JetBlue is struggling financially. The government shut down their two main plays to grow – partnering with American Airlines, and buying Spirit – though they were overpaying for Spirit and the strategic rationale for the acquisition simply no longer made sense without the Airlines Airlines partnership (which provided an opportunity to grow in New York and Boston, for which they needed planes and pilots).
They have Carl Icahn breathing down their neck. Their new CEO needs a turnaround plan. So far they’re raising fees. They clearly need to cut money-losing flying, but that’s not going to be enough.
- Their West Coast operation performs poorly
- Their transatlantic flying has been weak
- Their brand has eroded, as a result of on-time performance at the bottom of the industry and an erosion of their inflight product over the past 15 years, reducing the differentiation between them and competitors (although still offering a bit more legroom, seat back TVs, and free Wifi).
Aviation watchdog JonNYC says that the network is going to see changes – cuts to unprofitable flying – and we’re days away from a reveal that scales back Los Angeles. He first teased that as the plan last month:
B6: rumor,
"JetBlue will be making a network announcement in the next week or so
It’ll be cuts to the network that they are still flying in anticipation of the spirit merger
But since that’s off the table now they won’t be hanging onto them any longer"— JonNYC (@xJonNYC) February 13, 2024
“Are you hearing about any specific markets or regions for B6? I’m hearing they’re gonna pull back on the west coast. Going from LGB to LAX has been a disaster”
— JonNYC (@xJonNYC) February 23, 2024
Now he reports that it is happening:
definitely feels like Jetblue's west coast operations will take a hit when the cuts are announced this week.
— JonNYC (@xJonNYC) March 18, 2024
It makes sense for JetBlue to fly to Los Angeles from New York, Boston and perhaps Fort Lauderdale. But their LAX operation has been bleeding beyond that. Their other flying includes Los Angeles to:
- Las Vegas
- San Francisco
- Salt Lake City
- Miami
- Orlando
- Reno
- Los Cabos
- Liberia, Costa Rica
- Buffalo
- West Palm Beach
- Nassau
JetBlue needs to build back Boston. They’ve allowed Delta to grow as they focused on New York during the time of their American Airlines partnership. They should clearly re-engage American Airlines on a partnership, pull back from the West Coast, and focus on the Northeast – a return to their roots.
The West Coast has long been a potential market for JetBlue. They bid against Alaska for Virgin America and considered trying to buy Alaska itself. On their own they lack scale, and routes are pretty picked over.
The big question is how much JetBlue will pull down Los Angeles, and whether it’s enough for someone else to get some of their gates at the airport?
I know B6 has tried to buy AS in the past, but B6 is horribly mismanaged. Rather than trying to buy HA, Alaska should wait out the last days of the Biden admin (and Lena Khan) and try to buy JetBlue once after the likely (if the polls mean anything) Trump victory in a few months.
Of course, they’re never going to do that because of:
– The breakup fee from cancelling a potential HA/AS deal
– Their religious-level zeal for only flying Boeing
– Their new best friend, American Airlines
– Potential transpac travel opportunities unlocked with HA’s 787s.
A more likely scenario is as follows:
Alaska becomes something like WestJet, with a competitive business product on transoceanic routes. I would expect that AS would mainly focus on TPAC travel rather than the TATL that WS is doing. Maybe they’ll even join the JV with JL and AA.
What about JetBlue? I doubt they’ll exist in ten years. Rather, I expect AA to try to pick them up during the next Republican administration. Lots of upside for AA.
A left-field opportunity would be a UA acquisition of B6. UA does very well on its international travel, but it’s less useful domestically for many travelers (in part because of its inconvenient hubs on the east coast, IAD and EWR). UA is looking for a way to get out of its 737Max order right now, and has clearly realized it made the wrong fleet decision.r
JetBlue should drop a lot of intra-West Coast routes and instead scale up in Salt Lake City and compete against Delta in the Great Lakes and Upper Midwest by going after Minneapolis and Detroit, where Delta dominates. They need to elevate their domestic product by offering a true domestic first on routes without Mint. Go all-in on Florida, Texas and the other Sun Belt destinations, which are booming.
LAX is far too competitive and Jetblue isn’t anywhere near the size they need to be to justify a more strategic presence here (like Delta).
As per DoT filings they planned to grow LAX and fly to Hawaii had the merger occurred, so say bye bye to those plans.
Good move IMO but they should plug the gap by codesharing with American and Alaska.
jetBlue has certainly Lost their Way in terms of Who they are as an Airline and where they want to fly. Attempted Merger with SPIRIT was foolish from its inception….two vastly different business models that resembled mixing oil and water. The Northeast Alliance with AA seemed like it had potential but then somewhere along the way they mucked it up. jetBlue operating TransAtlantic flights will face serious headwinds because without their ‘inclusion’ into one of the Alliances there is only so much they can do before one, two or all three of the Alliances go nuclear and crush their business plan by deploying bigger aircraft to make JB a non factor. jetBlue has some serious issues as a stand alone carrier and cute inflight snacks and seatback videos will not prove to be what keeps them chugging along. jetBlue’s biggest concern is they are too big to be acquired by one of the Big Three, operationally a misfit with Southwest and Alaska has no interest in them. jetBlue and FRONTIER would be interesting with a Denver operation but would face DOJ objections just like it faced with SPIRIT and would be a lot of work to change in hindsight. Their biggest hurdle is to figure out Who the hell they are as an airline.
Gary..why not just wait for actual news…whatever it is.
Did you get fired from B6? Were you a pilot? FA..management? What is your deal with JetBlue?
@Gary..Perhaps FLL… do you have load factors? Jetblue flies 4X daily… Mint is almost always sold out and load factors seem very high. The word perhaps in front of FLL shows you are a clueless man who finds posts on twitter and re-posts them on this site with whatever trash falls into your brain.
B6’s biggest problem at the moment is that posterior clown Icahn. You’d think he’d have learned his lesson with TWA.
I appreciate hearing the rumour . I live in LA and have a ton of points,
Do you think LAX—JFk will remain?
With all due respect, Mr. Leff, you’ve been the CEO of how many airlines? I bow to your knowledge of credit cards, points, etc. but your qualifications to run an airline don’t seem to be quite as apparent.
Cut LAX to just JFK and BOS (and possibly EWR and FLL). Then try to get a AS/AA like deal with American. The judge seemed to indicate that type of arrangement would pass muster. It’s really their only hope.
Tim Dunn complains about Gary’s coverage of Delta. DesertGhost asks why Gary wants AA to be liquidated. And SMR complains about Gary’s coverage of JetBlue. Seems like Gary is against ALL airlines!
Thanks for the article. I actually liked it, The trolls are out in force.
@Tim he’s the worst reporter on here. Arrogant garbage that doesn’t care about how his speculation posts could affect those (whether it’s news or not) that may be based in the west coast. No one should have to deal with CNN/FOX style garbage on a points and miles site.
Their power play that resulted in them leaving LGB was a monumentally arrogant and stupid decision. They basically had their own hub airport and gave it up because of their hissy fit about an international terminal, and then never ended up expanding anything (let alone international flights) at Ontario like they promised. LAX is a garbage airport and they lost anyone that cared to fly with them because the whole reason of flying out of a place like LGB is the convenience of not going to LAX.
I hate them for their idiocy because all my points are basically worthless since they no longer fly anywhere interesting out of the region and LAX is a dumpster fire that’s not worth using
Jetblue has a daily flight from Los Angeles to Hartford, Connecticut during the summer months. I’m sure those flights are packed to the gills (LOL).
I wish they would reconsider merging with Spirit. We need help
As a former pilot there, it’s obvious the company is in trouble! They are in the red with their debt and needed that merger with Spirit to go through…..which it didn’t. Maybe they will try again when a new administration is in office later this year?
SWA should acquire B6 to diversify its fleet and expand in the northeast and to Europe. Also SWA should adopt assigned seating and polish up
service.
I’ve always wondered why JetBlue didn’t try to build up more in DC. The LCCs seem to find it pretty lucrative out of DCA and BWI, and a lot of people would prefer JetBlue. And IAD has the A/B terminal empty half the day. Not to mention that it would be handy to cultivate the Congress people and bureaucrats. Make them all elites for free like the other airlines do!
It is the beginning of the end of JetBlue. The West Coast operation never really made much sense, specifically the shift from LGB to LAX, where, at LAX, there is so much competition and plenty of overlap with many of B6’s markets there. B6 is an East Coast carrier and brand recognition on the West Coast likely never took off. The TATL network is also said to be performing very poorly. It made money in peak summer but year-round, the planes are too premium heavy and there is so much competition on all the markets B6 flies to. Wouldn’t surprise if they company ends up being broken up, sold off, where its parts are worth more than the whole, particularly given pilot and aircraft shortages. The winners ought to be AA, UA, and possibly WN.
@Arthur JetBlue was forced to give up routes when they moved to DCA. I guess it’s all tightly controlled. It was painful for me because LGBIAD was the only direct flight out of SoCal to DC at the time not out of LAX
@Atiya I don’t even think Breeze fills their A220s on that flight
JetBlue should drop California completely. It’s not worth the regulatory headaches. Let JetBlue be the East Coast powerhouse with flights to the Caribbean, Central America, and select cities like Salt Lake and Las Vegas.
Some say airlines never succeed by cutting routes and getting smaller. I disagree because airlines usually don’t succeed no matter what they do. Big Airlines have not been long term profitable business for which shareholders benefit over the long run. There are a few European low cost carriers who do ok, though.
JetBlue should cut 20% of their routes. Then they’ll have extra pilots, flight attendants, ground personnel, and extra planes to deal with their operational issues and they can get rid of some.
B6 has tried to chase a million side hustles besides their core operation, none of the side hustles have worked, and their core operation is in shambles. It doesn’t take a watchdog to figure out that the fluff will get culled.
Joanna came in to clean house and run an airline instead of chasing dreams; she clearly was not allowed to do that under Robin. Icahn’s presence just accelerates what she was going to do.
B6 has no name recognition on the west coast. They tried to acquire Virgin America, not Alaska, and lost to Alaska. Their point to point routes within the west don’t work against much larger competitors.
DL is the largest airline at LAX because AA wholesale walked away from large parts of its intra-west network and entered a codeshare with AS. AA lost many corporate contracts including many of the major Hollywood studio contracts.
It makes no sense for B6 to trade competing against multiple airlines at LAX to competing with one – DL – at SLC given that DL has cleaned B6′ clock in the NE.
the best thing B6 can do is stop flying money-losing flights, use the “spare” aircraft time to build backup capacity into the schedule so they can run their core operation better, and then be able to compete.
They can try to do a non-JV deal w/ AA but cannot swap slots in large measure w/o the DOJ requiring some be divested to other low cost/ULCCs.
B6 hasn’t succeeded at flooding BOS w/ capacity to try to keep DL out; they won’t succeed trying to regain share. They made a strategic mistake in chasing a million dragons.
Their best future is to find airports where there is growth potential which legacy carriers don’t care about and to run their core operation better.
I have flown JetBlue a bit more since they offered status matches to Delta elites, but still use Delta as my primary carrier. A few thoughts
1) JetBlue Mint on longer transcons appear to be successful – someone correct me if I am wrong. Isn’t a lot of their “West Coast” exposure just Mint flights from LAX, SAN, SFO, etc to JFK and BOS? I would also imagine FLL and maybe even MIA would be profitable Mint routes from LAX given the premium travel between the two markets
2) On the other hand, outside of Florida, JetBlue really lacks frequency on a lot of shorter routes. I have found that I am better off with Delta if I need a flight with a specific departure time. Redeploying some of the shorter West Coast hops back to the East, where they can increase frequency, may make sense
@Tim Dunn
AA did not lose Hollywood contracts left and right.
They have longstanding, historically deep ties to the entertainment industry and that cannot be broken.
If you know anyone in the industry, the vast, vast majority of people opt to fly for American Airlines whenever possible. Yes some do opt for JetBlue or Delta (the latter probably due to Atlanta) but that’s rare.
Alaska took over many of the LAX routes AA cut, and no one is losing big corporate contracts by cutting a frequency to Denver.
AA is simply no longer the largest contractor for Hollywood studios anymore.
You want to live in a world which no longer exists.
AA is now chasing small cities with regional jets.
Delta is the largest airline at LAX and carries the most people. Your perception of who flies what doesn’t matter and isn’t supported by data.
JB used to be an excellent east coast airline.
Robin with his Wall Street first approach ruined it possibly beyond repair.
@ Tim Dunn,
“DL is the largest airline at LAX because AA wholesale walked away from large parts of its intra-west network and entered a codeshare with AS. AA lost many corporate contracts including many of the major Hollywood studio contracts.”
Some good points regarding B6 at LAX, but the above is simply incorrect and conveniently forgets the billions DL is sinking into making its LAX operation and customer experience stronger. No doubt DL is investing for the long haul but at what cost?
You’re not correct in saying AA “walked away” from its intra-West network. It really didn’t have that large of one to begin with and much of what it ceded, was picked up via code share through AS. The entertainment industry remains a huge customer to AA, partly due to First Class on some transcons (though that is going away, we know), but also deep roots and ties. DL has made inroads on the ATL stuff, which makes sense, but you’re making it sound like DL pushed AA off the map in LA, and that’s simply not true. No one really owns LAX. It is a fragmented market, with ebbs and flows, and AA is also upgrading its terminal facility, which has temporarily reduced gate availability. DL is strongest at bringing people to LAX, but not necessarily flying them from LAX in terms of point of sale flows. AA has largely been a combination of the two, with a slight skew toward LAX point of sale.
DL gained the upper hand in the Northeast because it built a larger network than B6, runs it better (B6 is an operational mess) and its FF base and credit card portfolio far outstrips B6.
Good for them
none of what you said, ghost, changes that Delta is the largest airline at LAX, AA walked away from dozens of routes, signed a codeshare agreement with AS which is not a JV – because US carriers cannot have JVs with other domestic airlines, and DL now carries the majority of Hollywood contracts – and LAX-AKL started on DL precisely for that reason – on top of DL’s position in LAX-ATL, a major Hollywood route.
AA has lost billions in corporate revenue across its system. Regardless of whether some accept that has impacted its Hollywood contracts or not, AA is no longer the largest airline for Hollywood studios. Just as is true w/ most corporate contracts, each of the big 3 end up w/ some of the business. DL just happens to now have the most, just as is true nationwide for all corporations.
B6 has never succeeded at gaining the corporate business which the big 3 feed on and doesn’t win on price – so it is stuck in between w/ poor finances
JetBlue flies a seasonal redeye between JFK and PSP (Palm Springs CA). I would love to utilize that for a nice long weekend in NYC. But, I won’t because they use a crappy old aircraft that doesn’t have their Mint service, for a long redeye flight. Ridiculous, especially given that PSP is a resort destination where every airline’s first class always sells out completely weeks before the flight. If I’m going to fly a 5+ hours flight, especially a redeye, it better have a lie-flat seat! Sorry, JetBlue, you shoot yourself in the foot on that one.
Setuo for a merger with Alaska Airlines.
Well damn….We got flights to Vegas later this year…
Tim – why does DAL seem intimidated by JBU?
JetBlue offers lie-flat premium trancon, DAL copies.
JetBlue offers in-seat entertainment on most aircraft, DAL copies.
JetBlue offers free WiFi, DAL copies.
JetBlue announces LGW service, DAL copies.
The imitation that DAL does goes all the way back to Song and it begs to wonder if DAL is really an innovator or an imitator.
No doubt B6 has stumbled, but you can’t say they aren’t innovators considering DAL today is basically JetBlue on steroids … and on time.
Delta was flying transcon lie flats long before JBLU came along…. they used and still use widebodies just as Pan Am did.
Delta flew to Gatwick long before B6 was born.
Like many other companies, Delta doesn’t have to invent every strategy but they perfect them.
DL does well because it does what B6 promises.
I think Buffalo might survive. Its goal is to serve people in WNY and Canada, not the LA passengers. As others mentioned, B6 has better name recognition in the northeast. In the past, BUF-LAX was an opportunity to use an aircraft that would otherwise sit idle in BUF by flying to BUF in the evening and back as a red eye in time for the morning runs to JFK or FL.
Tim, you literally have no evidence for your claims.
Touch some grass and talk to people in the industry. Nearly everyone still flies AA
first,
A220,
read the September quarter earnings call transcript from Delta.
They specifically addressed the strikes which were going on at the time at the automakers and in Hollywood.
DAL execs specifically said that they are the largest carrier for contract revenue for both of those industries.
Yes, I do know what I am talking about.
You live in a world which no longer exists.
You have all over the board today – bragging about all of the places on the internet where I no longer am, telling me I am wrong, and then apologizing because you placed a comment in the wrong place.
Take a break, young man.
AA will be fine. I am going nowhere.
We can pick up tomorrow.
B6 is not merging w/ anyone; they will shrink in order to get their operation back on track. AA will not pick up their share that they give up in LAX because they don’t fly the routes that B6 will abandon.
I did place a comment in the wrong place and confessed to my mistake. I’m not some stubborn that and apologise if you somehow felt offended by a misplaced comment.
DAL did not say they were the largest carrier by revenue in the entertainment industry, they just said they were “very big.” Another Tim Dunn lie.
I never said B6 will merge with anyone nor should they, but sure strawman all you want atl100million.
They did say they are the largest carrier in that industry.
the AA fankids said for years that AA had first class because the entertainment industry demanded it but AA is getting rid of the A321Ts and FC on the 777Ws, AA has lost corporate share all over the US and DL is still the largest airline at LAX – but you can’t admit that DL has indeed taken over from AA in yet another hub.
You do realize that AA had more slots at JFK and was the largest carrier in NYC as late as 2004?
Same for BOS.
But the point is still the same. You live in a world which no longer exists whether it includes your perception of market size and carrier rank or who plays where on the internet.
I’m sorry to break the news to you but AA is chasing small markets with RJs now. Being a major competitor for corporate contracts in large markets is not what it succeeds at and it isn’t chasing that market.
None of which changes that B6 will pull back at LAX; presumably AA will have room to expand?
I really think Tim Dunn is a chat bot used by the boarding area to get more comments so the boarding area can charge more for ad space based on the amount of clicks and comments
Quick 20-year history of airline mergers:
’05: USAIR & America West: Approved.
’08: Frontier & Republic: Approved.
’08: Southwest & ATA: Approved.
’10: United & Continental: Approved.
’10: Delta & Northwest: Approved.
’11: Southwest & Airtran: Approved.
’13: American & USAIR: Approved
’18: Alaska & VA: Approved
’24: JetBlue & Spirit: DENIED
Wait, what?!?! At this point — just NOW, after the last 8 massive mergers – the government wants to put the brakes on & stop airline mergers? What – because B6 will be too big, and the flying public won’t have access to cheap tickets anymore?
There are no cheap tickets on any of these airlines either:
AA: 952 aircraft fleet
DAL: 947 aircraft
UAL: 924 aircraft
SWA: 814 aircraft (ok, some cheap tix on SWA)
No cheap tickets on Delta, American, and none on United either…. because this same government allowed all the above mega-size mergers to happen. Facts. Just facts.
B6: 286 aircraft. Small carrier. (Spirit has 201 aircraft, just fyi).
Tickets sold in on B6 in three distinct ‘fare families’ — cheapest one being Blue Basic, just like Spirit. Cheap tickets on sale at JetBlue. Been doin’ it. Still doin’ it. Thanks for nothing u.s. govt. Hit those brakes
jetBlue
Always trying to be different.
What a joke!
I hope that the JetBlue flight between LAX and BUF survives even if the price goes up. I will be disappointed and physically hurting if I have to go back to flying on the agony of United and Delta.
Gary–your headline is a little misleading in that ir implies that Jet Blue might pull out of the West entirely. However, it’s really about intra-west flying, mostly from LAX. Flying within the West appears to be very competitive. OTOH, transcon flight farea have not been particularly competitive lately,, at least not nonstop from the Northwest. I would hope that Jet Blue can remain in the fray between SEA and BOS and JFK–we really need the competition.
JB is almost an unknown to the common traveller in California and almost useless to them as well given how hard it is to connect to places they might want to go. Makes sense to pull out and regroup forces in places they can actually make some money
First Tim Dunn accuses me of being a United shill, than an AA fAAnboy. Of course he never accused me of being a Delta fan despite that being the airline I said the most positive things about.
Tim Dunn lied. The entertainment industry is huge, requires a lot of travel and is the backbone of the LA economy. Of course even a fraction of that traffic is big.
Not a AA defender but it is odd to criticise AA for removing Flagship First when Delta doesn’t even offer a true First Class product.
@Chicago Chris, I hope you are right but if JetBlue does a major cutback to the west coast it would be uneconomical to continue flying a single flight or even a handful of flights. The LAX-BUF flight is usually pretty full and so is the the return. The airplane also usually goes from BUF to FLL. Since LAX to BUF is nonstop, there is not an airport in between to have weather, cancellations, timed out crew and other challenges.
Time to replace Tim Dunn with an AI.
@jns
When Parker et al took over US Airways, they shrunk the network to PHX/CLT/DCA/PHL, axing most P2P routes from other former hubs even if they were profitable.
Sometimes it’s not worth the time and effort when you can focus on the core operation.
Delta did not state it is the largest player in entertainment contracts on its 3Q call.
“As you point out, we’re very big in both of those sectors” is all Glenn said re scale during the 3Q call.
An analyst asking a question said “I think of any carrier probably the most indexed to the automotive sector and then sort of the media sector with the writers’ and actors’ strike”
sort of is the phrase…so no fact there and not from a Delta exec.
Reality is LAX is a 3 horse race no one dominates, and I’d guess that as well for the entertainment contracts. They all have a piece and the contracts aren’t necessarily exclusive either. The A list has been siphoned off to private charter the last 20 years so what’s left is less of the super premium.
Robin Hayes totally screwed up JetBlue. They had their problems before, but he destroyed whatever mojo they once had.
A220
The logic that AA fankids spouted was that they got the Hollywood corporate contracts because of first class. Supposedly DL and UA didn’t get it because they didn’t have it.
Obviously, Hollywood changed its mind or the reason for AA FC was never because of Hollywood. You take your pick. The fact that DL is, at the minimum, a major provider for Hollywood corporate travel says that FC is not necessary.
And as much as anyone wants to argue otherwise, LAX is still competitive but that doesn’t mean that someone isn’t larger – and someone used to be larger but isn’t now.
Funny how some people love to argue about size until the discussion accurately turns to the fact that their preferred carrier isn’t as large as they thought it was.
on the one hand you admit that AA has pulled back to its core hubs and then you argue with the fact that AA has been replaced by DL in many corporate contracts.
Everyone has their core hubs and there is corporate traffic – including for Hollywood – to those hubs.
It is the “competitive markets” that make the difference in corporate contract.
Delta has simply added many of the extra routes that win corporate contracts; the reason why DL carries far more corporate traffic in the US than AA or UA is because of the size of DL’s network on mainline aircraft. Once again, DL mainline flew more mainline RPMs than AA or UA.
And, yes, I know well what you have said – but all of the positive you might have said was lost when you argued about what happened on the internet a decade and a half ago.
Leave the past behind, stop trying to eliminate a competitive voice and we’ll all get along just fine.
I have heard Gary mention the Transatlantic business is doing badly for B6 but have never once seen any actual data to back that up. Load factors, revenue, CASM/RASM for each route etc. If they were doing so badly why are they expanding to DUB, EDI (and I hear rumour of LIS next, plus FLL – Eur flying if they ever get the XLRs). B6 could do with a partner airline in Europe to feed more traffic beyond London, CDG & AMS
There are no AA fankids.
Let Delta buy them out
It doesn’t surprise me. I was an avid Jet Blue flier when they were in Long Beach. Easy in and out.. direct flights to where I needed to go. Once they moved put to LAX, forget it. Jet Blue was my favorite airline. But now, with the limited flights, difficulty getting to LAX (traffic and parking is horrible), bad decision on their part, I can’tget behind them. They should’ve just taken over Long Beach Airport.l and upped their sell if flying out of there. Too bad.
Meanwhile, in the last hour, JetBlue sends me a time change (slightly earlier) for the return flight of my LAX-BUF trip at the end of April.
Surprising they never launched lax-sju
Having anything to do with Carl Ichan would be the denise of JetBlue. He screwed over thousands of employees at TWA and ran off with millions in his pocket.
If they would stop concentrating so much on the international market and ignoring their domestic routes maybe they wouldn’t be in so much trouble. The JFK – LAS used to be great = now we get the broken down planes (even Mint aircraft) seats are uncomfortable, IFE is always an issue, snacks went from being really good to mediocre etc…. Someone destroyed this airline. They need someone who understands the airline industry and bring it back to what it once was. Very sad.
The inability of LGB willing to grow their operations and allow B6 (and other airlines) to expand was part of the issue.
LGB was unable to convince the residents there to allow them to operate more flights, and B6 at the time felt it was not going to be able to grow if they’re constrained at the airport.
Unfortunate situation at LGB as it will always be a boutique airport due to those restrictions.
If you look at flight tracking by operator on Flightaware right now, all the B6 jet are concentrated along the east coast. LAX is the only west coast operation.
B6 is at a crossroads, develop a focus city in the midwest or retreat back to the east coast with zero growth.
Should The Donald win, it will be sold to the highest bidder. Should Sleepy Joe win, it will die a slow death via Carl hacking pieces off one by one.
No win situation.
Just another step towards the inevitable purchase by United.
“Fixing” the airline was never in JetBlue’s future the minute Carl Ichan got involved.
@atl100million
American Airlines has long standing and deep ties to the entertainment industry. This (along with a few other reasons not worth mentioning) is why so many Hollywood people fly AA.
Yes some do prefer and do fly United and Delta or Jetblue but American is the dominant carrier in the industry.
Tim, I checked that earnings call thrice now. Delta just said they were big in LA and nothing else. Of course the strike would have a greater effect on the SoCal economy and hence Deltas performance in LAX.
Nowhere did Delta say they stole a lot of corporate contracts or became the preferred carrier of Hollywood. Your lies don’t meet the sniff test.
@320Driver, JetBlue seems to being targeted by this regime. Maybe their situation would change with regime change.
A220,
you continue to be torn by wanting to contribute meaningfully and to live in the past.
As noted, Delta itself did not say that it was the largest but an analyst noted that DL was “the most indexed” to the auto and entertainment industries.
The point still remains that there are a number of AA “fankids” that continue to cling to a world that no longer exists.
As I noted, AA used to be the largest airline at LAX and had the majority of the entertainment contracts because of FC transcon and international which was heavily focused on LHR. AA is dropping its first class strategy both on the domestic and longhaul widebody
Cranky Flier is again today focusing on AA’s high percentage of RJs and small city strategy.
As much as you want to cling to the past, AA has lost share in large markets including w/ corporate contracts and including with Hollywood.
focus on the present instead of the past including where and how people “play” on the internet today instead of trying to argue about a past that no longer exists.
You don’t seem to want to tell us whether Hollywood c
JetBlue canceled their LAX-Cabo flight, that map is outdated. They fly to Puerto Vallarta now from LAX.
Leaving in Boston area loved flying Jet Blue. Now can never get a flight, their rates have skyrocketed, service is not what it was. The person running Jet Blue should listen to patrons flying it. Go back to your roots, service areas, stay what Jet Blue was; Good.
“And as much as anyone wants to argue otherwise, LAX is still competitive but that doesn’t mean that someone isn’t larger – and someone used to be larger but isn’t now.
Funny how some people love to argue about size until the discussion accurately turns to the fact that their preferred carrier isn’t as large as they thought it was.”
Such true words, Tim… If only one specific Delta fanboy realized that loyalty programs are where money is made in the industry these days. Which, in turn, means while it’s important to fly your own metal, it also matters, A LOT, where you can redeem your miles and where your loyalty is recognized in a large market like LA and SoCal.
Of course AA is smaller in LAX than a few years ago. Are they gone? no. Is their terminal under construction temporarily? yes. And frankly, they’ve lost no gates as a result of their smaller size which matters given how LAWA allocates gates.
Have they lost any relevance in the market? No. They’re smaller in LAX than Delta from a metal perspective, but bigger in share from a loyalty perspective at LAX and, more importantly, from a loyalty perspective in Southern California where Alaska’s presence at the major SoCal airports is a huge benefit to AA flyers. To say nothing of the fact that Delta has a smaller presence at the other major SoCal markets as well which does matter since many SoCal flyers prefer LAX while others only take it when the nonstops are more convenient and prefer their local airport like SBA, ONT, BUR, or SNA.
You can keep saying your usual nonsense about Delta metal at LAX. Of course it’s true that Delta is bigger from a metal perspective, but it only betrays your own ignorance about the aviation industry and how AA has only increased relevance in Southern California and LAX during the last two years, to say nothing of international partners at LAX where Delta partners just don’t hold a candle to AA in terms of important markets out of LAX.
It says a lot that Delta ran away (sprinted might be the better term; ironic since only a year ago you told everyone that one gate at Love Field for Delta was basically the end of WN and AA in DFW. lol) from LAX-DAL after barely a few months on the market and couldn’t keep their own metal on LAX-LHR (since you care so much about metal until it doesn’t suit your narrative…).
Sorry buddy, I know you only have one train of thought, but the world of aviation is a lot bigger than painted metal in a market as large as Southern California. To suggest otherwise and to try and frame an entire narrative around it only suggests ignorance of how integral loyalty programs have become to profitability.
Related to the topic, however, it will be interesting to see if JetBlue and AA resume some form of partnership where loyal AA members could benefit from mileage accrual and enhanced elite recognition on the B6 flights out of LAX and BUR.
Reminder that Tim Dunn went under the moniker of atl100million on airliners.net.
Worldtraveler, your lie about Delta and Hollywood has been exposed. You can keep making stuff up but frankly no one is buying it anymore.
Okay but fine let’s look at your “indexed” claim.
The Analyst, Mike Lindenberg, mentioned the indexed claim in relation to the Auto industry, and Detroit is VERY dependent on this industry.
Then Lindenberg said “and then sort of the media sector.” Doesn’t exactly sound like DAL has a huge presence here if he said “sort of.” The only reason he even mentioned this was because the question was in regards to **underperforming** sector’s.
The rest of your comment is strawmanning me as an AA Shill despite me not being so. Keep gaslighting yourself Timmy
you started well, Max, but you went off on the deep end of bias.
You are correct that AA is not short of gates at LAX even though plenty of other people use that as an excuse for why AA has shrunk.
You lose it when you claim that AA is the largest by loyalty – because you simply don’t provide data to back up your claim. Feel free to provide it if you have it, but I know you don’t any more than any other person does.
and the point of loyalty programs is to generate, wait, wait, loyalty. AA can’t live on the value of its loyalty and not fly esp. in competitive markets
As much as you and others including Gary want to believe otherwise, no US airline makes enough from their loyalty program to offset losses they incur in trying to keep up w/ larger markets. At the same time, they can’t make up for the revenue they don’t generate flying by using revenue from loyalty in a large highly competitive market. It is simply impossible for AA to make up for the revenue it doesn’t carry any longer from LAX to keep up with what DL actually does carry as the largest carrier.
And DL generates more revenue from its loyalty and card programs than any other airline – US or not. AA’s loyalty program is not a competitive unique advantage any longer; and UA does recognize that the reason why DL’s card and loyalty program does so well is because of DL’s larger size in the domestic market. DL carries more domestic RPMs on its own metal than any other airline.
to no surprise, you camp on exceptions and anecdotes and draw conclusions which are simply illogical and unsupported by data.
Delta moves flights around at Love Field because it has a gate of its own to use and is free to do that – just as every other airline can do at any other airport.
Delta is not changing the number of flights from Love Field but is doubling down on heading east instead of splitting its capacity from Love Field going east and west.
You don’t know the reasons they are choosing to do that but you are drawing the wrong conclusion because they have failed because you simply do not have the data to come to that conclusion. You don’t know how much potential they now see with more flights to ATL and heading east including connecting to their massive international network at ATL.
you and others want to live in a world which no longer exists…. AA is not the largest at LAX, the largest single US airport by O&D revenue, because they chose to outsource portions of their flying to other domestic competitors and because AA really does not get a premium in many of the competitive markets.
And B6 sees the exact same thing which is why they are pulling back.
DL is simply the largest airline at LAX, NYC and BOS – all of which were former AA strength markets. Just like AA and UA, DL gets good revenue from its hubs. DL just has done a better job in increasing its share in large highly competitive markets including those where AA was once stronger but DL is now.
How about a full codesharing alliance with Alaska Air.
A220,
you have proved over and over again that you are an old, unhappy person that can’t stand the reality and so keeps digging up the past.
Deal with the facts.
And it really doesn’t matter if Delta is the largest contractor for Hollywood or not because DL is by far larger in LAX and has started routes like AKL which AA walked away from and now wants to try to regain. There are multiple other markets including LAX-MSY where AA has waffled and DL has pounced.
and then you can talk about LAX up and down the west coast. AA waffled. DL pounced. UA does not have the gates.
The fact that you fail to see that while clinging to a world that no longer exists says volumes about you.
Jet blue better of with LB airport
So many lies and distractions from Tim, as usual, when he can’t contradict a point or prove his own.
YAWN.
I’ll just say this since everything else was just an attempt to distract from the overall point that Delta is smaller in every measurement at LAX and SoCal vs AA except metal. Which, of course, matters, but not when you’re talking about an entrenched industry player, and the relevance to their own loyal members has only increased, not decreased in the last few years in Southern California and LAX through strategic moves by AA with direct Delta competitors.
But… Delta itself was telling the courts and DOJ that they’d operate A LOT more than ATL from love Field if they got a gate or two. But then competing against AA and WN hit them and they realized they simply can’t compete on NYC-DAL or LAX-DAL… And frankly, that’s two markets where AA is very strong, albeit to DFW. Delta also retreated on LAX-LHR, another AA stronghold.
Tim, dogmatic statements are a bit trite and silly, but since it seems to be all you know… if you want to talk about Delta’s ability to compete, they just ran away from AA on two major LAX markets.
AA isn’t a perfect airline by far. Neither is delta but with limited resources AA found a way to pay down debt quickly while not losing any slots or gates in NYC or LAX and only increasing relevance in LAX. Your biases are widely known, but if Delta had done that you’d be screaming praise from the high heavens.
And A220… I’d forgotten about Mr ATL100Million.. good memory. Funny how tim didn’t even bother responding since it was him. This from a guy that goes off on others for not using their real names despite Tim Dunn not being his real name or ATL100Million or Worldtraveller, or, frankly, JumboJet if you looked at the exact same style of writing from all three and that all three are banned (along with Tim’s IP address of phone, home, and just about everything else).
Tim has long hid behind fake names and aliases, to say nothing of his random usernames he uses to reply to himself in comment sections.
JetBlue needs to give up on RDU as well. They compete against DL on their three main nonstops (BOS, JFK, FLL) as well as AA on JFK and Spirit on FLL. None of those flights connect well to any point west of I-95. I can’t imagine they get too many corporate business travelers on those routes, so they may as well redeploy resources elsewhere.
Used to fly jetBlue to San Juan, from either Denver (via BOS or JFK), or as a separate flight from TPA. Enjoyed it. High value back then. Haven’t flown with them much the last 10 years. Too bad. Used to be a great alternative.
JETBLUE really showed Long Beach who’s the boss. Southwest wants to thank you for all the gates. I only hope the person who decided to leave Long Beach was fired from JETBLUE.
you need help, Max.
the only highlight in all of this is how off the rocker A220 is with you.
You live in a fantasy land about AA.
It is no surprise that you can’t stand the truth. It is pathological how deep you and A220 stoop in order to shut down the facts which you don’t want to hear.
AA like B6 has wilted under the competitive pressure from Delta. That is a simple undeniable fact. At least it is undeniable for anyone that doesn’t have their identity and self-worth wrapped up in a company.
And let Breeze fly all over the west coast!!!!! Sorry kids!!!! Miss you all!✈️
The irony of @atl100million (which I found out accidentally btw)
I’m actually far from an old and unhappy person actually, you don’t know anything about me. Not only is this projection, but it’s another Dunn insult from when he loses the argument. My exact point has been proven.
Anyways American can send you up and down the west coast from LAX. Delta can’t.
American can send you to/from/through Sydney, Tokyo, London, etc. Delta can’t.
While Delta has ATL, AA blankets the south with DFW/CLT/MIA.
American will have the most gates at LAX once construction is done.
Delta can’t even profitability fly into Dallas Love Field.
I’m more than happy to praise Delta and criticise American, but I expect Tim Dunn to insult me again because that’s what he does when he loses the argument.
yes, you are a grumpy old man whether your birth certificate shows it or not.
And you prove exactly what I have been dealing w/ for 20 years of participation in aviation social media: a small group of people that cannot live with the reality that their airline is not what they want it to be.
If you are so convinced that AA still holds sway with Hollywood, then explain the routes they fly and why AA has still cut capacity in market after market from LAX.
And, no, AA can’t carry you up and down dozens of cities on the west coast on its own metal anymore.
And you do realize that DL has operated more seats from LAX to SYD than any other airline including QF for months?
AA’s strategy is ALL about the south but that is ALL AA has. It is a shadow of its former self in NYC and Chicago, has shrunk PHL and BOS.
CLT and DFW have far more RJs than ATL – all the flights in the world don’t matter when they are heavily on RJs. ATL is 85% mainline – and heavily large mainline at that.
I’m sorry that you can’t accept the airline industry as it exists today and want to dream about getting rid of any opposing voices.
You were wrong then and you are still wrong.
And B6 is finally doing what AA ended up doing – cutting its losses and routes in markets where it can’t compete with better competitors.
btw, I just looked at the amount of capacity from MIA to a number of cities in Latin America and was shocked at how much larger Latam is than AA in terms of seats offered to city after city.
You do realize who owns a good chunk of Latam and has a JV with Latam?
Perhaps even I underestimated the role DL now has in the S. Florida to Latin America market. but B6 now realizes why it can’t compete.
I love how @atl100million (weird how you keep responding to that) just ignored how I debunked his “indexed” claim about LAX.
Actually no Tim. I spoke to my girlfriend and she said I was a Gemini, and I trust her judgement far more than yours.
Okay we get it Tim you were @worldtraveler than @atl100million on a.net you don’t need to brag about it.
Tim, just because they hold contracts within the entertainment industry doesn’t mean there’s infinite demand to fly to somewhere like Memphis. Another strawman.
Actually AA can get me nearly everywhere. Go to their website and book a flight from SFO to PDX, it’s possible. I can AAdvantage miles too!
You trying to turn me into a fAAnboy? I said several times I won’t defend them yet you keep attacking American here. Another strawman.
Wait, are you telling me that a DL A359 has more capacity than a 77W AND an A380? Now I heard everything.
keep attacking AA buddy. Keep going all day long.
as I have repeatedly noted even as you double down, you are more interested in attacking the bearer of the news than to admit the reality which of which I speak.
AA simply has shrunk in LAX, contracted out alot of flying to AS and simply does not have the reach compared to DL that it once had.
If you were so certain that AA continued to carry more Hollywood traffic, you should be able to tell us the routes where that happens – but you can’t.
Any semi-objective person can see that Hollywood traffic will mirror the rest of what an airline carries from LAX. AA has shrunk and handed traffic to DL. same as in NYC and BOS and same as what AA did for UA in CHI.
and, yes, DL’s original build A350-900s have as many seats as AA’s 777Ws. And DL’s 9 ex-Latam A350s carry several dozen more seats than AA’s 777Ws. And as soon as the ex-Latam A350s are converted, DL will start receiving A350-1000s which will have dozens more seats than AA will have on their 777Ws.
You highlight the real issue in your last paragraph. You can’t stand when anyone says anything negative about AA despite the fact that those things are true. Your identity is wrapped up in AA and you attack anyone that dares say anything negative about them.
keep talking. the more you say, the more you reveal your true self – which I knew all along. You are not the only one.
I’m sorry Mayor of Liliburn, Georgia,
But saying a Delta A359 has more capacity than a Qantas A380 is by far your dumbest comment yet.
I can’t take you seriously anymore man lmao this is too funny
you also can’t read.
Delta operates TWO A350-900 flights per day on LAX-SYD and the combined number of seats on those TWO flights is more than any other carrier including QF’s single A380 flight.
Keep digging. You are destroying your own credibility with every post and only proving that you are a vindictive angry person that can’t stand for anyone to point out real facts that are very much true but you don’t like.
AA is.horrible, just because you like them doesn’t mean we should. Also why should they build up BOS? Do you live there or something?
United should buy JetBlue for the hub at FLL, JetBlue’s fleet, and the gates at JFK. If UA doesn’t try, DL definitely will.