When the United States was attacked in 9/11, it responded – both rationally, to take out terrorism infrastructure in Afghanistan, and irrationally against Iraq and in cracking down on Muslims in this country. Perhaps close to 400,000 civilians were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan as a result. That’s tragic. It’s also common in war. Around 20,000 French civilians were killed just by Allied bombings during the invasion of Normandy during World War II.
Here are some basic propositions that I believe about the current crisis in Gaza.
- Israel has a right to exist and defend itself from attack. It should minimize civilian harm while doing so.
- Hamas, which subjugates Palestinians and hides amongst them using them as human shields, sought to provoke Israel as they were on the verge of normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia. There’s a human tragedy in Gaza, largely at the feet of Hamas – which continues to steal what little aid has arrived. They believe their position is strengthened through the visible suffering of Palestinians.
- The Palestinian leadership has consistently turned down two state solutions that have given them nearly everything they’ve asked for – as more militant groups such as Hamas have made compromise impossible. Their goal is destruction of Israel and cannot afford normalized relations. Under any of the offers made by Israel in the last 24 years, the Palestinian people would have been better off.
The last great Israeli leader of peace was Ehud Olmert who offered 94% of the West Bank, with pre-1967 buffer zones split in half and a land swap of the balance from pre-1967 borders (involving land Israel acquired for its security after it was invaded). While Israel would exit small settlements in these areas, their own politics would not allow them to exit Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim and Ariel hence the need for land swap, giving up land near Afula-Tirat Tzvi, Lachish, Har Adar, Judean desert.
The Ehud Olmert offer, developed with the Palestinian Authority over two years, included ceding sovereignty over the holy basin in Jerusalem which includes sites of importance to Muslims, Christians and Jews – to be jointly administered by a group of nations including the Palestinian state. And they offered an international fund for Palestinians. Palestine would have been precluded from entering into a military agreement with a government that does not recognize Israel
Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin was assassinated for offering much less. Yet Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas rejected the deal. Hamas attacked Israel. Criticism of the current Israeli administration needs to be coupled with an understanding of the fear that creates it.
- I’m not sure what the end game is here. There can’t be peace while Hamas remains. Palestinians would be better off without them, for generations to come. Other Arab nations could step up in the interim but that’s a heavy lift. These are complex problems, while American protestors play-act as being oppressed themselves.
Hello Muddah, hello Faddah
Here I am at Camp Intifada pic.twitter.com/zUo4oof3qd— Fuzzy Chimp (@fuzzychimpcom) May 2, 2024
UChicago encampment requests Plan B, HIV tests and dental dams, per a post on the organizers' Instagram pic.twitter.com/EEbzLqraMX
— Gabby Deutch (@GSDeutch) May 2, 2024
As Senator John Fetterman (D-PA) writes, “Want peace in Gaza? Where are the campus protests demanding Hamas to take this ceasefire deal? Tents and chants won’t end this, but Hamas could.” There are still five Americans hostages held taken by Hamas who are believed to be alive (several have been confirmed dead). We should be calling for their unconditional release.
Sara Nelson, president of the largest flight attendants union (which represents cabin crew at United Airlines, among others, and is trying to organize at Delta) has came out for the protestors on Friday.
It is disturbing to once again witness violent crackdowns on students protesting for peace. Our union unequivocally condemns mass arrests on college campuses and the attacks against peaceful protestors. We stand in solidarity with the students, student workers, and faculty who are exercising their constitutional rights to assembly and protest. We condemn violence and hate in all its forms.
…A strike is a form of protest. Our labor movement was built by those who were willing to risk being arrested, beaten and even killed to exercise that right. To see the power of the state turned against protestors reminds us of the darkest days of our movement, when workers were arrested, beaten and even gunned down in places like Ludlow, Cumberland, Chicago, Homestead, Flint, and many more.
Students at George Washington University held a ‘peoples’ trial’ on Friday seeking “to hang their provost and chop the heads off of the Board of Trustees?”
Guillotine, Guillotine, Guillotine, Guillotine
At Johns Hopkins University a grad student was assaulted and events were blocked from being held and moved for safety. Another was punched in the head at Berkeley. Protestors have called for Jews to become the victims of Hamas, and for Jews to be excluded from campuses.
Sara Nelson is backing chants of “Say it loud, say it clear, we don’t want no Zionists here” and “Zionists don’t deserve to live.” Or a sign saying that the next target of Hamas’s military wing should be a group of Jews on campus:
There’s a first amendment right to protest against the government, and government-run universities are obliged to honor that right. People can protest in public, no matter how vile their message. I long for the days when the ACLU held to core beliefs and advocated for the right of Nazis to march at Skokie because free expression only matters when it protects ideas that you loathe.
However this does not include taking over facilities and disrupting classes, damaging property and harming others. Sara Nelson either doesn’t understand the difference or is intentionally obtuse about it as she jockeys for accolades among ‘the groups’ of influence within her party.
She’s a joke, and just looking, as you stated correctly, to get accolades from the radical left. Politician “activist”.
Btw – “Camp Intifada” form that tweet made me laugh. These people are so so baphoonish, on so many levels that it is astounding.
I think it makes sense that the leader of this union would be aligned with Hamas. They actually have something in common. Both the flight attendants union and hamas are willing to throw their own people under the bus when “negotiating”. Both the FAs and citizens of Gaza could be living much better lives today if only their leadership would allow it.
Actually a very good recap of events. Although I don’t like this political stuff in boaridngarea , I agree with the article.
Sara Nelson is pure trash. A disgrace to the profession and the travel industry
Are you that uneducated on the matter Mr. Leff? Or are you being disingenuous? It has to be one of those. You seem like a rational person. I know you’re educated. It would help you and your audience to write about subjects you are familiar with. Otherwise it will sound like you are repeating old mainstream narratives, with what intention, a reader can only assume.
@Arj – attacking me personally, not the argument, makes clear that you have nothing substantive to offer and that what i’ve written stands..
I missed that “crackdown” on Muslims here in the US after 9/11. I thought we acted well domestically. If I am wrong, can you provide facts to support this assertion.
@Paul O’Brien – see no fly lists, fbi blackmail of muslims to become informants on their mosques, travel bans
for avoidance of doubt not as widespread as japanese internment during WWII, but still notable and sad
Just how many protesters are stating that Zionists don’t deserve to live? The mass of protests I’ve been following have been for divestment of funds from Israel as long as Israel remains an apartheid state. While I’ll grant you that that’s not an effective tactic it’s certainly not calling for more deaths. Are there a few fringe lunatics in this just as with anything else? Absolutely. But it’s disingenuous to pretend that most of the protesters are advocating violence when that’s simply not the case.
the good little campus fascists’ and supporters doing their best to make Adolf smile in Hell.
I know the traditional saying was of the Arabs 6 NOs for a Palestine state. with current events its up to at least 9 NOs
@christian
Then why are the protests solely against Israel and not for the release of hostages and surrender of the rapists and torturers from Oct 6. If the criminals gave themselves up, the war would end immediately.
Great summary of events! Perhaps this should be sent to the protesters that most likely don’t understand what they’re protesting and lack understanding of the true situation in the region. The university presidents need to grow a pair and punish those people who are violating laws such as breaking into buildings and bullying Jewish students. They have a right to protest but they don’t have a right to violate the law.
So this was purportedly a post about Sara Nelson’s support of pro Palestinian, anti war protesters (or antisemitic terrorists in your view) and you wrote about a dozen lines that tangentially related to her support. And about 4 dozen lines laying out your position on the war, which you have related ad nauseum for the past 7 months. We get it, Palestine bad, Israel good, no matter what they do.
Please just stop. Everyone who reads your blog knows where you stand; you don’t need to keep finding excuses to repeat it over and over and over again. You have done your duty to your religious brethren, you can rest now.
@beachfan – What does that have to do with divestment, which is what the vast majority of students are protesting for? If you want to know WHY they choose not to protest for what you think, go ask them. I’m simply stating what they choose to protest about.
“ When the United States was attacked in 9/11, it responded – both rationally, to take out terrorism infrastructure in Afghanistan, and irrationally against Iraq and in cracking down on Muslims in this country”
The blunder of invading and occupying Iraq began with a crackdown down on Muslims and Christians in the country by taking aim at the relatively secular dictatorship of Saddam Hussein which had allied more secular Sunni Muslims with Christians in order to keep in check the Iranian vector they kept believing would come via Iraqi Shias and fundamentalist Sunnis backed by the Saudis and other Gulf Arabs.
The Afghan adventure also began irrationally, but we never starved and dehydrated most Afghan women and children.
Well, what @Christian is saying is of course just nonsense. Not true. In almost every such “student” “protests” (large number are not students, nor faculty, but outsiders to campuses) they chant, write on – many – signs for “Intifada” (which is violent “resistance”).
I’m not even mentioning the fact that almost every speaker at such events hails the 7/10 attacks, and/or wishes more in the future.
One might think this is just (as evil does think it is in the right of course), but to say that this is not encouraging violence is not serious. Not to speak of the actual domestic violence applied by the “protesters” at some campuses (“occupying” halls, buildings etc.)
Sara Nelson is a cancer on the aviation industry, and like most cancers, it needs be excised as soon as possible.
And without a formal vote by the union, it is wholly improper for her to give the impression that the union has put its imprimatur on her hate speech
Writing “Pro-Hamas” proves you’re a demagogue.
“@Paul O’Brien – see no fly lists, fbi blackmail of muslims to become informants on their mosques, travel bans”?
Of the many Muslim Americans and other Muslim residents of the country whom I know to have lived in the US before and during 9/11, I am pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of them would say that the Bush Admin treated Muslims in the US way better than the Netanyahu regime treats Palestinians in the Israeli-Occupied Territories and even the Israeli Muslims and other Israeli Arabs in Israel.
Unlike Netanyahu, Bush has never been an anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racist. And I say that as a supporter of the initial US invasion of Afghanistan and an opponent of the Iraq invasion (which eventually took place in 2003) from even before November 2001. Yes, November 2001 — not just from the fall of 2002 — and thereafter. More than 21 years have gone since the GWB invasion of Iraq, and we still have troops at military bases in Iraq. And yet no rational Muslim in America would ever choose to settle in Israel under a Netanyahu regime instead of living under a Bush Admin.
Thanks, Gary. An article like this is bound to provoke criticism, but rational analysis is badly needed here. While the Israeli government is far from perfect (as is our own), I have yet to talk with someone who is vocal in favor of the Palestinians and can offer any suggestion for what Israel should do to keep their citizens safe from an organization that is outspoken about their extermination. There are no easy answers to such a complex situation, and a bunch of spoiled 19-year-olds play acting as revolutionaries most certainly isn’t going to fix anything. The progressive left’s sudden obsession with them is both bizarre and unproductive.
Lets see if any of her union members have the guts to oust her. I am sure there are lots of Jewish FAs and I have yet to see any wearing burkas. Also many from Southern states which do not support this crap.
Unfortunately union leadership often takes political positions that are not supported by members. There is not much they can do except dump membership and even then may have to pay a representation fee.
How is condeming Zionism antisemitic? Most zionists are non-Jews.
Anyone with an ounce of curiosity and who makes some honest and serious effort would realize that a not insignificant portion of the anti-war protesters at or around US college/university campuses are Jewish. And yet they too are wrongly being said to be “anti-semitic” and “pro-Hamas” even as the non-Jewish anti war protesters with them were recently celebrating Jewish traditions.
The idea that Sara Nelson is antisemitic and pro-Hamas seems to be just irrational hyperbole to bash on unions and anti-war, anti-ethnic cleansing and anti-genocide protesters all at the same time while trying to smear them all with a brush that isn’t generally applicable to them.
@GUWonder – ‘I have many friends who are Jewish’ is not a defense against antisemitism any more than ‘I have many friends who are black’ is a shield against charges of racism. That said, I have no idea whether Sara Nelson is antisemitic. I did not claim she was. I also have no idea whether she’s pro-Hamas, or merely posturing, I said only that she put out a statement in support of others who are supporting Hamas.
The first priority of any university is to educate the students. Personally I believe ALL protesters on college campuses need to wear a lanyard with their student IDs. Any protestor that is NOT a student is trespassing and should be removed by the police and arrested
@GUWonder “I am pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of them would say that the Bush Admin treated Muslims in the US way better than the Netanyahu regime treats Palestinians in the Israeli-Occupied Territories and even the Israeli Muslims and other Israeli Arabs in Israel.”
Much of the worst treatment of Muslims actually happened during the Obama administration, but the comparison here is inapt. There’s no question that living in the U.S. is better than living in Gaza. The lives of Palestinians there would be far better without Hamas. And Netanyahu is in many ways a reaction to Hamas, the reason we no longer have Israeli leaders courting peace (that the Palestinian Authority never accepted).
@GUWonder – you like to think of yourself as a person with above-average education on many worldly matters (and following the comments here for many years – it’s probably true). But, he fails when a certain issue requires a bit more than skin deep knowledge.
Your lack of knowledge around the Israeli-Arab conflict is ignorant on a multidimensional level. One of those levels is the history of Jewish auto-anti-semitism, history of anti-semitism at large (including, how it has used current political conflicts to wrap itself into), and from the comments I’ve seen in the past from you – and ignored – probably the history of the Jewish people in general.
To the point of “Jewish protesters” – they are a small minority of Jews (very small) and represent the same phenomena that has always existed (again, multidimensional level of ignorance).
But, the comment section of VFTW is not going to be a medium to have a serious discussion. So, I’ll end here, with one more comment:
To say they are simply “anti-war” is flat out wrong. Not true. They are against this war. If, for example, Arab nations or Iran attacked Israel – they are all for it, and if the US govt in another reality supported that – of course they support it. In fact, they cheered as Iran shot missiles at Israel. As the vast majority of them support 7/10, and call for future 7/10. For those people, “ethnic cleansing” = justice, and “genocide” = resistance. These are not “anti-war” people, and in fact a lot of them support many wars happening right now, for example, the Putin war on Ukraine (since Putin is in their eyes a counter to US Imperialism).
My student from Gaza (Palestinian-American) has had 23 members of his family murdered in their homes. Standing up for these innocent victims of Israeli policy is not pro-Hamas. Don’t you dare call my protests againt the innocent killings of civilians pro-Hamas. Over 30,000 civilians have been murdered in Gaza. This is a genocide. (sidenote: I am a historian and teach a class on eugenics and the Holocaust).
@jeff – “Over 30,000 civilians have been murdered in Gaza.”
Gaza Ministry of Health does not break out civilians and of course many ostensible civilians work alongside Hamas (whether willingly or by force)
Hamas is morally culpable for those deaths, for perpetrating October 7th and hiding amongst civilians using them as human shields (and of course stealing their aid)
You must not be a particularly good historian if you call this genocide. “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.” Hamas does intend to cleanse the land of Jews. There is no such intent of the Israeli government. This would end tomorrow with Hamas’ surrender. And what sort of evidence of genocide is there when Palestinian population in the region has consistently grown?
@Gary – Yeah, I don’t think user “Jeff” is actually an historian, or has a “student from Gaza” (btw, the number of “23” attached to “family members killed” has been repeated many times in Pro-Terrorist social media and other media – just Google “23” and “Gaza family members” and you’ll see how many stories there are about “23 family members” LOL). It’s likely someone trying to play propaganda by making a seemingly personal story type comment (and they got the “23” number from the media reporting the propaganda stories).
All I needed to know about the protestors I learned when one of them at Vanderbilt called 911 for a tampon. Send in the police full on. Rubber bullets, tear gas and a few K-9s for good measure. I told my wife the other night I hoped at least part of my tax dollars (and I paid 6 figures last year) went to arming Israel.
@Dude26 – Look up the facts rather than Fox News – which despite the name specifically stated that they are not a news network and therefore have no obligation to report facts – and you’ll see that the vast majority of protests in the USA are about divestment.
I wish more people understood your views on Gaza. If you’re an American, I really can’t understand how you would rationally believe the Palestinian people will be better off if Hamas remains in power. Certainly, the American people will not be better off because there can’t really be peace in the Mideast until Hamas is gone. At the same time, there is nothing particularly “heroic” about the Palestinian struggle: time and again, they have irrationally chosen more self-defeating violence instead of peace. As they still do today. To be a non-Muslim Western supporter of measures that will keep Hamas in power is simply foolish and naive.
@Christian – Not American, and do not watch Fox News. You can say what you want (based on what? Which agenda-biased information are you receiving?) – it’s just not true. Repeating it (and having some gullible people believe it as well) does not make it true.
Netanyahu has kept Hamas In power. Hamas is Netanyahu and the Israeli right-wing’s Frankenstein to a substantial degree.
Barbaric violence against unarmed civilians empowers right wing extremists, just as the hardline right-wingers like it. And that goes just as much for Hamas’ barbarism as it does for Israel’s barbarism. It didn’t have to be this way, but the Netanyahu regime decided to be barbaric toward civilians considered to be “the other” and chose to behave like rogue actors behaving in a way that invites war crime charges. Hamas has always been a rogue actor by nature, but Israel didn’t have to be.
What are we talking about regarding Olmert as Israeli prime minister? He hasn’t been in the picture for over a decade and also has been convicted for corruption. The current prime minister refuses to recognize Gaza and the West Bank’s right to exist. Yeah, right to exist as occupied Israeli territory doesn’t count.
The problem is that hot weather causes hot tempers and acting crazy. Hamas is crazy, no question. Israel doesn’t mind killing anyone as part of collective punishment for Hamas. They probably love flattening everyone’s house. Israel acted like a bunch of terrorists when they destroyed Gaza’s only airport awhile ago. How would you like it if Putin flattened JFK Airport?
The better solution is hated by both sides. That solution would be for Israel to withdraw to 1948 borders or pay compensation to all landowners for land taken over between 1948 and 1967 and withdraw to 1967 borders. Both sides would then have a contract such that if Gaza launches missiles into Israel and destroys a building, then Israel flattens a building in Gaza. For every citizen that Hamas kidnapped or killed, Israel would have the right to execute the same number of Gazans.
The shallow are blind in the presence of depth and see shallowness even where it doesn’t exist. Next issue, dude(26).
It seems like half of Gary Leff’s posts these days are more political than travel-oriented. And the attempts to make them seem even-handed are fooling no one.
It has literally turned me away from this site, since I can read almost all of the true travel material elsewhere, and I avoid it, except to occasionally point out how far it has fallen.
Queue the ‘whataboutism’.
Dude26 is “Jewish auto-anti-semitism” defined if he’s Jewish and calling out other Jewish persons as “self-hating Jews” for not being on the right-wing “Israel can do no/little wrong” bandwagon meant to silence critics of his favorites in power.
@Jeff, 30k gazans have not been murdered, certainly some are innocent victims but these are war casualties as a direct result of Hamas cowardly actions using innocents as human Shields, hiding in schools. Mosques, hospitals, etc. Palestinians need to figure out quick that Hamas is not their friend. Just using them while their leadership lives the good life in Qatar.
Back on subject another great reason not to fly AA.
“Palestinian population in the region has consistently grown”?
It hasn’t in the last several months, and it won’t in Gaza given how many women and children have been killed there in the last 7 months.
The majority of the people killed in Gaza in the past seven months have been women and children. Men killed there have been disproportionately elderly. They have primarily been killed by Israeli security forces firing of weapons and those fired weapons being use for Israel’s willful destruction of food and potable water supply systems in Gaza and the deliberate targeting of health care facilities and health care personnel in Gaza.
@GUWonder – Disappointingly, your retorts show that indeed your knowledge is very, very skin deep.
This is an example:
“Dude26 is “Jewish auto-anti-semitism” defined if he’s Jewish and calling out other Jewish persons as “self-hating Jews” for not being on the right-wing “Israel can do no/little wrong” bandwagon meant to silence critics of his favorites in power”
Hmm, no. Auto-anti-semitism is a phenomena described and discussed by Jewish scholars for many years, well before the re-creation of Israel in modern times (so definitely before “right wing extermist” etc etc). And, the characteristics of it – as described and discussed for many years in an internal Jewish world are spot on a fit to these people, which is why they represent such a tiny minority of the Jewish people.
This is just not serious. Disappointing, but not surprising. As I said – you have a multidimensional lack of knowledge on this issue. And, if someone *fairly* familiar with history such as you are baited into propaganda, then indeed it’s not surprising to see others, which are far less knowledgable get radicalized.
“Much of the worst treatment of Muslims actually happened during the Obama administration, but the comparison here is inapt.”? Not really. The worst post-9/11 US federal government treatment of innocent Muslims in the US occurred during the Bush Admin. The situation got significantly better during the Obama Admin even as there were policies and practices that were bad then too (and at least a couple of policies that were more hostile toward them than during the Bush Admin.
Dude26, I was talking about your “Jewish auto-anti-semitism” if you were to be Jewish. Just you.
“Radicalized”? It’s the right-wing antiwar-haters that are the true radicals and are radicalized as demonstrated by calling for police brutality on top of cheering what “pro-Israel” “counter-protesters” did to anti-war protesters who were encamped at UCLA.
@GUWonder – Again, Not serious. You take a historic and profound phenomena (which you are not even aware of) and weaponize it as a “gotcha” in an attempt to ‘win’ and ‘score against the other’.
I think we can end here, but happy to go on if you wish. I do think it’s pointless.
Again, the comment section of VFTW is not going to be a place to change anyone’s mind obviously.
Sara Nelson and her friends like to ignore the events of Oct 7th, did she protest AGAINST the actions of Hamas that day? Guess not, maybe she thinks some murders are ok.
Fun facts:
When students demonstrated for Civil Rights: they were mocked and hated by the majority. Years later, they were lionised.
When students demonstrated for the end of the Vietnam War: they were mocked and hated by the majority. Years later, they were lionised.
When students demonstrated against Apartheid South Africa: they were mocked and hated by the majority. Years later, they were lionised.
When students demonstrated against the 2003 Iraq War: they were mocked and hated by the majority. Years later, they were lionised.
When students today demonstrated against Israel’s massacre in Gaza: they are mocked and hated by the majority. Years later, they will be lionised.
Good try … except , don’t forget that many of these protesters are Not students … they are outside people who orchestrate the uninformed and emotional .
Many of them do not have good manners , nor cleanliness . Most effective way to clear demonstrators is to spray them with deodorant .