India has a population equal in size to China. However it isn’t nearly as significant economically or geopolitically. It hasn’t experienced China’s growth. India’s economy is about one fifth the size. And even on a purchasing power parity basis the average Indian is about 60% poorer than the average resident of China.
They don’t think they need foreign flights to improve commerce and bring down costs. They’d rather protect their homegrown oligarchs.
In the early 1990s, facing a debt crisis and stagnant economy, India partially liberalized, doing away with many business licensing and protectionist regimes. They nearly doubled economic growth, from a low base, and averted national bankruptcy.
However the lesson of the early 90s seems to have been forgotten under Prime Minister Modi, as exemplified by India’s decision not to allow foreign airlines to add more flights.
India dampened foreign airline hopes for more access to its airports on Tuesday, with its aviation minister urging domestic carriers to fly long-haul and help establish new hubs as it seeks to recapture control of Indian travel from foreign rivals.
…India was not looking at increasing air traffic quotas with Gulf states and instead wanted Indian carriers to offer non-stop long haul flights on larger planes. He said Air India’s widebody plane order and IndiGo’s twin-aisles to some destinations were signs that “transition” had begun.
Perhaps Ironically Named Gateway Of India, Mumbai
According to India’s Minister of Civil Aviation, he has determined that the country must have “a hub within India” and not just on its Eastern and Western borders, and goes so far as to describe airline operations as “my” hubs rather than those of the airlines, suggesting the role the Indian state expects to play in aviation despite having privatized Air India. It also seems like an odd take considering Delhi isn’t on one of the country’s borders.
Air India has placed one of the largest aircraft orders in history buying planes over several years that represent several points of India’s GDP in a single year. And they aim to protect India’s largest conglomerate, Tata Group.
- More flights, especially from Emirates and also other Gulf carriers, would bring more choices to Indian consumers, increase competition, and lower fares.
- More seats in the market would mean more travel in and out of India, which is good for commerce and tourism. It would also support more cargo (trade).
- It would make it easier for Indian citizens, who are poor, to travel. It would make it easier to obtain foreign employment and send remittances home.
Along every conceivable dimension, more flights from more airlines benefits the Indian economy and its people generally. The owners of domestic Indian airlines do not benefit, and politicians who depend on them for support and favors do not.
(HT: @istrakhov)
About most airline travel propositions I’m not squeamish or hesitant. But I do not, and never will, board an Indian-operated aircraft. Full stop.
I would never consider flying on Air-India.
– The Indian government is not looking to relax capacity controls because it wants to recapture air traffic lost to foreign/Gulf carriers
– When he says my hubs he means as a traveling person – maybe that is lost in translation to a western reader. He’s not talking about the state.
– The Emirates of the world are knocking as India despite being one-fifth of China, is the 6th largest economy in the world and will overtake the UK this year
It’s a big market – aviation or otherwise – and everyone’s a knocking. They are going to be careful.
Interesting, thanks Gary ! Do I recall that you had recently posted a related article, about the difficulty in servicing flights between North America and India, due to the closure of the Polar Route over Russia ? Clearly this has a negative impact on the interest level and availability of North American Carriers servicing India. As it stands now, my understanding is that Russia allows carriers from only China, the Middle East, and India to overfly Russian territory (and it appears that they all do). A quick airfare search also unveiled all of the other usual International suspects, which I assume are servicing India on longer routes with potentially multiple connections. In any event, the statements coming out of India appear to be future based (ie: they prefer to grow their Flag Carriers, by freezing slots to the existing International Carriers). If so (and per Tom’s comments a lot of potential India Tourists won’t fly Indian carriers), my guess is that they’ll fold like a cheap lawn chair and once again welcome more International carriers. Stay tuned, tourism money is going to drive this issue.
This refers specifically to Gulf carriers, not all international carriers. For example, the US and India have an Open Skies agreement. Gulf carriers have become de-facto India-US and India-Europe carriers.
Yeah, that’s one of the countries on my list of “no go” ‘aircraft operated’ and/or ‘aircraft registered with countries’.
I agree that protectionism usually impoverishes the country practising it, and obviously will in this case. However, it’s hardly as if the US doesn’t practice extensive protectionism within its airline industry, and elsewhere. Just today it’s reported that Biden is trying to ban some foreign airlines from flying to the USA. Fortunately many of these measures don’t last too long and are forgotten when the political expediency fades.
I have no desire to visit India. But this is a classic case of competition is always good, unless you are the one that has the monopoly that will be broken.
@NB – that is bad too! But we’re wealthy enough as a society that we can pursue bad, wealth-destroying policies that benefit special interests without doing as much damage since U.S. GDP per capita is higher than $2,250.
The BJP (mainly uinder Modi) was the party that liberalized the Indian economy. It was the old Congress Party (Gandhi) that ossified the economy and set it permanently behind China from a roughly equal 1960 start. The BJP has done a lot to fix that.
These measures are retrogressive (Modi is not even allowing Indians to use point.me to choose flights lest they choose foreign carriers) but they are a blemish, not the focal direction.
Ah Gary, all good things.
But India is a republican we’re dream:
2% own everything, 3% middle class
(so voiceless) and 95% extremely poor (so extremely voiceless).
Not much different than when they had British overlords so they’re going to take care of the billionaires first.
US republicans have wet dreams about turning America into India
That’s what making America “great” again really means…..
Curious why the hesitation to fly on an India registered aircraft? Does India have substandard airplane safety regulations? Honest question.
India has long been hostile to foreign players competing with the local ruling class’s favorites, but nowadays it’s only selectively protectionist.
India is no longer the functioning liberal democracy of yesteryears. It’s been turned into an increasingly fascist state — a state led by right-wing Hindu populists whose ideologues, having long admired Hitler, have turned secular India into a twisted Hindu version of Pakistan. And that’s all while those zealots somehow also manage to admire Israel since they have the intent to do in and around India what Israel has been doing in and around Israel.
@JorgeGeorge Paez, You’re neither correct about India nor about Republicans. May you should start learning a thing or two before opening your mouth. This fits you very well – “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”
All countries use flying rights for leverage/negotiation chips, especially with countries which own airlines (read them as middle eastern). Looking the rights just with capitalism lens is dumb, especially if the airlines are owned by countries.
Also, I appreciate if you correct “Indians, who are poor” statement , as it generalized us all.
US, Australia, New Zealand all does the same with flying rights. Sole aim of the rights is not getting fares lower.
L3 is ill-informed (and unsurprising spreading misinformation) about who started India’s current wave of liberalization.
India’s economic liberalization was done by the Congress Party (I) under PM Rao on the urging from fellow Congress Party members Manmohan Singh and Chidambaram. The Congress Party and the BJP were both very protectionist, but the Congress Party had to take a new direction when India had a major balance of payments problem with then insufficient foreign currency reserves. That new direction toward economic liberalization was a result of Manmohan Singh and Ahluwalia. The BJP is riding the economic wave that was starter by the Congress Party’s forced change of direction. PM Vajpayee carried on with that course.
Indian airline passengers got a boost from ModiLuft. Remember SK Modi? The Luft part was for Lufthansa as a collaboration partner.
So Delta whining about ME3 ok but this not ok?
Your hypocrisy is showing.
For the record, I don’t care either way if Air India gets protection but it’s funny/sad to see how “experts” can’t hide their biases.
Such a negative and biased article. The author’s intentions are nothing but to paint an poor impression about India especially when he calls Fifth largest economy Geopolitically insignificant.
Airlines are difficult business and India’s regulations somehow have always favoured foreign carriers it is good to see the government encouraging its own companies.
I will fly air India only…superb food and services.
What a stupid ignorant article. The USA is far more protectionist than India. Most of the traffic to India is now being carried by foreign airlines and not by Indian airline companies. It only makes sense to allow Indian airline companies to get some parody especially now that Air India has become privatized.
All you have to do is look at the number of flights that Emirates has to India versus Indian airline companies to UAE.
One thing I would want the Indian government to do is ban these late-night flights to India where these other countries maximize the use of the planes by sending them to India at ungodly hours.
Gary I think you should just shut the about things you don’t know about.
Talk of protectionism. Were n’t the US big 3 crying foul about the ME3 being subsidised by their oil rich sheikhdoms? Recently there was some talk in US avgeeks that airlines overflying Rooskie air space should be chastised some how. What s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander..
Gary, thoughts on the recent asks by US airlines to the US government to “protect” them from non-US flagged carriers using Russian airspace for US flights?
If anyone here is betting against Tata and Air India, you will eat your words in 5 years. If you don’t know Tata runs Taj Hotels. They were original owners of Air India when it was considered world’s best airlines. It will be back amongst the best. India not only has “poor” like the ignorant white man who wrote this article points out. It has very high number of net worth families who are dying to venture out. Wait 5 years and if anyone who says “I will never fly indian airlines” – 1) they wont need you 2) you will be lucky to fly one!
Srini A: Don’t hold back! Lol!
India’s government increased the number of flights with middle eastern airlines by FOUR FOLD in 2013. Holding back further liberalization is totally reasonable.
***Every country is protectionist*** …Should India allowed to be further plundered by foreign companies or should Indian carries be given a chance at growth.
Gary is a puppet of the Middle Eastern airlines. They have a history of paying journalists to write favorable articles about the ME3.
The US and India together cut off the MEast carriers by agreeing to both not overflying Russia if neither can. If India won’t comply then the US tears up Open Skies. China cut US carriers way back to China and it still is not restored
Reading the comments here is quite an amusing exercise. Shows the open bias, hostility and above all half baked knowledge about India. Ahh the hubris we exhibit!
@FlyOften – Gary has called out US carriers for their campaigns against the ME3 numerous times.
@Tom good riddance, we don’t want white trash stinking up our Maharaja airline. Meant only for royalty.
Ignorant and biased article. Looks like a lot of Islamic leftists have also joined the comments. The article is just distasteful and like a cheap propoganda. The comment from one guy talking about hindu nationalist gov. and comparing Indian to Pakistan is definitely a jihadi who has beep deprived appeasement.
Certainly an article about with false information and may be someone who has a grudge or is too conditioned with certain idea of the world.
Never in the history of the globe India has been insignificant be it very recent british exploitation totalling 43 trillion plunder or other aggressions through 600 years. India survived, thrived and maintains its thousand year old traditions.
Yes there are flaws and shortcoming but no place in the world is perfect.
Now lets come to the moot question do you have any NPP or merger-acquisition or operational license application lying there which was rejected, despite fulfilling all conditions. If there is please come up with that. I will see that it is done.
Please dont spread stuff without backing documents.
In case you forget all countries claim to be liberal but all have their cloak and dagger schemes. Begin with analysis of sole rights of PAN AM to fly globally from US and no other.
Build a business and India is a good bet. This will bring profits and accolades. Articles like these will not survive in face of reality that India is better than most in Asia be it China (in terms of right) and nearby states.
Make a plan will support you as Supreme court lawyer but these articles
Gary I think you should just shut the about things you don’t know about. Nice comment @Srini.
Some facts here about India –
India is third largest and fastest growing aviation market in the world.
India is set to overtake Japan and Germany to become the world’s third-largest economy by 2030.
All these travel bloggers love ME3 bcos that’s all they can book with their stash of miles.
This guy has no clue on India and decided to write an article which is also rubbish like him!
This is actually a good post. It’s relevant and interesting and adds to the conversation. But India may soon get a taste of its own medicine when the U.S., and one would hope, EU, begins to ban flights that cross Russian airspace.
We will see how well Air India and others appreciate competitive restrictions. With my hope being that it gets extended to include airlines that serve Russian markets as well.
India is not banning foreign airlines outright, but demanding an opportunity in routes dominated by by foreign carriers at present, a belated attempt in airline democracy. ,Yo be an equal again.
India has already tried this (international long-haul) several times with Jet Airways, and (I believe) Kingfisher and it failed miserably. You couldn’t pay me enough money in the world to fly on any Indian-based airline. Those planes – especially Air India – are barely held together. No thank you!
I hope this doesn’t ruin Air India. I hear it’s so nice.
The fifth largest economy in the world is not significant economically or geopolitically? The author is an expert on miles, points but world economy and geopolitics doesn’t quite seem to be his strong suite
To the Tom above who says he’ll never fly on an “Indian operated aircraft” – bye Tom, you won’t be missed.
I sure hope he has a Cessna stored away somewhere because he may want to rethink stepping into a Boeing or Airbus aircraft any time soon.
Boeing is opening it’s largest r&d facility outside the US in India – a $200 million investment that will focus on design
Currently Tata Boeing Aerospace Limited (TBAL), based in Hyderabad, produces 777 uplock boxes, which are metallic structures that house the landing gear in retraction, as well as 777 vertical fins, which are structures designed to reduce aerodynamic side slips and provide direction stability.
In addition, there are hundreds of MSMEs involved in making aircraft parts such as winglets.
Dynamatic Technologies is a Tier 1 supplier for the assembly of Flap Track Beams (FTBs) for the Airbus 330 family of aircraft.
Aequs Aerospace is the largest supplier from India, providing machined parts, forgings and aerostructures both as a Tier 1 and Tier 2 supplier to Airbus.
HAHA this article is written by such an ignoramus. Rich countries are allowed to be as protectionist as they want while developing countries must pander to some western view of what is healthy protectionism and what isn’t, only because “their rich society” can afford it? The biggest chunk of India’s international air traffic is occupied by foreign airlines, and it is understandable to control that at a time when Indian airline companies are expanding/want to expand. Mr Travel Blogger, do you know why many imported fruits are seized by US Customs? It’s really the same principle.
Wow, taking potshots at a country (and it’s citizens) just because it does not allow more foreign airlines sounds a bit cheap and petty. The whole underlying tone of the article distractingly screams that the author has some kind of a chip on his shoulder.
What exactly is the correlation between allowing more foreign airlines and how wealthy the country or its citizens are? Is China’s growth because of the vast number of foreign airlines it allows access to? How do geopolitical realities play into this correlation? What about socio-cultural considerations? Are there any comparables cited to effectively make a point?
I have been a regular reader of this blog but now forced to reconsider it given the level this post has stooped to.
So as a ‘foremost expert’, the arguments is India is not as significant an economy as China and yet it chooses to protect is market. Excellent analysis. Except that its the exact way in which China protected its market (and continues to – even google and Facebook cannot operate there forget about others) and was able to grow its economy into the largest in the world. India today is the fastest growing major economy and expected to be so for the next decade! Oh by the way, Delhi airport has been voted as one of the most efficient in the world (on time performance) far higher than European airports.(Cant remember the last time I actually got my bags back at Heathrow). Its newer airlines like Indigo have far higher services level than their western counterparts.
I think general criticism of past Air India (govt run) is mostly justified (although it did offer a lot of advantages of certain types of flyers). But new Air India under Tata (and Singapore Airlines) is totally different ball game. Brand new planes and a company run by world class conglomerate.
Gary Leff usually write very thoughtful and helpful articles. Dont know how he got mislead on this.
The context of current conversation is exactly similar to what American/United/Delta have been having about ME3 for years. India-US and India-Europe traffic has been lost to ME3 for many reasons.
Fair competition is always good for the general public but it has to be fair.
Regarding political situation in India, sorry to see how GUWonder (whose postson various threads have been extremely useful and interesting over the years) feels about it.
Just as Trumpsters are much worse than Trump himself, followers of Modi (Modi bhakts) are much worse than the man himself. But all that political discussion does not belong to an aviation/travel forum.
For the record, most foreign airlines chose to ignore/divert from Indian market, they were not driven away. In fact, many new foreign airlines have successfully entered Indian market post covid. Current discussion is in context of Emirates specifically.
To all the posters commenting about future Air India (under Tata/SIA), you are either grossly ill-informed (and should stop ypourself from commenting) or purely prejudiced or possible past sufferer of poorly run govt airline.
The author just spews India hate….why bring the China comparison on an article about India’s airline policy?
You talk about Emirati airlines ? Who owns those airlines or their hubs? Isn’t there no government/kingdom/whatever’s hand in them?
What’s wrong if India wants to operates it’s own hubs?
Next, United Airlines’ CEO openly talks about government bailout to rescue them, why is it wrong for other countries’ governments to support their airlines?
You are a hypocrite. Your articles seem to focus on the negatives about India …. And that just makes you a hater and a shill for Chinese propaganda or the UAE airline lobby.
Commenters like “Those planes – especially Air India – are barely held together” don’t realize that India buys airbuses and Boeing. They recently placed the biggest ever airplane order with Boeing…..
Get your facts right.
Western hemisphere is in stoneage and ignorant due to their white supremacist racist mindset about us. And this racist mindset makes them more and more stupidest ignorant unableness to stomach our economic growth under our PM modi. BTW white supremacist are not welcomed here. Don’t ever think of that.
Obviously, This seems to be a political article with racist overtones. The Author is only interested in taking one minor view point of his and making it a issue related to liberalisation. There needs to be a balance in national and international carriers passenger volume. They are just trying to manage that.
Most of the comment s saying that they will never fly an Indian operator are the same people who land in India and then complain about almost everything even though the infrastructure in India surpasses that of Europe/US (Because these are new constructions). I was actually shocked on the magnitude of poor infrastructure in the US on my last visit there. Everything was great in 60s and 70s, now its just plain old and creaking.
Foreign phone users to India: “go away, we don’t want your scammers”
From what I have read of India’s carriers, I would not fly on one of them. Most flying between countries is set by reciprocal agreements. That may limit where Indian flight can land if they don’t want reciprocal agreements.
Kingfisher and Jet Airways provided me better service in economy class on domestic flights than American, Delta and United have ever provided me in economy class on domestic flights.
Modi is buddy buddies with the Saudis and Emiratis (and Russians), and so I doubt that his (or, for that matter, any other) Indian government is going to give the boot to all the GCC airlines that are a rival to India’s de facto national carrier.
Maybe Modi & Co will try to give the boot to Turkish, but Modi and his apparatchiks are walking hand in hand with the Saudis and Emiratis on many things (including against the Turks) and will — proverbially-speaking — the RSS/BJP “leaders” will continue to bend the knee and kiss the ring when it comes to those Gulf royals because they need to feed themselves and feet fed by the Indian oligarchs in bed with the Saudis and Emiratis for energy supplies and other reasons.
So when India does it its bad?
Air Canada has been subsidized this year for years. The govt limits the access of the ME3.
That let’s AC charge high prices for a product that is actually far worse than any Indian carrier!
If you transit India on a foreign airline they put you in a holding area and do not allow you to go to lounges, get food or water and have limited access to bathrooms. Avoid traveling via India at all costs. I did not pay for business class to be treated like an exile or criminal.
Having lived both in India and in the US for more that 2 decades each, I have to say this article is a prime example of bias. No foreign airline comes to you altruistically. In the past, India had to beg, now they hold the cards. They have developed a spine and holding their position much to the annoyance of the “entitled” west. Kudos to their confidence. Just travelled to India and the local airports are super busy. Nice to see them growing deliberately, rather be taken in by the other airlines.
@Bob – I have criticized Air Canada’s protectionism as well. However the harms are greater in India.
All the rubbish talk. India didn’t say no to foreign carriers. Currently they have a bilateral agreement with UAE which allow Emirates and Etihad fly 50K seats per week, which is fully utilized by UAE and but not on indian side. Indian carriers have long complained Gulf gives them unviable landing slots (odd hours) in dubai/Abu Dhabi. With increasing demand Emirates/Etihad wants more share of India-US & India-Europe Traffic. Indian govt wants indian carriers fly direct to US/Europe and viceversa US/Europe carriers to India. Allowing more will kill already very low point to point connections by indian airlines & foreign airlines between India/US & India/Europe.
@FlyOften “So Delta whining about ME3 ok but this not ok? Your hypocrisy is showing.”
I was probably the leading critic of Delta’s position.
This is a perfect example of American ‘knows it all geniasses’ eyeing the rest of the world through their myopic, hypocritical lenses. If they would get their heads out of you know where, they would start to see that they’re no better than what they accuse India of. And to ask the brainiacs talking about how they would never board an Indian operated airline, at least the Indian skies don’t have a constant stream nowadays of near misses and technical issues with their a/c like in the good old US of A. I feel safer on Indian A/C than UNITED or AMERICAN. Get OTTA HERE !!! You don’t know if you’re coming or going! All you have is your ridiculous rhetoric. You are in the wrong side of history and you’re just butthurt that’s all.
This is false information with misleading title covering up facts. Author has shown his vested interests and bias in this article. Perfect example of bad journalism or paid by foreign/gulf airline groups.
Author has proved his shallow knowledge in the airline industry.
Working at US DOT and FAA in the United States and worked in inter-nation agreements including OpenSkies policies between govt, i can tell you that middle east airlines especially Emirates and Qatar airways resort to exploiting and abusing the laws and rules in capturing the inbound and outbound travel market with its low prices, due to the reason they pay low for fuel as they own the crude oil market and pricing. They also lack human & labor rights and pay less than the minimum wage prevalent in US and European markets. Lufthansa, United and other airlines have complaining about these gulf airlines of their corrupt practices. Emirates, Etihad and Qatarairways tried to deploy the same abusive tactics on India which Indian govt realized it very well. Indian govt is trying to make it a level playing field in its nation’s interests for the home grown airline industry.
This Author want to grab attention of audience with its catchy, cheap misleading title, clear example of bad journalism.
Who cares about facts when you can peddle a biases and hit jobs. Seems every day some foreigner try to tell indians how to run airlines, economy, foreign policy, etc. Please care about your own countries since it is needed due to bank collapses, economic recessions. India is just doing fine by itself.
It is strange a frequent traveller citing GDP and other economic parameters of two major economies as if he is an authority. The opening paragraph of the article is clear indicator of the bias and hatred for the reasons best known to him. Commenting on the prime minister and political parties is uncalled for. It shows the agony of the author. Probably loosing of business is worrying him.
It is nothing but propaganda and west is worried that they no longer can loot the world like before. India had dealt with economic problems 30years ago and knows how to deal with it. Mind you, Now bankruptucy is at the door for US and Europe.
Why the hate for India? Not geo politically important! Right when everyone is kissing up to Modi! Thanks for your anti India bias but this is not the 80s!
I am an Indian and I agree. We should have same rules for both foreign and Domestic airlines. Imagine a situa where foreign governments refuse to give visas to Indians. We will be in a really poor position to bargain with them.
The “hate for India” comes from commenters who want the government to redistribute money from Indian citizens to Tata Group while hampering the Indian economy – a concerted effort to gaslight in the comments here notwithstanding.
India is currently refusing to raise the seat capacity for Emirati carriers serving India.
That recalcitrant approach doesn’t do Indian passengers any good, but never underestimate the ability of pseudo-nationalists undermining the interests of the common person in the pursuit of some supposedly noble goal.
That other countries play the “protectionist” game doesn’t make it any better to copy the “beggar thy neighbor” type approach.
You are comparing India which worlds most vibrant, open, free, and the largest democracy where every small decision is debated with the most autocratic country China. There is no comparison at all.
For example – to build a new highway, govt has to listen to many people with diverse opinions, env organizations, ngos, other clearances, legal suits, protests, and then compensate people for diff things and then build a highway and anybody can.protest can say anything n.press can write anything while I China, if autocratic govr thinks of highway, they just clear up villages and built it as nobody has freedom.to speak up and nothing to debate.
I have seen for years after telling the world that no other country is as kind and generous as india on this planet. I can give 1.million examples of it. Coming back.to topic.
Señor Leff,
Familiar with the Fifty Cent Party/Army? Well, there is the cheaper, Indian quasi-equivalent with the army of shallow nationalists who think Modi (and the RSS/BJP) and/or India can do nothing (or little) wrong and are eager to rewrite history to try to bury facts that get in the way of their wishful thinking.
Indian aviation had gone into the pits and remained stuck there until India stepped back a little from its stance of pro-protectionism and pro-nationalization of the aviation sector.
This aviation minister Scindia has a habit of speaking in the royal “we” sense when it comes to a lot of things. It’s not so much his trickle-down Maharaja inheritance on full display. It was not just his father (who was a Congress Party Union minister for Civil Aviation) and his grandfather (the last Maharaja of Gwalior) who speak this way with making local/national assets into “our” assets, a lot of people speak this way when playing the nationalist card.
This article is bordering on naivety. International landing spots are reciprocal in nature. If Canada, US and Middle East countries won’t provide landing spots to Indian airlines, there is no reason for India to do the same. Not so surprisingly, Air india has thr most spots because of legacy arrangements. They are bound to corner their market percentage back. Yet another reason why new entrants like Indigo are not been allowed international Landing spots. To expect india to roll over would be stupid.
lol I see the nationalist Modi trolls are out in force. To borrow a line from Modi’s buddy, he’s not sending his best…
What a load of crap and faff in this ridiculously biased arricle. As always Americans cannot mind their own business and want to butt into everything as if they own the world. Every sovereign nation has the right to do what is best for it’s people. End of!!
Some westerners will always complain that some countries should open their skies to foreign airlines. The argument that thus will causr fare priced to drop seems a good one. But some countries have been more over protective about their skies. Canada has air fare prices higher between cities that are closer.to each other compared to longer flights for greater distances, like travelling to Europe, for example.. why would some rich countries exert monopoly over their territory and not developing countries ?
Again, India is not closing its doors to foreign airlines. They are simply doing what other countries have done repeatedly.
Who paid you to write this stupid article
So who pays Gary Leff for writing this article? China, Qatar or other Gulf countries? Looks like he has been paid to put India down by comparing it with China.
How about comparing with China the developed West and pointing out how badly they are doing in every sector.
And after making the non relevant comparison there is no reference to China. How very weird. India has never claimed that it is the top economy.
And Gary is protecting the Gulf countries because their petro revenue is going to dry out within a few years.
This is a totally biased article. Why doesn’t Gary talk about how the West protects its air routes and limits other countries entering certain routes. The travellers have very limited choice. Did Gary think of lecturing the West to open up their routes to other airlines to make them more competitive so the poor people of the West can travel by air. There are a lot of very poor people in the West who are going to free food banks for their food and sleeping out on the streets!
Gary calls himself an expert! An expert on what? Is he an expert on economics? If not he should refrain from making non relevant comments.
Gary, save what’s left of your dignity and stop writing garbage like this. For someone who has never set foot in India (don’t lie that you have!) you certainly think you know the country better than the Indians themselves do. Your article smacks of the ignorant hubris and unexamined white male privilege of the colonizer. Before you start labeling other countries and peoples of color as poor, stupid, and whatever, check your privilege and look up “humility” in the dictionary. Your arrogance makes your readers gag.
@Gerind – The limits are actually 65200 seats per week for Dubai and 49970 seats per week for Abu Dhabi (plus separate quotas for Sharjah and Ras Al Khaimah). The Dubai quota is fully allocated on both sides, but the others still have availability.
Overall, the bilaterally agreed quotas are approx. 27.3 million seats per year across all airlines and all airports. Given the entire population of the UAE is 9 million, this is viewed by MoCA as more than adequate to meet the needs of traffic between the countries.
The author is so clearly biased and working for some other airline; it is clearly evident in the word he used.
Indians living in other countries spend a lot of money on middle-east airlines as they do not have many other options. These airlines killed European airline routes to India by offering ridiculously low, loss-making rates to kill competition. Indians, being cheap, flocked and spent their money with the ME airlines. After the europeans reduced/eliminated flights due to low load, ME airlines, having killed the competition, raised the ticket prices. Is this fair to other airlines and to the passengers?
India, being the largest country, can choose to provide options for its citizens to spend their money on airlines that pays taxes to India. What is wrong with that? Most Indians who are traveling to India would gladly spend their money with airlines that benefits its citizens and uplift its poor.
It is a shame that the author repeatedly says that Indians are poor.
@William Mapouka – “efore you start labeling other countries and peoples of color as poor, stupid, and whatever, check your privilege ”
I never labeled the people of India as stupid or “whatever” but the per capital GDP is ~ $2500, you seem to be effectively the colonizer who wants to keep them poor.
Yes the author of this article is very biased against India. India has the best airlines in the world. the author should stop the hate on India and India airlines. Mr author does not know about India india airlines or india economy. India is best world country
This is a crap article influenced by Western media to shwo India in bad light. See how the westen countries are running for India support for stopping Ukrainian war. The same thing they tried again china as well.
The author gave example of China and forgot that China has ever more tough restrictions when it comes to foreign companies. Chinese airlines are dominated by Chinese domestic companies. Moreover China has strictest censorship in just about everything. When talking about The richness of Chinese people don’t forget to mention happiness index and how people are treated like cattle there when it comes to manufacturing. China didn’t get all of these without compromising humanitarian grounds.
And please get over Modi hatred. It’ll be easy to digest once you accept people like him and want him and he’s a nationalist above all
Not forgot! The wealthier the country the more stupid policies they can afford!
Oh my god… who are these rats going on about how terrible India is and their airlines are crap???? GOOD !!! Stay away!!! More for us!! We don’t and never needed you in the first place. We were feeding you idiots during the ‘ stagnant economy’ days of the nineties and like the ingrates you are youre quick to forget that even two years ago when we were sending out vaccines to your countries to save your sorry assets.
Don’t forget to write us when your economies continue to tank because all you are is hot air. Production wise You’re zilch And will never be more than parasites. You operate on debt and that’s so you will be.
What the heck is this article?
EVERY SINGLE major airline flies to India. Everyone. To multiple destinations. Singapore, Qatar, BA, Lufthansa whoever you want to name. Currently these carriers take more than 75% of international travel out of India. Meanwhile, the two biggest airline/airline groups are launching more international flights this year than in many years gone by. Should the govt just encourage oversupply? Does this situation suggest that India “does not want your international flights”? We already have them. There is 0 correlation to the 1990s when India had a closed economy.
The only reason the gulf carriers have asked for more flights is that they’re afraid of the incoming competition. After KF & Jet died, India basically had no competitor to any airline. Now there’s IndiGo and Air India (adding 11 long haul planes this yr).
What a joke of an article & an insult to this publication.
The author of this article may have a point but he is no expert in Indian aviation history and market, as well as its policies or where it wants to be after all these years of being told by the great thought leaders/politicians/lawmakers/entitled genius’s of certain countries(don’t have to mention ofcourse) on what to do with Indian market without knowing the country well. Tell me if what India is doing right now is wrong! Then what united/AA/delta did by partnering with other European airlines to certain routes of their choice, essentially kicking out the competition out is right!? Tell me if middle eastern airlines did not particularly exploit the fares… Can you tell me if any country neglects its interests for the benefit of others! This article is one side of a coin! Oh hey! Who cares right! Indian aviation market is ready to be exploited by (….) and Indian govt won’t allow that to happen, at least for now. I’m pretty sure that quotas to other countries will be increased based on need in the future. Their market has a potential unlike any other in the current times. So hold your horses and watch. And finally, please don’t cheat yourself thinking what worked in your case/country would always work for other countries who don’t share a thing in culture/identity/overall functioning of it’s institutions. Poor comparison and Biased article to say the least. ✌️ out
My wife is Punjabi.
I have been to India several times.
Unless one is uber-wealthy, India is a corrupt shithole.
That is a fact. Deal with it.
The comments to this article are indeed interesting and Gary’s comments in the article started a clear questioning of his bias, starting w/ the notion that India is a poor country.
First, Gary, when were you last in India? How many times have you been in the last 5 years? Have you ever been in India? The same question is true for every other person that wants to comment about India.
Second, it is clear from even the excerpts that India is not going to give Emirates a carte blanche check for expansion. The entire world has realized that covid has been an opportunity to reassess the role of the Middle East airlines and the realization that the ME3 are not as interested in developing the economies of the countries they serve as dominating their markets. It is not exactly like we expect British Airways, Delta or Qantas to do anything that isn’t in their best interest but they at least have a strong home country on one end of the routes they serve. The ME3 want to siphon off of both ends of their network with no benefit to either.
Third, India, just like every country is right to try to develop its own economy and companies and take the same steps to ensure its own companies success as every western company has done.
Fourth, Delta’s objection to Boeing’s support of allowing non-US and non-European carriers to be financially assisted by the US Export Import Bank was precisely the primary reason Delta targeted the ME3. I doubt if Boeing is as convinced their move was that smart after Delta has taken delivery of and still has on order over $40 billion worth of Airbus aircraft.
Fifth, let’s not forget that China unilaterally decided to cut the amount of foreign carrier access and has not reinstated it even though they lifted all domestic covid restrictions – a move that is nothing more than government protectionism of its airline industry which was heavily subsidized by the Chinese government pre-covid, something they don’t want to do again.
Let’s call a spade what it is but not confuse India’s legitimate right to provide access to its own markets based on how and its home countries.
Just don’t expect Gary to provide the balanced perspective that is needed on this issue because all Gary is concerned about is page clicks – and he go them on this article.
@Tim Dunn – I’ve been to India more than half a dozen times, all of my visits were pre-pandemic, are you seriously suggesting that most people in a country with $2500 GDP per capita are not poor? (And I cited PPP here in the post as well.)
“India, just like every country is right to try to develop its own economy” but here it is doing the opposite. Air travel builds an economy. Taxing poorer people in your country to protect the margins of your wealthiest citizens does not.
Your claim that “Delta’s objection to Boeing’s support of allowing non-US and non-European carriers to be financially assisted by the US Export Import Bank was precisely the primary reason Delta targeted the ME3” is absolutely false. The former was a domestic political issue (they didn’t want the US government subsidizing their rivals), the latter didn’t even focus on the largest subsidies they claimed the Gulf carriers received.
China is absolutely protectionist along many dimensions, much of what the Chinese Communist Party does is counterproductive for their economy, sometimes intentionally (like cracking down on their domestic tech industry) but they’ve moved enough towards markets that they’ve experienced enough growth they’re better able to afford this than India is. Whether they can afford slower growth while maintaining political stability is an open question! Whether they’re able to retain tight control over their civil society in an age of AI and LLMs remains to be seen! They already acknowledge there are going to be problems with the Great Firewall in the face of homegrown versions of Chat GPT.
Meanwhile quit denigrating my motives (“all Gary is concerned about is page clicks – and he go them on this article”) when you lack the better of an argument. Your working theory is wrong here in any case, this piece represents my view. I write what I think, I don’t write for clicks. I just don’t shy away from controversy because that’s who I am. If I were trying to maximize revenue from this site I would be far less controversial! Look at other large sites with direct relationships with credit card issuers. Do you find The Points Guy taking frequent stands like I do? Those turn off people who might apply for a credit card. I do it anyway, not because it makes money but even though it loses money.
As a travel agent I have traveled in most of the world airlines. With the advent of the Arabian Airlines like Emirates and Etihad, the European airlines had to take a back seat because they redefined luxury. While the Western airlines were on cost cutting, Emirates was providing multilingual and multicultural absolutely global experience. Gone were the days when airports like Frankfurt and Charles de Gaul looked like a marvel. Both in vassels quality and service the airliesnes of UAE were far superior. India’s own Jet Airway and Kingfisher were world class with very high service standards. Some of my worst travel experience has been on American Airlines which looks like a interstate bus in Europe, their inflight service standards were the worst. Air India had very good standards but was owned by Government of India. With it’s privatization and after it goes back to it’s original owners the Tatas, Air India is bound to become the topmost airlines in the world. Anyone who has seen the Tata standards of hospitality in their hotel chain can be sure of this.
This article is written out of frustration as this would mean that the huge and profitable Indian market, is bound to shift east. If the author feels that Indian’s are poor he can still push low cost airlines to India liye Rayan Air butnai think IndiGo would batter it to dustnin both cost and service efficiency. Europeans and western airlines are doomed to loose and it’s their interest that the author is trying hard to protect. For me the best flight, timing wise, from Europe is Air France but it works out very expensive and the lost baggage in transit has increased. Given the choice I would love to fly on Air India manager by Tata or Emirates anyday if they can offer the same fare as the quality of food onboard and service would be too notch.
Hi Gary,
Do any of the illustrious research and fellow scholars at the Mercatus Center know of their center’s Chief Financial Officer’s biased and half-informed views about countries, citizens, wealth and aviation policies?
My advice: Stick to being a CFO and leave the publication of econo-geo-socio-polical views to the scholars who can.
Gary,
someone ahead of me in the comments suggested you had never been to India. I asked the question and accept your response.
You are manipulating history if you believe that Delta wasn’t directly arguing against the ME3’s receiving of Import Export Bank subsidies because they were and continue to be the largest purchasers of aircraft from either Airbus and Boeing that do not qualify for subsidies. (neither US or European airlines are eligible)
Nowhere do any of the facts of the real case – not what you put in this article – show that India is limiting any country’s access EXCEPT the UAE. Tell us precisely, Gary, what other countries that India is targeting? Not with opinion but facts from real documents.
India is a country of over 1 billion people. Of course there are many, many poor people and averages are low because of the huge number of poor people – but the middle class that travels internationally or is capable of doing so is still in the hundreds of millions of people
When you make patently factually incorrect statements or exclude key facts to push an agenda which is not in line w/ what other sources report, people have to ask why. You can tell us why from the start of the article or you can simply deal w/ the factually incorrect statements or include all facts before you make stupid comments such as the poverty of travelers.
@Tim Dunn “You are manipulating history if you believe that Delta wasn’t directly arguing against the ME3’s receiving of Import Export Bank subsidies”
That’s not what I said, and that’s not what you said. Delta was absolutely opposed to re-authorizing the Export-Import bank. They happened to be right on the merits, in addition to the self-serving reasons they took the position. But that wasn’t the primary reason they wanted the Gulf carriers kicked out of the country, and Export-Import bank subsidies certainly are not and were not their claimed biggest subsidies.
I also never talked about “the poverty of travelers”
(1) they keep poorer people who don’t travel by air from doing so
(2) this is not just about travelers! air travel brings economic development. refer to the original piece. It’s cargo. It’s commerce. It’s the things that make people in a country less poor!
Talking about all of the people who can afford to travel completely misses the point.
Most of the commenters in this thread, of course, are disinformation trolls acting on behalf of the Indian government – they are not organic readers of this site. It’s been receiving a shocking amount of traffic *from India* which is…. unusual for this site.
Gary,
where and when did Delta ever want to kick the ME3 out of the country (presumably the US?) Facts and citations, please.
Delta most certainly did object to the subsidies from ExIm that the ME3 could receive but US and European carriers could not. If you don’t think that is correct, then provide proof from their complaints which were filed with the government so they are of public record.
again, facts and documentation, not opinions matter.
If you aren’t capable of recognizing that averages in the largest and growing country in the world don’t translate into international travel or don’t bother to include that perspective, then you deserve to be criticized not just from India but from the US.
And tell us that there weren’t huge volumes of internet traffic to this site when you ran endless articles about China.
it is called the worldwide web for a reason.
it doesn’t mean you have a fanbase there.
and it doesn’t mean you can publish whatever you want without facing repercussions in your own country
Gary, you seemed to have hit a nerve. This is my opinion.
@Tim Dunn: Yes, facts matter. Where are yours?
You throw out nonsense regularly and then try to call out others.
Take a look at https://www.businessinsider.com/deltas-rivals-strike-back-after-video-attacking-middle-eastern-airlines-2017-7
“As a result, they also say the ME3 are in violation of the Open Skies agreements that govern air travel between the US and 120 nations including the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. The US3 has asked the Trump Administration to re-examine the Open Skies agreements with the UAE and Qatar while prohibiting any further expansion into the US by the ME3.”
Facts matter.
I fly from BLR to SFO often via DXB and if Air India put new plane on this route or if United starts direct flight to BLR, I would never fly any other route again and as a passenger that’s what I want. Not waste time in middle east or Europe. Also, this author is clearly biased and stuck in 80’s.. Significant percentage of India is middle class and has capacity to fly international route. Vast majority of Americans are burdened with debt than average Indians. Does that make them rich?
“You are comparing India which worlds most vibrant, open, free, and the largest democracy …” That India is sadly no more, but maybe it can be reincarnated to return in form when enough Indians realize that the RSS/BJP is just making India into a Hindu-majority version of Pakistan and would be a basket case like Pakistan too if not for an American-supported imperative to strategically stage India as a counterbalance to rising China.
India is not the most vibrant, open and free democracy. Under Modi, India is the world leader in populist authoritarianism and shuts off the internet like no democracy in the world; raids news organization offices; chases after human rights organizations to try to silence or disappear them; arrests and even tortures journalists for reporting what the government doesn’t want reported and places government minders in news offices; bulldozes and seizes property under false pretenses without following the rule of law by even serving individual notice; rewrites history in children’s school books; punishes children for the “crime” of the parents; manipulates the senior judiciary in a way that would make the Pakistani military feel right at home in Delhi; and copies the domestic mass surveillance impulses of China. Unfortunately this is what has become of India, a place less vibrant, less open and less free than the independent India given birth to by its freedom fighters who freed India of the autocratic rule imposed by colonial and other domestic powers.
@GUWonder:
And let’s not forget the ever-present caste system that continues without interruption.
“Most of the commenters in this thread, of course, are disinformation trolls acting on behalf of the Indian government – they are not organic readers of this site. It’s been receiving a shocking amount of traffic *from India* which is…. unusual for this site.”
Unusual for this site, but not surprising to me. You’re seeing the RSS/BJP-driven propaganda machine in action. They learned from the big enemies of India, the little “allies” of India, and the Nazis and other European minority-hating fascists whom they have long admired.
1KBrad,
While casteism is still a massive problem within India and even among the India diaspora around the world, one thing the Modi gang has done rather effectively in India is to try to downplay caste divisions and in its stead extend and unify enough Hindus regardless of caste so that the ruling party (inclusive of its powers behind the curtains) can carry on marching on the paths marked by Nazis and other fascists of yesteryears, “Communist” China, Pakistan, Iran, Israel and Putin’s Russia.
Gary,
Tim Dunn and other commenters trying to pick on you based on your history of visiting India is sort of amusing, despite the fact that your travel history neither strengthens or weakens your position on an objective basis.
There are masses of people who believe themselves nationalists and live all their life in a country without being sensible enough to be aware of how their own country functions and fails. In my school of thought, a person is a lousy nationalist when they are blind to or easily triggered by well-intentioned criticism and incapable or unwilling to be critical of their own country’s flaws and flawed courses. To be human or a human artifact means to be imperfect, to make mistakes, and to have room for improvement. But good luck with getting the Modi machine (or, previously the Congress machine) to be open to that reality when it comes to foreigners — and even NRIs — not following the Party Line.
By the way, you should see how angry they get when told that Hinduism is no less a product of foreign invaders to India than Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism in India.
A perfect example of misinformation and ill information. I am an aviation & uav expert and manufacturer. I clearly see and feel the western pain of not allowing foreign airlines to enter Indian market. And am not a government agent at all.
Stop wining like a baby. Home grown market, local manufacturing will always boost the economy. 1/5 economy yet we gave world biggest aviation order.
@Tim Dunn – In 2015 Richard Anderson explicitly called for remedies that included imposing limits on flights to the U.S. by Gulf carriers, and imposing price floors on ticket sales, both in contravention of U.S. treaty obligations. Facts matter. He lobbied for fewer flights.
Your discussion of average versus the tails of wealth in India again misses the point as I explained in my previous comment. I won’t explain it again because you ignore why you’re off-base. Have you ever visited slums in Mumbai?
The writer seems to be lackey of gulf airlines pitching their case of more flights to India blindly . All other countries do not give carte blanche policy of open skies policy, each country will do what’s in their best interests and protect their domestic carriers, so stop whining n moaning
Gary and 1K Brad,
it is noted that you, Gary, said that Delta asked for the ME3 to be kicked out of the US and then, when asked to provide citations, respond with the exact campaign Delta (and AA and UA) launched to REDUCE the amount of flights the ME3 could operate into the US and block their growth and NOT eliminate them or kick them out as you stated.
both of you,
After originally stating that the reason for DL’s objection to the ME3 was NOT because of the ExIm bank, you also replied that DL’s objection was to the ME3’s use of the ExIm bank which is EXACTLY what I said.
The reason why I have such a good time participating in your forum, Gary, is because you make yourself such an easy target for debate because you 1. don’t do your research before you write 2. bang out articles and 3. then, when forced to document, end up with exactly the position that I said from the very beginning or you just walk away.
1KB
whether your wife is Punjabi or not doesn’t change that there is a middle class that is traveling by air that numbers in the hundreds of millions. Not all of those travel international long haul but there is a massive amount of travel potential in India.
I completely support India’s attempts to retake their international travel market and put them either on Indian airlines or on partners that allow true Open Skies and balanced opportunities for both sides – unlike the ME3.
Delta objected to the ME3 and covid is now being seen as the great reset that is limiting the ability of the ME3 to regrow to the size they once were and India is going to play the biggest role in cutting off the ME3’s ability – plus TK and whatever new startup airlines pop up in the region – from growing. With the A380’s demise on the horizon, the ME3 will shrink in India.
The issue India raised was NEVER about airlines other than the ME3 and even then specifically Emirates whose traffic rights to India are governed by agreements with multiple emirates and not just Dubai.
I’ve had fun shredding what you two have written and, for now, have to move on to other things. Keep banging on the keyboard w/o or counter to facts or by cherrypicking them and I’ll have a full-time job coming to this site for a long time to come.
I find Tim Dunn’s opinions interesting because they do not try to tie statistics to statements. For instance: “whether your wife is Punjabi or not doesn’t change that there is a middle class that is traveling by air that numbers in the hundreds of millions.” 2021 has the top 1% (approximately 14 million Indians) earning an average of less than 2 million Rupees per year. https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/budget/who-belongs-to-indias-middle-class-anyway-9892491.html The top 10% (approximately 140 million Indians) includes those who earn 300,000 Rupees per year which is a bit more than 3,600 USD per year. https://thegeopolitics.com/income-inequality-in-india/ The top 10% is not usually considered middle class, rather upper class. Further 3,600 dollars per year doesn’t leave much in a budget for flying considering that a lot of other costs have to be paid first. A better explanation is that tens of millions of Indians fly on a yearly basis and that hundreds of millions of Indians fly but most fly infrequently.
@GUWonder
“Unfortunately this is what has become of India, ….”
This is not just under Modi – FYI
The Indira Gandhi government under the banner of “secular” congress did just all the above and more including forced sterilizations..
They nationalized Air India – a profitable business to get influence in travel. They nationalized banks and many companies – and then the socialist system failed- then they did an about face.
As a commoner and an NRI traveling to India off and on, I see this as very limiting. A traveler must have the options and not be bound by a countries politics and left with no choice on which airline to travel on.. because, Air India and all the budget airlines going to India are the pits.. Very bad infrastructure, food, facilities offered. It is always my last choice, only chosen if I have no alternative. I hope it doesn’t become the only option. That would make India no better than Korea.
For all who called caste in india .. in india it is cast . In other place like US it is called racism. Just check local US new for every day events between cops and non white s . So each country has it is own caste or race .
Also why do we want flight india is not as big as China or Russia or USA. So people rely on trains more so uncessary talk on flights now. Let train increase bus then car then flights. In US no bikes all cars so step by step. The author is biased and not doing his research. Such article never should be published.
It is funny that whities and their cronies always feel the need to preach others their idea of business and policies. Stay in your lane. Indians will decide what is best for them. You focus on your issues such as racism, xenophobia, etc. in yor adichittu. Get a life
Gee, with all these comments about how great India is, I have to wonder why so many emigrate and immigration is almost non-existent.
Funny . . .
@BBajaj
I agree that current Air India planes and service are bad. Air India flight from SFO to Delhi has touch screens in economy class that is not working and seats that are not that comfortable. Food is subjective. However, I will always pick that flight over any other flight unless the price is over $300+ just to save time and avoid layover. My parents recently fly from India to SFO and they found food terrible on Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to SFO flight. The best international flight I have ever taken was flight from Mumbai to London operated by Jet Airways. It had classy cabin crew and great food and service. That was in 2007. I fly domestically often in the US and I feels like I am traveling in a flying bus in all the airlines in the US. If Air India under new owners can match that Jet Airways service and put new flights on the routes I fly, I will always fly with them. Have you ever fly from DXB SFO? More than 80% of the passengers on that flight are the poor Indians this author is referring that can’t afford to travel internationally from poor India. I always wonder, why Indians have to fly through Dubai or Europe or East Asia and waste time? Why no Indian airlines is starting flights directly to the SFO which has significant Indian population with high income? That’s what the passengers to India from SFO wants. It’s great to have more options and have competition between airlines but not like 80% of the plane starting from a third country to the destination is Indians. That is just corruption.
The Indian belief in protectionism is an unfortunate bizarre and mystical relic of Gandhi, who with religious fervor insisted that Indians waste vast amounts of time spinning their own yarn rather than engage in more productive activities and buying yarn from others.
China might have a “Communist” political system, but has gotten wealthy from it’s predominantly market based economic system and social – if not political – freedom. India on the other hand has a “Democratic” political system, but has remained poor due to what is still predominantly a command economy managed by bureaucrats serving entrenched interests and its stifling social environment beholden to caste and religion (which are of course one and the same).
Indian bureaucrats no longer are the power behind the wheel. The power in India is the RSS and its ruling class of politicians and their thugs more than the bureaucrats had been even during Emergency Rule when Indira Gandhi closed shop on democracy in India. Emergency Rule under Indira Gandhi was ugly, but Modi’s India is uglier in its own ways and causing greater and longer lasting damage to liberal representative democracy than even that disaster under the Congress (I) Party.
A lot of Indians emigrate because of economic and educational opportunities. A lot of Bangladeshis used to illegally immigrate to India when India was more of an economic basket case than Modi risks making it with Amit Shah pulling up the puppet strings.
What I find so amusing about these Hindutva clowns is that they are selective in their Hinduism. In that regard they share a lot with Pakistani jihadis with their selective Islam.
This discussion was about flight rights but we have bots here as usual with Modi bashing.Just shows how uncomfortable they are with an elected leader.Please contribute on the topic at hand and leave your political comments on Political forums .Such losers .
Author hasn’t made a case why UAE should want 20 Million seats between UAE and India, when entire resident population of UAE is 12 Million, and UAE citizens are only close to 2 Million, and most of the remaining are differing nationalities. Current agreement if 260,000 per week 130,000 for UAE carriers and same for Indian Carriers is sufficient for close to 3 Million Indian expatriates living in UAE, as very few other nationals have any need to travel in this routes. The Indian expatriate population is likely to fall drastically due increased role Emirati citizens in the economy, so the seats have to come down in lock step with it.
Has the author disclosed conflicts of interests.
Barry, would you be comfortable with Hitler as a leader? Hitler was also an elected leader, but is that really why Hitler has long been held in high esteem by the RSS/BJP and their other fellow Jan Sanghi types?
Merely being an elected leader is sufficient to make you comfortable with the person?Then please explain why Modi & Co have banned the Indian people of Jammu and Kashmir from having an elected government if elected leaders are to be beyond reproach.
Modi and his fat controller Amit Shah seem damn uncomfortable with democracy for Indians who don’t parrot the Hindutva party line.
Most of the Indians flying via the UAE are flying to countries beside the UAE. Emirati carriers have been good for Indian expatriates and the rest of the Indian diaspora. It’s also been good for India and Indians that the Gulf carriers provided an alternative to the mess that has been Air India and competition to lower fares charged by European and American carriers.
The original purpose of Emirates and each of the Gulf carriers to start flying was to provide workers, largely from S. Asia, to build the Gulf countries. Each of the S. Asian countries was originally happy to let them in so they could provide jobs for their citizens who send money home.
Emirates decided to build a hub and they need more and more seats in order to provide connections to their network.
Whether the majority of seats on 20+ A380s or 777Ws just on EK are for connecting or local passengers between India and DXB is unknown but India is focused on the connections beyond DXB.
India and no other country is wanting to cut off the number of seats that are used between India and the Gulf states. Problem is that airlines don’t have to use seats for local or connecting traffic once granted to them.
It still comes down to the fact that the world had time to think through the Gulf airline model during covid and they (the ME3) are not likely to return to what once had.
European and US airlines are doing what they can to keep that traffic from spilling back onto the ME3, esp if there is any value to it.
This GUWonder user needs to be banned. Just spamming the forum with irrelevant, hateful and nonsensical rubbish completely unrelated to the article.
Gu Wonder,all that discussion should find it’s place on another forum ,not here.This is an aviation website.I will not engage in a political discussion not relevant to the topic here.
Barry has already supplied political comments in this forum. But when the sacred cow of Modi is touched, Barry plays his cards and calls it “Modi-bashing” and wants whatever that is out of here. Have a problem with peaceful dissent? Then you’re probably not really as comfortable with open democracy and elected leaders as Barry pretends to be while trying to disappear commentary on Modi.
GU Wonder ,you are one obsessed with Modi bring in a plethora of issues not related to aviation.Looks like he has made your life uncomfortable or is it that someone didn’t wish you today.Sit down and discuss the issue at hand which is about air traffic rights.
GUWonder,
We passengers to & from India don’t like to change flights in some foreign country and waste time unless we want a break in some third country. Specially middle east where they do one more round of security check. You seem to be full of political BS. What this minister is doing is good. India should encourage direct flights to it’s destinations. I would pick direct flight in a heartbeat even if the price is slightly higher and I guarantee that the service will improve with new owner & brand new flights.
Sudhir,
I’ve flown internationally out of and into Delhi more than 99.99% of Indian residents.
As much as I often prefer direct flights, lots of Indians would rather get superior service and cheaper flights with a connection than pay a big premium for non-stop service, especially when it comes to the “comfort” of economy class.
When flying via any foreign transit airport on a long-haul flight from India, passengers coming from India are subject to a security re-screening because of little faith in CISF/Indian security services.
If the Gulf Arab royals want to splurge on providing a lot more service to and from India with a lot more seats, that means lower fares for Indians even on non-stop long-haul trips. Why you would want to beggar yourself and compatriots with higher fares by locking out expanded capacity from foreign carriers is stupid for the pocketbook and stupid policy. And that’s the same whether it’s the approach of Canada, the US, EU countries, India or your bossom buddies in Bangladesh and Pakistan.
Khan,
Good luck trying to objectively show how my comments are irrelevant to what has been said by others in the blog comments or how it is nonsensical rubbish completely unrelated to the article. Hateful? Those who hate on ethnic and religious minorities in their midst are the really problematic hate-driven ones. And, boy, are they motivated to be part and parcel of the Modi machine and to silence people who dare to challenge their preferred narrative.
Remember when the cry of the day was India is Indira and Indira is India. Now it’s Modi and not Indira Gandhi, except that voices of dissent are now more marginalized and silenced for longer periods by the pro-government machine than back during Emergency Rule.
Modi and his pet, supportive oligarchs don’t have a self-serving use for expanded Gulf Carriers service to India when the order or the day is to feed and be fed by the corrupt and corrupting Modi machine.
“if the price is slightly higher”
It will be significantly higher. That’s why the ME3 does so well. They have economy of scale.
This says it all – https://m.timesofindia.com/india/tatas-are-the-biggest-political-donors-bjp-biggest-recipient-adr-report/amp_articleshow/78696078.cms
The big Indian business houses have long had a history of donating large sums above and under the table to the ruling powers that be in the country. And in return, the ruling powers that be help the same persons/groups providing them big money. It has been no coincidence that the big business houses’ leaders and aides also provide some very expensive wedding gifts to the marrying children of India’s senior politicians or even pay for the weddings.
A lot of the big business houses used to do the same kind of thing with the Congress Party too, but nowadays the money is much bigger than it used to be even 15 years ago and the kickbacks and backscratching are like never before in the country. Given the reach of the US’s Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, it may be a combination of India’s geostrategic importance and the RSS/BJP intimidation factor that has Indian whistle-blowing not being as big business as it can be, especially given the amount of money that could be in play on the US-side.
@GU Wonder
Who said foreign airlines has better service? Indian passengers are subject to screening in all airports while changing planes? Shows how much you have travelled. Only in middle east I have encountered this and not in European or Singapore/Hongkong airports. It’s not cheap either. Price is almost similar. Given a choice, I would never want to touch my feet on those middle eastern countries. The best international flight I ever taken was Jet airways from Mumbai & LHR. I have travelled domestically in Kingfisher airlines in India when it was operational in late 2000’s and it is the best domestic airlines I ever travelled. Compared to that all the domestic airlines in the US look like a cattle class. Air India may be worst now but I am sure under new management and new planes ordered it will be much better.
Good or bad we can’t predict. The time has its power. Let us see
It’s amazing to see the west/developed world get uncomfortable with India…I understand its hard to see someone better than your collective self…how can people who should learn from us be better than us. How can a country feed 800M people (size of US and most of Europe put together) for free and yet grow…how can a country kick the Pfizers and Astras of the world create their own superior vaccine and give to the world for free and yet grow…while US Canada and UK busy hoarding the vaccines from the world yet have the worst COVID management… It’s amazing how the west just does not have any morals…finally just so that when the western economy is in the toilet guess who comes to rescue hmmm India comes out and gives the aviation deal creating millions of jobs in US, UK and France so that their people dont starve… It’s hard to digest that some people are good at administration and west just lacks that talent…staying in denial will only prolong the learning…please wake up and smell the coffee
India should be uncomfortable with itself given how it is now betraying the legacy of Mahatma Gandhi and Nehru, the very leaders who made India a democracy and guided it on a path to distinguish it from being just a Hindu version of Pakistan. And about India’s economic rise and capabilities, let’s not forget that a lot of it is a product of the very IIT/IIM system which Nehru advanced long ago and from
which Manmohan Singh was able to propel national growth during the mid-1990s and later. India’s tech sector — and let’s be clear that the Indian tech sector is still a very small part of the Indian employment scene and underemployment in the country is a massive problem — would have been no more than Pakistan and Bangladesh if not for those folks, the Indian diaspora, and a US-led drive to check China.
A loyal opposition member of the Indian Parliament — namely Rahul Gandhi this time — was disqualified from remaining as a member of Parliament because of a conviction in a defamation case in a stacked court case. Meanwhile the RSS/BJP gundas with involvement in violent crimes remain in government offices. Thugocracy and anti-democratic rule has taken over India, courtesy of its ruling establishment hoodwinking people with its fundamentally anti-national Hindutva ideology. The idea that all is well and good in today’s India is given the lie by a lot of the shenanigans engaged in by this government.
Shenanigans which include how Adani got his first contracts for six Indian airports.
Not even the US of A has a purely capitalist or market-oriented policy for every sector of its economy. The US too was protectionist early on. This was primarily to let its own local industries develop.
Every country chooses policies for each sector based on its strengths and weaknesses. Countries that are small and rich can afford to have “open-skies” policies, but for a big country like India, it is imperative to have a viable local industry.
In India, the middle east carriers (Qatar Airways and Emirates) already have a big share of the international travel sector. This government move is about stopping the middle-east behemoths from monopolizing the market, thereby completely stunting the growth of the fledgling local carriers. If Indian consumers ARE the market, then India has every right to decide whether to let ONLY the local consumers benefit or let the wider Indian economy also benefit along the way. If local carriers grow and India develops its own hubs, then it will result in a lot more aviation sector-related jobs for the Indian economy.
Ayn-Rand worshippers can whine and complain all they want, but there is NOTHING called a pure free market. Only fools believe in such a fairy tale.
We do not want pricey foreign airlines, looting Indian poor people.
More flights, especially from Emirates and also other Gulf carriers, would bring more choices to Indian consumers, increase competition, and lower fares – wrong statement
They don’t think they need foreign flights to improve commerce and bring down costs -Wrong statement.
In the early 1990s, facing a debt crisis and stagnant economy, India partially liberalized, doing away with many business licensing and protectionist regimes. They nearly doubled economic growth, from a low base, and averted national bankruptcy – Not related. Talk sense.
Altogether useless article.