Comments

1. While I recline slowly, I think telling/asking the person behind you is asking for trouble.

   I don’t see it as courtesy to tell someone. Just do it slowly.

2. Call the FA to be there as you recline and let her explain it to Karen

3. 1. I bet most of these recline stories posted by IGers and TikTokers are made up because it’s expected they always elicit a strong vocal response
   2. No need to be polite when reclining. The seats come with that functionality for a reason, and anyone sitting should expect the seat in front to recline at any time
   3. No one with lip fillers can ever be trusted

4. She’s cute and can do whatever she wants

5. Commercial air travel is War. It’s personal combat, everyone vs. everyone.

   We live in the 21st century where the legislators are captured by the pain merchants of an industry vital to OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

   To hell with you recliners and stuff your etiquette.

   Seat recline wasn’t an issued when every airline had 36″ pitch in coach.

   The last time i was reclined on the seat hit me in the face and I saved my machine screen by a split second.

   Stuff all of your comfort long-haul mealtime etiquette.

   What’s important for MY COMFORT is the cubic volume of air recycling between my face and the non-reclined seat in front of me.

   Just another non-rule the enforcement of which is abdicated by the cabin crew and their employers.

   I also love how Gary lists options that are not universally possible solutions depending on where one is flying to and from.

   F was not available for days in any direction. I had to be home that day. MCE required an overnight AND a connection the next day for a 24-hour door-to-door. LUV was sold out unless I wanted to fly 3000 miles out of the way the following day. Frontier? Spirit? My money? Shirley.

6. also, where’s the video in question?

   the posted link goes to net trash

7. Delta’s Comfort Plus is an elevated product that offers reclining seats with extra legroom to its premium, discerning guests.

8. I just never fly economy on long haul flights.

9. Sorry, Gary, imho you’re ‘way out on the wing with this one. Just because cars are capable of going fast, and it may make some people happy, even comfortable, to do so does not give them a right to run others over.
   The unfortunate fact of economy air travel as it has been warped by the comtemporary airline industry is that THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SPACE in which to sit, eat and work comfortably in one’s own paltry couple cubic feet, even before someone decides to take “their” half out of the middle of it for the coming hour (let.alone ten, for the love of God). My advice to the self-centered would-be recliners is to grow up, sit up, and give the person stuck behind them a break.
   It was unfair to call the woman who didn’t want to be made any more miserable than the airline already had done a “Karen”, for not wanting to be run over by the “un-carin'” passenger at the controls of the seat in front of her.

10. Karen vs Karen will not end well.

11. This was a few years back, but on a flight from SFO to LHR, the guy in front of me reclined at the earliest moment then left his seat until just before landing. As we deplaned I found out he spent the flight sitting next to his buddy.
    Civility just doesn’t exist anymore.

12. I stopped flying economy a long time ago. The cost of a first class ticket is worth every penny.

13. Of course you’re allowed. Tell her to recline her seat and she’ll have the same amount of space! It’s YOUR seat!!

14. I have the right to recline. If I ever feel guilty about it, I imagine that hagbag is behind me.

15. I’ve ask the person in front of me to just give me a heads up when they recline to avoid hitting my laptop. I preface by saying it’s perfectly fine. I just appreciate a warning. Never had anyone object or say anything other than “No Problem”.

16. Airlines sell the same space to both passengers and then get their panties in a knot when the two people fight. This was caused by the airlines reducing space and they should be held accountable but of course their lobbyists won’t let that happen.

17. Please stop using the word “Karen” in your examples. They are narcissists, with no need to be.defined by sex.

18. “Whatever you do, though, don’t go all vigilante on the seat recliner in front of you…”

    That’s excellent advice! I once had a very stupid woman punch me in the top of my head for reclining my FIRST CLASS SEAT on an American Airlines flight. And when we landed in DFW, she missed her connection, because the police at the airport decided she needed to spend some time with them.

19. These GREEDY disgusting Airlines… It is their fault we pay for these crappy sardine can airplanes and we have every right to recline. Love how they throw the BS on the passengers ( and then they fight ) look to the source

20. This article is 100% wrong. The person reclining their seat MUST ask permission and the perseon behind them can absolutely deny them. Reclining is invading another’s space you have no right to. If you decline your seat without permission you should be removed from the flight and prosecuted for assault.

21. That’s a big nope for reclining from me. Blame the airline industry for cramming us all into a sardine can. My legs are too tall to sit comfortably as it is and no way I’m giving up precious legroom.

22. Have you ever tried to recline airline seats nowadays?
    They only recline an inch backwards but mostly, they don’t recline at all!
    I don’t see any reason why this is a big deal except we’re all Angry people.

23. If the seat has the option to decline then you can decline it’s pretty simple. This should not even be a discussion for anyone as there isn’t anything to discuss it’s not open for discussion.

24. We must show consideration and etiquette. There are all types of persons Selfish And unmindful on a plane It’s your luck if you land behind a mannerless fool during a long distance flight. IATA CAN SOLVE THIS RECLINING PROBLEM BY PRESCRIBING Proper seat distances in Economy which will prevent cramming of passengers in Coach class

25. The writer leaves out the best alternative.

    Just recline your seat a couple of inches, not all the way! Unless it’s a redeye flight and everyone is trying to sleep, reclining your seat all the way really impinges on the space of the person behind you, and it’s rude to just suddenly jack your seat all the way back.
    In the regular, not the wee hours, passengers will find significantly inproved comfort by simply reclining their seat a couple of inches.
    Being mindful when flying that YOU are not the only passenger is the key.

26. I would absolutely have the flight crew involved, I have an absolute right to recline when we aren’t taking of or landing, or having meal.service. NOBODY has a right to decide otherwise especially on a 10 hour flight. What sort of arrogance does she have to believe she can tell me what I can and can’t do in the seat I paid good money for. Even with reclining it’s seriously.uncomfortable, it’s medically dangerous for me to NOT recline.

27. Omg
    Again grown adults crying about something with airline travel.
    Drinks ,food, service, flight attendants, gate agents, pilots using the bathroom, now seats.
    People get a grip, like I said plenty times before the glamorous day of airline travel is far gone.
    US carriers want to get you from point A to point B with no frills.
    Some more then others.
    If traveling on commercial airlines is so bad get yourself a private aircraft and travel the way you like !!!!
    Unbelievable!!!

28. Recline your seat. Sometimes it’s a matter of comfort for the person in that seat;ie, back issues and changing positions often is a must.

29. Fantastic to wake up this cold morning to read 50%+ of the posters here with tremendous sanity in violent agreement with the key tenant of selling the same space to 2 people and the drones in DC doing nothing about it.

    @frequent50 says it best: THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SPACE!!!!!!!! GARY!!! why aren’t you tearing in to the industry for this insane reality!

    Recline has been part of commercial air travel since the move from wood cafe chairs in trimotors.

    WHEN THERE WAS 36 OR MORE INCHES OF PITCH.

    But the bastards keep shoving in row after row of the same seats and letting the police sort out the torture-tube COMBAT that ensues from the PERSONAL WARFARE IN THE AIR.

    Recline is a violation of the Geneva Convention on humane treatment of prisoners.

    That’s my story, and i’m sticking to it.

30. There’s a reason I put my noise-cancelling earbuds in after 10k… not to hear anyone else gripe.

    I recline slowly, when I recline — but will stand my ground against persons who complain.

    If there’s an altercation, I ring my call button and ask the FA to reseat me or the person behind me.

    It’s awful that airlines have pitted customer against customer for extremely limited resources. Fly on KLM (if you can) for more leg room, as the Dutch tend to be taller than other nationalities, and since KLM is a Dutch airline, they used Dutch models for seat spacing/positioning.

    I flew (ugh) coach on KLM trans-Atlantic, and was able to sleep just fine without issue, thanks to greater seat distance! (If you’re Skyteam, buy your ticket through your primary airline, i.e. Delta [006] to get miles in your native programme!)

31. Karen? Who’s Karen? Never heard of her.

32. When we travel we book the extra comfort so reclining is not an issue, that person paid for their seat same as you, and reclining is everyones right,

    If you don’t want that then upgrade your seat for more room or go to 1st class.

33. Those reclining seats usually cost significantly more money. So you bet I’m going to recline, especially on long haul flights where I need the rest. I paid for it, I’m using it!

34. First, we’re not children. Please don’t write to us that way! It reads like a bunch of rules coming from a parent. If the airlines didn’t want one to recline, or anybody else for that matter, quit putting reclining seats in coach (economy). No, I’m not going to “politely” ask the person behind me for their permission to recline. If it is included in the ticket, it shouldn’t be a matter of getting one’s authorization. Also, why can’t the people simply expect that the seat in front you might recline an inch or two? Enough said.

35. This seems to be becoming an epidemic. Was on an Air France flight last week where for the second time in about two months I had an aggressive passenger behind me who did not want me to put my seat back and instead of initially asking politely he shook my seat violently several times while I blithely ignored him. He then tapped me on the head and ordered me to put my seat up, and I told him he should ask the flight attendant to move. The flight attendant did come over and he excitedly complained to her that I was putting my seat back. The flight attendant then asked me if I would like to move to a seat in the last row of the plane (near the toilet) and I politely declined and told her that if the guy in back of me had a problem than he should move. She asked him and he declined because he wanted to sit next to his wife. I then suggested that they swap seats so that she – and not he – would be sitting behind me. Again he declined. The Flight Attendant again asked me to move and I told her that I would follow any instructions she gave me but that I wouldn’t move voluntarily to a worse seat, that he was acting aggressively and unreasonably, and that it was wrong to expect me to give into his bullying and take a worse seat. After a few minutes she told me that she found me a seat that she knew I would be happy with, instructed me to take my bag and follow her and I was led up to a (middle) seat in Premium Economy. The FA was highly professional and conciliatory throughout, and I was not really disadvantaged by the move, but I felt a bit aggrieved that she moved me instead of just shutting him down as I think most US FAs would do – and did do the last time this happened to me while flying on AA. I suppose she had flagged him as a potential problem and was just trying to de-escalate the situation so that he didn’t become more unhinged, but I think there is a countervailing interest in not rewarding bad behavior.

36. You certainly have the right to recline your seat. You also have the right to be an asshole – aka seat recliners.

37. As a 6’3″ male, I hate the seats recline. I already don’t have enough leg room and reclined seats make it extremely uncomfortable. I had an East coast tiny woman in front of me on a Paris to Boston flight and she reclined the while trip. She was a horrible person.

38. Dearest Recliners,

    show me the CoC that has the words “right” and “recline” anywhere adjacent to each other…

    show me the CoC language that addresses the “recline” function for the 3 legacy oligarchs…

    we can’t post links, so allow me to help the research process of anyone so reclined…..

    first, familiarize yourself with the the “conditions of cAAriAAge” by searching for the following:

    american conditions-of-carriage

    you can click through every link and ctrl-f search every page and the word ‘recline’ is nowhere to be found

    next, add quotation marks to maximize the accuracy of your search, and add the word recline:

    “conditions of carriage” “recline” “american”

    please report back with any findings documenting any mention whatsoever of the word ‘recline’ much less anything related to ‘rights’ associated with the word ‘recline’

    now, folks, let’s continue this malign fiesta….

    at least delta doesn’t hide behind nested looped html links and straight up publishes a full pdf which you can find by searching for this:

    dl-dgr-master-22jun23

    you’ll get the link to the .pdf, all 25 pages of it

    again, ctrl-f reveals the presence of the word “recline” as follows:

    zip
    zilch
    nada

    now, let’s complete this exercise with unicon

    they do not deign to publish the legal document in .pdf form but do put up the full html unlike american’s cowardly behavior

    you can find united’s CoC by searching for:

    “united” “about-contract-of-carriage”

    once again, ctrl-f reveals that the final score for the 3 oligarchs of deregulation is best spoken with the voice of Dean Wormer, to wit:

    Zero.
    Point.
    Zero.

    In summary, with respect to the recline function, you have no ‘rights’. Pound sand, recliners. It’s been a pleasure doing business with you this morning. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Please proceed directly to my hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place.

    Thank you for your time.

    Have a nice day.

39. Frequentflyerfor50years and Nonya, cry me a river. Not the same as speeding 50years, a much more accurate way to compare reclining an airline seat and driving a car would be to say that complaining about someone reclining their seat is like complaining that there are other cars on the road when your stuck in traffic. They have the right to recline the same as that car has a right to use that public road, even if it inconveniences you.

40. dear krod.

    no. they don’t.

    show your work.

    you can’t.

    show me the US Code that addresses the right to recline on part 121 carriers.

    show me the language in a contract of carriage that describes these mystical ‘rights’

41. Sorry, but in today’s economy cabins, reclining is not acceptable. Do not blame the passenger who wants to recline or those who do not want people in front to recline. Blame the airlines for giving us less and less freaking room. This was not an issue 30 years ago.

42. Seats should not recline. Airlines should make them not to recline

43. I must be flying the wrong planes. I can’t remember the last time I was on a plane with seats the recline more than about 1.5″.

    FWIW, I used to be firmly in the “it’s just plain rude to recline your seat on any flight shorter than 2 hours” camp (I’m Southern– we still believe in common courtesy). But since recline is now so imperceptible I don’t think it matters much.

44. I’m 6’5″ 300lbs. Most economy seats can’t recline as my legs are wedged in the seat in front of me. I can’t afford 1st class seats. Airlines should give me exit isle seats at no additional costs or the passenger in front of me moved to another seat.

45. Hey Haggard,

    Take your pompous, self-entitled attitude and shove deep inside your (probably large) glass.

    Buy a first class ticket if you can’t travel with us “poors”, you ***ing ****.

    GIT!

46. Dear Hagbard,

    Show ne the law in Part 121 that prohibits reclining.

    What a jerk.

47. Dear @hagbard celine, et. al of those who don’t believe pax in commercial scheduled aircraft have a right to decline.

    Show me the CoC that has the words “prohibit or deny” and “recline” anywhere adjacent to each other. Cant’ do it? Of course you can’t, because it’s not there.

    Show me where it says in the CoC that a passenger’s space goes from the back of the seat in front of you when the seat is in the full upright position, meaning when you recline you’re depriving the passenger behind you their defined space. Can’t do it? Of course you can’t, because it’s not there.

    Moreover, it’s an irrational assumption that pax aren’t permitted to recline considering that the airline has installed a recline button for the pax to use. It’s also irrational that a pax has to ask for permission from the pax behind them to recline, since the recline button for the seat is beside the pax in the seat, not in the seat behind them.

    Here’s the thing, the recline, even in domestic first class isn’t much of a decline, but more than that, for those of us who have serious back problems and who can’t afford more expensive tickets the recline, any recline, even the tiny recline in economy seats on US airlines is a godsend as generally the seats are positioned in the upright position to literally throw you forward which is beyond painful.

    So, you can complain, but I’m reclining because I’m not about to exit the plane bent over in a painful pretzel shape like you want me to do.

48. I would like to know if the Karen woman reclined her seat.

49. @Rpger Shady You aren’t entitled to anything you don’t pay for. Being large and tall isn’t a disability, and you have no right to any accommodation. If you can’t afford a seat that fits you, you shouldn’t fly.

50. Pretty clear here the anti-recline people have lost the argument. BTW, it is not the airlines’ fault leg room is so short. If we refused to buy it, they’d fix it. Airlines would love to have 15 percent less seats on a plane if we’d pay them 18 percent more.

51. In my days of flying coach, I only had one request not to recline. It was on a trans-Atlantic flight. I suggested that if she could convince the person in front of me not to recline, I’d do it. It shut her up.

52. Why are you picking on people named “Karen”? That’s pretty rude.

53. I am going to take full advantage of the two inches the miserable airlines give us and if the idiot behind me complains they wont like my response

54. i’m getting bored continuing to own the triggered but your cognitive dissonance is amusing

    from the wiki

    please concentrate on the language regarding the burden of proof, and who owns it:

    +++

    A negative claim is a colloquialism for an affirmative claim that asserts the non-existence or exclusion of something.[13] Proofs of negative claims are common in mathematics. Such claims include Euclid’s theorem that there is no largest prime number, and Arrow’s impossibility theorem. There can be multiple claims within a debate, nevertheless, whoever makes a claim usually carries the burden of proof regardless of positive or negative content in the claim.[14] [15]

    A negative claim may or may not exist as a counterpoint to a previous claim. A proof of impossibility or an evidence of absence argument are typical methods to fulfill the burden of proof for a negative claim.[13][16]

    Philosopher Steven Hales argues that typically one can logically be as confident with the negation of an affirmation. Hales says that if one’s standards of certainty leads them to say “there is never ‘proof’ of non-existence”, then they must also say that “there is never ‘proof’ of existence either”. Hales argues that there are many cases where we may be able to prove something does not exist with as much certainty as proving something does exist.[13]: 109–112  A similar position is taken by philosopher Stephen Law who highlights that rather than focusing on the existence of “proof”, a better question would be whether there is any reasonable doubt for existence or non-existence.[17]

55. If you are told not to recline by the passenger behind you, go tell the stewardess. They will make sure the passenger won’t be bothering you again. So simple to solve.

56. I will recline whenever I want to. Simple.

57. Please remember that most seats on US airlines allow less then 1/2 inch recline. And that sometimes passengers reclining have back issues and are in pain.

58. This happened to me yesterday I was flying from Porto Seguro to Rio De Janeiro. We have been Airborne for about 5 minutes and I reclined my seat and the man behind me screamed at me excuse me but you’re not allowed to recline your seat while the seatbelt sign is on. My response to him was don’t worry about it you’re not going to be able to exit at this point anyway. If you are we’re all going down together and he slammed my seat with the full force of his body back into its position. I reclined it back to where I was and continued my flight and uninterrupted by the goon behind me.

59. Sounds like aggravated battery to me. I would have had law enforcement involved.

60. Its unbelievable how immature adults have become.whining, hollering, throwing tantrums, being aggressive, contributing to flight delays. If you want top tier comfort, fly first class! passengers have the right to recline in a seat THEY PAID FOR. What people need to stop doing is telling people how to sit in the seat they purchased with their own money. And please for the love of God, stop sitting in other passengers assigned seats. I’m 17 years old and it’s so irritating and embarrassing to see full blown, overgrown adults act this way, especially in public, it’s humiliating to yourselves. GROW UP AND BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

61. You get what you pay for. Less expensive tickets buy you a seat, not comfort. On long hauls, if I can’t get a seat with sufficient leg room, I don’t fly.

62. Stop being selfish twats and learn to sleep upright or buy a lieflat in business.

63. Suggest.she buy a ticket in first class, Otherwise,Tell Karen, politely and in the most loving way, that she doesn’t control the world as you ring the attendant request.

64. Airplane seats should not recline. Full stop. There isn’t enough space allotted to permit anyone to voluntarily take up more, and the risk to your electronics is real. It SHOULDN’T be that there’s so little space on airplanes that leaning back half an inch sends the person behind you into a blind rage, but that’s where we are. I have never reclined an airline seat unless the person in front of me reclines so far back that I’m forced to, and I never cease to be amazed that anyone can be so selfish as to believe that it’s an acceptable behavior.

65. If seats didn’t recline we’d all be so much better off.

66. If you don’t want the person in front of you to recline on a long haul flight then pay for an upgraded seat or 1ST class.

67. Those duck lips.

68. What’s wrong with your lips? They look like duck lips.

69. Wow lots of misconceptions here.

    Reclining is NOT a right.

    As the saying goes, your right to swing your arms around however you want ends at my nose.

    If you recline into soneone elses personal space, then you are violating their rights, and they are justified in defending their rights.

    Bottom line, do not recline… under any circumstances, regardless of whatever excuse you have made up to make you feel better about it.

70. Gary,

    You may want to do a little more research on this. There are now more than one court decisions that clearly disagree that it is a ‘right’ to recline. In fact, legally it is the other way around … You may only recline with the permission of the person seated behind you. If you recline without their permission, then you are stealing their space, and are legally liable for civil damages. If you recline and the seat OR TRAY touches the person behind you, that is legally assault, and you could go to jail. That’s the actual law, and IMHO you are making the situation worse by spreading misinformation.

    Shoving the seat is of course not an acceptable response, but consider that from their point of view you just shoved the tray into their belly or seat into their knees. Tit for tat doesn’t make anything right, but from a legal perspective, the person reclining their seat initiated the incident, which is possibly assault, and the person behind them has every right to defend themselves.

71. Aircraft manufacturers need to build airlocks into their aircrafts so that cabin pressure may be maintained while rejecting such unruly passengers… Without a parachute of course. (There is precedent for this when Captains of ships made crew members walk the plank… without a life vest of course, for various infractions.

    I believe the threat of such judge, jury and execution treatment by cabin crew would put an end to a lot of the chaos we see on commercial flights today.

    There does need to be a way to prevent injury to people and structures on the ground when the elections occur.

72. Simple solution – make airline seats like “wall hugger recliners” -so when you recline you lose leg room – but the person behind loses nothing. That way it’s your choice how you suffer

73. An adult should be able to have a brief discussion, using tact and diplomacy, with the other passenger to resolve the situation swiftly and amicably.

    If that doesn’t work (because one of the two of you have the social abilities of a child) contact the stewardess. They may not enjoy it but, passenger conflict resolution is part of their job. It may result in someone having to move but, 99.9% of the time, they’ll find a way to fix it.

    If this is the kind of issue you have to ask others for help on, consider drinking the stuff in the bottles under the kitchen sink. You’re never gonna make it. May as well end it all now.

74. @Matthew King – please cite the case law that reclining is ‘stealing another passenger’s space’ …

75. GARY, IF YOU RECLINE IN FRONT OF ME. I HAVE MANY WAYS TO MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE TO. I AM 6 FOOT 3 , 260 POUNDS FLOWN.OVER 300 TIMES HAVE YET TO RECLINE. I HAVE PUT THE SEAT BACK TO SEE WHY ANYONE WOULD WANT TO SCREW THE GUY BEHIMD YOU. MAKE VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE. WHEN THE GUY IN FRONT OF ME WANTS RECLINE I PAY THE GUY IN FRONT OF HIM 20 DOLLARS TO RECLINE HIS SEAT. THEY DON’T LIKE IT. DON’T BE A ASS!

76. @Gary – My suggestion was that you should do a little more research, not that I was volunteering to do it for you. (Hints though … the lawyer who won her lawsuit against someone reclining into her is from Oregon.)

    But lets consider your assertion of ‘rights’. Firstly, airline policy cannot create or take away ‘rights’. Secondly, to basic common sense, the ‘recliner’ is obviously invading the space of the person behind them, and is clearly the aggressor. Consider the attitude displayed by the posters threatening violence against the person behind them if they do not submit. The ‘recliner’ is both the aggressor, and who is initiating the conflict.

    Of course shoving back is its own problem. Thats inappropriate, immature, and also likely illegal. Just like if someone standing in line to board steps too close to you, or in general anywhere someone gets too close, you should just ask them nicely to respect your personal space. You do have a legal right to that space, and to not be touched (including by the chair or tray) without your permission.

    To my way of thinking, de-escalation needs to be the objective in the overcrowded pressure cookers of commercial air travel. Insisting that you have the ‘right’ to physically invade someone else’s space and or touching them in a way they are clearly objecting to, is at best not de-escalating an already tense and stressful situation, and at worst is assault.

    My point to you Gary is that you are promoting the idea that its ok to insist on your perceived rights. That you are justified in literally pushing that ‘right’ into someone else’s face and daring them to defend themselves.

    Is that who you want to be?

77. Tell the airlines to give us back our space!!!

78. I’m saying @Matthew King that if you want to assert a claim that there’s a binding legal precedent that reclining one’s seat steals the space that belongs to someone else and that this is actionable, back up your claim with a citation.

79. I am 6’5″ and have had pax in front of me complain to FAs because I wasn’t allowing them to recline their seats. It was not voluntary on my part; I had no other place to put my knees than in the back of the seat once they reclined it. And, yes, I do whatever I can to avoid this situation by buying first/business class tickets or flying on airlines where I have access to exit row or extra legroom seats. However, it is unavoidable sometimes.

    The recline function serves no real purpose on most flights, so it should be eliminated. Not only would it take away once source of potential conflict on a flight (which impacts pax and FAs), but it would also reduce the cost of maintaining the seats because of the lack of a recline mechanism.

    I would never behave like the pax in the article, but I have pushed back gently when someone reclines abruptly and forcefully without warning while I am using my laptop. It’s a reflex reaction more than anything else from occasions when my open laptop has almost gotten smashed by someone. These mishaps could be minimized or even eliminated if the recline mechanism only allowed the recline to be gradual. It might be expensive for the airlines, but it wouldn’t be necessary if people were self-aware enough to realize that their reclining is not only impacting their comfort but also that of the person behind them.

    Reclining your seat might be a right, but, like all other rights, it needs to be used responsibly.

80. Matthew King, give me citation for your dubious assertion. Are you a practicing attorney or did you get this information from an internet blog. And I doubt the real lawyers for the airlines would allow passengers to recline if the approval of the person behind you was required
    So give me the case citation

81. The discussions here show so much how civility has been lost in today’s society. Me, me, me. Regardless of age, they seem to act like babies. Me, me, me.

82. I despise reclining chairs and dread the moment I’m going to have my space invaded from in front. I’ve had people refuse to stop reclining even at mealtime.
    I see no reason for these chairs to exist. Anyone who is fatigued enough can sleep in an upright chair. Put in comfortable non reclinable chairs get us to where we’re going and we can sleep there.

83. Can we stop the institutionalized use of Karen pejorative? It’s racist to Thai people (there really is an ethnic group called Karen). Not to mention terrible that any person should wake up one day to see that the internet in its infinite wisdom has associated their name with the worst behavior humanity has to offer. Replace your insensitive title.

84. Hey Gary,

    I am not trying to pick a fight, though you seem intent on it.

    Yes, I have personally won a lawsuit, as have others, against ‘recliners’. In my case, it was settled out of court, so there is no ‘citation’. A very quick search will show you plenty of cases, all of which ruled against the ‘recliner’.

    Bottom line, it has nothing to do with FAA regulations, nor airline regulations. They do not make the law. The ‘law’ of common sense does apply here. If you shove your body, or your chair,… or your car… into someone else’s personal space, then you are the aggressor, and they do have the right to defend themselves. Of course, that defense does need to be appropriate, and shoving back is not appropriate.

    It is clear that you are on the side of wanting to push the idea that it is ok to force yourself on another person, and then claim it is your ‘right’ because the chair mechanism doesnt prevent you from doing so. My question again is that who you want to be?

85. Just for the sake of clarity, what has worked to legally defend one’s self against someone reclining their seat is:

    1) Politely ask them to stop, because they are encroaching on your personal space, and/or touching you in a way that makes you uncomfortable.

    2) If they do not desist, then ask the flight attendant to ask them to stop encroaching on your personal space and stop touching you.

    3) If that does not resolve the issue, then ask the flight attendant to please escalate the issue to the PIC, because you are being assaulted.

    If none of that works, then the civilized thing to do is to defend yourself with legal action, and involve law enforcement. Getting angry and confrontational will not help.

86. @Matthew King – no fight, just looking for clarity. You say you’ve settled out of court in a lawsuit, there’s no legal precedent you know of establishing a right not to have the person in front of you recline. That’s simply what I was looking for. If you’ve gotten compensation more power to you! That’s just a different claim than you were making at the outset and I was seeing clarity and specificity. Thanks!

    Whom did you sue, what happened that prompted the suit, and how much compensation did you receive?

87. @Gary

    As usual with settlements, I agreed not to reveal specifics. What I can say is that it was a substantial settlement, and opposing counsel did not disagree with our claim that reclining the seat into my space was a violation of my rights. Thats worth repeating… the lawyer on the other side did not dispute that reclining is a violation of the rights of the person behind you. There are a number of cases out there establishing this legal precedent. Its not limited or changed by being on an airplane.

    Really though, it is about choosing to be nice, rather than insisting on your perceived ‘rights’. For example, it is the usual thing that the airline victim stuck in the middle seat gets both arm rests. Thats a good idea, but it is not a ‘right’. My starting point was that your statement that it someone has the ‘right’ to recline sets a bad tone that tends to lead to confrontation, as well as being legally inaccurate.

    As the old saying goes, “Your right to swing your arm around how you want to, ends at my nose.” When you do something that encroaches someone else’s space, or touches them, in a way that makes them uncomfortable… then you are in the wrong and should stop.

88. If it is illegal to recline you seat then why do they have them I think the airline just did not want the bad publicity it can not be law if it was then all the airlines would have taken them off there plans

89. By reclining your seat you are invaded the space of the person sitting behind. It is unnecessary and rude. Space is so limited that the airlines should solve the problem by giving an electric shock to the recliner.

90. I hope I never encounter any of you on a plane. What a bunch of self centered disgusting human beings. Sueing someone for reclining their seat. What an asshole! Get over yourselves.

91. If its illegal to drive my car through your front door into your house, why do cars have gas pedals?

    Note, I did not sue the airline. It is not their responsibility. I sued, and won a large settlement, from the person that reclined their seat into my space.

    Just stop and think about your basic argument that you have the ‘right’ to shove yourself into someone else’s space, and the ‘right’ to touch them, without their permission. The airline cannot give you that ‘right’.

    As others in this thread have mentioned, stop thinking about ‘me me me me me’ and what you think is your ‘right’. Instead how about thinking about what you can do to make the experience more pleasant, or at least less unpleasant, for everyone involved.

92. What about overweight people who take up your leg room or just men in general who frequently do this? Can I sue then since their thigh is touching my thigh because their legs are splayed open?

93. @gene

    Just so I have this straight…

    Someone reclines their seat into me in a very uncomfortable way. I ask them very politely to stop. Then the flight attendant asks them nicely to stop. They go on a rant about how its their ‘right’ to recline. “I dont care who it hurts. Its my right to recline!” were their actual words.

    I didnt shove their seat. I didnt raise my voice. I just asked nicely for them to stop hurting me.

    But according to you, I”m the asshole?

94. Matthew, Matthew, Matthew,
    After reading your conversations,
    I’m absolutely shocked that you sued over 1-2 inches of space! !!!!!!!
    You of course are absolutely free to choose for yourself what works for you, but it seems pretty petty to me.
    I’m judging. Perhaps you are a large man and those 1-2 inches truly imposed on your frame and caused you terrible, painful discomfort.
    If so. My apologies. Civility lost over 2 inches. So sad. I’m sure glad it wasn’t something truly offensive like using a racial slur or degrading your partner by belittling them in public.
    Thank you for providing your picture on your profile. If I ever see you on a plane or walking in a crowded hallway where our shoulders might accidentally bump, I would not like to be under the threat of lawsuit for assaulting you.
    And I’m deleting this story from my internet service as soon as I send this, not because I’m afraid of your response, I just have no desire to read any more if your self importance propaganda.

95. I can see both sides. Already cramped seats become more intolerable when reclining happens. I tolerate it since I know people have the right to do so, but as a practice I never recline myself because I don’t like to cramp others.

96. Why can’t we have the understanding that booking a seat on the port side of the plane seats you amongst people who are fine with reclining. If you book a seat on the starboard side, you endeavour to stay upright and expect the same of the person infront.

97. I’m not sure if reclining is a right, but I’m 100% sure @matthew king is full of sh*t.
    >But according to you, I”m the asshole?
    Yes. Yes you are.

98. People here are entitled. Not everyone can afford a business class upgrade and still want to be comfortable. I had no issues with a man in front of me reclining while our plane was stuck on the tarmac for 2 hours, and said nothing, but my knees were trapped and I was extremely uncomfortable. He started screaming at me because he could feel my knees and refused to move his seat upright because he told me he had “the right to be comfortable”. Apparently I don’t have the same right? For taller people it is UNAVOIDABLE. Note that I never said anything until he yelled at me, and when I politely asked him to move his seat upright to resolve HIS issue he said no.

    Seats should just not recline, full stop.

99. How is this even a debate? Who are these “you can’t recline your seat” people? Are you all under the age of 35? I’m 55 and have flown my whole life and this has never been an issue except in the last 5 years or so. I think if you’re on here whining about the person in front of you having the right to try and become slightly more comfortable, then you need to post your age because you’re likely part of the entitled generation.

    Sincerely – old curmudgeon

100. Im 54, ex military, and not part of the new generation…

     Id like to point out that in your own words you refer to the ‘right to try and become slightly more comfortable’ which is itself literally entitled. Again, there is no ‘right’ to recline. There is no ‘right to try and become slightly more comfortable’. There may be reasonable expectations, but they are not ‘rights’.

     The problem, which I have stated from the beginning of this thread, is pushing the opinion that you are entitled to the ‘right’ to recline. As soon as someone thinks its a ‘right’ to recline, then the problems start. Thats entitlement. “I have the right to recline… REGARDLESS OF WHO IT HURTS”

     There is a right to personal space. There is a right to not be touched without your permission. Those things are actual, legal, rights. Comfort is not a right.

101. @Mathew King, it is good to know that there is relief available against buffoons. Seats are upright while loading passengers and during takeoff. When someone jams their seat into the space that a tall person’s knees occupy, that is assault or battery. Negotiating with compromising should end up with something reasonable for both parties with neither getting 100%. I usually find that the recliner reclining only a few inches is tolerable in an airplane with an inadequate pitch (my definition is under about 31 inches). I usually find seatbacks on airplanes recline about 4 inches at maximum but some recline further. I can use the width of my hand as a rough measuring tool. Who ended up paying the bill in your case? The offender or some sort of insurance or ???

102. Seat reclines? I go half way to be polite. I usually pay extra to be in a seat that reclines and has extra space because I’m a larger person. Usually self absorbed people tend not to trouble me. I’ve seen it happen to others and I usually just turn and give the offender a snarl and then the person being hassled thanks me.

103. @ethereal1, racist people resist any attempts to keep them from using racist pejoratives such as Karen. The Karen people natively live in both Thailand and Myanmar. They are persecuted in Myanmar by a genocidal government.

104. @jns they paid personly and substantially.
     Yes, it is good to know when some larger than average person snarls at you attempting to bully you into submission that you can indeed force them to pay a LOT extra…