A woman went online for the internet’s judgment on whether she was in the wrong to fly first class over Thanksgiving with her three year old. Another passenger tried to get them kicked out of first class before the flight even began, asked her to go back to coach during the flight, and hurled profanity at her at the end of the flight.
My husband, toddler (almost 3) and I were flying across the country for Thanksgiving. …My toddler has always been a good flyer and has flown a lot throughout her short life. We follow our pediatrician recommendation to give her a dose of baby Tylenol and gripe water 30 minutes before travel and she’s never been disruptive or cried on an airplane, this flight included.
..[W]hen another 1st class passenger saw us he started glaring. Shortly after he sat down a flight attendant came up and asked to see our boarding passes to make sure we were seated correctly. We showed her our boarding passes and she was like “cool, yall are good”. A few minutes later a second flight attendant came up and asked again to see our boarding passes. We showed them and again she was like “cool yall are good”.
…My kid fell asleep in the middle of coloring, husband is snoozing, I’m listening to music when I get a tap on my shoulder. It was the guy that glared at us as he boarded and before I could even get a word out he told me that children weren’t allowed in 1st class and that we needed to move to our “real” seats.
…The flight attendant came and explained to him that we were in the correct seats that we paid for and asked that he sit back down and not bother us again. He did go back to his seat but as we were getting off the plane he whispered to me that I was a [expletive deleted] and that he pays too much money for first class to be surrounded by children.
I’ve been really lucky. My daughter has been an amazing traveler and I’ve never drugged her for a flight like this woman did. Despite the interruption of the pandemic, she’s been to Paris a couple of times, Sydney a couple of times, Bora Bora and more. As a baby she was a great flyer – the plane was a giant white noise machine, she’d sleep, and we’d entertain her when she was awake (which wasn’t much of the flight). More recently she sits and plays games, plays with toys we bring, and watches shows. We’ve only ever had two flights with issues,
- After a perfect flight from Sydney to Dallas at five months old, where passengers complimented us and a flight attendant described her as the best they’ve ever had, things went south for our short Dallas – Austin connection. I did get a couple of glares in first class. I wished they knew how well she’d done for the 15 hour flight.
- On the return from her first of two trips to Hawaii, we were just over 20 minutes out from landing back in Austin. She threw a tantrum. Her version of it, though, was to show how made she was by threatening to take off her mask so the police would come get us. I tried so hard not to laugh because she wanted to be taken very seriously!
Several years ago Malaysia Airlines banned babies from first class. They don’t have first class anymore. I’ve found that travel in first class with an infant is great, but with a toddler business class is much better for helping and monitoring (British Airways first class is really business class in this regard).
My first thought hearing this woman’s Thanksgiving story is this was a domestic first class flight, not a private jet or the Etihad Residence. If this man “pays too much money for first class to be surrounded by children” then he’s… paying too much to sit there.
Ultimately children have a right to be on planes. Other passengers have a right to peace and quiet regardless of class of service. Sometimes those rights conflict, and we resolve them the best we can. Parents should come as prepared as possible to meet their child’s needs. When their child has an issue, the parents should address it.
The worst behavior I’ve seen has, more often than not, come about because the parents were acting badly.
- I’ve seen parents just ‘check out’ on planes
- And I’ve seen them send their kids running down the aisles.
When a young child threw a loud tantrum on a flight once, their parents argued with each other and ignored the screams and kicks. Another child ran into American Airlines first class on a Los Angeles – Washington Dulles flight and took my wife’s phone from her, wanting to play games on it. Once as I was about to lay down to sleep in Cathay first class on a Hong Kong – New York JFK flight, a young child’s parents sent him running back and forth down the aisle. It turns out his parents were readers of this blog.
It’s hard to travel with children, and that’s ok, traveling with children is an added responsibility for parents who usually rise to the occasion. And it’s when the parents don’t that the biggest issues arise. In contrast, when they’re visibly trying, other passengers will often give them much more patience and kindness.
On the other hand, some people (like the passenger described here) are just jerks.
Profanity in public should be illegal
Very simple, you tell the guy to go fuck himself, loudly, and that’s it
No patience for entitled assholes
I’m not a fan of loud or crying kids in a plane but it is what it is. That’s why they make noise canceling headphones.
There was no reason to come and ask to see your boarding passes, all of that information is on the preliminary paperwork. The passenger had no right to approach you, and if anything he stood a chance of being removed. But was it necessary to add the flight attendants vernacular? That was rather tacky, and says something about you. Nobody likes to see small children in premium cabins because sometimes they can be a nightmare, but sometimes judgmental adults can be a nightmare too.
Crying, loud kids eventually tire out and go to sleep. I’ll take them any day of the week.
It’s the annoying, whining, noise making adults that I can’t tolerate.
My issue is not with babies or young kids in business/first per se, it is the bad parents that often come with them. The amount of flights I’ve been on with toddlers running up and down the isles, playing movies/games without headphones, or otherwise being incredibly loud while their parents did nothing is frustrating. This is magnified when the bad behavior occurs during the part of the flight when everyone is trying to sleep. Kids certainly have a right to travel, but common decency dictates that parents beat the responsibility of doing everything possible to minimize disruptions to other passengers.
I’d gladly tell this guy where to go and to show me the law that states that babies cannot fly in first class. This douchebag has to either invest in amazing noise cancelling headphones or pay more money and fly private if he wants that type of exclusivity.
“Should This Be Allowed?”
2 yearolds in FC, hell no.
Our son, now 22, traveled extensively in first ever starting when he was a just few months old (award space was a lot easier to get back then). Once while still a baby he began to lose it. My wife swooped him up in her arms and made a beeline to one of the bathrooms where they spent the next hour.
Seated passengers couldn’t hear a thing. Problem solved.
The question in the post title should be rhetorical…
This guy should rot in hell. Well-behaved children are always welcome up front. I’ve had very few experiences with disruptive children, mostly they’re fine. And it’s my responsibility to bring my music with me. One exception was Polaris IAH-SFO a couple of years ago. Center section, 6 of them creating absolute mayhem for the whole flight. Climbing over the seats, jumping back and forth, screaming with glee. Overseen by a woman, obviously a nanny in a burka, who just sat there making no effort to keep the children occupied quietly. She didn’t read, she didn’t watch a movie, she just sat there with a challenging gaze at whomever glared at her. The message was “Hah, you entitled WASPs up here, there is nothing you can do about these obnoxious children.” Several people complained to the FAs, but the woman paid no attention to their requests to do her job. The Captain came out a couple of times, but took no action. Smart man!
I think the worse behavior was the entitled dude. If he paid too much to be bothered by kids, then he should have paid for a charter flight. He is cheap. If you want privilege, you have to pay for it. I agree with Doug above, I’d tell the guy to go screw himself as I ALSO paid for the tickets, and I’m not flying in coach when I can fly in first just because he thinks he is better than anyone else. My kids deserve to be there just as much as he does.
Being someone that has raised 5 kids, I have taken them in first class plenty of times, and they always were well behaved because we knew how to train them to behave. I never spanked my kids, but I always got compliments on how well behaved they were. When they were young, one scowling look from me and they knew they had misbehaved and straightened up right then.
The thing many parents don’t know is that kids can have ear infections which are painful. They need to know the signs, and maybe give the kid a little Benadryl pre-flight (not to put them to sleep, but to clear their ears out). We also made sure they we did things to keep their ears adjusted to the pressure changes while ascending and descending.
Before the flight we made sure to keep them as active as possible to burn off the energy they had so during the flight they would be worn out so to speak. It’s all about being a good parent and paying attention to your kids instead of yourself. For this jackass to be so judgmental, well go charter a plane, or shut up.
Of course, the issue is not the age of the traveler but the behavior of the traveler.
Roughly six years ago, during election season, I was flying in domestic first on AA from DFW to PHX. It was late and after a long day of meetings. During boarding, after taking my seat, I put my headphones on and was about to take a nap.
I then see this guy boarding. He’s short. He has a cowboy hat on. He’s gesticulating in a manner not dissimilar to Yosemite Sam. And, he sits next to me. While it’s apparent that I’m sleeping, this guy wants to (loudly) talk politics.
All the way up to the door closing, it was: F*** (this candidate). I’m voting for (X). F*** (that candidate). I’m voting for (Y). (Finally, I responded.) Oh, I’m sorry, I’ve had a long day. While I’d love to talk, I was actually trying to catch some winks. (Much to my surprise, he NEVER said, “I hates rabbits.”)
After deplaning, I was amused that this guy continued his gesticulating walk. And, the only thing I could think of was “great horny toads!”
This summer, my family of four endured an 11-hour business class flight (to AMS) next to a screaming two-year old and her mother that made no effort to calm the child. My wife is scarred and now stresses when she sees small kids in F/J that she won’t be able to sleep. Different situation than described in the article but gets back to the whole “should small kids/babies sit up front” conundrum.
“My daughter has been an amazing traveler” says every parent ever.
The entitled gentleman (perhaps I am using this term a bit loosely) is at fault, not you. The purchase of your child’s FC seat was a transaction between you and the airline that had nothing to do with him.
If it makes you feel any better, this man’s reaction was quite unusual – maybe he does not travel enough to be aware that it is quite common for children to fly in FC. My husband and I took our kids to all of the six inhabited continents before age 10, and I can assure you this would not have happened but for our traveling in FC with very young children. And we never had anything even approaching your experience from a fellow passenger in hundreds of FC/biz flights – even on the occasions (yes there were a few) that the the kids were not perfectly behaved.
As another commenter said, indeed this gentleman did not pay enough to guarantee that he would not be seated near children. If it means that much to him, he needs to fly private.
The horrible have been empowered in the USA.
One could even say that they are… deplorable.
well, Sh*t! I don’t know…I think we’d all like to think that if we spend the $$ on First, we ought to be able to assume we leave the rif raff, people who light up midflight, and screamers in the back, and ought to be able to count on some respect, peace and quiet. However, there are always going to be disrespectful people. I’m forgetting, but as I recall, lap kids fly free? And mom was affluent enough to pay for first…so you lucked out and wound up with the kid up there. I probably would have thought what was hurled at her verbally, but would have kept my mouth shut and contemplated a rule to ban kids from first…but that’s not how grownups handle things…is it? I mean the kid is a human…I would personally rather fly on a plane full of service and non service and emotional support animals than one child any day. And let’s not forget…today’s toddler is tomorrows frequent flier…you never know….
This was domestic First, correct? I think dude was setting his expectations of a pleasant flight way too high. Sometimes, flying in coach you have to put up with screaming children. Sometimes, flying in first you have to put up with screaming rich children. Anyway, a child two rows away is about the same as a child 5 rows back, in coach.
Welcome to life. That man was way out of line and she paid too much money to be harassed by that A-hole.
Can children be disruptive- they sure can and as we read this example, so can adults.
I don’t have a problem with parents walking their child up and down the isles, nor do I have problem with crying. Do I sometimes wish it didn’t happen, yes I do, but often times it’s out of the parents control. On a return flight from Hawaii to San Francisco, we sat across the isle from parents of a baby. The baby started screaming bloody murder almost immediately once we were in the air. Nothing the parents did to calm the child was helping. I would say this lasted about an hour. The distress on the Mom’s face said it all- she was very worried about her baby. Finally, over the intercom, there was a request for any doctors on board to come forward. Three doctors and a nurse came to the rescue. Apparently, the baby had an ear infection and the pressurized cabin exaggerated the pain. They were able to get the. baby calmed for the rest of the flight although sometime the baby would cry out. this is all to say you never know what is really going on. I do have to say that everyone on this flight seemed to be patient with the baby. I felt so bad, not only for the baby, but it’s frantic mother too. Children aren’t always able to stay still during a long flight. Give the parents some grace. Not everyone is as perfect as the rude man in the post.
My kids have travelled up front with me many times. Worst time ever was a 5 min stretch when our son had just turned too and wanted to sit on a lap for landing. It was quickly resolved.
My kids know that if they misbehave that they’ll be sent back to economy for the rest of the flight.
This summer in the east bound direction my now 8 y/o son slept 9 out of 11 hours and the celeb seated beside us asked how we make our kids calm on the plane.
West bound he had charmed the flight attendants so much that they spent about 2 hours with him showing him how to do their jobs.
To answer the rhetorical question, while everyone can have good or bad days, you know what to expect from your children and should go based on typical behavior.
By far my worst time in first was when a few passengers decided to turn the F cabin into a loud stag party from London to Vegas.
I assume that a child above the age of 2.0 years old, bought and had their own seat. If so , than the complainer was out of line. If “almost 3” year old was flying as infant in arms, the complainer was still out of line, but so was the family for flying fraudulently.
Entitled dude needs to buy a flight on a private jet if he wants to be guaranteed not to have any children seated anywhere near him. His behavior and attitude were WAY out of line.
Airline sears are available for purchase. People buy these seats for themselves and their families.. and yes, airlines do allow children to be ticketed and sold first class tickets/seats. If super entitled jerkface doesn’t like that, then he can charter a plane and he can be in 100% control of who else is on that plane.
Simply put – husband should have decked the dude (after deplaning, of course)
Years ago my wife, 8yo and 4yo were flying United business on a widebody transcon. She told me some guy really made a scene, loudly complaining that there were going to be kids in business class on the flight. Our kids were behaving perfectly, so my wife told the guy that “It seems you’re being much more disruptive to this cabin than my kids are.” That shut him up.
While I try avoiding being around little children in general 🙂 they have rights just like other humans. How is this different from saying that a person of a certain race or gender orientation is not allowed in first class?
Personally I prefer no children in first class but unfortunately I don’t make the rules so you have to accept it in spite of your personal beliefs.
“British Airways first class is really business class in this regard”… relevant, or just a swipe?
Horrifying the number here who have suggested unleashing a profanity tirade. Which ever way you see it.
Leave the rug rats at home. And no your little Junior is not cute when he is throwing a tantrum.
@Snuggs ORD – not a swipe, *because* BA first class is a product usually considered inferior, it’s more of a business class layout that works with young children in tow
We need to find out the political leanings of all passengers involved. That way we can make a predetermined decision and opinion based on our perceived stereotypes of each political party.
I must be the luckiest traveler in history. I don’t remember a child EVER running up and down the aisles. I’m pretty sure that I’ve heard babies, but it’s never more than a minute. And I don’t think that I have ever seen a misbehaving child in a lounge.
On the other hand, I did get stuck next to a self-important businessman (It’s always men.) who felt a need to chat on his phone all the way until the wheels went up, watched a video on his iphone without headphones and decided that it would be fun to chew with his mouth open while sucking down an egg sandwich.
People who get upset at the mere sight of a child in first class are the ones with the problem. How do they live in what must be a constant state of stress, worrying about everything that could go wrong all the time?
@ Gary
“Several years ago Malaysia Airlines banned babies from first class.”
If you’re talking back in 2011, it was reported that Malaysia Airlines did not equip first class B747 and A380 cabins with bassinets (but did in business class). Travellers with babies were able to travel in business class.
“I’ve found that travel in first class with an infant is great, but with a toddler business class is much better for helping and monitoring (British Airways first class is really business class in this regard)”
Eh? Have you actually flown on the more recent BA first seats? Is this just a gratuitous anti-BA comment or does it have substance regarding travelling with babes?
This is exactly why I never went into the high-end vacation rental business. When you provide a high-end or luxury product, people with money to burn expect a lot and I’m simply not going to kiss anyone’s a$$. Not even for a buck. This family had money to spend on 1st class tickets and they have every right to do so. I think the flight attendants were incorrect to ask them for their boarding passes. They can get that information elsewhere. They should not even have bothered them. What they should have done was to tell the idiot to get in his seat and keep his mouth shut or give up his seat and move to the back of the plane. End of story.
It’s not just about business class, misbehaved kids and parents who don’t address them come in all classes.
Once when I was traveling from DOH to ORD, this kid who must be 4 or 5(May be older, it was long time ago) and was kicking my seat from behind for the whole flight and even after telling her mom, who didn’t take any effort) multiple times.
The parent of the kid should have asked the FA to check the jerks boarding pass!
This news is almost a month old. Also if you’re sourcing stories from Reddit at least mention that.
When I was younger and before I had kids, it happened several times that I was seating close to a baby or toddler who started crying, a tantrum, or otherwise became noisy or disruptive, both in economy and business/first class. Most of the times I tried to be cool and even find something interesting in the middle of everything that was happening, and even if my mood at that time made me frustrated I never let my frustration show up because I always thought that’s the world and the kid and his parents have as much right as I have to be there. In addition, although ignorant parents are out there, many times what we think is an ignorant parent is actually a parent that is doing her best. Even a parent that seems to do nothing may be doing her best. After all, I realized the best and fastest way to calm down my daughter when she starts a tantrum is to absolutely nothing, no word, no reaction, no move, no touch, no hug. I just need be there where she can see me.
This reminds me of the time we flew UA biz class from SFO-SYD with our 15-mo old as a lap child. He generally slept well but woke up halfway through the flight and cried for about 5-10 minutes until we fed him a bottle of warm milk. While I was back in the galley, an old hag told Mrs. B that our child didn’t belong in biz class. Upon my return I asked the old lady if she upgraded into biz and told her we paid for our tickets and if she had anything further to say to speak with me. She promptly shut up. (Of course, I did not disclose we bought $500 mistake fares).
As a UA lifetime 1MM with dozens of TATL and TPAC flights, I can attest that the worst flyers are people who snore loudly and people who insist on keeping the shades up when everyone else is sleeping. Never had a problem with a child.
How sad you must feel on the inside to say such mean things to strangers.
The guy sounds like an entitled jerk.
I and my wife are about to fly a 5 and a half our flight to Mexico in AC domestic business with not one, not two, but THREE children (one 6 year old and a set of 10 month old twins)! I was initially a bit apprehensive about booking business in this situation, reading all the horrible stories (including this one). But then I asked myself, why should I make decisions based on what others think or feel? If one doesn’t like kids around them in any public setting (first class cabins or otherwise), they should really not be living on our lovely planet, which is full of kids!
Now, I can’t wait to meet one of these entitled jerks on our flights. Straightening up one jerk at a time!
Simple response:
“I’m the one with the kids, but you’re the one making all the noise.”
“Now piss off”
For a fraction of the cost of his seat, this guy could have bought himself high quality headphones and never heard a peep out of any children, babies or chatty fellow passengers who enjoyed exactly the same right to be present on the aircraft, in whatever class of service they chose to buy their tickets. The one kid-related air travel issue that cannot be fixed by headphones, which I have both experienced myself and had to guard against happening when traveling with my own children, is the kiddo that kicks the seat back over and over, or plays with the seat-back table in front of him – up-down, up-down, up-down. That’s where parents HAVE to monitor and intervene. Of course, a similar effect happens when PAX in either middle or aisle for whatever reason don’t vacate the row to let one person in window or middle seat in and out, and as a result the adult passenger grabs your seat back to twist themselves out of the row and violently shakes your seat. With children generally, I’m incessantly surprised by parents who fail to plan to gear up so as keep their kiddos comfortable and entertained. That does the child, the parents and everyone around a disservice.
No one will ever agree on this topic. People with kids think it’s their right they’re justified to bring their babies on board. People without kids strongly prefer a child free cabin. I am one of them. People with kids always say oh my child is the best. They’re the most well behaved. I keep them entertained. They don’t seem to hear the shrieking the Gugu gaga the baby noises and all of the other sounds that people without children really do not want to hear. For the record this is the same as people blasting TikTok and YouTube videos at full volume without having to care for anyone around them. I put these in the same category. It’s basically a lack of respect for anyone around you today. That’s where society is.
At the end of the day it’s unfortunate for the child. My suggestion is leave them off a plane. And of course, everybody will have a different opinion. Like I said, no one will ever agree on this topic. Overwhelmingly those without kids prefer no kids on board. Those with kids feel it’s right it’s OK it’s fine. They’re cute. They’re lovely. They’re wonderful. Like I said, no one will ever agree.
I have to wonder how all these entitled parents would feel if they were sitting next to a mentally challenged adult that is constantly making the shrieks, the squeals, the yelps, the hollers and all of the noises that children make. I wonder if their perceptions would change. Just food for thought.
Get rid of first and business class.
No more problem.
They are (and should be) allowed IF their seats are fully paid for. But not if parents bring them as “lap babies” nor if the airline charges anything less than an adult would pay to fly first/biz class
Pity the captain didn’t approach the passenger with the problem and tell him that if he continued to harass the passenger with the young child, he’d be put off the plane and banned from flying that airline.
The captain is in charge and can be asked to resolve such issues. Most are individuals of good will and good judgment and can quell such kerfuffles handily and politely.
Female flight attendants, alas, are sometimes ignored because those creating the disturbance are male chauvinist pigs.
I am very impressed that @Dylan’s children have been trained to behave nicely or threatened to be sent back to endure the horror of Economy!