good luck with the new format.
I am OK with this. I think it’s really frustrating to see how many sites have turned off comments– to me, it suggests a sort of editorial infallibility that isn’t open to critique. VFTW is my main source for travel-related news, in part because I appreciate the fundamentally sound economics-based approach to so many articles (that’s arguably lacking among many other pointsbloggers) and the relatively minimal shilling of garbage products with high commissions (that’s unquestionably lacking among many other pointsbloggers– I get it, you want to monetize the site).
So while I’ve generally appreciated the open forum and diverse commentariat that comprises the VFTW community, I have found myself pausing and wondering why so many comment threads devolve into weird Trump/Biden non sequitur flame wars. I tell myself it’s valuable to get a perspective that is otherwise missing in my life, but while I have a light libertarian kneejerk reaction to this, I’m probably not going to miss it. So fair enough, Gary. Well reasoned, as usual. Thank you for having a light touch to the comments section, and for seeking a via media to keep it open while hopefully filtering the weird political/personal spam.
Good, thanks!
I am in total agreement with you Gary. I enjoy your comments and your point of view and your permissiveness in allowing the goofballs to have their say but some people just go a bit too far.
Fully support this approach. I find your articles often of interest, from which the comments very often detract.
I went back and read a follow up comment (to my comment) on the Orlando Airport post….and clearly it didn’t help. I think the world of you Gary, regardless of your political leanings, because you consistently deliver worthy news about the topics I want to follow. I just think you deserve more respect. I don’t do what you do…but I’m glad you work hard at something I can respect. Just saying thank you…that’s all. I’ll continue to read…and respect!
Gary, Your posts are ones I always read. Thank you for providing interesting and/ or entertaining information. The comments…your call. By now, I recognize the a lot of the agitator names & scroll by them. If their opinions matter to them so much, then their actual name should accompany the nasty comments, and not a pseudonym. For the most part, I enjoy reading the comments section
Thanks!
This is wonderful. Thank you! I can’t imagine you do enjoy plowing through them either. I enjoy seeing the genuine reactions from others who enjoy travel and reading these stories. It’s hard when everything has to be political (or personal toward you or another poster). I hated when TPG got rid of comments because as annoying as they are, the comments made reading more personal, but I also hate the constant trolling happening. This is the best move. Smart choice and I hope it works out well.
Glad you’re keeping the comments. Lotta extra work for you, but they add a lot overall even if not every single comment does.
Gary I trust your judgement more than any other blogger
You have had the thickest skin of anyone out there as well as the patience
Even when some have gone on the attack
Social media has become a more hostile space than we all started decades ago
Its a changed world and more are unhappy out there.
Hope you can find that balance and let truth ,honesty and positive discussions prevail without the anger and venom we sometimes see.
Your blogs discussions are some of the most relevant.Thank you for all your dedicated efforts
Happy Holiday season
I hope the moderation doesn’t add too much to the time your blog costs you.
And comments can be useful. I dropped TPG to the bottom of my to read list when he scrapped comments. Which means that most of the time it doesn’t get read at all.
Good luck!
Gotta give you props for the change.
Thanks Gary
Jim Lovejoy,
I agree with you that I don’t read aviation sites that don’t allow comments – even if I don’t participate in comments on that site.
News will be found by any site. Comments are unique.
They just need to be kept from going too far off the rails.
Posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic or users that repeatedly turn topics into political or other inflammatory discussions should be banned