I’m not interested in debating masks on planes. Let’s just stipulate,
- Planes are safer environments than indoor congregant settings like restaurants and bars where masks often aren’t required
- But masks probably provide some protective benefit
- Though masks that meet the requirement (such as cloth masks) do very little, if you want to protect yourself and others then get a better mask
Early in the pandemic masks gave people confidence to travel, before there were vaccines and as many or as good treatments for Covid-19. You’re in close quarters with other people, so it’s comforting to see everyone else wearing a mask even if you find it uncomfortable to maintain throughout a long travel day.
Outgoing American Airlines CEO Doug Parker made a point, though, in his opening remarks to employees after completing the carrier’s fourth quarter earnings call this past Thursday. His remarks suggested that masks are an impediment to return of business travel. The full return to normal is therefore going to necessarily involve lifting masking requirements.
Dr. Fauci and other Biden administration insiders have argued that masking should be required on planes forever. I’ve suggested that the political realities are that requirements need to be lifted before the midterm elections. Airlines, politicians and the world need to return to normal so there’ll be a drive to ‘declare victory’ over the virus.
While it’s far from guaranteed that Omicron represents the end of the pandemic, there’s a good chance that it does with higher levels of background immunity, hopefully variant-specific or multivariant vaccine boosers, and highly effective treatments like Paxlovid.
Here’s how Parker explained masks – a continued requirement due to the virus surge – and how it affects business travel (emphasis mine),
We need business travel to get back to where it was. It wants to…every time it starts to look like the world’s going to get back to normal, business travel starts ticking up and it starts ticking up pretty quickly – as it did in July, as it started to do in November.
What happens though is anything that gets people to where we all have to wear a mask again, and for companies that have not yet brought people back to work, they delay that. It’s been delayed yet again for a lot of companies around the United States. It’ll come back, and when it does business return, and [we’ll be profitable].
Masks here are a stand-in for normalcy. Parker sees normal around the corner. Of course last month he had to walk back a suggestion to Congress that masks aren’t necessary on planes.
I am personally fine with masks but let’s not pretend they do more than they do. I wanted to wear them during flu season before all of this because I don’t want to get sick, I have too much going on for the forced downtime. And while I don’t love masks, I don’t hate them either. They’re mild discomfort, and mild public health benefit, ultimately a distraction from fixing our institutions that have failed us during the pandemic like FDA and CDC, and from doubling down on testing, vaccines, and treatment.
And horrible comments in 3, 2, 1…..
Not sure why “business” people would not travel just because they had to wear masks on a plane. Much bigger concern should be the meeting in the indoor space they are going to, eating at restaurants, etc, not getting there.
The industries that appear to have the hardest hits from the virus are universities and business travel. The costs charged pre-Covid for a pre-Covid experience are not justified in a reduced service situation. For both of those industries, people are successfully using video and then questioning if they need in person any longer and if so, what price they are willing to pay for it. Lack of service and mask regulations decrease the desire to travel.
Masks are a security blanket for true believers and a political identity symbol for Democrats.
The other 60% of us are collectively over it.
The problem w/ mask mandates is that they dictate the way EVERYONE behaves and not just those that want to protect their own health. Masks in a real airline environment as worn by the general public have never been proven to reduce transmission. The mask mandate is based on theory and practice from other environments and other types of masks. If cutting transmission really mattered, surgical quality masks would be required and they could not be removed for food or drink; do you think that surgeons remove their masks for a drink in the middle of surgery?
Masks convey sickness, I said that more than a year ago on this site, and business travel will not return until the mask mandate and the associate covid mandates are removed as evidenced by the fact that business travel has been stronger in parts of the country with weaker covid requirements.
The best hope for covid restrictions and mandates falling in the US come from Europe where a growing number of countries are dramatically and rapidly walking away from mandates they have had for two years.
Why the fuss? Last 5 flights I was on in business in the last 3 months, the only people wearing masks after being seated were my wife and me.
Nobody cares for whatever reason.
No judgment. Just experience.
Good luck.
The whiners on the Left will shake in their boots thinking someone without a mask will cause them to immediately evaporate.
The whiners on the Right will claim their rights are still be infringed and they shouldn’t have to wear a mask at all.
Which party is in charge?
Masks aren’t going anywhere for a while.
We have have packed indoor arenas at sporting events where masks aren’t required, same deal with restaurants. But on an airplane with HEPA filters masks continue to be mandatory. Someone make sense of that for me.
I remember when the famous English model was videoed wiping down her seat and surfaces with disinfectant before a flight and people thought she was absolutely mad. Now that sort of insanity has been normalized.
Mask requirements have now been withdrawn on flights to, from, and within the UK. Unfortunately BA and Virgin continue them for now, but that’s a step forward. Masks are anti-s
Masks should be optional everywhere. Businesses don’t really want travel to return. They are saving a ton on remote employees, zoom meetings, and such but the first businesses to return to in-person calls is going to gain market share in many cases regardless of masks.
Predictably imbecilic comments by Parker.
It is no coincidence that the UK, which most of the time has no mask mandates, has the biggest death toll in Europe.
I’m a regular business traveller from Australia to the USA, partway through my first trip since Australia reopened.
For me the biggest risk to my business trip is testing positive prior to my long haul departure in either direction, and domestic flights are the biggest threat within that.
I’m already routing through Hawaii due to their stricter mask and vaccination mandates. I don’t go to bars or restaurants until I pass my final PCR 72 hours prior to my return, and I only attend distanced meetings.
Forget the rights and wrongs – I simply can’t afford to catch Covid from the unmasked public.
Does Parker understand that business travellers can’t afford to take unnecessary risks of infection?
I’m all in favor of people who want to use masks, double, triple or quadruple I don’t care what you do. Just don’t force it on me who wish to lead a normal life. Go ahead and jab/booster all you like, I don’t care. Just don’t force me to do it. Until then, I have ZERO desire to travel anywhere that forces the above.
And…….Guess what! The more I do without traveling, restaurants, plays, opera, stadiums whatever that forces me to do something…. the more I find I don’t miss those things. I couldn’t care less if I never visit another part of this world if it continues to play that way. Plenty of other places to live and enjoy my life with like-minded people AND spend my money in that environment.
The mainstream narrative is breaking down! Kudos to England and Massachusetts! It’s only a matter of time before it is done. Will see what we are left with at that point. Future health of many may paint the horrors of what was done to them. Hopefully not but nobody knows.
That last article posted about a 2 year old getting kicked off….Sickening how f’kd up it has become and continues. If only our pilots had some balls to all stay home for a few days. That would change things real quick! Just like the Canadian truckers threatened to do did this week. How quickly people in charge caved in and reversed their decision!!!
If the UK has lifted mandates but BA and VA still require them it’s not a law right? So you don’t have to wear them IMO
I working in a very large consulting firm and I would day about 5/10 of the consulting staff say they chose to not do business travel due to masking. I know it sounds silly to some people but our company books us business class flights every Monday-Thursday for the purpose of being able to focus and work throughout the flight. The mask is a massive obstacle to getting our teams back on the road right now.
Spelling :
I’m working **
I would say**
“Mild public health benefit” ? Just lost total respect
@DavidF:
“I simply can’t afford to catch Covid from the unmasked public.”
Then stay home. Don’t go out in public. Don’t go to restaurants, grocery stores, or shopping malls.
Your first mistake is in thinking you are going to catch COVID if someone is not wearing a mask. It is doubtful that masks did much good anyway with Wuhan COVID or Delta. It is almost certain they do no good at all with Omicron.
But if you feel safer . . .
After all, hasn’t your Aussie government effectively kept everyone locked down for two-years because they are afraid?
It hasn’t affected our business travel much at all. I flew 40,000 miles in 2020 and 80,000 in 2021 and will probably hit 100k in 2022. I realize my mileage is miniscule in comparison to many. However our business has not slowed down at all.
I think that the real impediment to business travel returning is the fact that companies have realized that much more business than previously realized can be conducted without travel . COVID has forced business owners to take a deep dive into all aspects of their respective businesses. Many have come to the conclusion that reducing travel does not necessarily affect efficiency or task completion.
Why send someone on the road for a meeting that can be accomplished via a video or conference call ? Why take someone out of the office for 2 days for a meeting that lasts just a couple of hours ? And let’s not forget that the actual need for large corporate offices is being questioned in certain areas . Remote work , for some , is highly effective and efficient .
So , a dip in business travel can be blamed on mask requirements to prove certain narratives but it’s also possible that the days of extraordinary business travel are over . I was 200,000 mile per year all premium class traveler for years and I loved it . That being said , I can easily see how a significant amount of work that I completed could be done via video call/ remote access
1KBrad’s response to DavidF is exactly the response everyone should have to the people who are still afraid – stay home! Also, David, are you over 75, do you have pre-existing conditions (well defined ones) that contrite to your risk? are you unvaccinated? If you answered ‘no’ to those questions, what statistical/rational thinking leads you to believe you are at risk? It’s been two year, we know very well who gets seriously ill and/or dies, so if you don’t fall into one of those specific categories, what’s the problem?
Here are two headlines that were side by site on TPG’s page today:
“CDC, State Department warns Americans “do not travel” to the Caribbean & other nations due to COVID-19”
“WHO says it’s time to lift COVID-19 restrictions calling travel bans “ineffective””
Anyone hiding behind ‘science’ should get their head out of the sand – there is no scientific consensus on the virus, it is purely political and economic at this point. Everyone has a doctor or health official who says something that fits their beliefs. Unfortunately, with the democrats in power (thankfully only for another 9 months it seems), they will continue to use this to keep Biden away from the press for ‘safety reasons’ and to ridiculously expand ‘voting rights’ to non-citizens and mail-ins that can’t be proven to get themselves more votes. FB, Twitter and most other on-line media (far left) want to perpetuate this because it keeps people at home using their services and supports the previously mentioned left agenda.
If this were really about stopping deaths or public safety then we would ban alcohol and all opioid production, we would make using a gun in a crime an automatic life sentence, a DUI mandatory 10 years, we would ban all unhealthy foods….point is, nobody actually cares enough about health or safety to do anything about the ongoing issues, so why should we believe they care about it in regards to the virus.
@maxie that was the narrative in 2020, but last year all our clients have been requiring us back in person. We no longer travel every single week Jan-dec. But every other week minimum on the road Mon-Thu did return, this is why the removal of the mask will push the workers back into those trips further.
@DavidF So you concede that we don’t need to wear masks to avoid real illness. Rather, you want the rest of us to alter our lives and mask up so that we don’t impact your business trips which in turn have been impacted by senseless Covid rules. Why not fix those stupid rules instead of trying to “fix” the people?
Removing the mask rule will stimulate business travel? NO KIDDING. After two very uncomfortable flights at Christmas, I’m canceling everything until the mask rule is GONE. It’s insane. If you’re worried about your health, DON’T TRAVEL.
To reply to the comments above:
1. I’m a doctor. The scientific evidence is clear: N95/KN95/KF94/P2/FFP2 masks massively reduce transmission and until the pandemic ends, they should be universal.
2. Countries like the US – with its low vaccination rate and lack of vaccine passports – and UK – where almost all restrictions were axed – have succeeded only in having appalling death numbers and economic ruin. Florida has a smaller population than Australia, but 30 times more deaths.
3. Both business travellers and tourists need certainty that they will be able to return to work on time. Both the Australian and US governments require negative Covid tests to fly internationally – so not having mask or vaccine mandates turns international travel into Russian Roulette.
Normal life requires the pandemic to either end or be aggressively suppressed through masking and vaccination.
Abandoning public health measures because you are bored or stupid or macho – or all three – just prolongs the disruption and damage.
a) if you don’t wear a mask – stay home
b) if you don’t want to vaccinated and boosted – stay home
Unless everyone is boosted and provides a negative test masks are a needed instrument to limit risks
Masks, Vaccine and Science are non political.
I really dont get this “let’s not pretend mask do more than they do” trope. I see 10 patients every day with omicron and having been doing so for weeks. I wear an n95 and haven’t gotten Covid. Either I am extraordinarily lucky, or a well fitted high quality mask does a lot.
@Maxie Dean:
“I think that the real impediment to business travel returning is the fact that companies have realized that much more business than previously realized can be conducted without travel . COVID has forced business owners to take a deep dive into all aspects of their respective businesses. Many have come to the conclusion that reducing travel does not necessarily affect efficiency or task completion.”
They said the same thing after 9/11.
While it sounds great in theory, it doesn’t work well in the real world.
Client relationships require personal interaction. Video is a very poor third place alternative that may work to some extent with existing clients, but generates no loyalty with new clients.
Significant business travel will be back once the hysteria subsides.
@Bk – you say all the clients required the consultants to be in person last year. how did / do the 5/10 consultants who refuse to travel get away with it
@DavidF-You’re much too hysterical to actually be a “doctor”. At least a medical doctor,
@Marc:
Show me a real world study, not some theoretical results in a lab, that masks help against Omicron.
Don’t buy into the nonsense just because you are told something. Make them prove it to you.
@DavidF:
Almost NO ONE is wearing an N/KN95 mask.
As you very well know.
You aren’t sitting 6″ from a total stranger who may have covid in a restaurant.
Your argument is fallacious.
@I’m a Doctor….
I wish I had a five dollars (use to be a nickel but with inflation….) for every person who says “I’m a Doctor” and then proceeds to throw out ridiculous statements clearly showing they have no idea of the real facts. So thankful I don’t have any of these “doctors” in my life!
This thread has been very entertaining/disheartening.
Oh, and occasionally cumenters
moke fun at Gury fer his speling butt I cee lots more ov mistakoos (purr capitah) in the cumments…..
So Douggie says masks have to go but he’ll cave to the unions so we get coach-like service in International First? Asshat.
lol…business travel will continue to thrive where it’s absolutely necessary. Like if something needs to be hands on fixed or looked at.
What is dead is OPM flying for meetings, especially in sales and consulting.
Masks have nothing to do with this. Just that corporate overlords have figured out that a lot of their minions work can be done remotely.
@greg
Hybrid model. Senior members/partners travel weekly with some of the consulting team that’s comfortable on the road. While the ones that find the travel a hassle are able to provide support for the projects remotely. We’re basically told this is an open for the junior staff until things are fully “normal”, which then it’ll be a requirement to be on the road ( less days/month than 2019 though)
The vulnerable and hysterical people have two options they didn’t have at the beginning of the pandemic: vaccines and plentiful N95 masks. It’s time to go back to personal responsibility for those that this virus is not kind to. They have options now. Let the rest of us get back to normal
That said, masks truly have become the MAGA hats of the leftists.
@DavidF,
By saying “masks massively reduce transmission and until the pandemic ends, they should be universal.”, if N95s happen to be partially effective at slowing transmission, it only serves to prolong and drag out the pandemic for a longer period. If whole population has to eventually catch omicron why not let it run its course, get it over with faster which is already happening without temporary band aids and senseless restrictions
@Jorge Paez – Wow, did you call that one right. You were Casandra and they still did it.
Business traveler here in finance. Pre COVID did $200K of airfare p.a., all purchased J/F. Last two years were maybe $25K per year.
The main reasons I am not traveling much now are: 1) not as much need, because clients don’t expect it or don’t want to meet; 2) urban luxury hotels are broken and too annoying to deal with; 3) too many travel pain points like long Uber waits, restaurants not functioning well, long waits at Clear, etc.; 4) higher possibility of having to deal with badly behaved people, stressed/ill people, or inexperienced people on planes or otherwise; 5) private planes are an option.
masks on planes don’t have much to do with it, but I don’t really care one way or another as to whether airlines/government mandate masks. Compared to broken Four Seasons, masks aren’t really top of mind for me.
LOL in general @davidF – on your #2 comment specifically – the economic ruin isn’t because of the virus, it’s because of the overly strict policies that continue to keep people out of work. It’s not just economic ruin, a generation of underprivileged children who lost 2 years of critical school while their wealthier counterparts did not suffer nearly as much. Which do you think is worse for the future of our country, some already old and unhealthy people dying (or getting sick) or damage we did to those kids for the rest of their lives.
So you’re a doctor (lol again) – let me ask you this…while you did a nice job of mentioning 2 somewhat accurate stats in #2, do you care to break those down any farther or do you want to leave it at the populations are apples to apples comparisons and the virus impact all people equally even though Florida has an entirely different demographic make-up (age, overall health, etc…) and density distribution you think it’s fair to compare them to Australia? People who throw out stats with no context are worthless – why don’t you speak about the bias of the virus and how we create a policy that addresses those at risk while letting the rest of us just live our lives? Finally, on that point, look at the stats today – you can talk about the numbers leading up to mid-2021 as much as you want, but do us all a favor and talk about them as they stand now.
As a side note, the science you refer to is not universal as experts all over the world have different opinions. The CDC is constantly changing it’s guidance, the Biden administration is, well, I can’t believe it, but more incompetent than any republican (or democratic) administration I can think of, so there’s no clear directive from them other than whatever suits the party interest – actually not even the party interest – just the administration’s.
All in all, there’s no actual reason to continue any restrictions, if someone is worried they can just stay home or wear a mask. If you wear a mask and have been vaccinated it shouldn’t matter what anybody else does? What are your thoughts on that last statement David?
@DavidF
You’re a “doctor” of what exactly? Gender studies?
@Luke
The whole population does not have to catch each strain – only around 25% of people catch any strain. Each person who I necessarily catches any given variant is just an economic liability for society.
@Charlie M – I live in an Australian state with the same demographics and climate as Florida. Our population of 5 million, with a larger percentage live in towns and cities, had had less than 100 deaths. Florida has 21 million people and currently has had 64,000 deaths.
The reason mask requirements and recommendations keep changing is because the amount of circulating virus changes. The experts are not flip-flopping, rather the situation constantly evolves.
Not wearing a mask in 2022 is the precise equivalent of being gay in 1985 and refusing to wear a condom. People are exercising their “individual choice” to endanger other better and more responsible people. Except at least the reckless ones in 1985 were only endangering people who could choose not to get infected.
I find these comments – particularly Doug Parker’s – extraordinary from residents of a country which is going to rack up a million dead by May 2022.
Way to go USA! 3,866 preventable deaths yesterday and climbing,
Just a bunch of shallow self-centered individualistic snowflake whiners who can’t even put on a mask to protect each other.
Shameful.
DavidF,
don’t even bother to quote the mortality stats for covid because we now know that they have been inflated throughout the pandemic. Even Florida and New York’s governors (oposite sides of the aisle) have told hospitals to stop lumping every person that tests positive in a hospital into the same covid positive or covid death groups. People have said from the beginning that the US was overcounting covid – driven largely because the US government decided at the beginning of the pandemic to add extra compensation for covid patients so why wouldn’t they call everything covid that they could – and that is exactly what is now being confirmed.
You enjoy Australia. We’ll enjoy the US of A.
Thanks Christian! Just trying to lighten the mood…..
@DavidF:
I appreciate that you came back because I realize some of the comments have been harsh. Thank you.
Some serious questions:
The U.S. has 800,000 dead attributable to Covid. Is that 800,000 dead FROM Covid, or 800,000 dead who HAD Covid?
It is interesting that Dr. Fauchi makes this distinction when talking about the hospitalizations of children.
Secondly, California and New York imposed mask mandates and lock-downs, yet their numbers are not dramatically different than those in Florida and Texas. Why?
Thirdly, how is Oz doing with Omicron?
Regards.
This premise is ridiculous. As Gary well knows business leaders are conservative by nature. They don’t want to be sued when employees travel, get sick and maybe die. So the natural instinct is to restrict travel until we are more certain that all vaccinated travelers will not get seriously ill.
In addition business travel is not possible to most of Asia and in other places it is difficult to even hold meetings due to state and county restrictions. Not to mention conventions. So there is no point in traveling.
Finally, and most importantly there is still a significant % of employees who are afraid to travel, even though it is by and large safe to do so. Those people will quit, which would be counterproductive for business.
Business travel will return when our leaders admit that the virus is here to stay and stop shutting down schools and offices. I expect this will occur when hospitals are empty and the unvax are either deceased or gain herd immunity.
Masks on airplanes are a minor inconvenience, just like water confiscation by security.
Davidf – If you’re a doctor, I’m Dr Fauci
And a lab in China didnt create the virus
Continue to live in fear out there..
@DavidF,
Seems you may still think this can be contained after all we’ve seen last two years.
Sure maybe it can if whole world adopts China’s zero tolerance strategy which may work but at costs we all know so don’t need to spell out.
So takes me back to the point I was saying unless this as as long as this nuclear drastic option isn’t pursued, all rules and restrictions on people’s lives is only noise that will drag out the inevitable rather than naturally letting it run course.
And the winner of today’s most ridiculous statement is….”when hospitals are empty and the unvax are either deceased or gain herd immunity.” So either 50 million of the unvax will die of Covid and/or whatever variant “appears” next or the unvax will magically gain “herd immunity”! On that comical note I am off to sleep.
But one last thing…..
In its weekly reports, the United Kingdom has said as many as 80 percent of its Covid deaths are in vaccinated people. In the last several days, New South Wales, the most populous state in Australia, has reported over 70 percent of its surging Covid deaths in the vaccinated.
UK SOURCE: https://(space) assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1049160/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-3-2022.pdf
AUSTRALIA SOURCE: https://w w w dot health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20220121_00.aspx
And the winner of today’s most ridiculous statement is….”when hospitals are empty and the unvax are either deceased or gain herd immunity.” So either 50 million of the unvax will die of Covid and/or whatever variant “appears” next or the unvax will magically gain “herd immunity”! On that comical note I am off to sleep.
But one last thing…..
In its weekly reports, the United Kingdom has said as many as 80 percent of its Covid deaths are in vaccinated people. In the last several days, New South Wales, the most populous state in Australia, has reported over 70 percent of its surging Covid deaths in the vaccinated.
UK SOURCE: assets dot publishing dot service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1049160/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-3-2022.pdf
AUSTRALIA SOURCE: health dot nsw dot gov dot au/news/Pages/20220121_00.aspx
That’s stupid and the reason why we are where we are as a country.
I wish all our problems were as easy to solve as wearing a mask.
@Gary – anti-vaxxing mouth breathing repeated misinformation-spreading poster “Todd” once again posting false information. Linked to in your hometown paper actually: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/12/02/vaccinated-people-england-not-dying-faster-than-unvaccinated/8821594002/
I see why the US can’t win any wars they enter and start now, the citizens are a bunch of cry babies. Whine over a mask. You act like 2 year olds. Oh yes, forgot, you base it on your “freedom”. What a joke.
The covid virus doesn’t care about the “return of business travel.” Any talk of ending the mask mandate on airplanes during a pandemic in order to increase business travel is sheer nonsense and won’t happen under this administration as long as the mandate is needed. The anti-maskers are the same type of folks who were against seat belts and motorcycle helmets and hopefully I won’t encounter them on my first class flight to Europe next summer.
It’s the last days of Rome, Ray, 2022 edition.
Time to cull the herd…..
attaboy Ed A
100% agree w/you.
In early December, my county of about 110,000 people was averaging 60-70 new COVID cases a day. Yesterday we had 1,100, not including of course home testing.
But sure-it’s the mask nuisance that’s keeping me home.
@Todd
This is all about the interpretation of simple statistics.
In New South Wales you are 24 times more likely to require ICU or die if unvaccinated than if triple vaxxed. And 9 times more likely to require ICU or die if double vaxxed rather than triple vaxxed.
Just because “most” deaths are vaccinated doesn’t mean the jabs don’t protect you against serious illness or death. Because well over 90% of the population is vaccinated – unlike in the USA.
Unfortunately this virus is mutating quicker than the vaccines can be updated. So they protect against death but not infection.
So all but one state in Australia has recently reopened and our infection rate is very high. But our death rate remains far lower than in the USA because a much higher percentage of the population is vaccinated.
The USA suffers this awful triple whammy of having a completely inadequate vaccination rate, a large section of the population which refuses to mask and a large section of the population which refuses to distance. Hence the current US tally of 0.65 deaths per 100,000 population per day, which is truly shocking.
This is common around the world in cohorts which obtain their “news” from Facebook. But it is why the USA’s current daily death rate is triple Australia’s even though the infection rate is actually lower.
In effect, like the UK, they are trying to pretend that the pandemic is over and are piling up the coffins which are the consequence of such behaviour.
But it is shocking to imagine that an airline could advocate unmasked flights in mid-pandemic. It’s irresponsible to the point of psychopathic.
Until the freedoms fighters on the site actually has a loved one die or die from COVID themselves, they’ll continue to scream about a little piece of fabric covering their mouths.
As they drink and smoke and eat their way into cardiac and pulmonary oblivion…good riddance and God Bless America.
None of the mask enthusiasts commenting here have heard a thing about the latest science. Omicron is 98% of all new cases. Omicron is overwhelming a mild illness. The booster has shown more susceptibility to omicron than the previous strains. The unboosted are Less susceptible to omicron. We’ve had more deaths in 2021 year with a vaccine and than all of 2020 with no vaccine.
Masks , the way we wear them and in the environments we wear them are…..99% useless. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blinded by left wing media, NOT science. I have doctors in the family…they get FITTED for masks. We wear them loose and the saemones all day. Germs get in and get caught in the mask. If you have one of these masks on and you sneeze and think the mask kept the sneeze in….. well let’s just say we can all believe what we want to believe. I saw. FREEDOM!!! Let people make their own choices. Want to wear a mask.. go for it!! Who the hell is JOE BIDEN or FAUCI to tell me or you what to do. You can wear 2 masks and a HAZMAT suit for all I care… YOUR choice.
@SMR “If you have one of these masks on and you sneeze and think the mask kept the sneeze in”
Well I hope so. That’s certainly one of the reasons to have the mask on. I’m baffled by the people I see wearing masks who then remove it to cough.
As for fit testing, sure, respirators used under OSHA regulations must be fit tested. This is not news. OSHA isn’t regulating Covid, so that regulation doesn’t apply. A medical mask that is reasonably well fitting will substantially reduce the percentage of virus particles that spread a great distance from you out of the total number that you emit, regardless of whether it is fit tested. And it will similarly substantially reduce the number that you inhale that were emitted by an infected person standing next to you. This is not hard.. Is it not a zero sum game for most people (e.g., inhaling one virus particle is unlikely to get you infected). It is a percentage game (as are all things in life), and you want to reduce as much as possible the amount of virus you inhale.
I’ve been out in the world since ~June 2020, and have not caught Covid. I have no intention of catching it. I’ve taught 4 university classes, in person, during it. Students and myself were all masked. I was first in line to be vaccinated, and got boosted back in Sept when it was first available in the US. I shop regularly in stores. We even ate out in restaurants a few times in the fall (not recently though). I was on ~25 individual flight segments in 2021, although all for leisure.
If I had work travel (and I did have a lot before the pandemic) I would not hesitate to get on a plane wearing a mask. Business travelers who refuse to travel over a mask requirement must not like their jobs very much. I want to do my job. If I need to travel for it, I will jump through the minor hoops (mask, vaccination proof, etc.) needed to complete that travel. This is no different than traveling to countries where vaccinations (non-covid) are required for entry, and we all did that back in the day.
If you want a mask, wear one
If you want a shot, get one
If you want social distancing, do so yourself
If you want covid, do all of the above or nothing at all. Either way we’re all going to get it. Why f*ck the economy over a virus that kills under 1% of the world’s population? If the numbers are all confirmed, real, not lumped in with a plethora of other pre-existing conditions?
Go ahead, seethe.
@Jay
You don’t appear to understand the facts that you are quoting.
Our vaccines are for the original Wuhan strain, not the more virulent and serious Delta strain, let alone Omicron. That is why they don’t prevent infection although they massively reduce deaths.
Omicron causes less lung damage than Delta, but has similar case fatality rates in the unvaccinated to the original Wuhan strain, and even double jabbed people can be killed by it, although triple jabbing massively reduces mortality.
The slight reduction in seriousness of Omicron is more than cancelled out by its increased infectiousness: Delta infection rates rarely exceeded 70 per 100,000 people per day during an outbreak whereas typically five times as many people catch Omicron each day.
This is why masking in public places is so crucial in suppressing Omicron infection, and why any airline executive opposing it is unfit for his or her position and is a menace to society.
This pandemic doesn’t end because selfish snowflakes are too delicate to wear a mask. If you cannot or will not wear a mask during an outbreak phase of an airborne pandemic you are not fit to be allowed out of your house.
People should stop flying for unnecessary reasons. You just keep on spreading the virus. With or without a mask, sooner or later you will get infected. Mind to stay in your area and keep a safe distance to orders. Follow the rules.
“ Why f*ck the economy over a virus that kills under 1% of the world’s population?”
If that’s *all* it does, you cool with healthcare workers not having to treat those who don’t mask and aren’t vaccinated if they get COVID?
Boy bye.
You, Gary Leff, are part of the problem. You WANT to believe that masks “work.” You’re smart enough to know they don’t work “very well,” but you believe they help. You believed that before Covid, and you believe that now. The problem is that despite your desire to protect yourself, your mask won’t. Unless you’re going to wear a very uncomfortable fitted “hospital” mask, they’re useless. And, even then, the evidence hospital masks work against respiratory virus infection is scant.
https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
Daughter: Mom, what is that round spot on your arm?
Mom: it’s my Small Pox vaccination Scar
Daughter: Why don’t I have one?
Mom: Because it worked.
@DavidF –
Your use of “snowflakes” and your statement “ not fit to be allowed out of your house.” really shows your immaturity and knowledge in this matter for a “supposedly” doctor!
I was going to suggest you look up todays article “How COVID Shots Suppress Your Immune System” regarding a senior research scientist at MIT for the last five decades. However, I don’t think you could comprehend it. But give it a “shot” anyway.
I am finding that I agree with Todd. Travel is no longer the same. I love to travel–well, I love the way we used to travel–but it’s different now, before, during, once you get there, once you come back. It really takes the joy out of the equation. I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault, but between staffing shortages, illogically applied restrictions due to Covid, unavailability of products and services, poor attitudes and service, and more, it’s a lot less joyful. And it makes me not want to travel nearly as much. Which is not great news for the travel industry.
We were looking at going to Cancun, the six of us, at some point this year. The thought of paying the exhorbitant hotel rates we were seeing in order to get no club lounge service, no or limited housekeeping, the risk of belligerent mask-nazi flight attendants on the way traveling with our twin one-year-olds, and then other assorted difficulties? Nah. We instead rented a beach house we can drive to at our leisure. That would have been close to ten grand we would have spent in flights and hotels, gone–and I promise you it’s because we knew things wouldnt’ be the same, and while some of that is because Covid is Covid, a lot of it is because of the self-inflected wounds of the travel industry.
For anyone wondering about Anti-Vaxx Misinformation Spreader Todd’s latest bleating, here’s the scientist he is touting…seems like MIT would love nothing more than to sever the link between the university and her:
Her various papers, presentations and essays, formerly archived on her MIT server account, have largely been removed by the university and the links now generate 403 “forbidden access” results. Emails between organic industry representatives and activists at environmental advocacy groups revealed that Seneff’s claims have even been privately dismissed by fellow biotechnology and pesticide critic Michael Hansen, a senior scientist at Consumers Union. Hansen referred to Seneff and her frequent collaborator Anthony Samsel as “loons”, writing that “significant portions of grass roots activists buy into their nonesense…”
@DavidF
No Australian city has the same demographics as Florida.
For once I agree with Parker although not for the reason he suggested. He infers companies are not allowing personnel to fly because the mask mandate makes people think the danger is imminent. I am self-employed and thus make my own travel decisions. I am vaccinated. Had a mild case of Covid, then had the booster. But I am not wearing a mask just to ride on an airplane. I do all of my travel by car now and have done so all over the central U.S. and most of the south where mask mandates have not been effect or not enforced. I went from Exec Plat 19 years running to 0 flights in the past 2 years simply because I am not going to participate in their circus. And I have enjoyed the freedom from cancelled flights, delays, and the mask police immensely. I doubt I will ever fly as much again but for sure I will not fly as long as mask are required. Covid is here from now forward. Just like the flu there will be some variant every year. Time to treat it for what it has become, an endemic illness. For those who look down their nose and say it is just a piece of cloth, then you wear it and be happy. You are protected from the germs of other people if you wear the right mask. Leave the rest of us out of your nonsense.
DavidF – wow, 64,000 deaths out of 21 million people over 2 years…yes, let’s destroy all lives for .003% of the population, keeping in mind that the .003% were in a very specific demographic of people with pre-existing conditions and advanced age.
You never answered any of my direct questions – probably because the answers go against your position.
You also fail to realize that hospitals are financially incentivized to report deaths as COVID because of reimbursement from the federal government.
I don’t believe there is consensus among the experts, people choose to follow whichever one agrees with them. WHO and CDC say total opposite things at the same time. Just yesterday WHO said all restrictions should be lifted and are ineffective (google it) while the CDC said Americans should avoid international travel due to the dangers.
Furthermore – why don’t you address the current situation instead, seriousness of the illness, demographics of people who are getting it.
I also find it hard to believe any Australian state has the same population density as Florida or if your town has the same density and demographics of Miami. Which city/state are you talking about. If it’s as you say, we can’t find out who you are (while you are clearly lying about it anyway) just with DavidF to go on.
It’s not the mask that makes me not want to travel. It is testing to get on the plane, risk of quarantine in a bad overpriced hotel, things shut down or having to show your COVID pass everywhere. So I’ve been traveling a lot domestically. Who knows when international travel will be decent again.
What the Parkers of the world are eventually going to learn is that business travel is NEVER going back to normal. My employer used to spend $50-75k a year flying me around the globe to do my job. In the past two years they spent a grand total of $0. And I probably been at least 95% as effective. The bean counters have realized just how much of a waste a lot of business travel is and they’re not going to allow expenses to return back to that level again now that they’ve seen what we can do remotely. I love the perks of being able to travel for work but once this is all “over” I’ll be lucky if I’m able to do 25% of the travel I used to.
@DavidF You claim that we should keep mask mandates because N95/K95 masks work, but that is a completely irrelevant response, is materially wrong, and in the end wouldn’t matter anyway.
It’s a non-sequitur to respond about the efficacy of N95/K95 masks, because the mask mandate doesn’t require them, and in fact the great majority of people aren’t wearing them, and wouldn’t wear them due to discomfort, but instead where cloth or surgical masks, which not a single Random Controlled Trial has shown any statistically significant benefit.
There is precious little evidence that N95/K95 masks work in any material way anyway, but even assuming they did offer some benefit, nobody can or will wear them forever, and when you give up you WILL get omicron just like everybody else (assuming you haven’t already had it). So unless you plan on requiring the world to wear N95/K95 forever, and building lots of prisons for people like me who will never comply, it would be a meaningless and theatrical gesture.
This has largely become a pandemic for the UNvaccinated people. Those people are choosing to take risks and quite frankly, they should just be able to do as they wish. If they get sick and it gets fatal, they took the chance. Those who actually are doing the right thing should not continue to be punished through mandatory testing on international arrivals (if you are fully vaccinated) and yes, masks should be optional. I’m a science-follower (and on the liberal/democratic side of the political spectrum), but those who choose risks should deal with it. Those who do the right thing should be rewarded. I like some of the things that France has done to basically ban any unvaccinated person from pretty much any public venue. Good for them. We’d be much further along if that were the case here.
So many comments
This why I love this blog
Thank You Mr. Leff
the highwire dot com slash watch – live discussion right now with Senator Ron Johnson and multiple doctors discussion everything Covid. Looks like we may have a breakthrough…. FDA may actually sit down and talk with the opposing side!
@ Arthur. The same here. I can control whether or not I get vaccinated or wear a mask, but I cannot control whether I will have a positive COVID test. That’s enough to put me off of international travel for a while. I do have a trip to Portugal tentatively planned for this fall, but whether it will happen is an open question. I may well end up canceling it and opting for a road trip instead.
He is correct. Ifind it impossible to sleep with a mask and have refrained from Transatlantic travel
Working in emergency med for over 30 years and dealing with all kinds of things I want you all to know if you believe the masks you are wearing protect you, well ok hope you feel better but they don’t unless they are fitted. We are not traveling on long flights and transatlantic in first class until the mask is gone because it takes away the pleasure of relaxing and hearing the FA talk about masks every five minutes. The mask for children is beyond stupid but who am I, keep drinking the koolaid if you think they work!