Fox & Friends writer Griffin Frank shared video of a passenger confronted by a Frontier Airlines employee over their refusal to wear a mask on board. The woman hadn’t merely forgotten a mask. The airline provided one to her. She accepted it, presumably in order to board the flight. She just wouldn’t wear it.
She’s told, “You have to wear your mask the whole entire flight. If you’re unable to do so you will be removed from the flight.” Following the admonition the employee leaves. The passenger would probably have gotten away with ignoring the mask request, and been on her way, but while the employee was still in earshot she started cursing. That brought the employee back – and got the woman ejected.
You’re getting off the aircraft. You’re done, you’re not going to speak to me like that. You have to comply. You agreed to this when you checked into our flight and when you bought your ticket, so I need you to get off the aircraft at this time.
The plane erupted in applause after the mask-less woman was taken off. Someone even called her “Karen.” pic.twitter.com/zVLuSlYivN
— Griffin Frank (@GriffinFrank) December 3, 2020
Other passengers clapped. They thanked the officers for removing the woman. Some yelled, “Bye Karen!”
According to the airline,
Frontier Airlines’ face covering policy is clearly explained during the reservations and check-in process, during boarding and onboard the aircraft. ‘Face coverings are required throughout a traveler’s journey when flying with Frontier.
Frontier Airlines flight F9 1759 from Cincinnati to Tampa still managed to operate on time. And the woman wasn’t just removed, but banned from flying the airline as well – added to their “Prevent Departure List.”
Now, I’ve characterized her as a mask refusenik, and indeed she refused to follow the airline’s mask rules. The term often refers to protesters engaging in civil disobedience. But of course refuseniks were also Soviet Jews who were refused permission to leave the country for Israel. This woman wasn’t refused permission to leave the plane, she was required to do so.
That was pretty stupid on her part. If you don’t want to wear the mask (me) don’t board an aircraft. (me)
Freedumb !
Everyone kept their composure and acted professionally. Overall, the best outcome possible (given the circumstances).
the consequences of believing in the messiah Trump but it is not the worst as 250k plus are dead.
@Ed — there is nothing professional about this statement “You’re done, you’re not going to speak to me like that.” It is completely ego tripping and extraneous. All that was needed was this part: “I need you to get off the aircraft at this time.”
We have Freedom of Speech in the US, so it is completely out of line to to dictate how others will “speak to” you.
Also the “Karen” nomenclature is extremely offensive, but hypocritical leftist SJWs will not acknowledge that, for some reason.
@Jason – Freedom of speech does not extend to cursing someone, or at least it shouldn’t. I’m not a big fan of FA’s these days but I’ve never used foul language when speaking to them. Once you cross that line they have every right in my opinion to remove you from the aircraft.
@OneXMarine — I share your opinion that an FA has the right to remove a passenger. (Freedom of speech constitutionally protects profanities for the most part, although I also agree they should not be used on aircraft.) My argument is that FAs using elementary schoolteacher verbiage, such as “you’re not going to speak to me like that,” accomplishes nothing other than ego stroking power tripping, which we should all discourage.
@Anyone —
The power of an FA to remove a passenger is proper, because some passengers, such as mask-refusers, should indeed be removed.
What we need to watch out for is how (what behaviors) an FA exercises in the process of removal. If the behaviors include power-tripping, the FA is not being professional. If I’m Frontier CEO, this FA is getting immediately fired.
Sadly, she won’t be the last passenger we read or hear about that refuse to comply with the mask requirement. Whether they realise it or not, all passengers having a ticket agree to all conditions of carriage when checking in. From the multitude of announcements made at the gate and posted signs throughout the terminal, she knows better. Flying is not a right. Kudos to Frontier and security for enforcing the mandate and taking this passenger out of the plane. Maybe airlines should share their passenger ban lists with each other and that will make people think twice in their actions.
@Dennis — I am onboard with your comment except the part that “flying is not a right.” Freedom of movement, while not a US Constitution right, is recognized by ethical scholars as a human right. As such, “ban lists” are violations of ethics.
@Jason – I see your point however I thought the F/A was very considerate when speaking with the passenger and did not deserve to be spoken to that way. If someone were to come into my place of business and say something similar they would probably hear something from me very close to what the F/A said. I’ve never had a verbal exchange with a F/A. If they do something that I don’t like I just ignore them and read or watch a movie, whatever. In this day and age you’re not going to win an argument with them and quite likely the airlines are now ban happy. I take it up with management after the flight, which is pretty worthless, but I don’t have to worry about being banned from traveling. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I respect that.
@OneXMarine — Thank you, I respect your views and the manner in which you communicated them.
That woman is living proof that you can’t fix stupid. Mask requirements to fly aren’t a state secret. If you’re unwilling to abide by the very public rules that an airline dictates, rent a car and drive. She obviously thinks that the rules don’t apply to her.
@Christian — you needed living proof?
@Jason – I’m with you on the freedom of movement and if they are going to impose a travel ban there should be some very rigid guidelines, or F/A’s will start getting people banned for the most minor of violations. Similar to the F/A’ s reporting the man on the flight to Palm Springs as an “unruly” passenger and the police took him into custody. @Gary, is there any update on that such as charges filed or not, passenger lawsuit against the airline, etc.?
She received the outcome that she deserved. Why would anyone think that they could possibly get away with not wearing a mask?
@Jason – I don’t hunt for proof.My friends and acquaintances accuse me of being unduly optimistic but people doing stuff like that really shakes my basic faith in humanity.
Bye Karen. Why do these trumo supporters think that they are exempt?
I’m a people pleaser by nature. I will wear a mask and do what’s expected, whether I think it’s useful or not. I simply don’t to cause undue delay or burden to others.
Having said that. I don’t agree with the “You must obey all crew member instructions at all times” mind set. If you follow that rationale a crew member could.tell someone they must sit in the back of the plane because they’re African American. Federal law rightly prohibits airlines from imposing such preposterous restrictions.
In this case there is no federal mandate requiring mask usage.
Passenger wasn’t complying with crew member instructions to follow the rules she agreed to by showing up and checking in. Got kicked off of the plane. Not sure how this is complicated.
Banned from airline ≠ banned from flying. She’s free to move about on another air carrier, train, bus, car, bicycle, scooter, horse, etc…just not on Frontier.
Wearing a blue medical mask is as effective as erecting a chain link fence to keep out mosquitos..
Do the research instead of drinking the cool-aid.
What gets me with these stories, is that Airlines tell you that a mask is required when you buy a ticket, when you check in, when you go through security, the airport announces it every 5 minutes, the gate agent announces it, the FAs announce it.
And yet people get onto the plane, and then decide that it infringes their freedom, or that they don’t want to wear the type of mask that is required.
You don’t hear about people refusing to wear masks through TSA. All these idiots know enough to wear one through security… It’s faux outrage, in the age of extreme polarization, where politics have become the way we define ourselves. I see people sharing these videos on right wing media, and hailing them as heros, and seeing it as their duty to fight against things like mask policies.
The Federal Aviation rule is you will be removed if you interfere with the safe operation of the aircraft as the Flight attendants are responsible for your safety that means don’t mess with the aircraft the flight attendants or the pilots As masks are now deemed a safety item you’re never gonna win that fight. Most FA’s are thick skinned but in these times they have to cover their asses too. Just be nice
Love how snowflakes like @jason don’t understand the concept of freedom of speech. He only understands freedumbs
The woman in the green shirt is not an FA – it’s a gate agent. Frontier FA’s do not wear green polos.
@jason, profanity directed at a specific person isn’t protected by the first amendment:
“Profane rants that cross the line into direct face-to-face personal insults or fighting words are not protected by the First Amendment.“
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1143/profanity
My best friend of 14 years was the sweetest person.. Obeyed rules everyone liked her.. She died in a horrible accident at the age of 21… Her name was Karen..
I find this “Karen” bs insulting to her memory.. Non maskers are idiots.. Entitled people male or female are idiots.. “Karen” has NOTHING to do with it!
bravo to the flight attendant.
It’s not like we’re all having a swell time wearing a mask over an entire trip. And I understand everybody is on edge. But the policy has to be enforced for all our benefit.
I think a lifetime ban from the airline is exaggerated. Just ban her until fall 2021 or whenever the airline’s mask mandate is over. If anything’s a power trip, it’s this part.
I once Swore at a Delta gate agent about 15 years ago, and got in a lot of trouble. She had been absolutely horrible to me and had gone on a power trip. Of course I regretted it right away. It’s human to short-circuit and lose control, but that’s not an excuse. I apologized and luckily they let me fly. It isn’t an episode I’m proud of, I felt pretty bad for about a week about what I’d said — and it was infuriating because it somehow excused the flight attendants unacceptable behavior before I insulted her. It’s like I just check-mated myself in the whole argument by loosing my cool.
Needless to say, after that I never raised my voice or said anything bad to a gate agent (or any other employee actually) again, despite being in comparable situations again over the years. Arguments, yes, but carefully choosing my words.
All this to say that the lady cussing at the flight attendant shouldn’t have to mean a lifetime ban from the airline, if she apologizes and shows a bit of humility and promises to behave in the future.
@Matt
The thing is, we don’t have to look up how effective a blue surgical mask. The airlines all tell you that they are required, so does TSA, and so does the airport.
Just like restaurants require shoes and shirts, and can refuse service. Airlines make it very clear what type of masks are required, and that you are required to wear it for the entire flight.
This woman had agreed multiple times to wear one before she got to the airport. She has to agree to wear a mask when she checked in, when she went through security, If she didn’t want to wear one, those were the times to decide to just go home… Not throwing a tantrum on the plane when everyone has already boarded.
Don’t get me wrong. I agree the passenger should comply. It’s not that difficult. Just put the damn mask on and stop holding everyone up. What she did was rude and self-centered. BUT she is right on a technicality. There is no federal mask mandate. And there is no precedence.
I have a couple of lawyer friends and my understanding is that all law must follow precedence. Any lawyers out there feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on this.
@temperance – I’m reasonably sure that the Karen chants were not towards your deceased friend, but a reference to the “Karen” in the smudge cat meme you see on Facebook. I’m sorry for your loss but you shouldn’t take things like this personal. I’m sure you friend Karen was a wonderful lady and was thankful to have a friend like you.
Passengers who are forced off planes for refusing to “mask up” should be on the no-fly list for all Airlines as well as all airports including an alert to TSA to not allow them entrance into the security area. This covid issue is no playing joke.
The airline does a great service for the good of all when they put these people on a no fly list. Imagine how much more miserable flying would be if a “Karen” was on every flight you took………and the next infraction that going to get you on the list is using your cell phone on a call and refusing to hang up…………..I can’t wait for this list to get started…………
I am so sick of American Conservative spoiled brats. And let us not forget the most important fact in America right now, right wing Conservative idiots are the MINORITY in the USA. So ask yourselves, why are we, the majority, subjected to an insanely conservative, heavily Catholic Supreme Court as well as the disgusting right wing Senate led by Moscow Mitch McDouchebag?! Enough is enough with all of these idiots!
@marv I was with you until you brought up the Catholic thing… It’s the evangelical right that is the on the fringe. Catholics are in the minority in government (Biden is only the second Catholic president), and many of the far right groups you are referencing see the Vatican and Catholics as being part of the global conspiracies against them and Trump.
Catholics and the Catholic Church, have been very critical of Trump and many of his policies.
@TS
I have nothing against Catholics per se(exception batshyt crazy pentecostal catholic ACB). What I do have a problem with is the Catholic majority of them on the US supreme court which does not proportionally represent the makeup of the American population. And did I mention their memberships in Opus Dei? Can we have an atheist on the court since we make up 25% of the American populous? The rational and science oriented people in the USA have zero representation in government. Which should scare the shyt out of everyone. We have superstitious and ignorant people running the country.
1. The First Amendment means that the *government* can’t stop you from speaking your mind. Airlines can have their own rules on board their planes.
2. The right to freedom of movement means the *government* can’t stop you from traveling. A private business, like an airline or a taxi company, can still refuse you service.
3. It’s true that there is no federal law about wearing masks. But private businesses set their own conditions for providing services to you all the time. There is no federal law requiring you wear a shirt, but many restaurants refuse entry if you don’t. Airlines and retail stores can require you wear a mask to enter their private property.
TS….. you are EXACTLY right. She agreed, therefore Karen should comply.
Bye Karen! Enjoy your new celebrity status on the No Fly list
Trump galore.
The PAX was just WRONG. The FA was done with her. Why does it have to be that once you are told what to do that a PAX can do what they want? the PAX could have not worn her seat belt. put the tray table down. etc. When the FA , in her opinion felt the PAX was swearing at her BEFORE the flight even took of. Does the FA even think she would listen during an Emergency? That PAX would be the Witch that would be trying to get her bag out holding up the line while the plane was on fire.
If said that to my MOM should would have just smacked my face, School teacher would have sent me to the principal office., Boss would have fired me.
DUH Can not fix stupid Karen’s. Why does everyone else have to suffer.
Will someone please leave a scholarly educated rebuttal?
Seriously. This comment section is a shit show.
What LEGAL precedence does an airline have to deny boarding to an unmasked passenger?
Yes, the passenger is a complete ass for not complying. We all get that. Point made. But legally, what’s the basis for the denied boarding?
And no, it’s not “Their airline, their rules.” Airlines can’t simply.make up their own regulations. It must be within the scope of law.
Why must Liberals always inject politics into everything.? The hate and name calling were bad enough prior to the election process.. Political snark has no place here.
@chris it is as simple as “the airline makes their own rules”. They do not need to make rules within the scope of the law, and don’t need legal precedence… Those things have to do with legal challenges to bills or court rulings…
Airlines are corporations, and they determine the conditions required for you to board. There’s no law saying you can’t be shirtless in the US, but you can’t go out to eat or board a plane without a shirt… Same goes for a mask. Businesses can set rules, and legal precedence would only come in if the rules unfairly discriminated, or violated another law… Which the mask mandate doesn’t. They clearly tell you before you buy a ticket, after you buy a ticket, a few days before check-in, at check-in, at the gate, when you board, and just before takeoff.
What you’re saying just isn’t correct.
Airliness aren’t bound by legal precedence, they are free to require you to comply with their conditions for boarding, just like a restaurant can throw you out, or refuse service if you don’t meet their requirements.
@ts: what you claim is simply not true.
All legal entities in all autonomous/independent territories worldwide MUST function WITHIN the scope of the law in the said territory. The law may be discriminatory (eg only a company headquartered in that territory/country may have some rights) or advantageous to some (eg churches do not pay taxes in most countries), but such rules are also spelled out in the law, they are not granted outside of the scope of the law.
In principle, that goes for individuals in those territoriues, but some leeway exists for individual human beings (slap-on-the-wrist clause for first offence of otherwise law abiding citizens, foreigners, young adults under 21, certainly for 14-18 yeard olds not to even mention in almost all countries complete legal impunity for under 14 year olds) which is regularly not extended to corporations, associations, religious organisations, clubs and such.
Thanks! It now makes sense to me.
Mee Mee and James still IDIOTS!!!!
@Serbian-Canadian, what you’re quoting has nothing to do with a business requiring compliance with their policies for service. There are no laws preventing me from walking down the street without a shirt on, yet a restaurant can choose not to serve me if I try to come in without a shirt on.. Same with masks; any business can require a mask as a preqreuisite for service.
What you’re talking about is how companies have to follow local laws. Refusing service for non-compliance is not against any local laws.
Here’s a good article explaining that companies do have the right to require things like shirts, shoes, and masks, as long as they require it of everyone, not just certain groups. Most companies in the US (retail, restaurants, air carriers, et cetera) all require masks now, and it is their right to do so.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/can-businesses-refuse-serve-customers-who-dont-wear-masks/VIBZWIZZKBHVREODHH5MC6QRJY/
That’s why I didn’t fly during the required mask stage. I could handle it but I knew my two handicapped sons would never keep it on during an entire flight. I’m glad my name is not Karen. If it was I would feel insulted that Karen is used to describe a problem person.