Flight attendants union head Sara Nelson, whose group represents cabin crew at Alaska, Frontier, United, Spirit, Hawaiian and others, says that:
- The Railway Labor Act, which limits the ability to strike, doesn’t need to be overhauled or repealed
- American flight attendants didn’t need to strike to get their deal, it’s American trying to avoid a strike that got them their tentative agreement
- United’s egregious new flight attendant sick policy will fire up the front line to potentially strike
- Kamala Harris will be great for unions, because she was part of the Biden administration
- A campaign to unionize flight attendants at Delta “has serious momentum”
Oddly Nelson emphasizes that “flight attendants are not paid for every hour on the job” as a key talking point in organizing flight attendants at Delta.
- Non-union Delta has led the way in adding time flight attendants receive compensation
- Sara Nelson wasn’t seeking this in flight attendant contracts before Delta forced the issue
- And even after, didn’t prioritize it right away.
- Yet Delta flight attendants have been the highest paid in the industry, without giving back up to 2% to Sara Nelson’s union.
Delta Air Lines made a revolutionary move adopting boarding pay for flight attendants. Until Delta did it, pay was calculated based on actual flight time and not including time spent boarding. (Pay rates were higher than they otherwise would be to account for this, it’s how unions negotiated their contracts, but flight attendants often mistakenly believe they weren’t “paid for boarding.”)
This pay structure was intentional on the part of contract negotiators because it benefited senior crew (who tend to travel fewer, longer flights and spend less time boarding) at the expense of junior crew (who tend to travel more short flights and therefore spend more time boarding). It redistributed income from junior crew to senior ones, holding total airline labor costs constant. By the way the new American Airlines flight attendants contract is heavily slanted towards senior crew.
But once Delta added boarding pay – without reducing pay rates – unions had to go for this structure. Sara Nelson’s flight attendants at Spirit Airlines didn’t negotiate for it, but American’s Association of Professional Flight attendants (not currently under Nelson’s aegis) got it committed to them last year in bargaining. Now it’s base level expectations at a major U.S. airline, especially since the second carrier to get it was actually non-union SkyWest.
One of AFA’s talking points is that Delta won’t allow them to wear Palestine flag pins anymore, though did not discipline any who did before. Nelson claims flight attendants don’t wear Palestine flag pins “because of what’s going on in the world” these just popped up all of a sudden because it “represents their heritage” (even though in many cases it does not). She seemed far more interested in what was happening in the world when she was speaking out in favor of college campus protests that often supported Hamas and blocked Jews from moving about their schools.
What’s equally interesting is what’s going on at American Airlines, which is unionized but not represented by Nelson’s group. There has been talk of the Association of Flight Attendants – Communications Workers Of America looking to take over for APFA for years. They represented flight attendants at US Airways and many members would like to see the independent American Airlines cabin crew union shelved.
If flight attendants reject the tentative agreement currently in front of them, there will be a new push for AFA-CWA to raid American. Ironically, of course, it was AFA-CWA’s lead negotiator Joe Burns who drove contract talks for APFA, on loan from AFA-CWA. So it’s AFA-CWA’s work flight attendants would be rejecting by seeking out AFA-CWA.
One argument is that APFA isn’t transparent enough. Yet AFA-CWA doesn’t allow direct election by flight attendants of its Master Executive Council officers and international officers. Nelson was shot down in her attempts to change this.
She has less influence, it seems, within her own union than with senior Democratic politicians though she was reportedly passed over to lead the AFL-CIO.
“Kamala Harris will be great for unions, because she was part of the Biden administration” – I almost fell out of my chair because I was laughing so hard when I read this quote.
AI generated art is novel and all, but maybe a little less like the good ol days, eh?
Delta doesn’t need unions, they are always paid well and with a better relationship with management it is going to lead to more employees happier.
Given Delta’s recent meltdown, it’s the infrastructure group who should be bargaining for more pay. But we only seem to hear about pilots and FAz.
Has AFL-CIO even ever had a female president before Elizabeth Shuler? It used to be men, men, men.
It was never likely that Sara Nelson would be in position to replace Shuler. She’s only been there for 3 years so far. And didn’t Trumpka only get replaced when he died about 3 years ago?
What the hell is this article even about, it’s all over the place. Stick to reviewing.
Maybe he’s trying to unleash his inner James Joyce — a la A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man — with letting loose with stream of consciousness.
The saddest part, especially with the AA pilot’s new contract is the Flight Deck is still pulling their same old B.S antics even with a new contract in order to avoid flying in every possible way. They could care less about the operation or the customer. I suspect the Flight Attendants will continue to play the same games. The pilot and flight attendant unions and their careless corrupt members will be the demise of this industry because they just don’t care. The pilots have a god like ego and flight attendants are merely glorified wait staff. For anyone who has ever encountered an emergency situation on an aircraft while ascending or descending, clearly see how prepared these individuals really are, especially the flight attendants who come off more nervous and scared than the passenger! Shame on all these people for their lack of ethical job performance and moral code. What a joke these two groups really are in the end!
@Billy Bob—
That might’ve been true 15-20 years ago, but that DL is long gone.
@Kevin I’m sure 15-20 years ago employees were getting record profit sharing and raises every year . Sad comment and I don’t even work for DL I work for UA.
It’s a comparative statement and not that Delta has reached nirvana.
If you haven’t worked for another large jet carrier in the past ten years, you don’t know what it is really like on the other side of the fence which invariably looks better.
In this case delta flight attendants have pocketed a whole lot of coin while unions at AA and UA still can’t deliver a new contract let alone one that is better than what Delta FAs have
I didn’t know Delta was non-union. But now it explains why I always thought their flight attendants were the best around.
Sara Nelson is a bird brain.
The grass is always greener where you water it, and Delta does a great job with their FAs. No way do they want to get mired down in this union nonsense.
I speak from a point of knowledge here as my wife is a DAL FA, but I don’t understand why AFA and Sara haven’t given up yet.
Delta will throw just enough money at this group to stave off representation. I mean for crying out loud this is going on 10 years of organizing now…
This is just one that Delta is going to win.
@Gary:
How does her saying “I’m not saying that the RLA shouldn’t be amended to put in clear timelines and to make sure that we don’t have these drawn-out negotiations”, translate to “Sara Nelson says…that the the Railway Labor Act doesn’t need to be changed” in your article? It seems like she said literally said the opposite to what you wrote.
Also everyone seems to want to say that Delta FAs are higher paid so have no reason to want a Union. They have no pay protection in IROPs, no proper sick leave and get fired at the drop of a hat, there’s more to life than money guys.
Spare us the incessant fear mongering, Andy.
a 20 year Delta flight attendant has had more opportunities to vote for a union than just about any worker in America -and yet the consistent answer has been no.
All one has to do is know what really goes on with the APFA and AFA to know precisely why DL FAs want nothing to do with the hot mess than union – mgmt relations at other airlines are, esp. for FAs.
Of course it’s not just about money – it’s about not having to be constantly at war w/ your employer and taking it out on your customers hoping you hurt your employer
.
I look at US politics, and I often wonder “what could possibly be worse?” Union leaders is apparently the answer.
Delta please don’t join the swamp! Just took a flight on Delta yesterday and the flight attendants were exemplary! By far the best service amongst leading airlines!
NO UNION!
@Tim Dunn
I’m not really defending unions here, I agree both APFA and AFA have big issues. But to just look at a singular metric and say not having a union is better is just a narrow minded way to view things. Of course unions have to act “at war” with the employer because they constantly need to prove the reason for their existence. Sometimes that existence is justified, sometimes its not.
And I mean sure, if Delta FAs don’t want a union, they don’t want a union and that’s their choice. I’m not trying to encourage them one way or another. It’ll be interesting to see what happens though, I mean if they end up unionizing, then your point that they want “nothing to do with that hot mess” will be incorrect like most of your commentary on Delta. But hey they might agree with you.
We should also not confuse correlation with causation here, yes other airlines have unions and yes other airlines do have worse relations between FAs and management, but that doesn’t mean it is because of the existence of a union. I think it can also be attributed to just bad management, I don’t think anyone on this forum would be championing the great management of AAL for example.
But knowing many Delta FAs, it was incredible to see how upset they were last week due to Crowdstrike and Delta’s complete meltdown. I know one who was stuck in Iowa for 5 days because of their poor handling of the Crowdstrike issue. She wasn’t pay protected (as all the unionized airlines have) and lost the wages that she would have earned over those 5 days and now she’s struggling. I know others who were stuck for 1-2 days and lost pay as well. I mean this happens in IROPs at Delta because of weather etc normally, it is actually part of the reason why they expect to earn more at Delta because they know they will lose money to IROPs, they just didn’t expect it to happen like this. They are all considering joining the “hot mess” that would protect them now…
Delta definitely botched the meltdown last week, ask almost any frontline DAL employee.
Heck even those of us at outside companies were shaking our heads at their ineptness at recovery.
But AFA just simply won’t win this fight. DAL is too good at treating their people awful and then tossing them a bone at the right time.
Delta FA here. You’re wrong. We are pay protected during IROP and certainly were during the Crowd strike debacle. Not sure why your Delta FA friend in Iowa is “struggling”. We were offered triple time to pick up. Either your friend doesn’t know how to use the Delta system or… she doesn’t exist and you’re trying to sensationalize to stoke union support. Not gonna work.
Yes I’m sure when you guys couldn’t get her out of Iowa she was able to pick up for triple time from all of your crew bases there… You can’t pick up if you’re stuck!
I mean it takes a quick google to see the plenty of reddit comments about Delta not having adequate pay protection, so unless this was just introduced – or they have announced they are pay protecting for the Crowdstrike implosion in the last couple of days, then I think my comment still stands.
My friend was stuck in Iowa, and know multiple FAs who got stuck elsewhere. I’m not a Delta FA so can’t claim to be an expert in the systems there, but if there was pay protection it certainly was not adequately communicated to her at that time and caused immense stress and anxiety.
As I said, I’m not trying to encourage folks one way or the other. In fact the threat of a union has done incredibly well for Delta FAs and I would recommend for them to not unionize but continually make sure it appears like a real possibility for the company so they are forced to give their FAs benefits that exceed the unionized airlines. I think this also gives a diversity of value propositions for FAs in the industry, giving FAs a choice of whether they want to be in a unionized company or not. If everyone is unionized (especially under a single union) then all the contracts will eventually match and then prospective flight attendants will probably just be choosing their employer by bases alone.
It’s hard to pick up a triple-time trip if you’re stuck in a city with no flights leaving and/or crew tracking can’t roster you for one.
Some of you are terrified of powerful women, and it shows.
Nelson is the perfect example of what a labor leader should be in 2024.
I was “stuck” in Amsterdam for an extra two days and was fully paid for the privilege. Then, upon return to ATL, picked up a trip at triple time. Sure, it was odd to be asked my current location by crew scheduling, but needs must given Crowd strike problems. I don’t see how paying union dues could possibly have helped with this. If there’s one thing I can say after having worked at Delta for 13 years it’s that they are fair and generous to their employees. I, in turn, give them my all. They will compensate for employee losses in some manner. Not once have I ever felt the need for union representation. Our pay and benefits are top notch without paying extra for outsiders to “represent” us.
The bias of the article, site, and author never fails to make it laughable.
Delta is mostly unionized but keep spewing the anti-union propaganda by calling dues a pay cut. I’m sure the FAs loved being made to sit at the airport for 15 hour days without pay knowing “at least I’m not unionized and delta can fire me for not working this way.”
Stay on the wing. Better yet, stay in your lane and comment on what you comprehend.
@Andy, if losing 5 days of pay protection causes an FA, or any worker for that matter, to struggle, it’s time to get with the program and start budgeting for an emergency. There’s no reason why being stuck in Iowa for 5 days should cause anyone to struggle. Life happens; you gotta roll with the punches. All the Delta FAs I know love their jobs, and definitely don’t want a union. They know better.
@Kevin, I am female. I don’t want anyone representing me, union, strong female or otherwise. Fortunately, I have an employer who listens to me and I love my job so there’s no need.
@Joe—
I said what I said.
Hopefully, your work group gets to vote soon, and you get a chance to have your say.
Andy and Kevin,
the problem w/ the logic of both of your arguments is that DL FAs HAVE VOTED multiple times to reject unionization and are very much capable of not being driven by anecdotes and one-off events that people like Sara Nelson use to try to push an agenda which has failed at most of the US airline industry.
and the problem which you both seem to be unwilling to understand is that unionization sets up a nasty relationship between management and labor that is NOT necessary to get decent economic and non-economic gains.
Anyone that fails to remember that there have been massive disruptions for crew at AA, WN and UA that were very upsetting at the time simply live under a rock.
Airline operations are full of risks; other unionized airlines have had operational meltdowns and will in the future.
For union leaders to use irregular operations as a tool to hide their failures in getting new contracts at AA and UA five years after amendable dates when other workgroups including pilots have received new contracts at those airlines is the height of hypocrisy by Nelson and other leaders.
DL FAs are not fooled.
Nelson and other labor leaders cannot deliver the basic economic justification on which unions exist and try to conflate and confuse a million different issues to hide unions own failures.
Thanks, Tim. I love working at Delta and a union would ruin it. I don’t want to destroy the relationship, trust and communication I have with my employer, I don’t want to have to go 5 years without a raise or pay for the privilege, nor do I want to work with people who are constantly trying to get out of work. We are treated fairly and generously without a union. Period. The union wants our dues money, nothing more.
If DL is half the company they want us all to believe it is, it won’t ruin anything.
Again, if you are actually an FA, I hope your workgroup gets to vote soon, so you can have your say at the ballot box.
@ Kevin. “you can have your say at the ballot box.” Kevin, I’ve been a union member and a domicile representative . . . you vote on what the union says you can vote on, it’s their ballot not yours. Big difference. If one respects their employer then union is not worth 2% pay cut.
As far as DL, I was non-revving on a flight to SLC in Economy. What a lovely experience compared to my last AA DFW to AUS flight, which was in F. If I was starting the airline mileage game I would go with DL, not for the miles but for the superior service and respect for the customer. Perhaps it’s the Southern Hospitality heritage.
The idea that people’s character magically changes with a union vote is wild. And not based on reality.
But I tell you what; let’s let the FA group vote, and if their professionalism immediately drops, we can revisit your point.
I’m and AA FA, and I still want to the RLA to be repealed or overhauled. 5 years to get this TA contract is ridiculous. And could have been achieved faster if we were able to strike when the outdated contract was amendable.
@AA FA
100%. In fact, I’d say it should be scrapped entirely with affected employees falling under NLRB rules.
You’d see a lot less slow walking of contract talks from both sides.
Ummm, Biden told the railroad to pound sand when they were ready to legally strike.
Poor AA headed back in to Chapter 11, being the first ones in this time around. Pitiful, close a hub already AA MGMT!
You should stick to ticket prices and seating. Because, scratching airline execs backs isn’t a good look on you. You don’t have a clue about Flight Attendants or the issues they face. And, it’s painfully obvious that you have underlying resentment toward them.