The only things I delete in the comments at View From The Wing are:
- Extreme offensiveness – racism, misogyny, graphic sexuality.
- Non-public information about individuals – the full name and address, for instance of another commenter who uses a pseudonym.
I’ve been pretty lax in doing that. I’ve never once gotten an email from a member that I can recall thanking me for having such a light touch in the comments. I’ve gotten many emails like this one questioning the value of the comments section that flows from such a light moderating touch,
So I’m not a fan of the comments section of your blog. That’s mostly because it adds so little value to any conversation you start, and you have an abnormally high number of jackasses commenting on your site. For some reason you like engaging some of these folks, but I really question whether the majority of your readership shares that interest.
However I’ve long been reluctant to ban commenters or censor ‘the jackasses’.
My general approach is that ‘it’s the internet’ and that what someone writes reflects more on their own character than on anyone else. I’ve been a denizen of the internet for more than 20 years, and I probably have too pollyannaish a view of what kind of free speech community it was supposed to become that derives from a mindset formed in the early 1990s.
More importantly though I question my ability to be particularly Solomonic in my approach to moderating comments. It’s too easy to let distaste for a commenter’s truly offensive posts become a slippery slope into dislike for someone who thinks I’m deeply and morally wrong on some issue. Wouldn’t the comments be much nicer without their invective? Wouldn’t it be nicer without the commenter who says I’ve got no idea what I’m talking about?
If I start down this road, anyone becomes a target for banning or comment deletion if they disagree with me or call me out. So I tend not to delete comments or ban commenters… even when they cross into the two areas that I’ve said aren’t acceptable in the comments here.
Which is a long way of saying that for only the third or fourth time in almost 15 years at View From the Wing I’ve gone ahead and banned a commenter. I also deleted a different commenter’s “contribution” yesterday which came close to advocating violence.
I’m pretty sure I’ve done the right thing in these cases, and I wonder what readers think about my approach and whether I should rethink it with a goal of developing a comments section that is more useful and constructive, of commenters sharing not just their opinions but their experiences, as a way of helping other readers dive further into an issue or offer that I write about? Should I be taking more of an active hand in the comments than I do?
Right of admission reserved.
It’s your blog, so of course you’re right.
If someone doesn’t like it he/she should move on.
I enjoy most of your blog, the parts I don’t I ignore.
And I do appreciate your comments on this issue too.
I’ve never understood why bloggers or anyone else would be reluctant to ban a poster or delete their post. They aren’t paying squat to read the blog. It’s your blog. You can do what you see fit.
There’s the old saying, “Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me.” This is a good approach for most blog comments sections except when someone threatens to use “sticks and stones.” So I would ban threats but not much else.
Sounds like you are doing it about right. I don’t like censorship, but when people use their speech to advocate violence or hatred, it may be time to ask them to clean up their act. If they can’t be civil, they should find other places to “express themselves.” There are plenty of those places on the internet these days, for better or worse (worse I think – it seems we as a society are getting uglier rather than more civilized). It’s your blog, and I respect your right to make it reflect your values, but thanks for asking.
I like the idea of readers sharing their experiences. I know I feel victorious when I follow your advice and achieve the the stated goal. Reading other’s victories could help spur on an approach I might not take until I see that someone else (besides you) did it.
As far as haters go; They should follow the adage, “Take what you need and leave the rest.”
Your blog, your rules.
Happy New Year.
If they can’t behave themselves and clearly are present solely to disrupt, ban ’em.
Sounds like you’re violating the First Amendment of the Constitution, but what do I know?
Your boy Barry’s the expert.
I wish you were more ethical in regards to the fact you often advocate a credit card when its only in your interest. I think being more transparent would be a nice resolution.
Like the “no fly list,” this person may have been banished from other blogs. I predict this person will now become a future graffiti artist.
By the way, Clinton Denizens. Some lessons in the years ahead.
1) There is no such thing as a “hater” . It’s a construct of your own mind. You believe everybody wishes to be “you” therefore anyone who doesn’t think like “you” must hate you. Incorrect, they simply aren’t like “you”
2) Yes you’re very good at the shell game. And playing well after all it’s my ball isn’t it? That is right up until the very moment where somebody steals that ball ( legally of course no fouls) and dunks on you. Then they just once again…. “hatin'”
Good Luck in the “YEARS” .. yes many… ahead.
I agree with the early consensus of removing comments or commenters who you deem need to be removed.
Yes, slippery slope and all that. But that’s a challenge to yourself to be objective and make those decisions. As a blogger you are already swimming in that ocean every day, every time you post. So why treat the comments section any differently when you’re already having to make those value judgements about everything you write?
There are hateful people in the world, and I don’t see any reason to allow them an outlet. Hateful comments add no value and do have a negative impact on others.
I think you’ve take the right approach, Gary. I would much rather have you spend time on interesting content than policing each and every comment. If someone really crosses the line, though, toss ’em.
Gary, I agree with you, many of the responders have gotten out of hand. I also submit some of the responders have little to no knowledge of what their saying, seriously.
On the other hand many of the “Blogs” have gotten carried away as well. It seems everyone is a travel expert. Last year I did 122K business travel alone, coupled with a total of 150K overall that has been a close average for the past 10 years. I do not consider myself an expert nor would I ever even consider writing a blog. Some of the bloggers self serving, almost a cut and paste of some else ‘s post. Many many rehashing the same topic. One of the biggest is the 380 and “look at me in FC”.
When these blogs started to appear on a regular basis I enjoyed them and they were very informative, now it’s all about getting “hits”.
Your’s is one of the best and for me the only one that I read and heed.
Thanks for the good work Gary and Happy New Year Safe Travels
You’re pretty tolerant so I would imagine if you were moved to ban somebody, they probably super really deserved it. People ca. Be such trolls…. especially when they hide behind a keyboard. Don’t sweat it. You did the right thing. Thanks for the excellent blog and Happy New Year!
They may need some mental health help if your blog causes such reactions. At any rate, not your problem. You don’t have to permit garbage. Disagreements are inevitable. I just unfollowed travel bloggers who posted a “positive” tweet including the F word. Wow, I thought these people were decent, but they’re not. I can handle the “F” word in context though I definitely don’t say it. –Thanks to my religious training and background, but I don’t seek it out and I will judge your character and intellect for using it for NO reason.
@Gary: @Jack: +1. Little to add beyond what was said, except wondering if people have become more unhinged recently or if that’s always been the case…
Safe travels in the new year and thanks for all the work which goes into making VFTW.
Gary, do you read all comments left in your posts? If yes, I guess you should “filter” them to keep your blog a family place. However, make sure you have clear rules on what is not appropriate. It would be a disaster for your blog if you start deleting comments just because they disagree with you (which I don’t think you ever done). Another option is to look for auto filters that will ban offensive comments. I am an active participant in a car forum and if you enter any offensive words in your comment it won’t publish it until you soft the tone of your words. The problem in filtering all comments is that it is very time consuming.
I can’t imagine in what context anyone might advocate violence in relation to air travel or others’ comments about it so yes I think deleting or banning in this or similar instances is the right thing! Too many people hide behind the anonymity of online fora to release poisonous and unnecessary attacks which are destructive, not constructive, and I don’t think that’s the point of a blog or its comments section.
In any case keep up the great work of your blog, I really enjoy it.
I am not a fan of reading comments that have nothing to do with the blog subject, so if I ihave to pick through comments to read others opinions and many are just irrelevant then I won’t bother. I would prefer those be deleted, I don’t follow your blog to read crap!
@Andrew I think I’m really transparent highlighting every post where a link provides any benefit to me, offering an argument for whatever recommendation I make, and leaving the comments open for people to disagree with me. I do not ever hide that I receive referral credit for certain cards, and I highlight MANY cards that provide me no such benefit. So I guess I’m not sure what standards you’ve recommend against which you consider me to be ‘unethical’.
Surely @Marcus Smisek is trolling me to make the point of this post.
I think (like anyone cares 🙂 that you do a good job. I think if you want an interesting comments section you should let it run on it’s own until it crosses over “your” line. It’s your blog so why not. For example if you strike up a conversation with someone at say a bar and they start telling you how they hate you or are vulgar, etc. you can just walk away. With comments you can just ban them or delete them I assume.
Many times there’s great information provided in the comments, but it can be missed when there’s so much crap to read through. I’m a fan of moderation and keeping things on-track. Besides, it’s your blog, not theirs!
Gary, considering your extremely light touch in terms of moderation, I support your decision. I’m all for diversity of opinion–that’s why I read the comments in the first place–but if some of those comments get so far out of bounds, it makes the whole section unreadable and then no one benefits.
what about bloggers’ own senseless full-page vent? I remember back when the election was over, a few “young” bloggers of BA cannot hold themselves and had to vent/lament the outcome, like “What I Told My Six Year Old Daughter”, the only thing remotely related to travel is “Our family actually could move to Canada”. my point is everybody can be ticked by certain things & write a whole page or a few sentences.
Yawn
While it is your blog and you can do what you want, there are plenty of other places on the internet to read rants, nonsense and outrageous posts, so you don’t need to create space for such things. Maybe just limit posts to relevant and civil discourse. You might start a trend!.As for the First Amendment, it only restricts actions of the federal government, and by virtue of the 14th Amendment, to state and local governments. You are legally free to censor as you see fit.
“Which is a long way of saying…..”
That’s a much bigger problem with the pleasantness of your site than unruly comments.
You should find shorter ways to say things.
Very much support this decision Gary. Blogs are ruined by trolls and there’s no place for ’em.
Of course, the worst trolls aren’t hemmed in by blocking.
I like your light touch. Easy enough to skip over useless or silly (DCS) posts. Your blog, do what you want, but I’m all for the extreme end of openness. But, don’t forget to add misandry to your list of banned comments. If you have misogyny you ought to have misandry, right? 🙂
@marcus – you forget that 1st Amendment only has to do with government restricting speech, not private parties doing that. If that were the case then anyone with a beef with Disney could stand next to the Walt and Mickey statue and spout off whatever he/she wanted. The 1st Amendment, however, protects that person’s ability to stand on the publicly owned sidewalk along Harbor Blvd and to say whatever he/she wants. There’s a distinct difference.
Just eliminate the comments section altogether. There’s hardly any good information and ultimately all it does is give trolls like Marcus Smisek and Andrew a platform for spreading their cretinism.
We have the benefit of reading your headlines before clicking on your post and thus we can decide whether or not to read what you write. With the comments section on the other hand, one has to browse through the whole section in search of some useful info but almost inevitably will stumble onto some asinine comment that you can’t “unread” later. Just do away with it altogether, no big loss.
Trolls do generally need to be persuaded to go elsewhere.
It’s hard not to think of someone who posts slurs on “Barry” as a fat, deranged Trump bully like we saw shoving a young black student on her own campus between a circle of these ugly morbidly obese hatefaces. Decent America would have intervened to protect the girl and shamed these grotesque bullies back into their basements. Most surely have daughters, but still bullied this man through to the Presidency knowing he was a serial molester with a dozen women complaining along with thousands of veterans who he’d stolen their life savings and settled their lawsuit the day after the election.
So there are some of us in defense of decent America who feel the need to smack these fat bullies down wherever they raise their canned ham heads. We know who you are. You are not America of the future, but the last gasp of a dying lynch mob.
@marcus – not to mention that all this banned person needs to do is to use a different email address and name and comment again.
Frequently what is clear to one is not clear to another…
Keep the relevant contributors-both positive and negative. There are great ideas exchanged.
Dump the ones who just attack you personally for no other reason than to attack (ie all the comments about credit cards when the subject has nothing to do with credit cards). It’s not informational to the reader you’re looking at keeping or attracting.
Would love to see more…especially when they post outright lies trying to puff up “their” respective program, unsupported by any links or documentation
Gary, comment sections are going to be the downfall of our society, revealing all the ugliest sides of human nature. There’s too much negativity in the world, I’m down for no comments or only useful ones, and it’s your blog so whatever you choose to do is acceptable.
Good plan until the time comes you come face to face with someone you banned and they are a nut case.
I truly think it is your prerogative to ban or remove comments as it is your blog. If this however is viewed as censorship (especially if it is done to those questioning you) then I believe people will catch on soon and will likely move on. I do agree with others that I sometimes scratch my head at the continually promoting of credit cards that clearly are only being promoted due to the referral bonuses the bloggers are getting…sometimes this is out of control and it seem that some of the advise given is not the full truth or just for the sake of promoting the card. Would I potentially comment on a post like that? Yes, but I would not post something that would even consider getting me banned. I also agree that it seems like most of the information provided is just a regurgitation of the information that was already reported on…just look at the landing page of the Boarding Area and count how many posts on that page or on the exact same topic. This is annoying but I understand it as some people only go to one or two sources so everyone feels they need to report on it.
I honestly believe this is one of the best blogs anywhere (one of the few I try to read every day) and appreciate that you have not tolerated my sometimes caustic commentary. However my wife has requested that you ban me because she feels I spend too much time on the internet.
Last week I discovered that I have been banned from commenting by Mother Jones for reasons unexplained, though I suspect they simply do not want to hear dissenting opinions. Apparently they haven’t learned their lessons from the recent election. This is the only site that blocks me.
I encourage you to ban and/or delete comments as you see fit. I’ll still read the blog if you don’t …will just quit reading comments.
A blog is the cyber equivalent of a 19th century salon. you need to be hospitable and engaging, but, at the end of the day, this is your “house,” and you have the right to ask someone to leave.
I think there is a way to disagree even emphatically without being offensive or obnoxious. I would apply a rule of civil discourse: don’t kick someone out because you hate what they say, but feel free to kick someone out because you hate how they say it.
all in all, you are doing a great job and providing a terrific resource for savvy travelers and those wanting to learn more about travel. thanks for everything you do day in and day out! happy new year , Gary!
It’s your blog, and as you are the moderator you should ban and remove as you see fit.
When I saw this today I was reminded not everyone is safe to fly:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4073560/Delta-flight-diverted-couple-fights-crew-mid-air.html
As a corollary, not everyone is safe to be commenting on blog posts. So here’s to your blog’s no-fly list.
I thought it was funny that I was posting above on the fact that bloggers regurgitate posts and then when I refreshed your main page I see a post you must have been posting as I was typing recapping the AA changes which Lucky had just posted. 🙂
It’s your blog and as a regular reader I have total faith in your judgement. People can be over the top nasty when they hide behind a keyboard. People on Ben’s blog have been particularly awful. Just please don’t eliminate the comments section, as others often suggest, though. It’s a valid tool for people comparing notes on the topics, deals, and ideas you post, especially when you reply to us!
I get sooo much out of the comments on your blog (in comparison to news and even health blogs where I never read the comments because of the biased, ignorant and hate filled comments.
I WANT YOU you moderate the comments enough to keep them from denigrating to what they are on the majority of the internet.
I also don’t understand the people who read your blog and then proceed to rag on you for stupid reasons. I’m constantly thinking “then why do you read it?” If someone believes your post is biased, they should thoughtfully explain why, not just throw out a turd. I subscribe to the adage “The price of criticism is a better idea.”
I approve of your policy but feel it absolutely necessary to have added “homophobic” content
I agree with your decision! I also enjoy comments from others, but, they do not need to be obscene or vulgar. I do not appreciate those type of comments.
Civil disagreement is one thing. Slander and vicious attacks are quite another. Allowing the latter to pollute the comment section of your blog does nothing except drive readers away. So I for one have absolutely no problem with your decision to ban persistently uncivil commenters.