California Couldn’t Build High-Speed Rail — Now It’s Studying 140 MPH Buses [Roundup]

News and notes from around the interweb:

  • California High Speed Rail turned into a $100 billion boondoggle they cannot actually build… so they’re now talking about high speed buses. This is not The Onion. It is impossible to parody. Also, potential new grift!


    Caltrans is studying the possibility of high-speed buses traveling up to 140 miles per hour on California freeways, an idea transportation leaders say could one day transform long-distance travel across the state.

    …The concept envisions connecting locations such as Sacramento, the Bay Area, Los Angeles and San Diego through dedicated freeway lanes, transit hubs and long-distance express bus service. …The preliminary Caltrans review found current U.S. freeways are generally designed for speeds up to about 85 miles per hour, meaning faster bus travel would require significant infrastructure upgrades, dedicated lanes, redesigned vehicles and advanced safety technology. Researchers also pointed to the need for automated driving systems, advanced braking technology and vehicle-to-everything communication systems to help improve safety at higher speeds.

  • Free drink every Monday at Capital One cafes through September 7 (HT: Doctor of Credit

  • MrBeast only books flights that offer Starlink. I remember when United’s Scott Kirby explained at the Phoenix Airport Symposium why US Airways was finally adding wifi – he didn’t believe they’d ever make money offering it, so they weren’t going to do it, until they finally saw that they were losing ticket sales by not having it. Not having Starlink is now like not having wifi.

  • Ex-Delta Air Lines President Glen Hauenstein joins the board of WestJet

  • Stop it.

    Forced to Check Bags
    by
    u/Willing_Tomato_8492 in
    SouthwestAirlines

  • Woman gets TSA secondary screening for using the wrong soap tests positive for gunpowder.

  • Before the latest update to American Airlines premium cabin wine I’d have regarded this as a massive upgrade:

  • If a working elevator were included in the resort fee, they might have to refund it, but it is not…

  • California High Speed Rail turned into a $100 billion boondoggle they cannot actually build… so they’re now talking about high speed buses. This is not The Onion. It is impossible to parody. Also, potential new grift!

    Caltrans is studying the possibility of high-speed buses traveling up to 140 miles per hour on California freeways, an idea transportation leaders say could one day transform long-distance travel across the state.

    …The concept envisions connecting locations such as Sacramento, the Bay Area, Los Angeles and San Diego through dedicated freeway lanes, transit hubs and long-distance express bus service. …The preliminary Caltrans review found current U.S. freeways are generally designed for speeds up to about 85 miles per hour, meaning faster bus travel would require significant infrastructure upgrades, dedicated lanes, redesigned vehicles and advanced safety technology. Researchers also pointed to the need for automated driving systems, advanced braking technology and vehicle-to-everything communication systems to help improve safety at higher speeds.

About Gary Leff

Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary »

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Comments

  1. Protein powder registered as explosive years ago at BOS, we were heading to Nashville for a marathon and had some protein (PreJym brand) actually shut down a security line, they wouldn’t open it or let me touch it to show them.

    Missed our flight, the gate was just on the other side of the wall from security. Eventually they opened the container, looked at me and said it was just protein powder then 8 security and police just walked away.

  2. If you bring some kind of powder (protein, baby) through the Security line it normally needs to be checked. Most of the time there’s no alarm but it can alarm for either explosives or drugs. It’s happened to me. They take you aside, pat you down, take your ID and ask questions. Then the cop comes down to TSA, runs a drug test on the powder and of course it’s negative and then you’re free to proceed. After giving flyers a live drama show.

    As far as California. They most certainly can spend $150 billion on high speed buses and not one will ever be built. But the voters have a choice and my money is they will vote for this again come fall.

  3. Back in the day i used to host a lot of parties.
    If that Cabernet was in a ten liter glass jar or some sort, I think it would be a great party asset.
    In plastic the wine reacts with the plastic, disgusting.

  4. If you’re having a good faith discussion on high speed rail, that’s one thing, but this feels more like blue-state bashing. Red meat for the View from the Right Wing base. What next Gary? Dogs on planes? That’ll get folks goin’ again!

    California can built high speed rail; it just hasn’t yet. FL built MIA-Orlando, but Brightline is failing financially. Meanwhile, Acela is doing quite well on the DC-NYC-BOS route; Amtrak’s financials have actually been great recently.

  5. “This is not The Onion. It is impossible to parody.”

    Actually, The Onion already did, in 2010:
    “President Obama announced changes to his proposed Recovery Act today, replacing his national high-speed rail plan with a national high-speed bus plan. The switch to the new buses which cruise at speeds of up to 165 mph will save $17 billion.”
    https://youtu.be/QNixDlRoMvA

  6. Born in North Hollywood Ca. in the 60’s, lived here all my life, in the past 35 years there is nothing this state won’t do to give away taxpayer dollars to grifters and criminals. We have (no) highspeed rail, but we spent billions. That didn’t work, so now let’s spend billions on busses that will never be delivered. Seriously? 140 mph busses? Even if they could deliver this system, that’s roughly 2x the speed of traffic on the open highway, what is that going to do for anyone? As Forrest Gump said “Stupid is as stupid does” It never ceases to amaze me how dumb and gullible the California voting public is. The pure definition of stupid is: “Doing the same dumb thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome”….. Smh Trust me, people in this state will probably approve it, fast forward 10 years and billions of dollars and nothing will come of it,

  7. @D Fray — Ahh, yes, just call ‘em dumb. That’s brilliant. Why didn’t anyone else think of that yet! Sounds like you should run for office and ‘be the change you want to see in’ your home state… or do you have a better idea?

  8. Blue state bashing? Hahahaha!

    Come on, @1990, the jokes on 21st Century California governance write themselves. What a disgrace.

  9. My kid was on a farm and it set off problems in the line. Apparently the fertilizer there had nitrogen-based chemicals that mimicked explosives . So that is something to consider if you are planning to visit one before a flight.

  10. The difference @1990 is that the Brightline is a private enterprise. From a hearing:

    It’s not publicly funded at all,” Brightline executive Michael Reininger said at a 2017 congressional hearing. “It’s completely an investment of private‑sector capital.”\

    However, the state paid for station and line improvements of approximately $486 million. That’s far less than the $150 billion the state of CA put in. Not to mention Brightline has actual trains running on actual tracks.

    Again, you spout off nonsense without checking your facts.

  11. @George Romey — You mean public-private partnership (P3)… c’mom, man. If/when they fail, FL taxpayers are on the hook, regardless. Sure, a few investors will also lose their shirt, too.

    @stogieguy7 — You added nothing of substance and proved my point.

  12. I’ve planned and help implement freeway based express bus services, including station design.

    The 140 mph bus thing is going nowhere. But if it proceeds, I’m sure in the end it will be “value engineered” back to Greyhound standards.

  13. Regarding California and their rapid rail/fast buses…the dumb masses that voted for the crackpots in Sacramento are getting what they deserve. That goes for Albany, Olympia and Salem, too! Meanwhile, the “brain trusts” and the corporate dollars aren’t leaving these states…they are running away! “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” is attributed to Albert Einstein.

  14. Kalifornia. Where the mayor of LA wants to be re-elected after watching her city burn with fire hydrants that didn’t work. Maybe she should have stayed in Ghana.

  15. @Coffee Please — So, just bigotry?

    C’mon, fellas, choo-choos can work, even in red-states. I’m sure Gary might take high-speed-rail, occasionally, if one existed between Dallas-Waco-Austin-San Antonio-Houston…

    Why are we letting the Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Koreans, Europeans, Indonesians, and even Moroccans have all the fun?

  16. @1990

    Until you have lived here for 60+ years, watched Sacramento waste $15 billion over 16 years on a nonexistent high speed rail system that was supposed to cost half of that and now projected to be $35 billion, paid ridiculously high state taxes, pay $6.50+ per gallon of gas, watched politicians squander the state budget on unimportant pet projects while the infrastructure falls apart… You have nothing to contribute to the conversation about California. This place has become a complete mess. Yes, DUMB and DUMBER are at the wheel.

  17. @1990. What was bigoted about what is said? Was she not in Ghana? When the truth hurts your side raises the racist, bigot, fascist, flag.

  18. @D Fray — Oh, so, doubling-down, gatekeeping, and moving goal posts… No, you don’t have to live anywhere 60-years to ‘get it.’ Likewise, you can live there 80 years and still ‘know nothing.’ Any actual ideas on how to do anything better, or just more whining and name-calling?

    @Coffee Please — You know better. ‘Go back to Africa,’ especially to a black person, even if they have ancestry or have visited there, isn’t a good-faith sentiment, at all.

  19. “Not having Starlink is now like not having wifi.”
    – No. Gary, that’s not remotely true. The extremely online or extremely discoursed may feel this way, but ordinary people do not differentiate like this. Even as hyperbole, this is c’est tiré par les cheveux

  20. Reading the comments, is it any wonder why some individuals on this site refer to 1990 as “retard”?

  21. @1990

    No one is “gatekeeping,” and this isn’t about how many years someone has lived here. It’s about personal experience and track record and results.

    California voters approved high-speed rail in 2008 with a clear set of expectations: timeline, budget, and scope. Since then, the project has seen significant cost escalation, delays, and a reduced delivery plan relative to what was originally presented. That’s not a partisan talking point—that’s just the observable outcome.

    When I say people should be more critical, I’m not arguing people are incapable—I’m saying we should expect better stewardship of public funds and demand accountability when large infrastructure projects consistently miss their marks.

    The concern with ideas like “140 mph buses” isn’t innovation—it’s whether we’re repeating a familiar pattern:

    ambitious concept
    optimistic projections
    large upfront public spend
    and ultimately a scaled-back or undelivered result

    If there’s a credible path to execute something like this—engineering, safety, cost, right-of-way, and all—great. But given the state’s recent history in this exact space, skepticism isn’t “whining,” it’s rational due diligence.

    So the real question isn’t whether people should “believe” in big transit ideas—it’s:
    What’s structurally different this time that would lead to a materially better outcome?

    You seem to have all the answers, If you can answer that clearly, I’m all ears.

  22. @1990

    Once again, she was in Ghana when the fires in LA happened. Like I said maybe she should have stayed.

  23. @Mike P — Not hearing any ideas or solutions… just more folks, like yourself, as usual, calling others ‘dumb’ on here. Got anything, of-substance, in good-faith? Naw, didn’t think so…

    @Coffee Please — Not relevant to the state’s choochoos, but ok… Would you like to emphasize the 44th President’s scary-sounding middle-name next? It would be about as helpful here.

    @D Fray — You brought up those factors (your residency in the state); not me. I asked you for better ideas; you provided none, blamed perceived enemies, then turned my own appeals for better ideas back on me. I think there is still merit to high-speed rail, in California and elsewhere. I just think they need to actually complete it. You’re apparently happy to see them give up, and try nothing else. So, like I said above, there really is little productive debate here. Just blue-state bashing. “California-bad” if you will. ‘TDS’ but maybe… CDS?

  24. @Gary – Graft? Texas could teach California a thing or two. How about having a former U.S. President – before he was elected to be fair – sell people a Texas stadium they already paid for. As scams go, it’s a beaut!

  25. “Got anything, of-substance, in good-faith?”

    Why? What difference would it make? At some point, most people realize the futility of trying to break through that “brick wall” you call a brain. The evidence is overwhelming that California’s high-speed rail is an abject failure, and you refuse to admit it. Rather, you make every attempt to “defend the indefendible”.

  26. @1990

    You’re arguing against something I didn’t say. I purposely didn’t call any particular person or political affiliation names or engage in “blue‑state bashing”—I pointed out the well‑documented cost overruns and execution failures of this project. That’s a critique of performance, not politics. And yes, we “tried” to build high speed rail for 16 years at 4X the original budget with zero results, should we just keep throwing money at something our government officials cannot deliver no matter the cost? No, I pointed out repeating the same mistakes is “Dumb” and trusting/voting for them to do something successful on a similar different track is “Dumb”.

    If you want to defend high‑speed rail as an idea, go ahead—I haven’t argued against it. But pretending the execution issues don’t exist isn’t a serious position and saying we should keep trying is foolishness.

    At this point, this thread has turned into you reframing my comments into something easier to attack rather than addressing what I actually said. That’s not a productive discussion and based on the comments I have seen from you since I signed up for this blog, I question your motives, it seems you simply enjoy being the board Troll on most topics.

    I’m not interested in continuing a circular argument.

    Have a good day.

  27. Will this “140 MPH” bus be nuclear powered? And take up two lanes (IYKYK)?

  28. The reason $150 billion has been spent and pockets have been lined including politicians and not one train car manufactured and not one city block of rail laid is because the ignorance of people like 1990. Just give us another $150 billion and we “promise” (no guarantees of course) to get it done. The problem isn’t the crooked politicians, it’s the voters that have a choice and chose this.

  29. @George Romey

    You are 100% correct sir and actually repeat what I said in my initial thread. Pointless to discuss any further, the facts are what the facts are and they are undeniable. The voters of this state let this happen. I was not one of those who jumped on the bandwagon.

  30. @Mike P — So, nihilism and chaos from you. Same-ole, same-ole. Lame.

    @George Romey — All you guys got is calling others silly names on here, which, agreed, is circular, and sad, because it solves nothing.

    @D Fray — It is a good day, and you’re always welcome here (well, technically, it’s Gary’s site, though he’s a mensch to host us all, no doubt.)

  31. Since we all care about corruption, and preventing ‘waste, fraud, and abuse,’ may we please begin and continue actual non-partisan, independent audits of public projects, including these, but also, especially this administration, the Pentagon, and all states, blue, red, purple, to ensure no kickbacks to those involved, no excessive overages to no-bid contract buddies, like, say, in DC, for the unauthorized $1 billion ballroom, or the Lincoln Memorial ‘pool,’ or the… @George Romey, you’ve ‘opened the door’ to a lot of overdue accountability!

  32. So yes, trains around mountainous California through very rural regions is a colossal waste of time, labor or money.

    On a constructive angle, look at Greece, where there was a merger/acquisition of Aegean buying Olympic air. — If you think about population distribution level at a more abstract level, California is actually pretty similar to an achipelago.

    Instead of trying to buy hundreds of billions of dollars of right of way in one of the most expensive parts of the world to do so, the government could take a fraction of that money and could subsidize intra-state flights. So instead of $58-63 one way day-of on five carriers from the Bay Area’s 3-4 airports to LA’s five, it gets a government subsidy to be $38-43. Especially with the cost of gas and air fuel going up, this would get people onto a far more efficient mode of transport to get with uber distance of their destination.

    I’m not against high speed trains. In fact, I live in Germany where the debate about getting 200km/hr trains to 250 or 300km/hr is an open topic every time elections come around.

    But when SNCF – the French national train operator – the operator of the TGV, says “California is too dysfunctional, we’re going to leave this project and build trains and tracks in Morocco, which have subsequently already been completed.

    So Californians need to come to terms that they can’t do new infrastructure like they used to, and it probably makes sense to rely on the things that work and are fairly stable markets price-wise (intra-state aviation) than create a mode of transportation that is out of date from day one.

    This is said with 19 years of lived experience with California. There are so many better initiatives to spend money on than a route to get from SF-LA in more time and costing more money than a $60 flight departing 5-6x per day.

    Just saying,

    Eric

  33. @ 1990 Just stop. You have become a running joke. No one respects your Bernie Sanders / Gavin Newsom cringe and grifter ways. You’re just that old, weird, creepy dude from the Village who smells bad and reeks of deviant behavior. It’s over.

  34. I’m here to see people defend a graft-infused, incompetently designed and managed “high speed train to nowhere.”

  35. @Speaking for the People, and We All Agree – So you agree with yourself. Congratulations I guess. Also good to know that your oracular powers enable you to know what everyone is thinking. Oh wait, you’re projecting heavily. Maybe you shouldn’t give up the Thorazine just yet.

  36. @Christian — Still hoping to hear some better ideas on here.

    @Eric M Boromisa — So, the German says: ‘give up.’ That’s not a ‘plan’ to solve this, finish the train, or decide how to close out the project, though. Wild to look to Greece for how to run an airline. The loss of Olympic (an actual long-haul national carrier) was a travesty. Aegean is a regional carrier at best. Sure, Greece as a country has come a long way since its debt crisis, but California’s state economy is like 14x larger!) The reality is that California (and other states) can and should complete projects like this, but they keep finding ways to not do so. Is it really just ‘corruption,’ or are certain industries fighting to prevent it. Perhaps, airlines and the automotive industry don’t want this or other rail projects to actually happen…

    @Thing 1 — Much bigger corruption and graft coming from White House, and yet… we also just ‘let it happen,’ it seems, so, once more, what ideas do you have, or just more mocking?

    @Speaking for the People, and We All Agree — LOL. Got it. More mocking.

  37. @1990
    You di know that the approved 50 billion bond for the high speed rail in CA (so it costs taxpayers double with interest) was from San Francisco to …Bakersfield – a couple hour drive from the major population center in Los Angeles. They should just stop at San Francisco to San Jose – both significant population centers. It was never going to be used by the 2/3 of the State population in Southern CA and was a political boondoggle to get Federal funding. Better to be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt.

  38. @Martin Kovalsky — The goal has always been SF-LA, like BOS-NYC-DC, and elsewhere. The idea is still valid. Execution has not been good. Will #47 need to call-in the Chinese to actually get this done, because it seems like they’re the only ones actually doing HSR anymore. Sure, we could coordinate with our European allies, but I think he’s alienated us from the French, Italians, Germans, Swiss, Austrians, and especially the Spanish, all of which know their choo-choos.

  39. I think that the empty overhead bins is on purpose. People get off of the airplane slower if they have to get their roller bags out of the overhead bin. Maybe the passengers exit quicker so the turn around is quicker.

  40. Will the 140 mph buses explode if they go less than 50 mph? I think I recollect something like that before, maybe around 1994…

  41. @Denver Refugee – Just dont have a driver named “Shoulders” and all will be fine.

  42. California’s high-speed rail situation is a classic example of overcomplicating a problem that already has a practical solution.
    Why are we trying to carve brand-new rail corridors through mountains, dense urban centers, and some of the most expensive real estate in the country? Between land acquisition, environmental reviews, and engineering challenges, it’s no surprise the costs have spiraled out of control and timelines continue to slip.
    Meanwhile, California already has one of the most extensive and well-developed highway systems in the world. Instead of fighting geography and property markets, why not take advantage of infrastructure that’s already there?
    A far more efficient approach would be to build an elevated rail system within existing freeway corridors—something conceptually similar to a scaled, high-speed version of the Disneyland monorail. Large concrete pillars could support dual tracks above the median, running in both directions, with stations placed at logical transit hubs along the route. This would largely eliminate the need for land acquisition and avoid the costly and time-consuming process of grading new rail beds across the state.
    Yes, there are engineering tradeoffs. Freeway alignments weren’t designed for 200 mph trains, so speeds would likely be reduced in certain sections due to turning radiuses and elevation changes. But that’s a reasonable compromise if it means dramatically lowering costs and accelerating construction timelines. A system that runs slightly slower but actually gets built is far more valuable than a “perfect” system that never materializes.
    Instead, we’ve chosen the most complex path imaginable—tunneling deep below cities, navigating earthquake faults, and dealing with methane zones—all at extraordinary cost per mile. After tens of billions of dollars committed, we’re left with a segment between Merced and Bakersfield that doesn’t meaningfully connect the state’s major population centers.
    At some point, the question needs to be asked: are we optimizing for ideal specifications on paper, or for delivering a functional transportation system people can actually use?
    There’s nothing radical about the idea of leveraging existing corridors—it’s simply a more pragmatic way to approach infrastructure. California doesn’t lack ambition or vision. What it often lacks is the willingness to pursue simpler, more cost-effective solutions when they’re right in front of us.

  43. @D Fray — Thank you for sharing actual ideas on this. It does come down to perfect vs. good enough. To secure political votes and satisfy local interests, the rail authority wrongly bypassed direct, cheaper highway corridors in favor of complex, indirect detours. California can still salvage this with pragmatism. You (and others) may appreciate Wendover’s latest video on the topic:

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